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Saudi Quote

Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:46 am

The New York Times reported yesterday that a "person close to the [Saudi] crown prince" said this regarding Saudi-American relations during the Prince's trip to Texas to meet Pres. Bush:

"It is a mistake to think that our people will not do what is necessary to survive and if that means we have to move to the right of bin Laden, so be it; to the left of Qaddafi, so be it; or fly to Baghdad and embrace Saddam like a brother, so be it. It's damned lonely in our part of the world, and we can no longer defend our relationship to our people."


Does that just make you want to puke?

People question why the US supports Israel, heres your answer.

TNNH
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:58 am

I wonder what Bush/powell and co were thinking when he said that!

In Arsene we trust!!
 
prosa
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RE: Waht Does The Future Hold For America West?

Sat Apr 27, 2002 9:17 am

The New York Times reported yesterday that a "person close to the [Saudi] crown prince" said this regarding Saudi-American relations during the Prince's trip to Texas to meet Pres. Bush:
"It is a mistake to think that our people will not do what is necessary to survive and if that means we have to move to the right of bin Laden, so be it; to the left of Qaddafi, so be it; or fly to Baghdad and embrace Saddam like a brother, so be it. It's damned lonely in our part of the world, and we can no longer defend our relationship to our people."
Does that just make you want to puke?
People question why the US supports Israel, heres your answer.


I actually don't see what's so bad. While Saudi Arabia is hardly my favorite country, this remark makes it clear that the Saudis are pragmatists with a strong survival instinct. You can hardly blame them for that, even if their interests don't always coincide with America's.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
BA
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sat Apr 27, 2002 1:49 pm

Twaneedsnohelp,

You want to honestly know what I think he means?

I think he means that the Saudi's are fed up of watching America babysit Israel and let this 60-year old Israeli-Palestinian conflict continue since the US is sided with the Israeli side.

The Middle East is fed up, they've had enough.

That's what I think it means...........
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
tbar220
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 2:14 am

That's ridiculous BA, its as if you don't even read the post. You just get out of it what you want to get out of it, anti-Israel rhetoric, and completely ignore everything else.

Well lets ask you this, would you rather have a Saudi Arabia friendly to the United States, or a Saudi Arabia hand in hand with Bin Laden, Qadaffi, or Saddam Hussein?

I think the choice is obvious.
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777236ER
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 2:19 am

This is a threat, it's not actually happening. Saudi is saying that if the US keeps on blindly supporting Israel it -- Saudia Arabia, one of America's friends in the Middle East -- will become more hardlined.

Be warned America.
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Marco
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 2:20 am

To think it was only ten years ago that America saved Saudi from the clutches of Saddam...have they forgotten that already?  Insane
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BA
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 4:31 am

Tbar220,

I very well know that it is a threat to the US! I'm simply stating the reason why they are threatening the US is because they are fed up. TWAneedsNOhelp claims that this is why the US is sided with Israel, but does not realize that the reason why this person said these harsh words is because of US' strong ties with Israel which isn't helping the Israel-Palestinian crisis.

And of course, I would not want Saudi Arabia to side with Bin Laden. However I highly doubt that will ever happen since Saudi Arabia did take away Bin Laden's citizenship and banish him from Saudi Arabia.

It's simple, Saudi Arabia is pissed! They really are! This is why this person said this threat.

This is why the US needs to change it's foreign policy in the Middle East to include the rest of the Arab world and not just Israel.

That's how I interpret it. They are fed up.

Very well said, 777236ER. It is simply a threat.

Marco,

The Saudi's don't care about America saving them from the clutches of Saddam. Right now, they are fed up with America and how it babysits the US and that is why this person said these harsh words to the US.

It's simple my friend, they are fed up, and I don't blame them! The Israeli-Palestinian crisis has gone nowhere in the last 60 years, it's only getting worse. More hatred between the 2 sides, and more bloodshed between the 2 sides.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
artsyman
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 5:03 am

The arabs want America to be less one sided in their support for Israel, well maybe they should have a look at their own policys, and maybe be less one sided in their dislike of Israel

Jeremy
 
david b.
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 5:12 am

Thats why their one sided because of the US policy anti-arab pro israel. It has to change. Thats why the WTC is no more.
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Alpha 1
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 6:44 am

Thats why the WTC is no more.

