Guest

Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 3:03 am

That's the latest news from the ME:

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has called US Vice President Dick Cheney to tell him he'd like to attend the Arab League summit in Beirut...!

It's not a joke:
HAARETZ - Last update - 19:38 23/03/2002

Report: PM wants to attend Arab summit; PA: Arafat will go

By Daniel Sobelman, Ha'aretz Correspondent, Ha'aretz Service and agencies

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, speaking in an interview to The Washington Post published Saturday, said he is interested in attending the Arab League Summit in Beirut later on this week.

According to the paper, Sharon has asked the United States to intervene in his favor. The prime minister told the paper that he intends to present the Arab leaders with his own peace plan, which includes the implementation of the Tenet and Mitchell plans as well as a long-term interim agreement during which discussions on final borders will take place.





He's getting old...
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 3:18 am

He's getting old...

Why's that? Because he seems to be willing to talk again? Maybe he has finally realised (let's hope so) that the way he's currently dealing with things isn't exactly *helpful* in achieving peace, so he might try something different.
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 4:35 am

Yeah, do you really think the way the Arabs are dealing with things is exactly helpful...?

- To blow up restaurants, discos and busses doesn't seem to me to be exactly helpful;

- To call on radio and TV the murderers suicide bombers "holy martyrs" and the killing of children, teens and families "wonderful acts of resistance" is not exactly helpful;

- To smuggle dozens of tons of terror weapons and explosives is not exactly helpful for achieving peace (or at least a cease-fire...);

- To write so-called "scientific" articles in a Government daily "explaining" how Jews are making cookies with non-Jewish children's blood is perhaps also notexactly helpful.



***


BTW, right now the Jerusalem police are in extreme high alert because of intelligence warnings of an imminent attack; life is becoming increasingly impossible in Israel, but the PM has great ideas of going to a summit with Israel's worst and openly declared ennemies (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Irak, Syria...)
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 4:49 am

Yeah, do you really think the way the Arabs are dealing with things is exactly helpful...?

Where did I say that? But it does not take a rocket-scientist to see that the way Sharon has been dealing with the Palestinians hasn't exactly improved things over the last few months, now has it?

Look, I don't have the magic key to solving this problem, no-one has. But there's one thing that I do know: as long as neither party is willing to stop the violence, and sit down and talk to the other again, things are not going to get better. They're simply not. And since you and I both know terrorist organisations like Hamas aren't going to be the first ones to stop this madness, the only realistic thing to do is for israel to take the first step. I just hope that that is what Sharon intends to do with this initiative...
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 5:01 am

It's Arafat's own organization which carried out most of the last terror attacks, including the last terror bombing in Jerusalem when a young couple was killed.




"I don't have the magic key to solving this problem, no-one has"
- 200% agree
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 5:23 am

Great idea to send an Israeli representative, but don't send Sharon. Not to Beirut, above all!!! Send Peres or someone who has a (comparatively) better image in the Arab world.

Aaron G.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 5:25 am

Why the negative approach, Toda? IMHO, it can't hurt, and will do a lot of good to the way Israel is viewed in the west. As we know, IL's PR has been terrible so far. I don't think it's a sign of weakness or giving in to terror, he's not making any deals, just going to hang out with a bunch of rich oil tycoons, and the leaders of the poorer Arab countries (Syria/Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt etc.). Besides, we don't know what the members of the Arab League will say about that. One thing is for sure, security is going to be a bloody nightmare! Unlike the last time Sharon went to Hezbollah-country, he's not going to have several infantry/armor brigades behind him!  Smile

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:24 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 5:30 am

He's getting old...

No he's getting intelligent. Toda you are really an extremist you know.
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 5:45 am

So I guess the truth is finally shown, Toda is more interested in HIS agenda, which includes the portrayal of Arabs in as negative a light as possible and keeping a (useless) extremist position, more than a solution to the ME conflict.

I for one applaud the willingness of leaders like Sharon and Prince Saudi to reach out accross enemy lines to find a peace plan that's acceptable to both sides. It might sound impossible, sure, but at this time drastic measures are needed. We can all do without the ultra-extremists who really only want to see the violence continue in order to use it as an excuse for the further oppression of the Palestinians and the further confiscation of Palestinian territory.

