godbless
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Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 7:55 am

Since there have been many topics here about Israel in recent days and weeks I wanted to add this since I heard this on a radio program this afternoon.

This is a statement from the former Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu:
"The only difference between Bin Laden and Arafat is that we know where Arafat is."


On the program he gave lots of insight on the conflict between Arafat, his organisation and Israel.
But what are your comments on this statement? Do you accept / reject it?

Max
 
N400QX
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:01 am

He has a great and valid point there... it may be a subtle criticism of the handling of the terrorist situation by Sharon's government-- they just are not being tough enough on the terrorists.

Oh, but he forgot one difference between the two-- Arafat doesn't have a $25 million bounty on his head  Sad. I think I'd get on the first El Al flight I could find if that were the case... lol  Laugh out loud
 
tbar220
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 12:24 pm

I don't agree with it, Arafat is just stupid in my opinion, I really un-talented leader, but he's not the terrorist on the level that Bin Ladin is.

Yet, I think he is also a terrorist because he has deliberately led and coordinated terrorist attacks (i.e. shootings, suicide bombings) against Israeli civilians in the last three decades.

But comparing him to Bin Ladin? No, I don't think he's that bad.
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NWA742
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:13 pm

I agree with it!
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:13 pm

Just like Bin Ladin, Arafat is a freedom fighter.
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
N400QX
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:16 pm

You're sick.  Pissed
 
kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:46 pm

Weren't we looking for a comparison?
One strugles for freedom in Palestine, the other fights for the freedom of Saudi Arabia...

No, N400QX Im no B Ladin supporter, but Arafat is a good guy!

Мы все под колпаком у Буша!
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:52 pm

Tbar220, partisans of World War II also targeted German/Italian civilians, just because there was no the other way.
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 8:09 pm

Arafat a good guy..........ha ha we'll have heard really everything!

But to call OBL a "freedom fighter" is a summit, an unprecedented summit! It seems people in the former Soviet Union badly need some courses on what "freedom" is about...!!

And how would you call the Chechen fighters? for instance the ones who (?) bombed the Moscow subway?





Hi TBar, I don't agree with your point.
 
LY744
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:14 pm

What did the US gov call Afghan terrorists in the 80's?  Big grin

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
ly772
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:32 pm

I think that Bin Laden and Arafat are different. Bin Laden obviously is crazy and is ready to die for some stupid reasons I'm not going into.

Arafat is, as was previously stated, simply an idiot. He says he wants peace but he gives out weapons to his friends (Palestinian Police) and tells them to go to Netanya or Tel Aviv or Jerusalem and shoot everything in sight.
 
Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 10:06 pm

an idiot??

That's the last thing he is...
 
Stratofish
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 10:40 pm

One of the biggest "idiots" is being left out of the discussion: Netanyahu
He has contributed far less (if anything at all) to the peace process than Arafat. He´d better keep his silly mouth shut!

Stratofish


P.S.: Did anyone relize that it´s about a week since the last terror attack? Weak sign things are improving........?
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Tue Mar 26, 2002 10:59 pm

strongly improving, yes...

Just this morning there was an attempted car bomb attack against a huge Jerusalem shopping mall. By chance, due to the very high presence of police forces in the capital, the car was seen as "suspicious" and the driver was told to stop...the car then exploded.

The Palestinians said that both terrorists onboard were members of the "al-Aksa's martyrs brigades", part of Arafat's Fatah...

But sure, Arafat has done a lot for the peace process...if organizing the killing of hundreds of Israelis is part of it...

Since Arafat's arrival in Gaza in 1994, life in Israel turned into an inferno; that's without doubt the result of Arafat's peace process (and of the foolishness of some Israeli politicians who brought him in)
 
avi
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:00 am

P.S.: Did anyone relize that it´s about a week since the last terror attack? Weak sign things are improving........?

Lets see what Israel had in the past week.