I see you've bought OBL's propoganda. Pity for you. The WTC isn't there any more for one reason-hatred. You can make up excuses, or buy into propoganda, David B, but hatred is the primary reason.
 
777236ER
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 6:55 am

Alpha, are you telling me that pre-second world war the Arabs hated the US?
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Alpha 1
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 6:58 am

777236ER, what does pre-WW II policy have to do with answering David B about the WTC being gone?
 
david b.
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:09 am

Dont know about you alpha but I personally think the US should take a more balance stance when it comes to the middle east. Alpha, you are buying into propoganda too. You can come down hard on others for not supporting that country but I personally think that the US should take a more balanced stance on middle eastern issues.

Why do they hate us Alpha.......? Answer.........because of anti-arab US policies. Something you refuse to realize.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
777236ER
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:09 am

Alpha 1, let me explain. You say the WTC was destroyed because of hate. But WHY is there hate?! It didn't just spring up from no-where. As I was saying, there wasn't any anti-US hate in the mid east before world war two, it's all been after then and after the creation of Israel. Telling, no?
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Alpha 1
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:17 am

No I won't tell you no, 777236ER, but maybe you should pose that question to all those wonderful Arabs who hate the US, and not me, an American citizen. If they hate because of Israel, maybe it's they, not the US, who has the problem.

And why? I don't give a rats ass why, but when they blow up our people and our buildings, you expect me, or the US to take a more balanced approach to them? Riiight.
 
BA
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:29 am

Alpha 1,

They hate Israel because Israel dictates over the Palestinian people and does not let them live a free life like us Americans. The US at the same time is completely sided with Israel, and sends $3 billion to Israel every year. That's why the Arabs hate us.

The US needs to rework it's foreign policy to INCLUDE the rest of the Middle Eastern countries and to STOP babysitting Israel. Then you will see the hate go away.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
777236ER
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:33 am

Look, Alpha, let's be simple. Some Arabs hate the US because of Israel. Let's look at the pros and the cons:

Cons:

-Threat of attack from pissed off Arabs (already happened, 3000 dead)


-Lots of money being poured into a country which should be able to support itself (Israel boasts about being rich, about being civilized, advanced etc, how about doing what every other civilised, advanced country does and buy their OWN stuff)

-Upsetting a couple of dozen other countries (why is Israel more important to keep friendly that other countries, such as Saudia Arabia? Saudia Arabia is one of the countries stopping the Middle East from descending into complete termoil, yet the US continually pisses them off.)

-Annoying their own population (I may be wrong, but i suspect quite a lot of Americans couldn't give a fuck about Israel, especially if it's causing their own country problems)

-loss of support from Allies. (The EU and especially the UK is getting a bit more annoyed at the moment)

Pros:

-helps maintain democracy (the result? A semi-mad leader who refuses to let in the UN, despite allegations of war-crimes)

-helps keep the region calm (although the occasional Israeli offencive, and allegations of slaughter of civilians don't help)

-money given to Israel buys US military weapons (how exactly does this help keep the region calm? Is ALL the money given to Israel returned to the US, as some have said?

Any more?
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Alpha 1
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:01 am

They hate Israel because Israel dictates over the Palestinian people and does not let them live a free life like us Americans.

They hated Israel long before Israel dictated ANYTHING to Palestinians, so that's not the reason.

The US needs to rework it's foreign policy to INCLUDE the rest of the Middle Eastern countries and to STOP babysitting Israel.

Are you sayiing Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Emriates, aren't included. Seems to me the US includes most of the Middle East in it's policies. And if the US were really babysitting Israel, I think American blood would now be spilling in the Occupied Territories.

And 777236ER, let me answer what you brought up.

-Threat of attack from pissed off Arabs (already happened, 3000 dead)

So, because the Arabs are pissed, the U.S. should hang a friend and ally out to dry? I think instead you might going after some of these pissed Arabs.

-Lots of money being poured into a country which should be able to support itself (Israel boasts about being rich, about being civilized, advanced etc, how about doing what every other civilised, advanced country does and buy their OWN stuff)

The UK, Canada, Japan, Germany, even Russia, supports themselves, but the U.S. still gives them aid, and a hell of a lot of it. And Israel does build some of their own weapons. So does the UK, but it doesn't stop either from buying weapons from the US, does it?