Give the guy some credit, or at least come up with peace solutions of your own. But don't just sit there spitting venom at every opportunity you get.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:15 am

Send Sharon, but the not all the arabs will accept his deal nor will they accept any saudi deal that gives israel peace and security.

the arabs only are interested in the palestinian cause in order to get land from israel, they arent that bothered in the palestiniansthemselves who ahev always been treated as 2nd-class arabs thats why the arab member of the security council didnt vote for the declaration that the palestinians have the right to their own state.

but its a good idea, sharon can present the Tenet and Mitchell plans and move towards a permanent solution, he will spilt the arabs on this issue and it will help the usa and the uk in their forming of a alliance against iraq as the moderate arab states cant turn around and complain about israel when its attempting to make peace and isnt heavily retailating after more palestinian suicide bombers.

ps-hepkat-you dont like being inferred to as a mouthpiece of terror so what gives you the right to cause toda an extermist?
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 6:41 am

yes yes yes...I'm SURE Sharon will be heartfullz welcomed to Beirut...
The Saudis have already rejected any kind of encounter before a total Israeli withdrawal;
The Syrians refuse to use the word "normalization" in the Saudi plan;
The former Iranian president (who is yet an important figure in his country) explained just a few weeks ago that a nuclear bomb would be THE best solution for the Zionist problem;
A governmental daily newspaper in Saudi Arabia published recently an article explaining that the Jews are mking pastries with non-Jewish teenagers' blood;
Arafat tries by every means to smuggle huge quantities of terror weapons and explosives, with the help of Iran;

But I'm really sure that all these moderate people will be delighted to welcome the extremist and bloody Sharon.







BTW, I'm rather a realist than an "extremist"...but if it gives you satisfaction to call me an extremist, just do it...
In 1993 when the discussions with the PLO were made public, and it was announced that Arafat would be allowed into Gaza and the West Bank, I was convinced the rightists in Israel were correct in their predictions...they said that in a few year there would be a Fatahland situation at the doors of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, making life impossible in Israel... According to Hepkat's decision I was an "extremist" already at that time...but these extremits proved sadly to be too right in their predictions...





Some here will say that with this proposition, Sharon will improve his image, and the Arab League's refusal will put the Arab world in a bad position...Just have a look into Camp David and Taba 2000, or into the Karine-A affair...to see it won't be the case
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 7:28 am

Toda you gotta learn to grow up man. Your extreme and disgusting views don't impress anyone here, except maybe your extremist buddy, N400QX. Do you really extact pleasure from starting these flamewars? Don't play dumb and say that wasn't your "intention..."

I once read this hilarious quote, and I think it applies here beautifully.

"I'm TRYING to see your point of view, but I can't get my head that far up my...."

Notice to any moderators: I didn't use any harsh language, it was a quote and only a quote

-FSPilot747
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 7:38 am

you should once explain what my supposed "extreme and disgusting views" are...




Is it "disgusting and extreme", for instance, to be digusted by the great Saudi newspaper article accusing Jews of filling their religious pastries with non-Jewish teens' blood?

Or is it "extreme" to denounce such a terrible writing in a governmental newspaper?













But perhaps, only perhaps, it is precisely "disgusting and extreme" to write such a "scientifical" article...
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:07 am

Toda, instead of bitching, why don't you offer us your idea of how to solve the problems, or at least, a way to start? Because, really, all I see you do on these forums is spew hatred towards the Palestinians at every single opportunity you get, failing to see the broader picture, which is that in a conflict as complicated as this, neither party is innocent.

I repeat once again: what exactly is so wrong with Sharon seemingly reaching out and making an effort to end the conflict? Are you afraid it's not going to work? Well, you may be right. But then again, it won't hurt to try, will it? If he doesn't try, there's only ONE alternative: more violence, more death, more blood of innocent people. On BOTH sides. Unless you're really blind, you know it, I know it, and so does everybody else. I repeat: It's the ONLY ALTERNATIVE. So unless you have something constructive to say, I suggest you keep your extremist BS to yourself.
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:21 am

To you the same Scorpio: what is my "extremist BS" please?!

With Arafat there will FOR SURE be no way to solve any problem.
Here's an article from Sunday's Haaretz, the Israeli strongly leftist newspaper...asking some interesting questions:

"
Sunday, March 24, 2002 Nisan 11, 5762 Israel Time: 01:14 (GMT+2)
Don't blow it, Yasser
By Yoel Marcus
Passover is around the corner, and a Hanukkah miracle has just dropped on Arafat's head. At the peak of the military conflict with Israel, with the two peoples reaching new heights of depression, Sharon set up a ladder that can de-escalate the mutual slaughter. He gave up the demand for seven days of quiet, and proposed a cease-fire so that the Tenet plan could get started right away.