Tuesday (March 19th), Terrorists attack a military post, 1 officer dead.
Wednesday (20th), A suicide bomber in a bus, 7 dead.
Thursday (21st), A suicide bomber in Jerusalem, 3 dead (one of them a five months pregnant woman with a twins).
Friday, Saturday, no one was killed, "only" injured.
Sunday (24th), 2 died in different attacks.
Monday (25th), A man who was injured in December died from his injuries.
Tuesday (26th), 2 suicide bombers exploded themselves in Jerusalem when they realized that they were caught (no Israelis were injured) and, of course, it’s not the end of the day yet.

13 Israelis died in the past week, so, what are you talking about?


Long live the B747
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:05 am

P.S.: Did anyone relize that it´s about a week since the last terror attack? Weak sign things are improving........?

Or maybe, Stratofish, it means the Palestinian terrorists are running out of young men (and women) who are willing to kill themselves to kill others.

Don't worry-when there's signs that the peace process is working, Stratofish, the terrorists will ratchet up the violence once again. And once again, all the Israeli-bashers on the forum will tell us how it's all Israel's fault. Some things will never change.
 
Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:50 am

*The "peace process" is stalled:

- there are terrorist attacks because the Palestinians are frustrated because they are losing hope, because they don't see an end to the occupation and are desperate


* * *


*"Peace negotiations" are under way:

- there are terrorist attacks because the Palestinian extremists are opposed to the peace process; but the negotioations should continue, even though your peace partner's own organization is carrying out deadly terror attacks against your civil population...


 Confused  Confused  Confused
 
Stratofish
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 3:02 am

Ok, I realise I was wrong. Thought all that happened more than a week ago.
Wouldn´t have been bad if I had been right, huh?

Toda, what do you want to say with these quotes? They are not from this thread. And with using just a little logic very easy to understand and subscribeable.
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
godbless
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 8:19 am

Stratofish,

I really can only say that Netanyahu was the best Prime Minister Israel had in the past years! Ok, he didn't really keep the peace process rolling... but if you read the statement in my first posting then you can understand that. In another speech he once said that while he was PM Israel was in a "safe" state. I quote:"Between Israel and the Palestinians there was a cold peace - much better than a hot war." And that is what we can see today. He didn't negotiate with Arafat and why? Because: Quote:"You can not negotiate with anybody who seeks your destruction."

Max
 
Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 8:29 am

Tbar220, partisans of World War II also targeted German/Italian civilians, just because there was no the other way.

I'm sorry Kolobokman, I don't remember these partisans sowing terror and absolute fear into the hearts and minds of a civilian population. Thats terrorism pal, not fighting against the soldiers who protected a regime in which more than six million innocent civilians were systematically annihilated as part of a precise plan to carry out the total elimination of the Jewish people and achieve world domination by the Aryan race.

Your terribly confused, I'm sorry.

TNNH
 
kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:25 pm

Toda,Reisinger

It seems people in the former Soviet Union badly need some courses on what "freedom" is about...!!

We are enjoying the 'FREEDMOS' since 1991...THANK YOU! Is there more you can offer?

And how would you call the Chechen fighters?

Chechens had their freedom from 1991 till 1993 and from 1995 till 1999. It didnt work out, not for their neighbors not for their people. (Not sure if the western readers really realize what was happening there at that time.) If there are fighters whoes agenda is independance(freedom), they were misslead by their VAHABIT helpers on the way to get it.

I do not think that Palestinians goal is to 'push the Jews into the sea' , they proved it by keeping the peace between the intifadas. The terror in Palestine/Israel today is not against the civilians, but against the actions of the government. I'm sure if they would have the weapons to fight the IDF they would.
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:37 pm

Max-- you have made a great point about Netanyahu and I agree that he is the best Prime Minister they've had in a long time. I hope he wins elections next time around.

And the Palestinians have but one goal: no, not a Palestinian state, not the end of Israeli "occupation," nor East Jerusalem. No, they want the total destruction of the Jewish State of Israel and they will stop at nothing until that is accomplished.

