saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

Cost Of Fuel

Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:01 pm

With all the events in the Middle East and Iraq putting a ban on oil exports the base cost of oil has increased.
An average price for petrol in UK is now £0.77 per litre or £3.50 per gallon. That's close to $2.50 a gallon. Most of that is tax of course and when the price goes up the taxman gets more.
Do you think you pay too much for fuel because in the UK we do. There have been protests here and the price went down for a short while but it's back up again. The oil companies blame the government and the Arabs. The goverment insist it's everybody elses fault, increase the tax and say we must pay to save the environment so it's justified.
Fuel prices go up but it doesn't just hit the motorist. Everything goes up because it all relies on transport to get to the shops, the costs are just passed on.

It's about time some more alternate forms of energy materialised. They must be getting cost effective by now.
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:08 pm

£3.50 = $2.50 ????

More like $5 I would say.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:55 pm

Sorry, my calculator is not working properly!!!!
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 12:31 am

I think the price for a gallon of gas in the U.S. is historically low based on the rate of inflation.

I used to pump gas from the late 70's till the early 80's. In 1978 the price of regular was about .65 cents per gal.
I think it was 1980 when gas broke the dollar a gallon mark. But the gas pumps only could go as high as 99.9 cents per gallon (dollar a gallon was sort of the Y2K of its day). So what we did 'till the new pumps arrived was, if the price was $1.04 p/gal, they set the pump to .52 cents p/gallon and we'd multiply what was on the pump times 2.

It worked fine except my brain was in the X's 2 mode.
I remember looking at my digital alarm clock each morning and trying to decipher the time because my first reaction was X's it by 2, really.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:39 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 1:08 am

I've had my car only for one yaer now, and I lived in the UK at the beginning of this time.
Cost was ~80p per litre, and I did find that quite expensive.

When I moved back ot France last fall, I was really glad to pay only 6,50 francs ( ~60p / 90 cents), and boy was I glad when it kept on getting cheaper and cheaper. It stopped at 91 eurocents ( ~6 francs / 57p), and since a few weeks it went back up. Now, I hate having to pay more that one euro per litre, even if it is the price it was 6 months ago  Pissed
 
Ndebele
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:16 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 2:23 am

In Stuttgart/Germany, I pay 1.069€ for a litre of "Super" (that's 98 octan petrol I think, my dictionary calls it "four-star petrol"). I was told that it's cheaper in northern Germany, because southern Germany has a pipeline from Triest, whereas northern Germany has pipelines from Rotterdam and Emden, and Italian pipelines are more expensive - not sure if this is true.
Anyway, most of that is tax - ~0.50€ tax per liter in Germany (~0.85€ in UK). But I think it's a good thing to have a high taxation on petrol, in order to lower the demand, as long as they use that money to subsidize public transports. But I have the feeling that fuel prices become higher and higher, and train connections become worse and worse  Sad
 
vw
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2000 8:39 am

Gas In The U.S.

Thu Apr 11, 2002 2:49 am

That is one more reason to be mad at the U.S. Gas is cheaper than a 2 litter bottle of Coca-Cola. I'm in Iowa in the U.S. 2 liters of Coke $1.25, one GALLON of gas right now is $1.35. The most I have ever seen gas in the U.S. was $1.89 in Fargo North Dakota last summer. Around two years ago it was as cheap as .89!!!!! Americans are so wasteful. Americans for the most part have no idea what fuel costs in other countries. Here 90% of cars are automatics and have a V-6 or &-8 engine. In Iowa it is also common to see V-10 ford trucks and SUV's that get around 10 miles per gallon.
 
Ndebele
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:16 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 3:17 am

I agree with Vw. As long as gas is cheap, people will waste it. With higher gas prices, people will buy cars with less consumption - but I fear they will keep on driving their V-6/-8 cars and vote for the party that supports oil extractions from Alaska and Antarctic  Sad
 
N312RC
Posts: 2584
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:04 am

I drive a Ford Explorer with a 4.0L SOHC V6 (207 HP), and spent 19.00 USD on gas yesterday to fill the tank
N/A
 
FlyBoeing
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri May 05, 2000 2:08 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:44 am

That is one more reason to be mad at the U.S. Gas is cheaper than a 2 litter bottle of Coca-Cola. I'm in Iowa in the U.S. 2 liters of Coke $1.25, one GALLON of gas right now is $1.35. The most I have ever seen gas in the U.S. was $1.89 in Fargo North Dakota last summer. Around two years ago it was as cheap as .89!!!!!