If I were Arafat, I'd grab Sharon's offer with both hands and both feet. I'd say to myself that it could be a gimmick, but behind it is American pressure that could, sooner or later, fall on me like a sledgehammer, wielded by the gang that hasn't forgotten my backing of Saddam in the Gulf War. So better that I hitch a ride on the wagon of the "good guys" and save myself a headache.

Arafat has gone from sitting under house arrest in Ramallah to having no less a personage than the vice president of the United States being prepared to visit him. In return for agreeing to a cease-fire, Arafat has killed five birds with one stone: He has involved the American presidency in the conflict. He has turned America into the judge and final decision-maker on every issue. He has saved himself from being labeled a terrorist and transformed himself into a critical link in mobilizing support for the war on Iraq. He has made it possible for himself to attend the summit in Beirut, with the Americans guaranteeing his return to Israel. And for the whole lot, all he has to pay right now is lip service. The painful actions - arrests, collection of weapons, cutting down the size of his army, destroying terrorist infrastructure - will wait until his return.

Arafat is facing a tough test of leadership. It won't be easy when it comes to showing that he is in control, that he has the will and capacity to carry out his word. "What have you achieved?" his fighters will say. "Why are we laying down our guns?"

He could take the advice given to U.S. President Lyndon Johnson during the Vietnam War: Say you won and get out. Arafat could say to his people: We won. We forced Sharon to blink first and ask for a cease-fire. We forced him to withdraw Israel Defense Forces troops from Palestinian Authority territory. We won support for a state from Bush, and finally squeezed a vote in favor of the establishment of a state from the UN Security Council. Our blood has not been spilled in vain. We beat Goliath.

Arafat should be thanking Sharon right now.

In a way, Abba Eban's quip about the Palestinians never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity also applies to us. Looking back, Israel has been no slouch in the missed-opportunity department, from Golda's insistence that there is no such thing as a Palestinian nation, to getting ourselves in an irreversible fix by allowing settlements to be established in places in the territories that have no importance whatsoever for Israeli security.

But when we count up the mistakes, missed opportunities, stupidity and maliciousness, the scales tip in favor of the Palestinians, especially since the 1993 Oslo Accords, when they were so close to establishing their state. The moving ceremony on the White House lawn, the "peace of the brave," Arafat's commitment to laying down the sword - all of it collapsed the moment Arafat returned to Gaza and launched into impassioned speeches, calling upon his people to liberate Palestine by blood and fire. He encouraged them to spill the blood of innocent Israeli citizens in suicide bombings, and instead of building a state, caused so much harm to his people that no enemy could ever compete with him.

What logical explanation could there be for the spate of terrorist attacks that began within a year of that ceremony, when Yitzhak Rabin was yet alive? Why should women and children have been killed in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem during the days of Peres, a man of peace and a friend of Arafat? Why did a wave of violence leading to hundreds of dead on both sides begin just as Barak and Clinton proposed a plan in which Israel would return 97 percent of the territories? Why would Arafat want to topple Peres and bring Bibi to power? Why would he want to topple Barak and bring Sharon to power, sending all the peaceniks scurrying to the right?

And what interest could he now have in bringing back Netanyahu
, who told Time magazine this week that he plans to reoccupy the entire West Bank, exile Arafat and dismantle all his forces? Most of the Israeli public does not believe in a military solution and is prepared to make concessions for peace. Yet again, Arafat is being given a chance to prove that he is capable of stopping terror and becoming a relevant leader and partner in dialogue. Don't blow it again, Yasser."
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 8:50 am

Scorpio: "what exactly is so wrong with Sharon seemingly reaching out and making an effort to end the conflict? Are you afraid it's not going to work?"

Actually, scorpio, I think he's afraid it WILL work. It seems as though Toda doesn't care about peace. Seems his real goal is to defame the Palestinians and the Arabs. He has already shown his hate. Not only him, but N400QX, Boeing in pdx, and some others I can't recall at the moment.

Toda, why don't you look back on your previous posts in various ME threads, and maybe you'll see for yourself what is so "extreme" and "hateful" about your views.