-Annoying their own population (I may be wrong, but i suspect quite a lot of Americans couldn't give a fuck about Israel, especially if it's causing their own country problems)

Watch the language-it's in violation of the rules here. And who do you think Americans are more annoyed at these days-Israelis fighting suicide attacks, or Arabs attacking and threatening continuted attacks and killings of U.S. citizens?

-Upsetting a couple of dozen other countries (why is Israel more important to keep friendly that other countries, such as Saudia Arabia? Saudia Arabia is one of the countries stopping the Middle East from descending into complete termoil, yet the US continually pisses them off.)

Why is Saudi Arabia-a country paying the families of suicide bombers, a country that, even after 9/11 hasn't come out against terrorism, more important than Israel? Seems to me that the Saudi's are guilty of being as hypocritical as you say Israel is. And is Saudi Arabia TRULY stopping the Middle East from cascading into complete turmoil? Seems to me they're doing as much as anyone to sow dissent.

-loss of support from Allies. (The EU and especially the UK is getting a bit more annoyed at the moment)

It's not the U.S. fault that Europe has lost its way when determining the difference between right and wong in the world. That's their problem.

Pros:

-helps maintain democracy (the result? A semi-mad leader who refuses to let in the UN, despite allegations of war-crimes)


Sharon may be mad, but to me, the Palestinians are as much to blame for his rise as the Israeli people. I'm no fan of that idiot, but the difference, I believe, between Sharon and Israel, and, say, Iraq, is that when the Israel people decide that Sharon should go, he will go. I don't think you'd see that from most anyone else in the Middle East.

-helps keep the region calm (although the occasional Israeli offencive, and allegations of slaughter of civilians don't help)

You have the cart before the horse again-the occasional Israeli offiensive is normally in response to the more-than-occasional Palestinian terror. The region would be completely calm if the Arabs ever wizened up and tried a peaceful path, as Anwar Sadat and King Hussein did.




















 
Klaus
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Alpha 1

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:07 am

Alpha 1: They hated Israel long before Israel dictated ANYTHING to Palestinians, so that's not the reason.

So occupying the country and chasing off the former inhabitants wasn´t a "dictate" to you?  Wink/being sarcastic






 
Alpha 1
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RE: Alpha 1

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:13 am

So occupying the country and chasing off the former inhabitants wasn´t a "dictate" to you?

Occupying what country? Was there another recognized nation in there before 1948, when the U.N. gave it's blessing to letting an Israel exist? Not, I don't think that was a dictate to anyone. Maybe, to some people, it was a stupid decision, but the hatred of Israel happened before there was any "Palestinian question".

And again, had the Arabs acted with any kind of statesmanship, something that is very alien to them, apparently, maybe this mess would have been solved a long time ago.
 
BA
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:17 am

Alpha 1,

They hated Israel long before Israel dictated ANYTHING to Palestinians, so that's not the reason.

Ummm......Israel has been dictating the Palestinians since the creation of the Israeli state in 1948..........

Are you sayiing Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Emriates, aren't included. Seems to me the US includes most of the Middle East in it's policies. And if the US were really babysitting Israel, I think American blood would now be spilling in the Occupied Territories.

Yes, I am saying that Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Emirates aren't included enough. The US focuses on Israel more than any of the arab countries, which is why the Arabs hate us.

The US giving $3 billion a year to Israel from tax money is what I consider babysitting.

No other country in the world gets the amount of treatment and aid that Israel gets from the US.....
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
fspilot747
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:18 am

Israel isn't a country, its a 51st state.

-FSP
 
BA
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:21 am

Alpha 1,

Yes, Palestine did exist before Israel.

Before the Ottoman Empire fell, Palestine was under Ottoman Empire rule, along with Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. After the Ottoman Empire fell, Palestine became a British Colony until 1948 which is when Israel was created.

Just because it was being ruled by an Empire or a British Colony does not mean it did not exist.

India was a British Colony for a long time, yet it was still the country of India.

FSPilot747,

LOL! Good one!
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
david b.
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:25 am

Alpha will never learn. He will kill everone in this country to save a patch of sand in the ME. Cut aid to Israel and take a more balanced stance. The violence will decrease for sure. Alpha wants Israel to take over the whole ME region and Sharon to be the absolute dictator.

Sharon is like a god to him. Sorry pal but that will never happen. Both leaders must go now because they are both causing more trouble then good. Israel can defend themselves. Leave it up to them. The American people are more worried about attacks at home not on a slab of sand in the ME.

