LOT767-300ER
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Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:40 am

MSNBC has just reported that a NBC News Crew came under attack by the Israeli troops in the city of Ramallah.

Quite schocking i think that Israel would fire on a US news crew.
 
DE727UPS
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:47 am

Shouldn't surprize anyone. They attacked a US Navy ship in the 70's.
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:47 am

Well, I'm just glad it wasn't a Fox crew. That would classified as a loss.
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:48 am

Well, I'm just glad it wasn't a Fox crew. That would be classified as a loss.
 
mls515
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:52 am



Yea, I'd be pretty pissed if it was a Fox crew, although I could forgive them if they took out Geraldo.
 
777236ER
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:57 am

BBC news crews too, at a peace protest.
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LY744
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:02 am

It happened in the late 60's, De727ups. 1967, I believe.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
L-188
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:05 am

Yeah I want to say that it was during the 67 war but don't quote me.

Thank god it wasn't a FOX crew.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
LY744
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:17 am

Actually, I think it was the day before the 1967 war or something like that. It was somehow related to it. I think the ship was spying on Egyptian/Soviet (and Israeli?) activity in the area. The Israelis claimed it was a mistake, but many believe there is more to it than that.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:19 am

What I find missing about threads like this on, which are very rare by the way, is the moral indignation we see when the Palestinians fire upon foreign media .....

Israel fires on foreigners
Agence France-Presse
02apr02


ISRAELI troops fired on a pro-Palestinian protest in the West Bank wounding an Australian woman<?b>, six other foreigners and a Palestinian cameraman.

Under mounting international pressure to roll back their military offensive launched early on Friday, nervous Israeli forces fired on some of the army of foreign pacifists roaming the West Bank in solidarity with the Palestinians.

The Israelis opened fire during a demonstration in the town of Beit Jala near Bethlehem, wounding seven foreigners, two seriously, and a Palestinian cameraman, witnesses and organisers of the protest said.

The group Solidarity International said a 26-year-old Australian woman was hit in the stomach with shrapnel and rushed into surgery. A Frenchman, 54, was shot in the head.

The other foreigners wounded were two Britons, two Americans and a Japanese, the group said. The one Palestinian wounded was a cameraman for Associated Press Television (APTV).

Jerome Lallemand, an activist for the group International Civic Campaign for the Protection of the Palestinian People who witnessed the incident, said about 60 people were demonstrating in support of the Palestinians in Beit Jala.

"An Israeli tank blocked their way and Israeli soldiers opened fire in their direction," Lallemand said.

An Israeli army spokesman said they were investigating the incident but showed little regret.

"We know for sure that it was an act of provocation carried out on purpose by members of groups supporting terrorists, supporting suicide bombers, killing our women and children," said Lieutenant Colonel Olivier Rafowicz.

"These people decided on purpose to provoke our forces where we are combating terrorism. They are deliberately trying to provoke us," he said.

Lallemand said some 500 European pacifists were currently in the region "to demonstrate against the Israeli occupation".

He said they were spread out in various areas, mainly Ramallah, Bethlehem and Beit Jala.

my comment

Interesting that they consider a peaceful protest provocation........





VH-ADG
 
LY744
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:25 am

"Lallemand said some 500 European pacifists were currently in the region "to demonstrate against the Israeli occupation"."

Fine with me, as long as they fly LY!  Laugh out loud

"Interesting that they consider a peaceful protest provocation"

Too bad Palestinians don't seem to favor such tactics, eh? I mean, suicide bombings bring them so much support all accross the world, imagine what would happen if, god forbid, they started protesting peacefuly?  Insane

Oh well, unfortunately, the Israelis have nothing to worry about when it comes to that.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:15 am

Though I have supported Israel throughout this conflict, I am must unimpressed at their actions against the BBC and NBC. How stupid.
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777236ER
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:26 am

Israel has been stepping up its military offensive in the West Bank, a day after Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon declared Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat an enemy and said Israel was at war.
Troops have moved into the towns of Qalqilya and Tulkarm, where several Palestinian suicide bombers originated from, and tanks are poised on the edge of Bethlehem.