-FSPilot747
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 9:09 am

Toda, your 'extremist BS' is pretty much everything you ever write on these forums. You are extremely one-sided, blaming everything on one and the same party in this conflict. You fail to see that the other side, too, has made mistakes, and preach hatred toward the Palestinians, for the atrocities some of them, an extremist minority, have done. You then conveniently turn a blind eye on the crimes committed by the Israelis toward the Palestinians.

Oh, and you still haven't offered an alternative. I'm waiting.
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 9:27 am

No no Hepkat, I won't lose my time doing this... YOU are formulating the accusations, YOU have to prove them in one way or another; it's not my problem...

The alternative, Scorpio? Unlike some others, I'm not arrogant to the point of saying I have the solution to this conflict...You have it perhaps, but I haven't yet heard it.
The Left bloc in Israel pretended to have THE solution between 1993 and 2000; this solution was to establish an independent Palestinian State, to share Jerusalem, and to dismantle most of the settlements. This solution was proposed to Arafat in the year 2000, but he totally rejected it. Since then, most of the Left wing in Israel has kept suddenly silent...it seems a bit more complicated to find a solution...

BTW, concerning your "extremist minority" behind the terrorist attacks, let me remind you that most of the latest bloody bombings were carried out by the "al-Aksa martyrs' brigades", a group affiliated with Arafat's Fatah; there seems to be a kind of problem, at least, no?

As I guess you haven't read it up to the end (it was long), I copy the second part of the Haaretz article once more:

"But when we count up the mistakes, missed opportunities, stupidity and maliciousness, the scales tip in favor of the Palestinians, especially since the 1993 Oslo Accords, when they were so close to establishing their state. The moving ceremony on the White House lawn, the "peace of the brave," Arafat's commitment to laying down the sword - all of it collapsed the moment Arafat returned to Gaza and launched into impassioned speeches, calling upon his people to liberate Palestine by blood and fire. He encouraged them to spill the blood of innocent Israeli citizens in suicide bombings, and instead of building a state, caused so much harm to his people that no enemy could ever compete with him.

What logical explanation could there be for the spate of terrorist attacks that began within a year of that ceremony, when Yitzhak Rabin was yet alive? Why should women and children have been killed in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem during the days of Peres, a man of peace and a friend of Arafat? Why did a wave of violence leading to hundreds of dead on both sides begin just as Barak and Clinton proposed a plan in which Israel would return 97 percent of the territories? Why would Arafat want to topple Peres and bring Bibi to power? Why would he want to topple Barak and bring Sharon to power, sending all the peaceniks scurrying to the right?

And what interest could he now have in bringing back Netanyahu, who told Time magazine this week that he plans to reoccupy the entire West Bank, exile Arafat and dismantle all his forces? Most of the Israeli public does not believe in a military solution and is prepared to make concessions for peace. Yet again, Arafat is being given a chance to prove that he is capable of stopping terror and becoming a relevant leader and partner in dialogue. Don't blow it again, Yasser."
"



Perhaps, before calling me again and again an "extremeist", you try to answer some of the questions asked in this article (to your reminder: it's from Israel's leftist newspaper, not an extremist one...)
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 10:02 am

Um, are we going to get to discussing the actual topic of the thread anytime soon, or just keep flaming other users?  Insane

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Sun Mar 24, 2002 11:35 am

This is a worthless topic anyway, the Arabs will never allow Sharon to attend, they are simply not interested in communication.

TNNH
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:25 am

exactly, TWAneedsNOhelp; but it was meant to illustrate that Sharon seems not to understand some realities...and that is not reassuring...

Here's an article about the Arab reaction to Sharon's self-invitation project...:


The Jerusalem Post, 24 March 2002
(18:35)
Arab leaders scoff at Sharon's Beirut suggestion
By The Associated Press

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa and a Lebanese minister scoffed at Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for saying he would like to attend an Arab summit here to discuss peace prospects.

Sharon first made the comment to the Washington Post in an interview published yesterday, and expanded on the idea today during a cabinet meeting. Only three of the 22 members of the Arab League - Egypt, Jordan and Mauritania - have diplomatic ties with Israel, and most of the others shun all contact with Israel.

"I tell Sharon that he knows how Beirut dealt with him, and how it usually deals with people like him, therefore we don't advise him to repeat what he did," Marwan Hamadeh, Lebanon's refugee affairs minister said late yesterday.

