bambicruz
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 12:35 pm

Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:42 am

The greatest empires troughout times were:
British empire
Arab empire
Ottoman empire
French empire

can you think of more ?
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:44 am

The Roman empire, Greek empire.

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
LufthansaUSA
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 10:12 am

RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 6:26 am

The Greek empire was hardly an empire, more a civilization. As for the French, I don't think they had one of the greatest empires by any means.
 
roguetrader
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 7:51 am

I had a professor that said that the Holy Roman Empire was very badly named because it was not Holy, not Roman, nor an Empire... Just a bunch of places the Romans claimed they had control over.

Anyway, I think the Spanish empire is often under-recognized in importance. Really, the Americas are only a two-language hemisphere: English and Spanish. If you think about that compared to anyplace else in the world, its truly amazing. It also tells you a lot about history.

Of course I know Portuguese (not a bad empire either for such a tiny country) is spoken and some French, but obviously you can tell that at one time the fight for world dominance was a race between Spain and England: and we're still living with the results of that race with the language division in the Americas. Its very interesting.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Hepkat
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 7:58 am

Oh my God, where to start? You had the Japanese, the Chinese, the Mongolians, the Aztecs, the Babylonians, Phonecians, and several more from way back when. Closer to modern times you had the Spanish, which WAS a huge and brutal empire, the Romans, the British, the Austrian (a bit controversial though), and in Africa we had the Egyptians, the Ethiopians, and a few other conquering tribes. And finally, today we have the American.

We could spend hours making a list and debating their merits.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:07 am

Arab empire?

Never knew there was an arab empire.

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:08 am

US commercial empire muahahaha Big grin
 
mls515
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:17 am



The McDonald's Empire!

The Microsoft Empire!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:23 am

Add Coca Cola to that list then!!
In Arsene we trust!!
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:33 am

Actually I think the modern corporate empires deserve some thought or discussion. The large multi nationals have sales each year that are the same size or bigger than most countries. For instance, the revenues of Exxon equal or exceed the Gorss Domestic Product of Greece, and Greece is 10 million people, a member of the EU, etc...

So, should the corporations have seats on the UN? They are obviously more powerful than many nations, and this could lead them to being used as a UN tool, and perhaps even some UN governance imposed on them. Obviously, its not possible, but its worth thinking about something in that direction: that many companies are more influential than many countries.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Metwrench
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 9:35 am

The "Klingon Empire" bar none!!!!!!



Otherwise, the "British Empire" lives on, aka, the United States.
 
bambicruz
Posts: 289
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Arsenal@LHR

Sun Apr 21, 2002 10:10 am

read this
It was the Muslims from Arabia, nomads and settled people alike, whose invasions in the 6th and 7th cent. widely diffused both the Arabic language and Islam. They founded a vast empire, which at its height stretched from the Atlantic Ocean on the west, across North Africa and the Middle East, to central Asia on the east. The Arabs became the rulers of many different peoples, and gradually a great Arab civilization was built up. Although many of its cultural leaders were not ethnically Arabs (some were not even Muslims, but Christians and Jews), the civilization reflected Arab values, tastes, and traditions. Education flourished in the Islamic lands, and literature, philosophy, medicine, mathematics, and science were particularly developed by the Arabs. At the same time in all the provinces of the huge empire, except in Persia, Arabic became the chief spoken language. The waves of Arab conquest across the East and into Europe widened the scope of their civilization and contributed greatly to world development. In Europe they were particularly important in Sicily, which they held from the 9th to the late 11th cent., and the civilization of the Moors in Spain was part of the great Arabic pattern. Christian scholars in those two lands gained much from Islamic knowledge, and scholasticism and the beginnings of modern Western science were derived in part from the Arabs. The Arabs also introduced Europe to the Greek philosophers, whose writings they had already translated into Arabic. The emergence of the Seljuk Turks in the 11th cent. and of the Ottoman Turks in the 13th cent. ended the specifically Arab dominance in Islam, though Muslim culture still remained on the old Arab foundations.

So yes there was an arab empire.  Wink/being sarcastic

and i'm not talking about those crazy fanatics nowdays
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Guest

RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 10:13 am

the Mongols they had the largest.
 
JetService
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 10:33 am

Anyone mention the late Soviet Empire?
"Shaddap you!"
 
Metwrench
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 10:38 am

Jet, no. No one did.

Just what is that? Excuse me me while I swat this fly buzzing around my room.
 