Wasn't it great? We should get the CIA to engineer more diplomatic discord and cheating within OPEC so that we keep on getting gas that cheap! It's great for the economy. Not so good for the environment, but that's a matter of retargeting the tax revenue levied on gasoline.

Americans are so wasteful.

No, other countries simply distort the true price of gasoline so that they can fund socialist programs. Fewer people in Europe can have a car. Because of that, they don't have the ability to go anywhere on their own schedule, they can't shop around for the best bargains, they have to do grocery shopping more than once a week, they can't engage in "do-it-yourself" home projects that save contractor costs.

Public transportation will never work in a country that's as spread out as the U.S is.

Cars provide unique benefits and it's in our best interest to have them as cheap to operate as possible.

Americans for the most part have no idea what fuel costs in other countries.

Why should we care?

Here 90% of cars are automatics and have a V-6 or &-8 engine. In Iowa it is also common to see V-10 ford trucks and SUV's that get around 10 miles per gallon.

Automatic transmissions lower the barrier to entry to having a car. They cost maybe 2 mpg in efficiency. That's a small price to pay for advancing automotive technology to people who otherwise might not drive - old people, young people, and the less mechanically competent.

The reason people buy SUVs and pickup trucks even if they don't use them in their designed role is that they get intangible utility out of them. Otherwise, why would they buy them? They buy them because they have a lot of cargo space, they are incredibly safe in an accident, and you can do things with them that even if you don't do now, you might in the future.

The SUV reflects America's pioneer values - the fact that we want to be ready for anything, the fact that we don't live our lives doing the same things all the time. What if I buy a boat? Where will I be if I drive a Focus and can't tow it? What if I want to haul a load of mulch? What if I want to move furniture?

What if it snows outside?

While these eventualities are remote, they are significant. If it snows and you get in an accident, you may pay thousands in medical bills. That alone may be worth the extra cost of the SUV. You can carry loads more stuff and not have to make multiple trips which cost you time and money. New possibilities open up - performing your own contractor work can save you thousands.

I'm tired of all that crap spewed by the "anti-SUV" crowd. My car choice is my damn car choice. As long as the costs I pay in gasoline reflect the costs I inflict on society - in pollution and roads - I should be allowed to consume as much of it as I want.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 6:21 am

Last year when the cost of a gallon was high (pushing $2.00/gallon), the governor temporarily repealed the state fuel tax which took it down 10 cents. Right now, I believe I'm paying $1.60/gallon at the pumps (I'll find out after work today) Big grin
"Shaddap you!"
 
f.pier
Posts: 1405
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RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:00 pm

Fewer people in Europe can have a car????

I don't think so, check the data of Italy, France, Germany and you'll see that a lot of people have a car.

Maybe here the unleaded fuel (95 oct) is expensive (1.08 EUR/L) but if we go to an hospital, they take care of us........

The "diesel" price is about 0.85 EUR/L (consider that in Europe a lot of people drive a diesel car, here in Italy, on February, more than 40% of new cars were diesel).
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:37 pm

I have to agree with Flyboeing on his comments.

I wish I could remember what gas was in Stuttgart 10 years ago when I lived their but it was pretty outragous. But truth be told a lot of the cost of gas over there is because of the taxes that are placed on it. Roughtly twice the rate in the US depending on country. So part of the fuel problem over there is self-inflicted and as such I don't have that much sympathy.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BCal Dc10
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:47 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:07 pm

I just filled my car up this morning with unleaded... and the total price was £65 (it was running on fumes and is a 4L jeep grand cherokee!) which is about €105 or $93, which I think is pretty expensive.
Trouble is for me public transport isn't an option as I live in the country where there isn't any public transport.
I am looking forward to seeing what the Chancellor has to say in the up n coming budget. I hear rumours that the fuel protesters are getting itchy feet about it as well....