Sharon was defense minister during Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon and led the push to drive Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat and his Palestine Liberation Organization out of Lebanon. Lebanese guerrillas kept up attacks on Israeli troops until the withdrew from Lebanon in 2000.

When reporters asked Moussa about Sharon's comments, he made implicit reference to Israeli leaders' equivocation about whether to let Arafat attend the summit and whether, if he did go, they would permit him to return. "You are asking this question as a joke, but anyway we will see if we will allow him (Sharon) to leave the area there and whether we will allow him to return if he comes," said Moussa.


When I said that in my opinion Sharon's idea made no sense whatsoever, I've been immediately called an "extremist"...so are perhaps Hamadeh and Moussa too, among some others...


 
Scorpio
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:31 am

Toda, I really don't see what your point is. Unless it's this: Nothing has worked in the past, so let's just stop trying. Is that what you suggest? Surely you can see the stupidity of that? Or do you wish to answer with even more violence, hoping that in some miraculous way things will get better that way? Well let me tell you something: they WON'T! They'll get worse.

Bottom line: you HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE!
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:41 am

I simply said that Sharon's idea to attend the next Arab League summit was totally out of place.

The Arab leaders are just saying the same thing, as you can read on the article I posted.

I haven't said anything more on this thread.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Toda,Reisinger

Mon Mar 25, 2002 9:14 am

Toda,Reisinger: I simply said that Sharon's idea to attend the next Arab League summit was totally out of place.

From the news I´ve heard that he just said this as a sarcastic answer to a journalist´s question about Arafat´s permission to leave for the summit and come back again. (In the sense of "...then I could just go there myself instead of Arafat")

There is no such plan, obviously.
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Mon Mar 25, 2002 6:24 pm

No; Sharon wants (wanted?...) to attend the summit, the idea was not to go there "instead of Arafat".

According to the news I've heard, Sharon asked US vice President to intervene in order for him to go to Beirut.

The sarcastic answer you're speaking about was the one Moubarak gave concerning Sharon's idea (I posted that article in a precedent message)
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Tue Mar 26, 2002 4:50 am

We´ll see soon enough...  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Tue Mar 26, 2002 5:09 am

What are we going to see so soon?

You have some hope to see Sharon at the summit in the end??
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Tue Mar 26, 2002 5:29 am

Toda,Reisinger: What are we going to see so soon?

Whether he actually wants to go.

Toda,Reisinger: You have some hope to see Sharon at the summit in the end??

I don´t care where he´s going unless he´s trying to actually contribute to a solution. I´ve not seen evidence of that, so far. But who knows...
 
Guest

Toda

Wed Mar 27, 2002 4:20 am

Your knowledge of the Arab world is lacking somewhat.

Israel and Iran in Beirut....together.....at the Arab Leage Summit?

Chances of that?

ZERO

Why?

Because Iran is not in the Arab League. It never has been, and it never will be. Iran is not even in the Arab world. Iranian's, for the most part, are of Persian and Azeri stock. Only something like 5% of the Iranian population is Arabic in descent.

Call an Iranian of Persian bloodlines an Arab, and I reckon he would cut your guts open.

So if Iran is the greatest evil which is facing Israel today, I would suggest that Sharon go to a summit in which Iran will actually be attending.
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:31 pm

This morning an ambulance from the Palestinian Red Crescent has been ordered to stop at a security checkpoint north of Jerusalem. The ambulance was on its way from Ramallah to Jerusalem.

What a scandal...isn't it? It's a blatant violation of the Geneva Conventions and any other international laws...

A terrorist was travelling in that ambulance, he was on his way to carry out a terror attack in the Israeli capital. An EXPLOSIVE BELT and other weapons have been found inside the ambulance.

Israeli security forces and Intelligence have been warning for months that the Palestinian Red Crescent ambulances were used to carry out terrorist activities;

it is belieced, for instance, that the woman who exploded with her bomb in downtown Jerusalem some weeks ago had made its way to the city aboard a PRC ambulance.


And there's another danger in regard with ambulances: some Israeli ambulances were stolen in the recent past, and many in the defense establishment are fearing that
Palestinian terrorists may try to carry out a huge car-bomb attack using a booby-trapped Israeli ambulance. One scenario would be to send such an ambulance at a hospital just after a terror attack, when hundreds of woundeds are taken to the hospitals. Security at the emergencies entrances of the hospitals has been beefed up.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Toda,Reisinger

Wed Mar 27, 2002 8:44 pm

Everybody knows that there are palestinian terrorists.

