EmiratesLover
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A Jew Seeking Justice

Sat Mar 23, 2002 7:15 pm

A Jew Seeking Justice
by Jennifer Balkan

As a Jewish American, I feel it is finally my responsibility to opine on behalf of my Palestinian sisters and brothers:
Imagine if a group of strangers marched into your home and told you that you couldn't live there anymore. This is the home that your parents inhabited; your grandparents bequeathed to them. These strangers told you that thousands of years ago, their ancestors had populated this area, albeit for a short while. Now they have come to take what's rightfully yours and call it their own. When you don't voluntarily leave, they threaten you with violence. Fearing imminent danger, you take your children and flee. These people pay you a pittance of the value of your land without your consent and label you an 'absentee landlord'. When you return to reclaim your home, your land, the strangers argue that because you separated yourself from your belongings, they are no longer yours. Because they have attained the title to your home and land, you no longer have the right of possession.

This is the story of Israel - a stolen land taken from the Palestinians. The Zionist movement was founded on the principle that the Jews deserved a land; a land that they could call their State; their home but they would only be able to identify themselves as a wholly Jewish state at the expense of uprooting an existent civilization, the indigenous Arab population.

The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the existence of a kingdom that reigned for only 414 years (Beatty, I: Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.) The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods of ancient Palestine. There exists the dangerous misconception that opposition to Jewish occupation stems from anti-Semitism. Tensions between Arabs and Jews began after Zionist settlers arrived in the 1880s and had bought land from absentee Arab owners. This led to the dispossession of land that had been cultivated by peasants. In effect, the Zionists were colonizing Arab land.

The Zionists probably could not have been so successful in their acquisitions if it weren't for strong support from the British and later the Americans. The Balfour Declaration was instituted in November 1917 by the British Government to secure a Jewish Homeland in Palestine. It is easy to be skeptical of such a declaration as it was fashioned by a European power; about a non-European territory; and completely discounted the presence and desires of the indigenous majority residents of the territory.

When Israel was declared a state in 1948, it owned a bit more than six percent of the land of Palestine. The UN charter envisages a peoples' right to self-determination based upon the democratic requirement of consent for the majority of the people - the Palestine Arabs had composed a 2/3 majority at that point it time. Thus, the UN Partition of Palestine in 1947 violated its own law.

Since the inception of a codependency between Israel and the U.S., the U.S. media has done everything in its power to taint the struggle of the Palestinians. President Truman stated in 1947 "I am sorry gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism. I do not have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents" (Pres. Harry Truman, quoted in Anti Zionism, ed. By Teikener, Abed-Rabbo & Mezvinsky).

Arabs have only responded to an unlawful, undeserved expropriation of their land. They became refugees in their own villages. Over 750,000 Palestinians became refugees on their own land during the winter of 1947. But Israel was not satisfied with its allocation. In violation of international law, Israel seized over 52 percent of the land in the West Bank and 30 percent of the Gaza Strip for military use or for settlement by Jewish civilians.

Israel has an historical record of invading surrounding countries, and currently occupies Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian territory against international law. It has been Zionist policy to kill anywhere from 50 to 100 Arabs for every Jewish fatality. But the U.S. media have never criticized Israel of inciting the ensuing Islamic terror. Instead, Israeli soldiers who participate in cruel acts of torture are labeled "security forces" whereas Palestinians are all perceived as terrorists.

Currently, violence in the Middle East is as high as it has ever been. Israeli deaths are reported to us whereas Palestinian losses are dehumanized and go faceless in our news.

Our unconditional support of Israel and its practices portray us as unsympathetic to a robbed people.

Fundamentalist Halacha, or Jewish law, is what is propagating violence - it condones murder in the pursuit of Zionist expansion. Much like other sects of religious fundamentalism, it is dangerous and should be feared and mistrusted.

We can no longer sit idly and watch an indigenous population become dispossessed. It has taken a couple hundred years for Americans to look at our ancestors with disdain - those who decimated the original inhabitants of our land - the once thriving American Indians. We still feel guilt for what our forefathers stole. Will disclosure of facts and revision of our textbooks in the secular classroom and in the synagogue someday reveal the truth about Israel? And will it be too late then?

Jennifer Balkan lives in Austin, TX

 
McRingRing
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sat Mar 23, 2002 8:09 pm

Blah, blah, blah... we all know there are 2 sides to the story.  Sleepy
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Hepkat
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sat Mar 23, 2002 9:39 pm

"we all know there are 2 sides to the story"

And this is the side most often not told. And even when it is, there are those such as yourself that dismiss it with a "blah, blah, blah", preferring to subscribe to an ideology instead of facing the truth.

I've noticed on these forums that there exists a blindness, a political agenda, a type of laziness that causes us to swallow whatever news "they" dangle before us. And all challenges to the status-quo result in cries of anti-semiticism and hatred.