 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:49 pm

I'm not sure that the government will have the nerve to put a big increase on fuel duties after the last time. If one thing can be said to be true about the Blair government, they panic if they think they are losing the support of the people. They are superb at finding out which way the public are heading, and then getting in front of them. They view this as leadership.

A couple of things about the fuel price in the UK. If you remove the taxes, British fuel is actually the cheapest in Europe! In other words, having a go at the oil companies is wide of the mark. Also, the likes of BP and Shell make very little money from petrol, their profits are elsewhere. You frequently hear people complaining about them and saying that they can afford to cut the price dramatically. That is true, but they cannot legally do it as it would be regarded as dumping, and would put the independents out of business.

As for BP's £10 billion profits, you need to remember that these companies are absolutely huge. Their margins are around 9%, nothing out of the ordinary for any company.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
FlyBoeing
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri May 05, 2000 2:08 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:19 pm

F.pier:

I don't think so, check the data of Italy, France, Germany and you'll see that a lot of people have a car.


So you're saying that kids routinely get cars at the age of sixteen there? You're saying that middle class families routinely have two cars? I didn't see that when I was in Europe. I saw a lot of families squeezed into tiny cars that really didn't serve any much better than public transport.

Maybe here the unleaded fuel (95 oct) is expensive (1.08 EUR/L) but if we go to an hospital, they take care of us........


If we go to hospitals they take care of us too. Except we get charged for it. Our healthcare system is the world's best - except, of course, in matters of equity. True capitalists care very distantly about equity, though. And if the healthcare market were made more perfect ours would be the best on earth.

 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:26 pm

Well petrol is around 10SEK/litre in Sweden (big psychological
barrier a year ago, not any longer) which is about 1US$
or 1,1 €uro which means that if I fill my Citroën DS23 Famillale it will cost me 57 US$. Many farmers have agricultural diesel (well others as well) which cost them around 4SEK/litre and they use it in their cars (illegal),
so the fuel prize is less for these guys. Catch is that
people driving new SUVs like the Nissan Patrol my oncle
had, it will cost you 1300US$ in road tax every year
(petrol cars pay less road tax and 30 year old cars pay no road tax).
As for alternative fuel, the company I work for tried
methanol in the company VW Caravelle diesel (not all
diesels can drive on methanol, because fuel pipes can
be damaged by the fuel), but stopped since it become
like thick during cold weather that exist during Swedish
winters, also the fuel pump pipe at the gaz station
had to be replaced more often when the use of methanol. So many disadvantages with methanol in
diesel, also fuel consumption is larger but not by much...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
User avatar
VapourTrails
Posts: 2193
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RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:47 pm

In Australia it's almost $1 a litre, last time I checked. In my experience, that's not bad compared to UK! Wow!

During the Gulf War it was over $1 if I remember correctly, but that is what it's been here now normally in the last year -- fluctuated about 20 cents or so .. I don't take too much notice.

We have lead replacement fuel now, but it still costs more than unleaded, like the old Super did .. where's the logic in that? Innocent
From Australia. Qantas - Spirit of Australia.
 
Nik
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:00 pm

"so that they can fund socialist programs."

Social programmes, not socialist.

"Cars provide unique benefits and it's in our best interest to have them as cheap to operate as possible."

Cars have a positive affect on the economy, but also have a cost.
The impact on the environment? The cost of people becoming ill from the pollution?

"Americans for the most part have no idea what fuel costs in other countries.

Why should we care?"

You shouldn't care about the price - but maybe think about that the US pollutes much more than other countries. And you pollute not just your own country, you pollute ours too.

"That's a small price to pay for advancing automotive technology to people who otherwise might not drive - old people, young people, and the less mechanically competent."

Yet in Europe all of these people have learned to drive a manual...

"they are incredibly safe in an accident"

But easy to get into an accident with.....

"My car choice is my damn car choice. As long as the costs I pay in gasoline reflect the costs I inflict on society - in pollution and roads - I should be allowed to consume as much of it as I want."

But DO you pay the costs you inflict on society?