The city of Ramallah, under siege for four days, is now a closed military zone, with troops ensuring Mr Arafat's headquarters are off-limits to journalists.

As the Israeli action was being stepped up, a bomb exploded in central Jerusalem, although without causing the heavy casualties of recent Palestinian militant attacks.

The blast happened as an Israeli policeman flagged down a suspect car for a security check, killing the bomber and destroying the car, the city's police chief said.

The Israeli army is now in full control of Tulkarm after tanks rolled in, backed by helicopters, on Monday afternoon.

The town had been home to the suicide bomber who blew himself up in a hotel in Netanya last week, killing more than 20 people.

Widespread arrests

Late on Monday evening, several loud blasts and heavy machinegun fire were heard near Mr Arafat's compound in Ramallah, the French news agency AFP reported.

Soldiers have been sweeping through Ramallah to search for suspected militants and have so far detained 700 people, an Israeli army spokesman said.

"We are looking for wanted people who are hiding in private buildings, in apartments...We know they are hiding in official buildings...There are some who are hiding under Arafat's wing," Brigadier-General Ron Kitrey said.

With the city under curfew, Ramallah's residents say they are running out of food.

Medical supplies are also low in the hospitals and the morgues are full because it is impossible to transport bodies to burial grounds.

Mr Sharon says the Israeli actions are aimed at eliminating once and for all what he calls the terrorists' infrastructure.

But his Foreign Minister, Shimon Peres, in an apparent criticism of government strategy, said on national television that Israel should "ease the siege" on Mr Arafat because it had "polarised media attention."

"We must not deceive ourselves. We cannot resolve the problem in one fell swoop, this is very complicated," Mr Sharon said.

Media blackout

Journalists are now banned from the Palestinian leader's headquarters. The BBC's Barbara Plett, who is in Ramallah, says the ban prevents Mr Arafat from making defiant statements to the media that make him look more like a hero than a defeated leader.

The Foreign Press Association has protested strongly against the expulsion of an American television crew from Ramallah and has called on Israel to respect press freedom.

"Closing an entire city to the media indefinitely is an extreme and unjustified policy that makes it impossible for us to cover the important story unfolding here," the FPA statement said.

Around 500 foreign activists are in the West Bank, peace groups say, in an attempt to halt the violence and protect Palestinians.

Peace march

At least five foreigners and a Palestinian cameraman were injured in Beit Jala near Jerusalem when Israeli troops opened fire during a pro-Palestinian solidarity demonstration.

The foreigners, reported to be from Australia, France, Japan, Britain and the US, were taking part in a march in Beit Jala under the slogan "Peace not war".

But an Israeli army spokesman said the demonstrators had deliberately provoked the soldiers.

"We know for sure that it was an act of provocation carried out on purpose by members of groups supporting terrorists, supporting suicide bombers, killing our women and children," said Lieutenant-Colonel Olivier Rafowicz, quoted by the French news agency, AFP.

As Israel tightens its grip on Palestinian areas, those accused of collaborating are in increasing danger.

Masked Palestinian gunmen have shot dead 11 suspected collaborators to prevent their escape as the Israeli army rolls in.


Source: BBC
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LY744
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:33 am

"Masked Palestinian gunmen have shot dead 11 suspected collaborators to prevent their escape as the Israeli army rolls in."

Why do the actions of Palestinian terrorists always sound less negative when they are reported by the BBC?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
watewate
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 12:23 pm

Is Geraldo working for NBC now? That's about the only logical explanation for the ambush...
 
Pilot1113
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:12 pm

The news media seems to believe they're exempt from the rules. Maybe this will get those journalists to realize that Israel isn't joking.

- Neil Harrison
 
hawkeye2
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:30 pm

Were the journalists armed?

If they were not, then they are explicitly afforded protection under the Geneva Convention which Israel has adhered to, much like doctors and aid workers also are.