It's a sad day indeed when feebleness of mind and political correctness is allowed to triumph over the truth.
 
go canada!
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sat Mar 23, 2002 10:54 pm

as for the whole rubbish spouted about israel and the palestinians,i suggest you read "fabricating israeli history" the new historians by Efraim Karsh.

many on airliners and others have subjected israeli history to an assault, trying to expose what is claimed to be 'the distorted Zionist narrative' of Israeli history and the arab-israeli conflict. They have cast israel as the regional villan, bearing sole responsibility for the cycle of violence in the middle east since 1948. for some, zionism is an archaic remnant of western colonialism, eventually destined to wither away. for others it is an exploitative and aggressive movement which has brought about the Palestinian tragedy and has perpetuated the conflict with Israel's Arab neighbours.

Fabricating israeli history takes issue with this, through careful examination of the documentation that revionists used as well as sources that the author believes they have either ignored or failed to trace, this book propounds that the historical facts tell a completely different story from the one they propagate.

then of course, i bet the pro-arabs wont read it.

PS- for the last last time, the palestinians and the arabs rejected the notion of a palestinian state in 1948 and the us-led(interesting for the america bashers) un statement was abstained by syria...

why would that be i wonder?
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sat Mar 23, 2002 10:59 pm

"Israel has an historical record of invading surrounding countries, and currently occupies Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian territory against international law. "

errrrrrrrrm more like the arabs have a habit of invading israel....and international law? hmmmmmmmmmm

The same international law that has backed a palestinian state only for syria to reject it..of course syria a 'pro-palesitinian' country wouldnt want to back a palestinian state because it might not get extra land would it?

Jen blaklan isnt writing for the wondeful palestinian history journal is she?
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Skyway1
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sat Mar 23, 2002 11:06 pm

We can no longer sit idly and watch an indigenous population become dispossessed

Can we sit by idly and watch the Palestinians blow everything up, including themselves(which is getting them nowhere)?

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
Hepkat
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sat Mar 23, 2002 11:15 pm

Go Canada, what is this fabrication of Jewish history that you keep talking about? The Zionists did something that you're not proud of, and you relegate it to fabrication? I supposet the U.S. Library of Congress, with its concise study of each country's history, "fabricated" Jewish history when it described it damning details how the Jews stole Palestinian lands in the name of Zionism, and later denied Arabs rights:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+il0032)

Could it be that the U.S., Israel's strongest ally, fabricated Jewish history? Or perhaps is it more a case of certain people with an agenda not willing to accept the truth of what happened? Which is more plausible?
 
Guest

RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:03 am

You can't argue with the U.S. Library of congress....
 
McRingRing
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:21 am

And this is the side most often not told. And even when it is, there are those such as yourself that dismiss it with a "blah, blah, blah", preferring to subscribe to an ideology instead of facing the truth.



we've heard it all before. from you and from her.
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yyz717
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:28 am

Israel exists. It is not going away. Nor should it.

Looking at the legitimacy of Israel is a non-starter. The key issue is how can the current fighting stop.....this can only happen with some kind of mutually agreeable political compromise....no doubt involving Palestinian statehood in some form. Both sides with have to give a little.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
radarbeam
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:38 am

There has always been bullies in the world, and there will always be.
 
TWAL1011
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 1:51 am

So...What's the solution?
 
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yyz717
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:03 am

How about a democratic Palestinian leader to start? Instead of Arafat (a dictator).

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
TWAL1011
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:17 am

That is a good start. I like it. So how is Arafat to be removed and who's gonna do it?
 
Hepkat
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:22 am

Yyz717, perhaps this is one of the best suggestions I've heard to date. I really think the reason Israel has made such headway is precisely because they chose democracy. Had the Palestinians done the same, they probably would have more weight during negotiations. That being said, it still does not undo the shameful history of Zionism.

Mcringring, don't you think it's time you grow up? Or at the very least, refute my arguments with facts and figures. Juvenile gestures will only diminish your credibility.
 
roguetrader
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:33 am

Israel exists... Looking at the legitimacy of Israel is a non-starter

Questioning the legitimacy of any government is incumbent to anyone trying to determine the reason why conflict among peoples or nations exist.

People who have an agenda to hide the illegitimacy of Israel will not try to offer evidence as to why Israel is legitimate (because this evidence is thin), rather they will try to tell you that you have no right to even ask the question.

Throughout history, illegitimate states/governments have been brought down (USSR, Mussolini, E. Germany, Philippines under Marcos) precisely because people HAVE questioned the governments legitimacy. Thinking people even have an obligation to do so.

I can imagine the great Soviet leaders telling their own people and the rest of the world, "the USSR exists. This is a non-issue. Deal with it."