Netanyahu is right-- you CANNOT negotiate with such people. That is like the US sitting down with OBL and saying, "ok, let's try to work this out in a warm, fuzzy, feel-good peaceful way." That is insane! He wants the destruction of America. We can't negotiate with him, we have to destroy him and his movement.
 
kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:45 pm

Twaneedsnohelp,

Don't you think that the civilian population could do something to change the actions of the government? Isn't that what really hurts them?
Palestinians who kill themselves are not crazy fanatics! They sacrafice the most important thing they have-their lives. One, two, a couple-yes, maybe. But when you see normal people killing themselves in great numbers to prove their point...something is really bothering them.


Twaneedsnohelp, this is not on the topic, but still...
According to the statistics the Jewish population of Europe in 1930 was 3 million, common knowledge Nazis killed 6 million of them, and 10 millions today are still getting paid for the repressions they lived through...
Someone fixed the numbers really bad!
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:51 pm

>Palestinians who kill themselves are not crazy fanatics!

Yes they are! They're wacks!

>But when you see normal people killing themselves in great numbers to prove their point...something is really bothering them

Or they've been brainwashed/pressured/compelled to do it... as we see with the Palestinians.

>According to the statistics the Jewish population of Europe in 1930 was 3 million, common knowledge Nazis killed 6 million of them, and 10 millions today are still getting paid for the repressions they lived through...

I believe there were three million Jews in Poland alone... the numbers aren't fixed.

By the way, why would you even bring up "fake" numbers of Holocaust victims?!  Yeah sure
 
tbar220
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:14 pm

Kolobokoman, I just lost all respect for you. Stating that the Holocaust was a hoax and that somebody fixed the numbers is the biggest disgrace you've made to me and all the Jews that died in the death camps of Nazi Europe.

And you've disgraced me and offended me. On my dad's side of the family, there is not a single surviving member save my dad, his aunt, and his mother. Everybody else was killed in the holocaust. That would explain why my family has one aunt and three cousins. That's it. And you have the gall to say that its a hoax, you don't even deserve to be discussed with civilly.
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kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:25 pm

N400QX,

Yes, brainwashing is the right term in this situation.
Maybe they were..., maybe you were and maybe even I was. Who knows?
But the pathetic fear of the western media to look anti-semitic really brings a toll on the truth. Who was brainwashed? Who needs the other to be brainwashed in this situation? Smeone who gets the millions from the US government perhaps?!

>>Palestinians who kill themselves are not crazy fanatics!
>Yes they are! They're wacks!

The whole autonomy? The whole nation? With the millions of supporters everywhere?


Fake numbers? I'll do a research on this!  Big grin
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:32 pm

Tbar220,

I'm sorry if I offended you. But this is somethin I heard. And I will do a researh to see if it is right.
Or should't I? Should I just 'brush it off' because it may sound offensive? Just like the media does it?
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
tbar220
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:34 pm

Let me get this straight you whack....your research, the research of one man can overturn all the evidence, and all the research of years of researchers, to prove that not only weren't six million Jews not killed in Europe, but that three million was the whole population of Europe to begin with!

You're a disgrace to these forums
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tbar220
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:35 pm

Your apology is not accepted, as you continue to insist that it is true. And you continue to offend me, not because it sounds offensive, it is, and it is a highly insulting and offensive statement.
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N400QX
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:44 pm

I'm with Tbar220... that was preposterous and offensive to this Gentile, too.

Ironically on this evening I am drafting up an essay that is discussing the Holocaust and how if it is not remembered, we are susceptible to another one, albeit not necessarily of the Jewish race (although quite possible).

The numbers are pretty much right on-- trying to refute them only makes one appear stupid and/or biased.
 
kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:48 pm

Tbar....I don't think that I said anything offensive to anyone. And it looks to me that you can't continue discussing this anymore, although I think that the effect it gave you is fake.
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
tbar220
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:50 pm

First you offend me with that statement, and then you tell me that I'm not really upset? That I'm lying to you when I say that I'm upset?

You have a lot of nerve.
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kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:52 pm

You are, but it is not justified.
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:54 pm

to me
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:59 pm

Kolobokman-- my advice: cut your losses. Take it elsewhere.