"You're saying that middle class families routinely have two cars?"

Many have, yes. And most middle class families could afford two cars. They just don't need it.

"I didn't see that when I was in Europe. I saw a lot of families squeezed into tiny cars that really didn't serve any much better than public transport."

I'm sure these families know what they need. Would you drive a Ford Exploiter in central Rome, Paris or London?

"Our healthcare system is the world's best"

Opinion, not fact.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:38 pm

I was mistaken. I paid $1.38/gallon of regular unleaded which (if I did the math right) converts to £0.25 per litre.
"Shaddap you!"
 
FlyBoeing
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri May 05, 2000 2:08 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 1:56 am

With all due respect, Nik, have you lived the way Americans live? Have you truly experienced the wonder of an automotive society? Public transport doesn't cut it and will never cut it.

Yes, cars do pollute. But the cost of the pollution is NOT $2 in taxes per gallon. For one thing, American cars require a bit more in pollution control than European cars - you should note that some cars like the Porsche 959 aren't legal here due to emissions regulations.

And most of the time, gas taxes don't even cover anti-pollution items. They cover politicians' pet projects. If we tax gasoline disproportionately, we impose inefficiencies on our economy that I mentioned many posts above. High gas taxes are forcing European families to lose the very real utility of having two cars. If you have two cars, you have the option of:

1) Having two parents work
2) Living in an area not served by public transport. This saves money in rent and mortgage payments. It also saves you from the monopoly power of the small store.

I know that I personally am a good SUV driver. I won't get into accidents due to rollover. Most of the additional safety danger, therefore, comes from other drivers. I should be entitled to protect myself from them.
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:17 am

Though I'm no fan of SUV's, I concurr with "Fly-Boeing". I heard the argument time and time again about how "gasoline is too inexpensive in the US..." or somesuch rhetoric. It isn't too cheap at all... It's just not priced artificially high to discourage its use, as it is in Europe. -- Hey FDX: I was a "petroleum technician" ( what my boss at the time jokingly refered to my position as a gas attendant ) in '79-'80 too. In one fell swoop I remember gas going from the 60's to $1.38...VERY high in 1980 dollars. We did the same thing with the old rotating digit pumps-- doubling the reading. It sure was odd but I became very proficient with "in your head" math. I used to joke to customers not to ask me the time: I had a digital watch and I was likely to tell them the time was "six sixty" if my watch read 3:30. That job ( $3.10/hr ) was my first "real" job and paid toward my A&P tuition.
 
Nik
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:33 am

"Have you truly experienced the wonder of an automotive society?"

Erm, yes. We do have cars in Europe, you know.
And sure, it's nice to have a car. But if driving involves sitting in traffic for an hour and then not being able to find a parking spot, I'd much rather take the train.....

"Yes, cars do pollute. But the cost of the pollution is NOT $2 in taxes per gallon."

Are you sure? Nobody knows exactly how much the pollution affects the environment. If it changes the climate, would a $2 tax be enough?

"And most of the time, gas taxes don't even cover anti-pollution items."

Sometimes, true, but taxes do have the effect that people drive less.

"1) Having two parents work"

Many families without a car have two working parents. It all depends on were you live. Live close to work and walk or take the bus or train, live far away and you have to own a car. It's a choice you have to make.

"Living in an area not served by public transport. This saves money in rent and mortgage payments."

Money that you can then spend on a car.

"I know that I personally am a good SUV driver. I won't get into accidents due to rollover. Most of the additional safety danger, therefore, comes from other drivers. I should be entitled to protect myself from them."

I'm sure that you are a good driver and don't cause accidents. But SUVs have relatively high death rates.
 
f.pier
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:47 am

Flyboeing, you say that in Europe boys and girls don't drive at the age of 16!!!

You're right, but consider that here the roads are small because ciries were built centuries ago and there is an efficient public transportation system amost everywhere.

Italy has 56 millions inhabitants.

Italy has more then 33 millions of cars.

The situation is similar in other European States.

I don't say it's a good thing because they pollute and they take a lot of space.

We drive smaller cars, ok, I agree, but they're full of technology, easier to park and much more performing than American cars.