I suggest a full and complete review of both the Israelli and Palastinian case in the forum of public opinion and eventually a peace that will satisfy everyone in the ME.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:22 am

yes and the palestinians dont want peace thats why they are keeping up with the bombings by arafats own paryt will sirael wants to attend the arab league summit to present a peace plan.

and i have read the us congress reports, what i think is funny is that you champion part of the us goverment yet complain that the usa fabricated history?

are you saying that your dear old library lied?

and why dont you read the book i suggested and come back in a weeks time?

ps- the fabrication of history involves the insitance and denyial that it is israels land and the insitance that zionism was an evil force by distorting the evidence.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:32 am

its involves stating that the arab-israel conflict is all israelsfault for daring to exist in the first place, thats part of the bariaction of jewish history ..

and i have to agree with yuo,, fabrication of history by a people with an agenda..oh yes...thats the pro-palestinians with their lovely revionist history and those who state israel shouldnt exist?

are in you the camp that accepts israel has a legitmate right to exist alognisde an independent palestinian state, independent of both israel and arab countries with jerusalem as a internationally administered area or are you in favour of a palestinian state with full israeli evacuation(including israeli arabs) that is then absorb into trans-jordan?

are you in favour of peace on both sides or israel doing all the work will arafat allows suicide bombers to continue?

do you think that the leaders of hamas, hezzbollah, jihad and all their friends should be rounded up and stoned in jerusalem after being prosectuted for crimes against humanity?

do you agree that the palestinians ended up with sharon because they couldnt accept a barak peace deal?

do you accept that the majority of palestinians do not want peace?


to be nice to you hepkat, you old fuddy-duddy ill respond to you in one weeks time as it will make painful reading to read a book that isnt anti-jewish.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
go canada!
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:35 am

rouge,

the only way some arabs will accept peace is if another 6million jews die in this century.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
roguetrader
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 7:24 am

Go Canada!,

you said,
the only way some arabs will accept peace is if another 6million jews die in this century.

I'm sure there are a few Arabs who have the radical views you suggest.

But, I just don't believe that most Muslims ( as most Arab's seem to be) want anyone dead. I base this on what Muslims I know have told me about their religion. Maybe I just know the nice Muslims?

Your statement is just another attempt to portray a whole group (the Arabs) and the religion they are linked to (Islam) as modern day Nazis who just want to eliminate the Jews.

Its in Israel's interest to portray this as a conflict of religions, instead of the simple real estate dispute this is.

They don't care that Israel is primarily Jewish, its irrelevant. They just want their land back.

kind regards,

RogueTrader

PS-some of your above posts make it difficult (for me at least) to determine who you're addressing remarks to. Also, why can't you use capitalization?



 
Guest

RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 7:48 am

Its in Israel's interest to portray this as a conflict of religions, instead of the simple real estate dispute this is.

They don't care that Israel is primarily Jewish, its irrelevant. They just want their land back.



First, I don't understand in what it is "in Israel's interest to portray this as a conflict of religions", quite the contrary...

Second, you should just have a look on the conflict to understand it is BOTH a political and a religious one; Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad...all these terrorist groups are opposed to the very idea of a Jewish independant State on what they consider "sacred Islamic soil". The mufti of Jerusalem declared for instance last summer to a Swiss newspaper that "there's not a single stone in Jerusalem in relation with the Jews".

The ME conflict has a deep religious aspect.

 
jessman
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:27 am

Rogue, I realize this is long, please hear me out, then tear me apart afterward.
simple real estate dispute
hahaha. That's hilarious. I'll believe that when they start giving legitimate reasons why they should have the land. If you say "Because my ancestors had it" is not enough for the Jews, then it is not enough for the Arabs. Besides, the jews did pay for the land in good faith during the early days of zionism. Finally, military conquest has always been a legitimate claim to land. Haven't you ever heard the phrase "To the victors go the spoils."?
The Israelis are holding strategic territory on the West Bank and Gaza Strip. To give it up would put them at a disadvantage when the arabs launch a military attack.
Also 1.)Those Arabs that are killing the Jews are claiming that it is in the name of Allah, and they have a relatively large number of religious leaders that agree with them. I haven't heard any Jew say they're killing Arabs in the name of God, and if they do, their leaders deny it. Christians have been known to practice that in the past, but since the laity has been allowed to read the scripture they realize that there is no place in the new testament that even remotely advocates violence as a legitimate means to promote Christianity, in fact they were to endure persecution, and not fight back, because Christ did not fight back.
Now Islam, on the other hand, by it's own admission, no matter how they want to sugar coat it, has the idea of Jihad, or holy war, to promote their religion. That is why there were the Moors, and the Ottomans, and other Islamic empires that turned the area under their control into Theocracies. I.E. Conversion by force. This was meant to convert the world.
Jews, also, were commanded by God to drive out the peoples in this small area of land now called Palestine. They were not there to convert people, but to destroy them or put them elsewhere. This was also not a global thing, it had very specific boundaries.
anyway my real point is that this is, really, a spiritual thing. It will not stop until one side is proven wrong beyond a reasonable doubt, or is destroyed completely.
Finally, the USSR did exist at that time. One had to deal with it because no one could destroy it. Finally it fell from within. The other governments you mentioned either fell from within, or if they were taken over by force it did not change the people living in the area. The Arabs want the Jews out. Israel could cease to exist as a soverign country, but if the Jews remained the Palestinians would not be satasfied. The worst part, there is no place in the world to move the Jews that they would be welcomed with open arms, because they want a community of their own. Who would give them the land or the opportunity for that. Even if the UN told them to give up the land of Israel they would say NO! After saying No they would fight whomever tried to take their land from them. In their eyes it is their land. No where else is their land. They would conquer and win, or be utterly destroyed trying. The problem I have with your argument is that you say it is anti-semetic, you just want the Palestinians to have their land. Unfortunately the only way to accomplish that is to destroy the Jews. So in practice, your arguments are extremely anti-semetic.
 
