racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:54 am

Some weeks ago there was a topic in the forum about "embarrassing german politics".

On Friday, we've seen real embarrassing politics in the Bundesrat, i think.

It's a shame how politicans, especially the christian democrats behaved. They did everything to stop a law which is requested by all important groups and organizations in the country. And after the social democrats fighted the law through the upper house with a learned theater play, the christian democrats went completly mad. My "special" friend Roland Koch(elected after an illegally and criminally financed collection of signatures) behaved like an ape which has been waiting for a meal for 5 days, and still get's nothing to eat.

I think that was one of the most embarrassing moments in the history of the Federal Republic of Germany.

And again, i don't want to think about what will happen in this country when Stoiber wins the elections in september  Sad
 
godbless
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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 10:10 am

Besides this embarrassing act of both the CDU and the SPD I do hope to see Stoiber win the election in September...
 
Rickster
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RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 6:26 pm

So was this brilliancy at the Bundesrat now arranged or not?

 
gekkogecko
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RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 6:57 pm

It was arranged by the CDU.
 
matt86
Posts: 249
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RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 7:45 pm

I hope Stoiber will become Chancellor in September!!
Schröder is only a stupid socialist for the north.


It's a shame how politicans, especially the christian democrats behaved.
What a real shame is, that the President of the Bundesrat, Wowereit, has broken our constitution!!
He was not allowed to take the different votes of Brandenburg as a yes. When the parties of one state can't decide to give their votes consistently, the state has to abstain from voting. After Wowereit has broken our Constitution on friday, there was an interview with three former judges of the Constitutional Court. And all three said, that it was definitively unlawful. I hope our president, Johannes Rau, won't sign this law. But, as he was a member of the SPD, he isn't neutral and will sign it. But at the end there is still the Constitutional Court... and he will stop these stupid socialists.

a law which is requested by all important groups
well, that's right. But the law in that form doesn't go far enough. At first, we have to integrate the foreigns which are already here, and then we can let in more foreigns. The law has to limit the number of immigrants, it shouldn't make it too easy to immigrate.


Art.51 Abs.3 Stz.2 GG: "Die Stimmen eines Landes können nur einheitlich und nur durch anwesende Mitglieder oder dreen Vertreter abgegeben werden."


--
Stoiber for Chancellor
 
Rickster
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:34 pm

"At first, we have to integrate the foreigns which are already here, and then we can let in more foreigners"

Interesting that exactly the same phrase was used by someone here in Austria during the last federal elections and now guess who it was....
Regards
 
Sabena332
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RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:53 pm

I hope Stoiber will become Chancellor in September!!
Schröder is only a stupid socialist for the north.


Fortunately is this only the opinion of a few bavarian hillbillies Big grin.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
dragogoalie
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RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:55 pm

I kinda wondered about Germany when I was there. There seems to be a sort of jealousy/hatred towards foriegners (not by everyone, but by many). I don't really know much about the government, but I did hear that they were trying to get a law passed that made it so no foriegners would be able to play professional ice hockey in Germany because it isn't allowing their home grown talent to flourish....Its not like you can expect just because there is room in the pro leagues because of a lowerd talent pool that all of a sudden things will start getting better. You have to start from the bottom of the program (with the kids programs) and work your way up. I played in a German youth program for 6 years and it was seriously lacking in dicipline and good coaching. Towards the last few years things started to get better, but banning foriegners is not the way to go. Can you imagine if the US government did that to the NHL? There would be riots.

--dragogoalie-#88--
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
godbless
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RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:57 pm

Rickster,

I do agree with that statement! It is the only right thing you can do. I myself am not a German. I was born in Canada have a Canadian passport and live here in Germany. I know what it means to be integrated but I also see many people here in town that live in Germany with their foreign heritage and are not one bit integrated. Many of them don't even speak German! And you want to say that it makes you a Jörg Haider if you want to solve that integrational problem rather than letting more problems in your country??? I'm not saying that a foreigner is a problem but there are just many that do not help our economy and only cost money and thus cause "financial problems".
 
Stratofish
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RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 10:50 pm

Sabena332:
I really do hope you´re right, but I fear you´re wrong.


For any reason I do not know, this whole show helped Stoiber. Although even the most dumb person should be able to realise this was a rehearsed theatre play (a pretty bad one). The onlyone who should be embarrased is the CDU.