But where do you want to go with this?

"Proving" that all palestinians are sub-humans that should be summarily executed? Or what?  Sad

There are morons on both sides who are doing everything to perpetuate this conflict. How convenient that the palestinian terrorists never fail to supply the excuse for Sharon´s latest actions. And vice versa. That seems to be the only cooperation that´s going flawlessly.

I´ve not yet seen you criticize anything on the other side; No constructive commentary. No proposal for a solution except "the others are guilty and the others must begin first!"

That´s just cheap. And useless.
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:05 pm

"Proving" that all palestinians are sub-humans that should be summarily executed?

- ??! Is this a point YOU want to prove?


****


"I´ve not yet seen you criticize anything on the other side; No constructive commentary. No proposal for a solution except "the others are guilty and the others must begin first!""

-Ach so...And what are YOU doing here all the time? You are only blaming Israel and its Prime Minister...I haven't heard any negative comment about the central role Arafat is personally taking in terrorist activities; You say that "Sharon is not doing anything to make peace advance"...so that if YOU make me the moral, I can simply ask you why you wouldn't have written, at least, "Neither Arafat nor Sharon are bringing the peace process forward"... Thus your judgement is, for one reason or another, biased; you're not in a position to give advices on that matter...



What I've posted was meant to show that the situation is more complicated than "Poor Arafat who can't even travel versus criminal Sharon" or "Israel cowardly violates the international protection of ambulances versus a saint Palestinian Red Crescent institution" and so on...

I suggest you spend your next vacations in Israel...You'll see how it feels to be permanently in a state of fear and terror...to be frightened riding a bus or just walking in a street, to be terrorised at every street corner and to ask yourself wether or not to risk your life to seat down in a café or a restaurant...and to be frightened the ambulance there on your left may explode...if you remain so unsensitive to the terrible situation prevailing in Israel because of Arafat's own organizations.
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:58 pm

I suggest you spend your next vacations in Israel...You'll see how it feels to be permanently in a state of fear and terror...

Hmmmm.....I see you are spending your time in a permanent state of fear and terror...........oh wait a minute.....your profile says you live in Switzerland. Yeah, I know those heroin addicts in Zurich can be quite terrorising at times huh?  Insane
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Wed Mar 27, 2002 10:31 pm

You should have become a secret agent, Avyastiya...you're too strong!

***

I was in Israel in December-January and I can tell you it was a very stressful and frightening experience.

And I have family there; I used to never speak politics with my uncle, because he had very leftist opinions...But now he's seeing the situation differently, and I heard him for the very first time say that he's frightened, that he's scared for his two daughters.



But of course Aviastyia is better placed to give an advice..."huh?"
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Toda,Reisinger

Thu Mar 28, 2002 12:03 am

Klaus: Everybody knows that there are palestinian terrorists. But where do you want to go with this? "Proving" that all palestinians are sub-humans that should be summarily executed? Or what?

Toda,Reisinger: - ??! Is this a point YOU want to prove?

How would my above statement mean the opposite of what I wrote?


Klaus I´ve not yet seen you criticize anything on the other side; No constructive commentary. No proposal for a solution except "the others are guilty and the others must begin first!"

Toda,Reisinger: -Ach so...And what are YOU doing here all the time? You are only blaming Israel and its Prime Minister...

If you weren´t so unilaterally fixated on your hate of everything palestinian, you might have noticed that I´m emphasizing my view of the idiocy on both sides.


I only see two options:

1) Each side fixates on the other side´s fanatics and so "justifies" the next escalation level. Death and destruction will continue; Probably up to a final massacre.

2) Each side concentrates on the other side´s reasonable exponents and both sides jointly fight down their respective extremists. Peace becomes possible.


Right now 1) is happening. There´s absolutely no indication that any side will benefit from this.

Both Islam and Judaism are getting tarnished by their respective fanatics - quite possibly doing permanent damage to both. When the history of Christianity is any indication, it may be the first step to their demise as important influences on both of their societies.

Both definitely can´t claim being absolutely positive and peaceful forces in the world, any more (again, Christianty has lost that absolute claim long ago). The most damaging aspect is that both religions don´t contribute to a solution.