JetService
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 10:50 am

Metwrench, its what Europe would be part of if it weren't for the United States! heeheeHEEEEEEEEE (ducking an running)
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 11:27 am

The British Empire. There was once a famous proverb that my grandfather told me aboot; "The Sun Never Sets on the British Empire."
 
carmy
Posts: 590
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 12:26 pm

I think all you guys have forgotten that the largest empire the world has ever seen was the Mongol Empire. It stretched all the way from Mongolia today to Turkey.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest Empires

Sun Apr 21, 2002 1:17 pm

I think if you're looking for long-term influence, then the Roman Empire and the British Empire were the greatest of all time. The Roman Empire first spread "civilization" if you will, over a vast expanse-it's reach can still be seen all over Europe and the Mediterranian. And for worldwide influence, you only need to look at the British Empire, and the nations it spawned: the U.S., India, Canada. It was truly the most expansive empire in the history of the world-from one end of the globe to another.
 
Guest

RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 2:47 am

So, should the corporations have seats on the UN? They are obviously more powerful than many nations, and this could lead them to being used as a UN tool, and perhaps even some UN governance imposed on them. Obviously, its not possible, but its worth thinking about something in that direction: that many companies are more influential than many countries.

This is all well and good....but using your example of Exxon. Exxon makes the vast majority of its revenues within the domestic American market (and limited revenues thru its overseas Esso subsidiaries). America already has a seat in the UN.

But assuming that just because a company may have larger revenues than some countries have GDP doesn't mean that it has more influence than those countries. With Greece and the problems surrounding that country, just how much influence would Exxon be able to exert over problems of Albania, Macedonia and the Balkans? Zip I would say.

Plus would you want a company such as Exxon which has such scant regard for the environment on any decision making committee?
 
PH-BFA
Posts: 444
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 3:16 am

And how about the Dutch Empire?????? Don't forget that New York, Suriname, Indonesia(and more)where once a part of our empire  Smile But we are still a great empire, I mean don't underestimate the fact that the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba are still part of it Big grin

PH-BFA
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:22 am

Alpha 1

Add australia, new zealand, hong kong, singapore to that list.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:41 am

Arsenal, you're absolutely correct. Thanks for adding them for me.
 
Spaceman
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:46 am

Hong Kong is no longer part of the British empire. It is part of China. ie. Hong Kong China. Get your facts straight.
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:54 am

Id say the biggest empire which touched the most amount of people is the US commercial empire....It has changed probably more peoples lives in more than one way than any other empire before it.
 
Lowsonboy
Posts: 269
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:33 am

Spaceman: Hong Kong is no longer part of the British empire. It is part of China. ie. Hong Kong China. Get your facts straight.

Neither is Australia or New Zealand. But like Hong Kong, they USED to be. Think before you post!  Smile

 
cba
Posts: 4228
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:35 am

It's all about the Mongolian Empire! Nobody could mess with Ghenghis Kahn. Don't forget the Russians either.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:42 am

What about Memnar's Empire in the "Scorpion King"?  Laugh out loud

*wrinkles eyebrows in Rock fashion*
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roguetrader
Posts: 1404
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 1:31 pm

PH-BFA,

Thank you for reminding of us that Holland was once a great empire.

Did you know that The Netharlands diplomatic mission to the United States is a favorite of the Bush family?

The Netherlands and their leaders are highly regarded among US Presidents in general, and the Bush family in particular. Although little known, the US Preisdency considers the Netherlands a true friend, well beyond what Holland's size would otherwise derseve.

My sincere hope is that The Netharlands considers stongly its relationship with the United States whenever it is thinking about the future.

kind regards,

RogueTraser

 
Metwrench
Posts: 715
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 1:56 pm

The Netherlands could be the 51st State.

Think about it, you could do worse, like join the EU.
 
User avatar
yyz717
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 2:20 pm

Sounds to me like Rouge-trader (our DFW lipstick salesman) is a Dutch-American with rose-coloured glasses. Or maybe he fell in love in the red-light district in AMS one time. There is no special rel between the US and the Netherlands.

There IS however a powerful axis between the US and Burkina Faso (nee Upper Volta).

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Banco
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:21 pm

The British Empire is the only one in history that was voluntarily dissolved.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:02 pm

Post British Empire, a lot of countries (especially African) have gone down the pan when left to run themselves. Whilst life may not have been perfect under the Brits I think there are more than a few countries who's population regret their passing.
 
Krushny
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:27 pm

We can say that China is the Empire that has lasted longer.
In some moments in history, you could say there was an Indian Empire, for example the Maurya kingdom(which covered today's India, Pakistan, Bangla Desh, Afganistan plus some ex-Soviet republics), or the Mongols.
Japan is ruled by an Emperor.
And what about the Empire of Trebisonda??
 
go canada!
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RE: Greatest Empires

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:55 pm

the japanese empire cannot be considered for being great, invading china and the human rights abuses int he 2nd world war discount any greatness.

int erms of lasting impact it has to be the romans and the british empire, the roman emprie changed europe forever.

the british empire helped change the world and the fact si that the commonwealth still exists, even if it is a bit useless, but the fact is that a small island in north west europe managed to rule 1/4 of the world and influences decisions today that no other small country can do, even though the empire has crumbled, british influence in the world is still quite large.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
roguetrader
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RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 1:28 am

The British Empire is the only one in history that was voluntarily dissolved.

Banco, what are you smoking?
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
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RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:22 am

Your point is, RogueTrader?

Name me another one that was.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
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RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:40 am

Banco,

You know I normally like you so don't get too hot about this.

Did the Brits voluntarily give up the most valuable part of their empire: the American colonies?

I don't think Britain voluntarily gave up India, but were more or less forced out peacefully.

I don't know the full history of the African colonies, but weren't most of them given up only because of local unrest, local demand for self-rule?

I just don't think its accurate to say Britian 'voluntarily' gave up their empire. In many cases, they allowed the members of the empire to leave peacefully, but I think in most examples they would have rather kept the colony as opposed to let it go: this is not voluntary.

kind regards,

RogueTrader



 
us330
Posts: 3409
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RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:42 am

Probably McDonald's. They have a presence on every continent except for Antartica.
 
PH-BFA
Posts: 444
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RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:49 am

'There is no special rel between the US and the Netherlands'

Well I do think the Second World War made our relation with the USA much stronger. We must never forget all those people from the USA(and ofcourse the other allies) who died for our freedom in WW2, for wich we are really grateful. And ofcourse quite some people in the USA have Dutch roots(btw. In our street lives an American who is a helicopter pilot here in the Netherlands, a really nice person). I think Europe and the USA do have special ties, for example all white americans came from Europe(or their grand(grand etc.)-parents did(indians where natives, afro-americans came from Africa etc.).

PH-BFA

 
174thfwff
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RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:55 am

Talking about the British, they never wanted to give up anything. Gandhi was influencing the Indians to the point where Non-violence/non Corporation was the only answer from the Indian civilians. The British couldn’t regain that colony.
Also the American Revolution, the British fought very hard to keep a standing in the Americas. French and Indian War to an extent too.
Please anyone correct me if I am wrong here.

Peace in
-174th
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
Banco
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RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:07 am

I wasn't getting hot under the collar RT, just asking (a little sarcastically, I'll admit) for you to clarify!

OK, let's go through it. The American colonies - no argument, but realistically that was right at the start of British Imperial expansion so can be discounted from the point.

Now the rest of it is to some degree open to debate, but one thing that came to light relatively recently (in a book, and I can't remember what it was called or I'd gladly offer you a link) was that the civil service were putting together a proposal for the dissolution of the empire in the 1890's. In other words at what could be called the height of empire. This proposal actually outlined the process by which it would occur, and in the event was latterly adopted as a blueprint by successive governments and proved to be reasonably accurate. It's fascinating to learn that plans were in place that early on.

It is certainly true that by the 1930's it had become apparent that the empire was unwieldy and a serious drain on British resources. Of course, the war did much to accelerate that. Nevertheless, the process of dismantling the empire was already well under way, with dominion status (i.e. self-rule) being granted to Canada and Australia in the 19th and very early 20th centuries. As for India, it was accepted that independence was inevitable and desirable, the issue was the timetable. Understandably, with hindsight, the British were reluctant to proceed with independence whilst a war was still being fought in Burma, and the period after the war was a time when the system of independence was being decided.

In Africa the land-grab of the 19th century was reversed as soon as it was practicable to do so, which in reality meant the 1960's.

In all this, the British were not kicked out of any country - in the manner of, say, France - and independence was in fact effectively forced on some countries that were less than keen.

I wouldn't dream of proclaiming that all was sweetness and light, there were alays problems, but nevertheless, the dismantling of the British Empire was largely at the instigation of the British themselves and generally withdrawal was with honour.

See what I mean, now? By all means disagree with me, I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
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RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:35 am

Banco,

Fortunately for you and the rest of the internet world I have hours to spend while at work to review your lengthy diatribes about the history of the British empire.

It is interesting, I guess, that the British empire was dismantled in an orderly way and with- in most cases - not much violence. I'm still not sure I'd call this 'voluntary', but perhaps maybe 'cooperative'.

I mean, lets face it, Canada is just embarassing anyway- its no surpirse that Britain was trying to figure out a way to loosen the ties with that God-forsaken frozen tundra as well as with the other low-rent members of the empire.

Everythings perfect in hindsight, so I can say now that Britain could have kept its empire if it would have eliminated that master/slave/ruling class/ruled mentality they used. I think that in the case of America, perhaps India and elsewhere, if Britian treated these places as equals to Britain, they would have chosen to stay with the empire.

For instance, if the US adds another substantial territory, it will be eligible for statehood = immediate equal status to everyone else. No superior/inferior relationship that I think drives the natives crazy.

kind regards,

RogueTrader



 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:49 am

Now look, RogueTrader, if you want to ingratiate yourself with me, you really should have a pop at the Aussies rather than the Canadians. The Canadians have always been rather good to us, whereas the Aussie ingrates merely come over here to work in our pubs (Can you imagine? They have no concept of how real beer such as "bitter" is stored - this is a crime against humanity as I'm sure you will agree) as well as merrily stuffing us at just about every sport we've ever invented.

As for the idea about equal status: Lovely thought, but it was an "empire" after all! Big grin Whilst allowing nations to have back their country which we took from them in the first place might not go down as one of the most selfless acts in history, my point was that it was essentially well-handled, and well-intentioned. But the idea of equal status is being tried - it's called the Commonwealth, God bless it. This does have a fundamental strength in that the Australians can't beat us. Or at least it did until some fool came up with the idea of the "Commonwealth Games", thus allowing the convicts to smirk about their sporting superiority yet again.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
BCal Dc10
Posts: 695
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RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:12 am

well if you watched Australia Uncovered last night on Sky One, I think you'll find there's rather alot of us over there (I used to live in Australia and loved it) and we're causing chaos...  Big thumbs up

Rule Britannia!
 
Guest

RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:25 am

The most fascinating empire of all (to me, anyway) was the Russian Empire, later the Soviet. No country has captured my interest and held it than this turbulent, diverse and compelling nation.
 
Guest

RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:31 am

Hey RogueTrader, so Canada is nothing more than an embarrassing large mass of Tundra? How nice, and yes, let's not forget that this "frozen piece of Tundra" welcomed thousands of your countrymen into our homes and hearts after being diverted to Canadian airports on September 11th. Mind you, I shouldn't be surprised at your typical ignorant Amercian comment.
I suppoose it's not for nothing that the U.S. ranks in the top 5 illiterate nations in the Western world. No joke.
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:36 am

I thought the Commonwealth Games was the sole contribution of the 'Commonwealth' to world society, I mean, what exactly is the point of this arrangement? So other countries can borrow your queen -for money decoration- and sometimes your flag because they can't come up with their own? I honestly don't see why any self-respecting country would agree to such nonsense.

Sorry, I find Canada much more boring and parasitic than Australia, although both countries do have a lot of useless empty space. Actually, I'm hoping the French speaking Canadians decide to rebel and start their own country just so something interesting will happen there - for the first time in 18,000 years.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Greatest Empires

Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:40 am

Canadi>n boy,

Calm down - I'm just teasing. You don't have to take me seriously.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Guest

RogueTrader

Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:54 am

You want to talk about Parasitic?? You want to talk about embarassing, the way you described Canada? Then look no further than your own backyard! The balls you have to cast judgement over my beautiful nation! Have you ever stepped a foot inside Canada?
Have you ever spent time in this wonderful and beautiful country, and gotten to know its amazing people? And YOU work in I.T. for an airline? Buddy, get yourself a pass and fly here and open your bloody eyes and ears. You will be more than pleasantly surprised. I don't know why, why why why I even bother to respond to this typical American ignorant bullshit. I have many relatives and friends in the U.S., people who are enlightened, educated (apparantley in the minority), and fully aware of how beautiful and delightful our nation of Canada is. Yes, we have our problems. Yes, there is room for improvement here, but show me a nation that does not stand room for improvement, especially including YOURS. (ie foreign policies).

Why don't you get your bushwhacked head out of "Texas" (God!, I shouldn't be surprised at all to learn you're from THERE), and educate yourself about your wonderful neighbour to the north, the neighbour, by the way, who is your largest trading partner in the world
(USD 1 Billion dollars per day). The nation that (as I stated in an earlier reply) took in your stranded countrymen on Sept 11 and gave them food, shelter, and the support of a good and caring neighbour.

Alas, I'm not going to waste any more time on the like s of you. I changed my mind about your travelling here to experience Canada for what it truly is. "Yankee stay home!".

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