We have Volkswagen, Seat, Skoda, Peugeot, Renault, Citroen, Fiat, Lancia. They all build very good small cars (which are quite expensive to buy) which perfectly fit our road system.

I'm absolutely sure that European Health System is far better then American one and I feel perfectly safe when I go in an European hospital (also if I don't have to pay the bill).

Somebody says that European drive a manual.

It's true. Wanna compare the pleasure you feel when you drive a manual with the boring automatic?????

Ciao

 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 3:07 am

Manual trans are indeed fun; for awhile anyway, but then they get annoying. Especially while talking on the cellphone and enjoying a soda. Big grin

"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 3:25 am

In Qatar the price of fuel is $0.19 per litre for "Super"
 
f.pier
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:12 am

JetService, I really think it's a bad idea using the cellphone and drinking a soda while driving, either you have an automatic or manual shift.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:29 am

F.pier, but manual and automatic are the only two choices!!!
"Shaddap you!"
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:39 am

In Toronto right now, it is CDN $0.719 per litre which is quite high (for us at least). That translates to 0.51 euros, $0.45USD, 0.32 pounds sterling.

A few months ago, the prices were in the low 50-cent range.
 
f.pier
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:48 am

OK, JetService.

I meant that while you're driving you shouldn't make phone calls and you shouldn't drink.

Doesn't matter if you have manual or automatic.

P.S. It's not true that manual or automatic are the only choices.

We have steptronic, salespeed, etc. which allow you to change gear with no traditional clutch!!!!!!

Audi, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, and many other Europeans offer this option to their clients.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:37 am

F.pier, I do know about this clutchless trannies, but we're talking about using the hands to listen to the phone and chug a drink. So essentially, they are manual for the sake of this conversation.

But I agree you shouldn't drink and drive, however I don't put booze in the soda until I'm at least a mile from my house. Thanks for you concern, tho!

What I need is steering-wheelless steering. Is there such a thing as turntronic, or saleswerve??
"Shaddap you!"
 
TWAL1011
Posts: 2317
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:39 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:52 am

Well, I've got a V8, but I make up for it with my low-flush toilet.  Smile
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 12:36 pm

, however I don't put booze in the soda until I'm at least a mile from my house.

That makes me feel better, I thought I was the only one who did this.

Actually, having a stick shift and talking on the cell phone and drinking your soda (I prefer: Super Big Gulp form 7-11) can be accomplished if you're in highway cruise and use your knee to steer, which I do frequently. The real problem is when you have to talk on the phone, drink your soda, shift gears, and turn the corner. You need like 3 people for this if you're to follow those spineless safe driving rules.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 12:46 pm

Another off topic response here. In other countries, you may have heard that if you don't have money or insurance, you don't get healthcare in the US. The Clintons helped perpetuate this rumor.

For serious illness and injury, this is never true. If you have to go to a hospital, you are treated regardless of ability to pay. Its not like if you're half-dead or unconscious the doctors start fishing through your wallet to see if you've got enough money. There are also free clinics where you can go for more routine medical needs.

The only time this is a real issue is in the case of elective or optional procedures - or in the case of illegal aliens who are afraid going to a hospital will get them deported.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:45 pm

Forgot about the pollution controls...Thanks for reminding me Flyboeing....

I always got a kick about how Europe was on this big green kick when I lived in Germany. Heard all of the horror stories about not being allowed to changed your cars oil in your driveway and stuff like that. Then I helped a couple of buddies convert their German spec cars over to US specs. One of the changes was that you needed to install a catalytic converter, they where not required over there.

Seemed a little bit...how should I phrase it?.....like the run around. Claim that the US is a polluter and not green, then don't require pollution control technology on their automobiles.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 6:53 pm

RogueTrader, I've always been amazed at the willingness of some people (not you!) to claim "our healthcare system is perfect, yours is crap", on either side of the debate. As far as I understand it, the US is both best and worst, and the various European ones are all quite good. You pays yer money, you takes yer choice really.