Without the religious pretense, I doubt the occupation of Palestine/Israel would have been done as ruthlessly as it was ("What do you want? We´ve got permission from god!"). The same is very probably true for the demented terrorism by palestinians ("Jihad", "Kill the infidels!").

So when will 2) finally be tried, again?
 
Guest

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Thu Mar 28, 2002 12:49 am

If you weren´t so unilaterally fixated on your hate of everything palestinian, you might have noticed that I´m emphasizing my view of the idiocy on both sides.


- I don't hate "everything palestinian", perhaps you hate everything Israeli, so that you see me with your biased view?
What I hate is Palestinian terrorism;

what I hate is to see Israeli teenagers blown up in front of a disco or in a pizzeria, or in front of a Jerusalem synagogue;

what I hate are the persons carrying out that kind of barbaric attacks, and the ones arming, supporting and blessing them;

what I hate is to hear on Palestine Radio that a suicide bomber is a great shaheed;

what I hate is to see small children being taught how to handle a weapon, or parading with fake explosive belts;

what I hate is to hear Arafat proclaiming he wants to be a "martyr for Jerusalem", giving the green light to more suicide bombings;

what I hate is to witness again and again burials of young Israeli men and women, of entire families, of children and babies;

what I hate is to see thousands of people parading in great joice because a dozen Israelis, including children and babies, have been massacrated while going out of a synagogue;

what I hate is to see ten Israeli teenagers lying dead on a pedestrian mall instead of having fun celebrating a birthday;

what I hate is to find an explosive belt in an ambulance...;

what I hate is to see a grandmother burying her 5 grandchildren;

what I hate is to see a young couple killed in the street, creating 2 orpheans aged 3 and 7; they were just caming out of a clinic where they performed a test because the mother was 5 months pregnant;

All this makes me sick, sick of sadness, and mad.



Most of the recent terror attacks, including the last one mentioned and the averted huge car-bomb attempt of yesterday morning in Jerusalem, were carried out by a group affiliated to ARAFAT - and this man must be a "partner in peace", right?




 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Thu Mar 28, 2002 12:59 am

Blah blah blah

So what about those whos land was stolen? Think that have a reason to hate Israel?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Toda,Reisinger

Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:10 am

Klaus: If you weren´t so unilaterally fixated on your hate of everything palestinian, you might have noticed that I´m emphasizing my view of the idiocy on both sides.

Toda,Reisinger: - I don't hate "everything palestinian", perhaps you hate everything Israeli, so that you see me with your biased view?

When I consistently defend Israel´s right of existence and the right of israelis to live in peace - that´s "hating Israel" for you??? Hello-o! Somebody home??

Toda,Reisinger: What I hate is Palestinian terrorism;

So does everybody.

When you´re telling everybody how much it hurts, then that´s certainly valid. But it´s not the only thing that´s valid out there.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Pm Sharon Wants To Attend The Arab League Summit!

Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:36 am

Klaus,

The problem we have is that there are so many users here on this forum that say that it is not valid, and that instead of being mad about terrorism, we should be mad about what's causing it.

There's plenty of people ont his forum who defend the acts of the terrorists, and that is infuriating.
NO URLS in signature
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Tbar220

Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:27 am

Tbar220: The problem we have is that there are so many users here on this forum that say that it is not valid, and that instead of being mad about terrorism, we should be mad about what's causing it.

I think you´re wrong about that. I know you are as far as I am concerned.

It is just silly to think that the topic can be about finding out "who is at fault". If that were the question, the only possible answer as of today had to be "both are!". And no solution in sight anywhere.

Tbar220: There's plenty of people ont his forum who defend the acts of the terrorists, and that is infuriating.

The palestinian terror is omnipresent in every discussion about the topic, and rightly so. Where I don´t agree with you is that this should be a reason to turn our backs on the other unbearable injustice in the conflict.

The palestinian terrorism is wrong and in no way justifyable. But at the same time the israeli occupation and ongoing dispossession of palestinians, the assassinations and the continued humiliation of an entire people are far below anything a supposedly open, democratic society could ever justify.

Asking all the world to overlook the second issue will always provoke opposition. And that´s an entirely different thing than "justifying terror".

Any credible attempt to stop illegal land-grabs or actually trying to build a solution would be very helpful, here. There´s a reason why Rabin and Sharon were/are looked at differently.


Today another attack has cost many lives.  Sad

And the fanatics on both sides are ready to continue the escalation if no-one is able to stop them.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: vikkyvik and 24 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos