Scotty
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Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:42 pm

Greetings to all our friends in England. Happy St. George's Day. Fly your national flag with pride and try to forget the fact that the BBC has just spent the last two hours trying to forge that elusive but apparently irrevesible link between the ancient cross of St. George and football hooliganism.

To me, England is the following

Seaside holidays
the Tube
London
Mersey ferries
Spotting at MAN/BHX/LHR
The London Marathon
Photographing ferries at Dover
Tower Bridge
Cream teas
Happy memories of living there for two years
Good piss ups with friends
lots of other things

What does England mean to you, especially if you are English?

and good luck in the World Cup. (Jeez Kirky, I must be smokin something bad)

Scotty
 
eal401
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 5:16 pm

the BBC has just spent the last two hours trying to forge that elusive but apparently irrevesible link between the ancient cross of St. George and football hooliganism

Have they really? When? Where?

Another fine attempt by the BBC to p*ss as many people off as they can!
 
GDB
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 5:20 pm

You wait, Channel 4 are starting a two-part doc on soccer violence tonight, 'Football's Fight Club', a trailer showed mostly footage from the 70's, so it won't be only English fans.
 
gkirk
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 5:52 pm

Scotty, yeah you have been smoking somethin daft  Wow!
I suppose, they have kept us humoured, what with the Sven story and all that  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:05 pm

As far as I can recall, the racist thugs have tended to appropriate the Union Flag, rather more than the Cross of St George.

Of course it is still easier to get a pub hours extension on St Patrick's Day than it is on St George's day in England. I think this may be changing, the English are now more willing to celebrate their Englishness above their Britishness.

I'm both happy and sad about this, but it has been noticeable at England football matches in the last seven or eight years that the number of Union Flags has declined dramatically (as it should really, I've no idea why it was so popular in the first place) and the number of Cross of St George flags has risen accordingly.

I thank our friends north of the border for their kind words. Long Live Scotland and England! Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
BCal Dc10
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:46 pm

One of the problems is that Johnny Foreigner doesn't know what it is or means.

When attending the Last Night of the Proms thingy in Hyde Park last summer we were all waving the Cross of St George and some Americans came up to us and asked us why people were waving that red and white flag and not the Union Jack - we explained that it was the Cross of St George and was the flag of England. They didn't even realise that England had its own flag.

I for one am pleased its use is becoming more and more widespread, and wish that more public buildings in England would fly it, as happens in Wales and Scotland. IMO.

Happy St Georges Day...
 
Banco
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:50 pm

"I for one am pleased its use is becoming more and more widespread, and wish that more public buildings in England would fly it, as happens in Wales and Scotland. IMO"

Really? the Scots and Welsh fly the Cross of St George on their buildings? Bloody hell, the empire ain't dead yet! Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
gkirk
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 7:36 pm

The only cross of St George Ive ever seen in Scotland, was getting burned!
No joke  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Scotty
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:08 pm

A poll published yesterday carried out by MORI shows that support for the creation of an English Parliament is running at 47% across the UK. This is compared to only 25% who believe in Blair's wee regional cooncils in England-which are never going to happen anyway

Why should Scotland and Wales have Parliaments of their own and the English still have to put up with Scots MPs, out to protect their withering responsibilites, viting on issues which dont concern them? Get out and wave the flag, like we had to do for nearly twenty years at least. England deserves better than the outdated House of Commons

Scotty
 
Banco
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:12 pm

I haven't seen that - how interesting. I'd love to know the breakdown of that i.e. how the Scots and Welsh felt about it. I wouldn't be surprised if support was higher in those two countries than in England.

Oh, by the way, isn't St George the patron saint in Turkey as well?

Finally, before anyone pipes up about George being a corrupt civil servant, that is a common misconception. THAT George was a Bishop in ancient Rome, not the St George who we know was martyred but very little else.

Although he probably didn't slay a dragon.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Scotty
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:16 pm

Support in Scotland and England was 47% and in Wales it was 51%

Aye he did - at Dragon Hill in Wiltshire. I know for certain cos I've stood on the spot where the dragons blood fell on the ground (allegedly!!) and where, it is said, that the grass will never grow.

Scotty
 
Banco
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:19 pm

Grass won't grow at Sellafield either, that's no proof... Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Scotty
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:21 pm

Maybe there's a dragon in there as well
 
Banco
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:23 pm

You could be on to something. After all there was no grass outside Downing Street when Thatcher was PM...
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Scotty
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:26 pm

And no doubt it will never grow on the spot where she was slain by Saint John Major, himself a mythical figure whose existence is open to question
 
Banco
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:28 pm

Nice one, Scotty!  Big thumbs up

She also had a (Norman) St John Stevas in her cabinet which was surely tempting fate...
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
BCal Dc10
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:31 pm

Grass does grow at sellafield... or should that be glow?
 
gkirk
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:53 pm

It does glow. I can see it from here! (near Chapelcross)  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
lapper
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:24 pm

St Who? Never heard of him.

Isn't it amazing how we go overboard to celebrate St Patrick's Day, but nothing for our own patron saint?
 
Banco
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:40 pm

Lapper, for the last couple of hundred years the English subsumed their identity within the British. It was a kind of Faustian pact with Scotland in a way, when the Act of Union was signed. It is only recently with devolution, and the feeling amongst the English that they have been disenfranchised that there has been a rise in English nationalism - and I don't mean those racist thugs who claim to be nationalists.

As such, the Welsh, Scots and Irish all maintained their individual identities. The English didn't. Think about it, until recently if you asked an Englishman what his nationality was he would almost unthinkingly say "British", rather than English. Indeed, many unconsciously viewed English and British as synonymous, much to the irritation of everyone else.

Despite this, it was in a way a backhanded compliment to the other peoples of Britain - the English were saying that they were "the same as us", although understandably enough, that was not how it was perceived.

Inevitably, celebrations would be held by the Scots, Welsh and Irish for their patron saint, but the English would (possibly arrogantly) assume themselves as being above that. It is also important to note that the English make up by far the largest group in these islands, and therefore have never felt persecuted (some people's view) or overwhelmed (most people's view) by another nation.

Britain is a political construct, and as such has never truly offered an emotional attachment. The reclaiming of pride in England is merely echoing earlier times.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
go canada!
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:51 pm

britain as nation was constucted due to the merger of england and scotland.

the english didnt view wales as a seperate nation untilt he act of union, the aera was known as wales but it was treated exactly the same in respect of laws, taxes etc and it still is.

What the english monarchs wanted, eg King Edward, the hammer of the scots and King Henry vIII was total control over scotland, for a union which would ensure english control over all affairs, in fact the country would still be called england, not britain if the english had succeded.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Scotty
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:42 pm

"Merger" technically. In reality, the statutes of the House of Commons, the English Parliament, held sway over all matters of Government in Scotland and in England from 1707 until 1999.

Scotty
 
Banco
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:44 pm

Only partly true Scotty. Scotland was (and is) deliberately over-represented in the Commons considering the population levels.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
JetService
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Wed Apr 24, 2002 12:03 am

St. Patrick was actually a Brit, I believe (or Welsh).
"Shaddap you!"
 
Scotty
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Wed Apr 24, 2002 12:04 am

Yes that is true, however this was a relatively recent event, as was the creation of the post of Secretary of State for Scotland. Its all about sop and successive governments trying to pacify any Scottish separatist tendency.

And Scotland is STILL over represented in the Commons - I dont think there should be ANY Scottish MPs there.

lets take a small example. Fox hunting is now banned in Scotland. Scottish MSPs voted for that at Holyrood. In England, it didnt happen and Scottish MPs voted in that ballot, even though the issue is totally irrelevant to their consittuencies. Democracy or what? England needs to reclaim its democracy from the halfway house set up by Labour to appease its Scottish power base.

Scotty
 
David_itl
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Wed Apr 24, 2002 2:29 am

You can't have a jolly time in Colchester tonight. From http://www.teletext.co.uk/news/story.asp?intArticleID=37756&intarticlenumber=14&intRegionID=19&intSubsectionID=1&From=I&indent=2

ROW ERUPTS OVER SAINT'S DAY

Pub chiefs have criticised the courts for not allowing a bar an extension to its opening hours on St George's Day.

Magistrates ruled the Wig and Pen in Colchester, Essex, could not open late, saying the English patron saint's day was not a special occasion.

But Greene King pointed out an O'Neills pub in the town had been allowed a late bar to mark Ireland's St Patrick's Day.

David/MAN
 
Scotty
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:22 am

Pa..thetic

Of course its a special occasion
 
Banco
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:23 pm

But fairly normal. Of course, a few years ago, this wouldn't have got a mention - the fact that it now makes the news shows the change in attitudes.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Scotty
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RE: Today Is St. George's Day

Wed Apr 24, 2002 6:43 pm

Since it is also Shakespeare's birthday, is he not celebrated in the way that other countries celebrate their national bards?

Up here, Burns Day is actually a bigger event than St. Andrew's Day in most places

Scotty

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