A1 has declared war against Arabs  Acting devilish Watch out if you have dark skin you are targeted. Acting devilish Acting devilish

I may be wrong, but i suspect quite a lot of Americans couldn't give a **** about Israel, especially if it's causing their own country problems
I agree  Big thumbs up Thanks to the media and Jewish lobby for making everyone seem like they want to die for a slab of sand.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:27 am

Alpha 1,

Yes, Palestine did exist before Israel.

Before the Ottoman Empire fell, Palestine was under Ottoman Empire rule, along with Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. After the Ottoman Empire fell, Palestine became a British Colony until 1948 which is when Israel was created.


Thank you for answering my question-there has never been a Palestinian state.
 
BA
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:28 am

Alpha 1,

Ummmm.........yes there was a Palestinian state, it was under Ottoman rule and British Rule after WWI........  Insane
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:38 am

And another thing Alpha 1.

Before Israel's creation, Geography books said "Palestine" and not "Israel".

Palestine did indeed exist even though it was under Ottoman rule for hundreds of years.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:51 am

Alpha 1,

Ummmm.........yes there was a Palestinian state, it was under Ottoman rule and British Rule after WWI........


Ummmmm.....no there wasn't. There has never been a independent Palestinian state. If it was ruled by someone else, it wasn't an independent state.
 
BA
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 9:04 am

Alpha 1,

You have this logic that if a land has been under foreign occupation, it means it never existed.

I guess that means Italy is only 200 years old, and India is only 60 years old under your logic.......................

Palestine DID exist. Look at any old Atlas dated pre-1948, and you will see that the land that is now Israel was called "Palestine".

With your logic, it must mean that the Western world is less than 300 years old. And no, when I say Western world that does not mean just the United States. That includes Europe.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Stratofish
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 9:07 am

Why does that matter anyway?
The fact that someone has always been denied his/her right does not justify further denial.
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 10:38 am

You have this logic that if a land has been under foreign occupation, it means it never existed.

I guess that means Italy is only 200 years old, and India is only 60 years old under your logic.......................


ROTFL. Seems to me the country's of Italy and India ARE only that old. Before that, they were not independent nations, were they? The U.S. was only a colony before 1776-there was no America before that, so seems to me my logic is right.
 
BA
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 10:53 am

Alpha 1,

They were not indepentant nations but they STILL existed.

It was called India 1000 years ago, it was called Italy 1000 years ago.

Just because it wasn't a country, does NOT mean it never existed.

Palestine never was a country of it's own, but it DID exist. The people existed, so it DID exist. Just like all it's surrounding neighbors, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordon. All under Ottoman Empire rule, but they DID exist.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
prosa
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RE: Saudi Quote

Sun Apr 28, 2002 12:11 pm

Upsetting a couple of dozen other countries (why is Israel more important to keep friendly that other countries, such as Saudia Arabia? Saudia Arabia is one of the countries stopping the Middle East from descending into complete termoil, yet the US continually pisses them off.)
Why is Saudi Arabia-a country paying the families of suicide bombers, a country that, even after 9/11 hasn't come out against terrorism, more important than Israel? Seems to me that the Saudi's are guilty of being as hypocritical as you say Israel is. And is Saudi Arabia TRULY stopping the Middle East from cascading into complete turmoil? Seems to me they're doing as much as anyone to sow dissent.

What really matters is that the United States is economically dependant on Saudi Arabia. While the Kingdom of Saud is not right now the world's largest oil producer, that title having passed to Russia a few years ago, it sits on 25% of the world's oil reserves, vastly more than any other nation. Because of the way the international futures markets work, moreover, Saudi Arabia in effect sets the going rate for oil.
Combine Saudi Arabia's reserves and market-price influence with America's dependence on cheap gasoline and you have a very precarious situation. Under the best-case scenario, a cutoff in Saudi oil exports, as would result from an embargo or, more frighteningly, the rise to power of a Taliban-style fundamentalist regime, would knock three full percentage points off U.S. GDP for at least six months. If that were to happen today, the U.S. unemployment rate would go from the current 5.8% to at least 7.5%, possibly even into the double digits, causing vast social and economic misery.
Those of us over age 40 or so remember the Arab oil embargo of 1973 and the misery that resulted. The consequences would be even worse if Saudi Arabia fell or if it embargoed its exports, even if other Middle Eastern nations continued their exports, given America's increased dependency on cheap imported oil.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"

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