As for the drinking and driving thing, cruise control has never really caught on in the UK, limiting the options for driving with your knees whilst gulping a beer. Some argue that this is due to the roads being very busy throughout the country, but it is my firm belief that it is really due to the fact that you'll find a pub every 200 yards anyway, and it is far more civilised to sit down in the pub and get sloshed, particularly since the police tend not to frequent the bars.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:00 pm

I've always found it ammusing that in the most technically advanced country in the world, when you get stopped for drink driving they make you walk up and down a line and stand on one leg to prove it.
 
radarbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:00 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:47 pm

In Montreal, the gas price fluctuates between 0.789/L on thursdays (pay day) and 0.709/L (weekends). That translate roughly into 1.88$US/G and 0.345 GBP/L. It usually cost me around 26$ Can (16$US, 11.4 GBP) to fill up. About a month ago, the price of gas used to be in the 60 cents range, and in Ottawa in the 50 cents range!

Radarbeam
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:00 pm

RogueTrader, thanks for the tip. I do utilize my knees to maintain safe motoring. But those big turns are quite a challenge. For the safety of fellow motorists it is indeed handy to take along a pinch-steerer for those tricky turns in heavy traffic. Sometimes I take my seven year old son to do the steering, but he can't see over the dash, so I have to tell him when to start/stop and how much to turn. This is VERY inconvenient since I have to take a moment to stop knocking back the rum and Coke, plus the person on the other end of the line gets all confused because they think you're yelling at them. But its worth it for safety-sake. Glad to hear you got all your bases covered. Geez, I wish more people were as consciencious as you and me!!!

Saintsman, they do that to test your impairedness. Everyone is different. Using the breathe tester may only indicate .05 which is under the limit, but someone may be totally hammered at .05 and still impaired. Walking the line and clucking like a flamingo will show them how hammered you are regardless of what the scope says.

"Shaddap you!"
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

DUI

Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:11 pm

For those of you that are interested in field sobriety tests, my roommate, who happens to be a police officer told me that they usually go something like this: at least this is the procedure in his city

First, the obvious-walking in a straight line. Tests for coordination-or lack thereof. Being off balance and difficulty walking are definite symptoms of impaired reflexes.

Second, the eye test: the officer will shine a light into your eyes to see if your pupils are dilated or not. If you're under the influence of a controlled substance, your pupils will remain dilated. This is where people who are driving drunk and claim to be tired usually get pinched. This is a symptom that you cannot fake. A person that's simply tired will have their pupils contract when the light is shined.

Third is leaning your head back and closing your eyes and touching your nose. This Is basically another version of walking in the line: to test your coordination and reflexes. A person that has 87 octane blood simply cannot remain standing still or perform the most basic actions.

Fourth is the doozie:

The officer will tell you to close your eyes and tell you when to tell him, when the officer says "now" when 30 seconds have passed. Again, this is to test your judgement. A person that's drunk will have an altered sense of time. I've seen him bust people, and the 30 seconds on his wristwatch will vary anywhere from 15 seconds to almost three minutes to the suspect.

So you may laugh at how "low tech" that field sobriety tests are, but you'd be amazed at how reliable they really are. That is why the cops will perform multiple tests. It is to "cross check" and come to a reasonable suspicion.

Plus, a lot of drunk drivers get caught because of the manner in which they drive. Of course there is the obvious weaving all over the road, driving on the wrong side of the road, driving into trees, etc. But you're actually more likely to draw attention if you think you're going to stay in the right hand lane and go at the speed limit.


Think about it. How many grannys drive sports cars or trucks (or whatever) at 2AM on a friday or saturday night?

Answer: none

The cops know this and he will assume that you are driving that way in an attempt to avoid getting caught for something.

If you want to drive drunk, and reduce your chances of getting pinched, then the best way to do it is in the center lane, and keeping up with the flow of traffic.

of course if you are so drunk that you cannot even stand, then you have no business getting anywhere near a car. And if you get the matching bracelets, then you deserve it.
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:19 pm

"of course if you are so drunk that you cannot even stand, then you have no business getting anywhere near a car. And if you get the matching bracelets, then you deserve it."

I couldn't agree with you more.
 