If they were armed, then they're like other military personnel from the point of view of international law.
 
zeus01
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:32 pm

Those news crews were warned not to come into Ramallah, but they did it anyway. Oh well, its only NBC. The guy described it on the news tonight, kind of cool. THe soldier shot at them. They didn't do anything, and he just started firing away on the vehicle.

 
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:43 pm

Isn't it funny when an American journalist is killed by Muslims in Pakistan, it is considered terrible and the perpetrators should be brought to "justice", but when an American news crew comes under attack from Israelis it's "oh well it's a dangerous place"
 
zeus01
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:47 pm

Goodbye:

The reporters were ordered to stay out of that area. The only story we have on it anyway is some stupid liberal reporter who doesn't like israel anyway. If you are told to stay out of a burning building and you went in and got burned, would you claim how terrible the building was?
 
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:04 pm

Zeus01: seems more like "double standards" than anything else....
 
Pilot1113
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:07 pm

>>Isn't it funny when an American journalist is killed by Muslims in Pakistan, it is considered terrible and the perpetrators should be brought to "justice",

I think this is a different situation. Israel went to great lengths to keep journalists out, but an NBC crew sneaked behind the backs of the Israeli army. The NBC crew had repeated warnings not to go into that area. For some reason or another they believed that they were somehow "devine" and that they would be protected by flying bullets and went anyhow.

- Neil Harrison
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:09 pm

I would imagine it's very difficult to conduct a war where the soldiers can't tell who is the enemy and who is just a "peaceful" demonstrator. People have been known to get injured and killed just demonstrating even without a war going on.....

Pete
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:10 pm

Personally i dont support neither Israel nor Palestine. But i dont understand how a NBC crew could SNEAK on the Israeli army????? come on its NBC for gods sake!
 
DELL_dude
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 3:35 pm

too bad it wasn't that war whore Christiane Imawhore.
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:03 pm

Too bad Palestinians don't seem to favor such tactics, eh? I mean, suicide bombings bring them so much support all accross the world, imagine what would happen if, god forbid, they started protesting peacefuly?

Think that question has been answered .. nervous Israeli soldiers would be shooting at them.

The news media seems to believe they're exempt from the rules. Maybe this will get those journalists to realize that Israel isn't joking.

What a stupid thing to say. Shooting at the media merely indicates that there is something going on that Israel doesn't want the world to see. If they had nothing to hide they'd have the media out there getting all the pictures of their triumphant attacks on these terrorists. what they are trying to hide is their systematic genocide of anyone remotely arabic because in reality they simply don't know who the terrorists actually are.

I would imagine it's very difficult to conduct a war where the soldiers can't tell who is the enemy and who is just a "peaceful" demonstrator. People have been known to get injured and killed just demonstrating even without a war going on.....

Doesn't make it right.


 
LY744
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:15 pm

"What a stupid thing to say. Shooting at the media merely indicates that there is something going on that Israel doesn't want the world to see"

You're joking, right? So the private who allegedely shot a few rounds at a vehicle (probably not knowing who was inside) is part of a higher conspiracy? LOL! I bet he has a phone with a direct link to Sharon, so they can share their evil plans together, 24/7, huh?

"systematic genocide of anyone remotely arabic"

I'm sure you have plenty of proof of that, don't you? Do you know what genocide is? Is it like the time you said that you saw Israeli soldiers strip and execute innocent Palestinians? You still haven't answered any of the dozen or so posts in which I asked you to give some more details about that. Who's "showing their true colors"?

LY744.
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:42 pm

You're joking, right? So the private who allegedely shot a few rounds at a vehicle (probably not knowing who was inside) is part of a higher conspiracy?

Was the the clearly marked media vehicle? Guess they don't breed them too clever in that part of the world?

I'm sure you have plenty of proof of that, don't you?

I'm wondering when you guys will show me proof of how the Israelis target the "terrorists". Unless they operate by your theory of "if it moves and it ain't israeli, then it's a terrorist".

Do you know what genocide is?

I live in Australia, I know what genocide is .. foreigners accuse us of it all the time ...