roguetrader
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 9:11 am

First, I don't understand in what it is "in Israel's interest to portray this as a conflict of religions"

Because Israel's guarantor, the USA, was built in part on religious freedom and detests those who can't tolerate all religions. On the other hand, where real estate disputes are concerned, the USA is more likely to weigh both sides of the dispute equally.

By portraying this as a war between the 'intolerant Arabs' and the ultra tolerant, peace-loving, almost American Israelis, Israel gets sympathetic support in the media and in the public.

Jessman, your post is too long for me to answer efficiently. If you want me to reply to a specific point or answer a question, I will.

Really, my main objective here is to point out that neither the Palastinians nor the Israelis have a perfect 100% claim to the land now called 'Israel.' I think the Palastinians have a stronger case that the land should be theirs, but at the same time their methods of protest are unacceptable.

I say its a simple real estate dispute. Some say its based on religion. Either way, I don't see why the US or the EU or the UN, or anyone else should take sides. I am tempted to say: if they can't ever come to an agreement, just let them fight it out and whoever's left standing wins....what would be wrong with that, unless of course you already have a favorite side?

regards,

RogueTrader
 
jessman
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 9:15 am

I do say, let them duke it out. Last man standing wins. Woo Hooo Smile
Now that's the american way.
 
LY744
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Sun Mar 24, 2002 9:57 am

"Israel has an historical record of invading surrounding countries, and currently occupies Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian territory against international law."

Israel left southern Lebanon about two years ago. The only reason it took over in the first place was to create a buffer zone between it and the Syrian, and later Iranian backed terrorists who used that area to carry out terrorist attacks and/or fire mortars and artillery rockets on northern Israeli towns. Their "achievements" included taking over an elementary school full of children. This has been going on for over a decade before IL finally took action. This is basically identical to the circumstances under which the West Bank was taken over by IL in 1967, only they waited two decades before taking things into their own hands in that case.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:39 am

Really, my main objective here is to point out that neither the Palastinians nor the Israelis have a perfect 100% claim to the land now called 'Israel.' I think the Palastinians have a stronger case that the land should be theirs, but at the same time their methods of protest are unacceptable.

Then the only solution would be TO SHARE this piece of land...!

Do you have the slightest idea of how small Israel is? From the Golan heights you can see up to Jerusalem; from Haifa you can see 3/4 of the distance to Tel Aviv, it is very small! It is so small that it begins to look like one huge city, from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv to Haifa to Ashdod. I flew once from Haifa, in the north, to Eilat, the most southern spot, with a stopover at Jerusalem airport; as soon as we took off Haifa, we began to descend on Jerusalem...it's really a small piece of land.
The former Leftist gvt was ready to create a Palestinian State on most of the 1967 territories (98%), and to share Jerusalem, and even to "trade" some land. More cannot be done, unless you dismantle the State of Israel. Some on these forums wouldn't mind doing so, and seem even astonished that the Israelis wouldn't quietly accept to be dismantled or "removed" or taken to some other place on earth...But that's not a solution, unless a "final solution" is considered to be fair one for Israel.
 
Marco
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RE: A Jew Seeking Justice

Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:28 pm

I'm sure there are a few Arabs who have the radical views you suggest.

I live in a preominately Muslim country (supposedly a relatively free one) and I never hear or see some of the things you people see on the other side of the globe. No, they are not a few, ninety percent of Arabs if not more want all jews out of palestine dead or alive, they don't care. In fact the word Israel is illegal in the UAE, pathetic if you ask me.

But, I just don't believe that most Muslims ( as most Arab's seem to be) want anyone dead. I base this on what Muslims I know have told me about their religion. Maybe I just know the nice Muslims?

I'll leave my thoughts out on this matter, I don't want to turn this into a flame war  Insane
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