Nik
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:33 pm

"Seemed a little bit...how should I phrase it?.....like the run around. Claim that the US is a polluter and not green, then don't require pollution control technology on their automobiles."

Just because it seems strange to you doesn't mean that it is...the numbers don't lie. The US pollutes much more than the EU-countries per citizen. That is a fact!

http://www.oecd.org/pdf/M00019000/M00019556.pdf
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:48 pm

Banco said:

As far as I understand it, the US is both best and worst

This is a great point. When I write my great multi-volume book called "Europe v. USA: Similarities and Differences" it will have one chapter on how America is a land of extremes: rich/poor; pretty/ugly; heavy drinker/Baptist preacher. Europe has more of a middle ground: not so much rich, but not so much poor, etc...

you'll find a pub every 200 yards anyway,

Yes, besides the fact that a British king introduced the concept of disposable wives to the world, this is the 2d best part of the UK.

JetService: I never realized the practical uses of having a kid like you've found. I thought women were just trying to steal my sperm to entrap me somehow, or for decoration. Now I see: kids can aid in drinking! Great news!

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Adam84
Posts: 1368
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Sun Apr 14, 2002 3:00 am

Gas is extremely low in the US right now but it is going to keep rising throughout the summertime. Right now in the bay area it around $1.75/gal for the cheap stuff.

Like needing 2 cars to have 2 breadwinners. Umm, can we say public transit. Me and my significant other both have jobs, but only one car. I carpool in the morning and take the bus home in the afternoon. Its nice because if I drove I would have to spend about $50 a week on parking alone.

Also taking the bus home in the afternoon is about 30 minutes faster then if I drove.

FlyBoeing: Yes you may have use of a SUV, but most people cannot even justify driving these mammoth hogs.

By the way. Yes I do drive a vehicle on the weekends and carpool in the morning. But between the two of us we use about 10 gallons of fuel every 2 weeks.


 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Sun Apr 14, 2002 3:21 am

Nik, thats because we have bigger distances, we rely on our cars and there is more of us than in any given euro country. And Public Transportation in the USA? Are you kidding me??????? And no one here wants to drive a freakin 1.0L 80hp Fiat Punto for gods sake.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Sun Apr 14, 2002 3:24 am

Rogue, kids are awesome! By age 3 they even fetch beers for you out of the refrigerator on the weekends. By 4, they can begin distinguishing brands. And all the while they won't say, "So how many is that now?" God love 'em!!!!
"Shaddap you!"
 
Nik
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Sun Apr 14, 2002 4:12 am

LOT767-300ER,
"...we rely on our cars..."

I am aware of that...

"And Public Transportation in the USA? Are you kidding me?"

I just wish Americans didn't insist on wasting resources and polluting.

"And no one here wants to drive a freakin 1.0L 80hp Fiat Punto for gods sake."

I wouldn't want to ever be seen in an SUV.

"and there is more of us than in any given euro country."

The OECD numbers are per capita.......
 
Adam84
Posts: 1368
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Sun Apr 14, 2002 5:46 am

Yes public transit out in the sticks may be nonexistent. But that is not a valid excuse for the people in the large urban areas.

Look at San Jose. Traffic is off the chain even though the majority of the business are within walking distance of the light rail or bus service. You can go pretty much anywhere on the local buses or light rail. But do people ride them? Nope.

Some people should just try the bus sometime. I though I would hate it. But personally I love it. I dont have to deal with idiot drivers, I dont have to sit in traffic, I dont have to pay for parking, and I have been less stressed.

Not to mention the money I save. With my Ecopass it costs me $.25 to ride the bus home each day.
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Sun Apr 14, 2002 5:53 am

I know why I don't like buses. I always get the village idiot / drunk sitting next to me.



 
Nik
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Cost Of Fuel

Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:59 am

In Copenhagen 27% of the commuters who go to the city center use public transportation (34% go by bike!).

Just offering buses or trains usually isn't enough....you have to make it difficult or expensive to go by car. In CPH the price for parking has been raised, and in the new Ørestad-area only one parking space per 200 square meter office floor is established. On top of that of course having a car is very expensive; fuel prices are high and when you buy a car you pay about 180% in taxes.

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