Anyway, here are some pretty solid numbers as for Jewish deaths. They seem pretty irrefutable.

Poland - 2.8 million
USSR - 1.5 million
Romania - 425,000
Hungary - 200,000
Czech. - 260,000
Germany - 171,000
Lithuania - 135,000
France - 90,000
Holland - 90,000
Latvia - 85,000
Greece - 65,000
Yugoslavia - 55,000
Belgium - 40,000
Austria - 40,000
Italy - 15,000
Bulgaria - 7,000
Others - 6,000

Total - 5,978,000

So take your crap elsewhere. Thanks.  Yeah sure
 
Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:10 pm

I do not think that Palestinians goal is to 'push the Jews into the sea' , they proved it by keeping the peace between the intifadas.

You know I don't care what you "think", but your thinking is absolutely wrong. The Palestinians kept no such "peace between the intifadas". Look up these dates pal:
Feb 26, 1996
march 3, 1996
august 21, 1995
july 24, 1995
april 9, 1995
january 22, 1995
october 19, 1994
october 9, 1994
april 13, 1994
april 6, 1994

15 people here, 9 people there, 20 people here, 25 people there, 12 people here, it starts to add up. The Palestinians have done nothing to further peace.

The terror in Palestine/Israel today is not against the civilians, but against the actions of the government.

Can you explain this statement please? I see Palestinians bombing CIVILIAN pizza parlors, CIVILIAN dance clubs, CIVILIAN cafes, CIVILIAN BUSES and shooting up CIVILIAN bus stops and CIVILIAN bar mittzvahs.

I'm looking through the victims of the Intifada. I see Bella Shneider, killed when a suicide bomber blew up Bus 823 last week. Bella, 53 YEARS OLD, is a CIVILIAN who was retired and wanted to be a nurse, in fact she was travelling to her nurse training course.

Lets see other "actions of the government" murdered in cold blood include 15 year old Atara Livne killed when terrorists started shooting at Israeli CIVILIANS travelling on a CIVILIAN road in Israel two weeks ago. Atara was bring driven by her mom to visit her friend Sarah in Metzubah. She, however, is not a CIVILIAN, but rather an "action of the government"  Pissed.

Or how about 23 year old Esther Kleiman who teaches Jewish and Arab Kindergarton Down Syndrom children in Ofra, one of the most noble jobs I can think of in the world. Esther, an "action of the government" was travelling on a Egged bus when a terrorist at the Arab town of Umm Safah shot her in the head through the windows of the bus.

These PEOPLE are CIVILIANS, who were killed in cold blood.

Your right the terrorists are not fighting the IDF, they are fighting the soldier's children. Noble freedom fighters they are! 15 year old Atara Livne must have put up a hell of a fight. Or 53 year old Bella, one dangerous woman, had to take her out to protect the Palestinian cause. Or 23 year old Esther, who had the audacity to live and try and teach and help down syndrom children. Damn her!

Well done Kolobokman, you have made your points crystial clear and humane. Well done pal.


 
tbar220
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:11 pm

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roguetrader
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:57 pm

Kolobokman,

I like the way you state your opinion although its unpopular, and your opponents are attacking you and telling you to leave. I suggest a new thread where you can discuss your holocaust theories further.

Tbar220, if you get offended by opinions, if they make you mad - that's great. Thats why these forums are here.

Your arrogant assertion that somehow your family's suffering is greater than anyone else's is insulting to me. 6M Jews died, 15M Russians, 3-5M Germans, 1M US/UK...all dead. But somehow your lost relatives are more important than the rest of us with lost relatives.

Somehow your special hardships should prevent Kolobokman from stating his opinion, you think he shouldn't even be allowed to say these things?

Tbar220, under your thinking, anyone with a dead relative in WWII, anyone who has ancestors who suffered...deserves to be beyond questioning, beyond criticism? Or only people who happen to be Jewish, or descended from European Jewish people, deserve this special treatment?

When, exactly, will we be able to question the activities or explanations or assertions of people who happen to be Jewish? Without bringing up the Holocaust or religion?