Stratofish
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
Rickster
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Tue Mar 26, 2002 10:52 pm

Godbless
i didn´t say or mean that it makes everybody a JH having this thoughts. It just came into my mind reading this exact sentence wich JH was bashed for and not only by the socialdemocrats and greens here in my country. While i would see myself as a socialdemocratic liberal with a bit of conservativism (?), i have to agree with forcing the integration process before letting new immigrants in. I guess Austria and Germany do have the same immigration discussion not only because of the origin of the immigrants to both countries. Not only because of that i do follow the discussion in Germany with its mid-left and we here with our mid-right government.
Btw. our opposition (socialdemocrats and the green party) are critizing some articels in our new immigration law for example:
NON-EU (!) immigrants in the future will get a temporary permission to settle down here for a periot of the maximum of 4 years. Within this four years they have to learn german, about the history of the country, our political system, etc. etc. to force the integration process. At the end there will be kind of a test on all of that. If they are not willing or able to learn the language etc. etc. it will be possible not to extend the permission to stay followed by a trip back into the country of the origin (this law excludes refugees)
It may be strange but, even this is created not by my "political home" i agree with this educational integration programmes.
Too many people are living here since decates, who have no clue on the language, history or culture of the country they have immigrated in.
Regards
 
Klaus
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RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:14 am

We´ve had worse before. Remember how Kohl got into office?  Wink/being sarcastic


That said, I would also have preferred to see the new law having passed without all that fuzz.

But the constitution is a little unspecific (well, it doesn´t say anything) on how to resolve conflicting votes from a state. Especially when looking at the only precedent from 1949, Wowereit´s decision to ask the prime minister for a definitive vote seems at least a possible way of dealing with it. So I´d expect the decision to stand.

There´s yet another turn of events, by the way: The Saarland´s prime minister Müller has publicly confirmed that the ensuing outrage from the ranks of the CDU/CSU was indeed staged. This move does make it increasingly difficult, politically, for the CDU/CSU´s chancellor candidate to challenge the law before the constitutional court...  Wink/being sarcastic

It looks a lot as if many local conservative politicians loathe to get instrumentalized by Stoiber and the pinheads in his federal election campaign team. He gambled high - and fell flat on his face - again!  Big thumbs up

Difficult to explain how they couldn´t agree to the law although practically all of their requests had already been incorporated and all important groups in society urging them to agree. No explanation left other than trying to capitalize on the presumed xenophobia of the voters. Which might be a mistake, outside of Bavaria. But that might be too difficult to recognize when looking out from Munich...


It´s about time Germany recognized that immigration (like emigration, by the way!) is a normal fact of life even here. I´m quite certain that racism isn´t really the big problem; It´s more the fact that many people still don´t take the necessity of allowing some immigration seriously. And that means regulating the numbers and having an idea of how to integrate the immigrants. (Granting asylum to persecuted refugees is still necessary, but is a separate matter.)

The new law is an improvement on many aspects of the question, so without tactical intentions playing into it, there´s hardly a reason to be against it.
 
Guest

RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:37 am


Stratofish I also believe Stoiber will become chancellor.
With these unemployment rates Schroeder has no chance to stay in office imho.
 
Stratofish
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RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:53 am

I don´t think it´s just because of the unemployment rate. There is nothing Stoiber can do to imrove the situation. Life will even get more difficult for workers I predict.

People just fail to realise that 4 years are too short to rebuild what has been destroyed in 16 years. And Stoiber is kind of demagogic. He (mis-)uses the fears of people whilst saying practically nothing about how he is going to change things. Seems to work (unfortunately). And the current administration had to impose things that are absolutely necessary but unpopular (eg Ökosteuer).

I just hope for all I am worth that we will see the SPD&Greens win again! Not that I am a huge Schröder fan, but I´d rather have Merkel than the hick, right-wing nerd Stoiber.
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
Guest

RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Wed Mar 27, 2002 3:13 am


Well I think one of Schroeder's problems is that he said "Measure me on the unemployment rate", and I guess he will be meassured on his unemployment rate after 4 years.
And it is about time to get those greens away imho.
 
Klaus
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Wed Mar 27, 2002 4:06 am

The polls seem to indicate the voter´s are a little less stupid than Schröder, Stoiber and the press are thinking...  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:03 am

voters, that is...  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Stratofish
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:38 am

RE: Germany - NOW Real Embarrassing Politics

Wed Mar 27, 2002 10:37 pm

But just very little...  Smile
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way

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