Is it like the time you said that you saw Israeli soldiers strip and execute innocent Palestinians? You still haven't answered any of the dozen or so posts in which I asked you to give some more details about that. Who's "showing their true colors"?

Dozen or so posts eh? I've seen two and when I re-find the URL you'll be the second to know. It wasn't something I put in my favourites folder.

By the way .. Why has Israel denied media access into the "war zone"?



VH-ADG
 
Pilot1113
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 1:32 am

>>Was the the clearly marked media vehicle? Guess they don't breed them too clever in that part of the world?

No, it was a white Yugo like the thousands of others out there.

Contrary to popular belief, NBC News does not airlift a huge satellite TV truck, with NBC News blazoned on the sides, into Israel and tool around Ramellah in it.

- Neil Harrison
 
roguetrader
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:36 am

Some have said the NBC crew were in a common unmarked vehicle and that their identity was unknown to the Israelis.

Others have implied that the Israelis knew who they were shooting at and just want to keep the situation hidden from view.


So, the Israelis were either shooting at any or all civilian vehicles they found without regard to the threat posed by the occupants - OR - they were deliberately attacking the media. Both of these versions fit with what the Palestinians have always claimed the Israelis do on their retalitaory missions.

If the Israelis told NBC not to go to the war zone, then NBC can't complain if they get shot at - I agree with that. But, they can still report the circumstances of their encounter and I for one am glad some journalists have the balls to ignore government gag orders.

How come the Palestinians don't get to ban the media when they go on the offensive?

kind regards,

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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 3:24 am

im pro-israeli but i dont agree with attacking news crews, im sorry but some people have gone to far.

"Why do the actions of Palestinian terrorists always sound less negative when they are reported by the BBC?

LY744."

oh thats funny, because somepeople would have it that the bbc is pro-israeli..

its neither it tell the turth...thats why i have an informed opinion.
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LY744
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 7:06 am

"How come the Palestinians don't get to ban the media when they go on the offensive?"

Because the situation is covered almost exclusively by free lance Palestinian journalists (as all others, including Israelis, are banned).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting the actions that apparently took place, but saying that it is part of an Israeli conspiracy to keep media away to hide their alleged "war crimes" is just stupid. That would only attract more media attention. Much more. Now, why exactly that person, who the journalists claim to be an IDF soldier shot at a civilian car is the real question. The only "excuses" I could think of are that the journalists acted suspiciously (equipment mistaken for weapons) or if they were in a clearly closed off area.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 7:19 am

Some have said the NBC crew were in a common unmarked vehicle and that their identity was unknown to the Israelis.

So we either have the Israelis shooting at a marked media vehicle or we have them shooting at an unmarked vehicle with unarmed civilians with cameras?

Others have implied that the Israelis knew who they were shooting at and just want to keep the situation hidden from view.

It think the ban on media in the "war zone" pretty much speaks for itself, dont you?

So, the Israelis were either shooting at any or all civilian vehicles they found without regard to the threat posed by the occupants - OR - they were deliberately attacking the media. Both of these versions fit with what the Palestinians have always claimed the Israelis do on their retalitaory missions.

Ooops .. Israelis fluffed up again huh?

If the Israelis told NBC not to go to the war zone, then NBC can't complain if they get shot at - I agree with that.

Not so. The western media have been given the right to travel where they like. Look at all the (justifiable) hysteria when that bloke was killed in Pakistan. America let the media on the beaches of Kuwait to film their invasion. They had nothing to hide, what have the Israelis got to hide?

Mind you .. it does put that whole EXCUSE "killed in the crossfire" in the spotlight for discussion doesn't it. The self proclaimed best fighting force in the world (hee hee) shoots first, asks questions later ...

But, they can still report the circumstances of their encounter and I for one am glad some journalists have the balls to ignore government gag orders.

Wouldn't you be telling the world if someone shot at you? That Aussie woman isn't helping the Israeli cause at all .. she's singing like a canary for the Australian Media and it's not looking good for the Israelis over here....

How come the Palestinians don't get to ban the media when they go on the offensive?