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 5:29 pm

You now the French expression merde humaine? That's all you are, nothing more.
 
tbar220
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 5:48 pm

RogueTrader,

First of all, don't put words into my mouth. If you want to argue, fine, but don't argue with things I didn't say.

Your arrogant assertion that somehow your family's suffering is greater than anyone else's is insulting to me. 6M Jews died, 15M Russians, 3-5M Germans, 1M US/UK...all dead. But somehow your lost relatives are more important than the rest of us with lost relatives.

I never, never, made that assertion, and so don't shove stuff in my face to make me look bad so you can "argue" with me. I was stating why I was angry, the fact that it affected my family. I never said that it made me better than anybody else, and I definitely didn't say I was beyond questioning or criticism. So cut the crap, and stop making deductions out of thin air.

Second of all, I'm not upset that he's questioning or criticisizing, I'm upset that he tries to spread on this forum the belief that the holocaust was either a hoax or greatly exaggerated. Its a very large insult, because Jews were systematically targeted and wiped out (genocide) in Nazi Europe to the tune of six million.

Now did I say I personally was beyond questioning or criticism because I have dead relatives from the Holocaust? The least I ask is that my dead relatives should be free from questioning or criticism from people like Kolobokman. When he says that the numbers are exaggerated, he's insulting the three million dead that he so claims aren't dead, even though its been proven that six million have been killed.

And yes, I feel that anybody killed (the dead people) in the concentration camps or death camps under Hitler's murderous regime should be free of questioning! Who is kolobokoman to question the validity of whether people were killed or not, when valid research has proven it so, and the bodies and ashes of millions of people show it true also? What makes it worse, is he tries to spread his ideas here on the forum.

And this doesn't have to do with just Jews. I can see the next step, I can just see it coming. He'll probably say that the other five million people killed in Hitler's death camps (Blacks, Homosexuals, Gipsies, etc.) also exaggerated their numbers to garner more sympathy.

And to answer your question. When can we bring up issues about Jewish people without bringing up religion or the Holocaust? Look at the thread above! Who brought up the Holocaust when were talking about Israel and Arafat? None other than Kolobokman! So why do you imply that Jews always do this?

Lastly, when there are people out there who try to claim that the holocaust was a hoax or that it was greatly exaggerated, this is what I call anti-semitism. I don't call it the trump card, and I don't always pull it out whenever somebody says something negative about me. This is open, blatant, anti-semitism. And its only the first step. Making blatantly falst statements like these just leads to worse anti-semitism.

The direction of anti-Semitism right out of the dictionary is:

1. Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.
2. Discrimination against Jews.

And to me, claiming the Holocaust was an exaggeration or a hoax is prejudice against Jews, so its anti-Semitism. This is a dangerous thing, and words can be a very dangerous thing as we all know. They lead to much worse things, like killing.

So now you see where my anger is coming from, and it has nothing to do with me saying I'm better than anybody else. It has nothing to do with me trying to insult you. It has nothing to do with getting people special treatment. It has everything to do with getting some respect for the six million Jews who died in the Holocaust.

Oh the Protestants hate the Catholics,
and the Catholics hate the Protestants,
and the Hindus hate the Moslems
and everybody hates the Jews.
- Jim Lehrer

Kind regards,

Tzvika
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Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 5:49 pm

There are too many threads about this old worn out topic, it's time to ask the administrators to ban any and all discussions on this topic.

 
Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:18 pm

yes ADG, TBar220's post was too well written to your taste...it's too difficult to attack him...so let's close the discussion! Freedom of speech seemed to be so important in your eyes...


Tzvika, thank you for that post, it's so well said. aval ein lemi ledaber; ein! (ha'ivrit sheli is just catastrophic, sorry)
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:39 pm

There are too many threads about this old worn out topic, it's time to ask the administrators to ban any and all discussions on this topic.

Let's just ban any topic that ADG is sick and tired of, ok?

What exactly should be banned, ADG? All threads to do with the subject, be they pro-Israel, or anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian or anti-Palestinian? Or are we talking only those threads that YOU find objectionable-you know, the ones that are raised in support of Israel? Just curious.
 
Stratofish
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 10:35 pm

I don´t see the point in banning whole topics either although this thread goes a little off the good track and I don´t think we can have a reasonible discussion under this thread with all what´s been said.

I never thought the holocaust would be subject of discussion... but well what the Israeli do in Palestine.... eh, nah better don´t spin that further... and bloodthirsty Likud "politicians", well you know my points towards them.

see you in the next thread
Stratofish

The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
Guest

RE: Israel And Arafat

Wed Mar 27, 2002 10:43 pm

...but the subject of the discussion should not be "what the Palestinians do in Israel"...

bloodthirsty Likud politicians...and peace-thirsty PLO terrorists, that's your point?...
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Thu Mar 28, 2002 12:09 am

Stratofish, I guess we'll add your name to that long, distingushed list on here of those who are apologists for the terrorists and murders in the Middle East.

As I said, you will see the terror against Israel increase-again-if there's even the SLIGHTEST progress towards peace. It's happened EVERY time there's been progress. Why? Because these thugs who blow themselves up DON'T WANT PEACE. They want to kill Jews-that's their goal in life-and in death.
 
N400QX
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:10 am

Tbar220-- awesome post. That pretty much put down those wacked claims.

As for ADG-- well, people have the sense not to listen to her anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem. Shut down all threads that she doesn't like- ha! Somone has a high opinion of themselves!
 
kolobokman
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RE: Israel And Arafat

Thu Mar 28, 2002 7:44 am

You were offended as a JEW at a statement that carried nothing offensive to anyone, I still insist on it. Anyone else can see anything anti-simitist in my questioning?

Will you be offended as an American, if I suggest that American loses in Afghanistan are greater than we hear about? I wasn't there, but I still question it, because I see the reasons the US government could persue by giving away the false information.
Russian loses in Chechnya are lowered to keep up the popularity of the war.
US wouldn't recognize the numbers of the civilians killed in Yugoslavia/Afghanistan...
Countries, organizations, groups of people will exagurate/lower any numbers they can to keep the popularity, to keep the money coming. It happened, it happenes THATS WHY I QUESTION IT!
You made my questioning sound anti-semitic!
Because you, as a person, can not keep a normal conversation going! I will discuss this topic further only if you stop attacking me and telling me to leave!


RogueTrader, I almost started to think that all Americans will separate themselves from anything that the media considers 'wrong'. It is nice to see some open minded people out there, who will discuss the things they might not like.
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Israel And Arafat

Thu Mar 28, 2002 8:14 am

Kolobokman,

It is a very big problem that whenever you discuss the situation with Israel and the Palestinians, a lot of other emotional issues get attached to it: like terrorism and religion. They will call you anti-semitic or sympathetic to terrorism if you dare to question Israel's policies. Then, at some point, Hitler and the Holocaust will get brought up which just makes everyone more upset.

I believe that Israel would cease to exist without the US. I also believe that if everyone in the US studied the situation with Israel that it would lose its support by the American people and thus the American government.

The only way Israel can keep its US support is by casting the whole problem in terms of terrorists, religion, or other emotional terms that make this whole thing look like a battle between the innocent peace-loving Israelis and the evil, terrorist, anti-semetic Muslims. Whether or not Israel's version of events is the truth is I think the issue that should be explored.

Also, I have to say that it would be virtually impossible for the US gov't to lie about US military casualties in Afghanistan to any great degree. The press is too big, too powerful, and quite rampant: every person who wasn't accounted for would be noticed and investigated. In the US, the press has brought down the government and continues to bring down politicians whenever they screw up and get caught.

What would you say is the general opinion in Russia about the Israeli / Palestine conflict? And the role of the US in the conflict?

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Israel And Arafat

Thu Mar 28, 2002 8:20 am

>You were offended as a JEW at a statement that carried nothing offensive to anyone, I still insist on it.

I stated above that I, as a Gentile, was offended by your implications.

Nor do I like the suggestions of the above post by RogueTrader.

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