I suspect there are a number of reasons for that.. the Palestinians are unorganised rabble and the Palestinians per se don't attack Israel . the terrorists do. Mind you, that's changing isn't it, Israel has given the Palestinians (non terrorists) EVERY RIGHT to attack them, by declaring war on Palestine.



VH-ADG
 
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 7:26 am

Because the situation is covered almost exclusively by free lance Palestinian journalists (as all others, including Israelis, are banned).

That's not always the case and you know it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting the actions that apparently took place, but saying that it is part of an Israeli conspiracy to keep media away to hide their alleged "war crimes" is just stupid.

Then what is the reason?

That would only attract more media attention. Much more.

The Israelis leaders aren't known for their clever thinking

Now, why exactly that person, who the journalists claim to be an IDF soldier shot at a civilian car is the real question.

claim to be? Are the Palestinians now dressing up in Israeli uniforms and driving cars painted (and paper mache'd to look like tanks?), because there was no "claim" in the footage we saw of protestors being shot at .. is that the same for the journalists?

The only "excuses" I could think of are that the journalists acted suspiciously (equipment mistaken for weapons) or if they were in a clearly closed off area.

There are no excuses ....

What about this?

>>WIDENING its offensive in the West Bank, Israel
>>seized control of two more towns today in a day of
>>wild fighting that left at least 13 Palestinians dead.

>>ISRAELI forces fired on several churches in the West
>> Bank town of Bethlehem, church officials said,
>> adding that a priest previously reportedly slain was
>> alive.

(good knews that the reports of his death were greatly exaggerated  Smile/happy/getting dizzy)

>>The Israeli army also fired about 40 rockets of large
>> calibre on the outskirts of the villages of Kfarshuba
>> and Kfarhamam, they said.

Now they've declared war on Lebanon ...
 
LY744
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 7:32 am

"Are the Palestinians now dressing up in Israeli uniforms"

Palestinian terrorists have carried out several attacks in which they were wearing IDF look-alike uniforms.

"and driving cars painted (and paper mache'd to look like tanks?)"

Well, I don't know if those NBC folks know the difference between a BRDM and an M113.  Insane

"The Israelis leaders aren't known for their clever thinking"

Do you honestly believe that it is the policy of the Israeli leadership and IDF commanders to attack western journalists?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
RealHigh
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 7:53 am

Well, I'm just glad it wasn't a Fox crew. That would classified as a loss.


Is there really a difference?

Don't you think it's rather sick to gloat about your fellow countrymen being fired at?

That's rather sick.

 
LY744
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 8:47 am

"That's not always the case and you know it"

Yes, that's why I said "almost exclusively".  Big grin

LY744.
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tbar220
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 8:49 am

Realhigh,

Just some dark humor, view it like that.
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Pilot1113
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 12:41 pm

I think the firing on NBC journalists were out of frustration. Israel kept telling the news media to stay away, but the media kept sneaking around. I guess they finally fired upon them to scare them.

- Neil Harrison
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 6:02 pm

I haven't seen any article about Israel firing on NBC, so I can't make a determination their. Can someone supply the NBC link, because I haven't read anything on that?

As for the article posted by 777 on the peace acitivists outside Jerusalem in Beit Jala, they were interfering with Israeli soldiers and putting themselves in the way. In return an Israeli soldier shot at the ground in front of them and slightly injured a few Europeans.

Simple story. Don't get in the way of armed military fighting a guerilla war.

As for Bove, he's insane. So, he held a solidarity meeting with the Israel's "enemy" Yassir Arafat, its for good reason he was deported.

I don't see anything disturbing or wrong here.
 
777236ER
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RE: Israeli Troops Open Fire On NBC News Crew

Wed Apr 03, 2002 10:21 pm

TNNH, although not in the online article, the actual segment on News 24 was pretty disturbing. The protestors weren't getting in the way, yet were being fired at with live ammuntion. The BBC news crew too. Even when they were running away from the Israeli soldiers and hiding, shots were still being fired. The fact that some protestors were actually shot shows that they weren't "shooting at the ground".
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