Guest

For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:09 am

This is starting to get disturbing.

On August 6, 2001, towards the end of last summer, it is now reported and confirmed that the President received "generalized warnings" about an al-Qaida hijacking plot, and Zacarias Moussaoui's capacity, in one FBI agent's words, to "fly something into the World Trade Center."

But the president did not publicize them or alert the public. Condi Rice, the President's National Security Advisor now tells us that the President couldn't reveal "all the chatter" about the pre 9/11 threats because of the anxiety the American public would be placed in. She spoke of disaster to the American civil aviation system if the warnings were made public.

What else did Bush know? We now know of the FBI alerts in Phoenix and Minneapolis on al-Qaida threats. What about the European alarms of explosive laden al Qaida aircraft at the G8 summit in Genoa, Italy or Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's dire warnings about an impending al-Qaida strike last summer.

Just on Friday the Associated Press reported that in 1999, a federal intelligence study warned specifically that al-Qaida might crash explosives-filled airplanes into the Pentagon.

And now most chilling, Friday's Washington Post just reported that the government's top counterterrorism official, Richard C. Clarke, gathered high-level leaders of the Federal Aviation Administration, Coast Guard, FBI, Secret Service and Immigration and Naturalization Service at a meeting July 5 and told them flatly: "Something really spectacular is going to happen here, and it's going to happen soon." All counterterrorism agencies were told to cancel vacations and nonessential travel. "For six weeks last summer, at home and overseas, the U.S. government was at its highest possible state of readiness -- and anxiety -- against imminent terrorist attack," the Post revealed.

But the American public was told nothing and the governmant began to stand down towards the end of the summer.

So Bush what did you know? Stop the political spinning. Stop attacking the democrats and questioning their patriotism as they demand a congressional inquiry. What happenend before 9/11 and on 9/11?

Remember the cowardly flights from one high security institution to another on that Tuesday as his advisors falsely claimed he was being protected from threats against him.

Some answers George?

TNNH
 
cfalk
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:17 am

Why is everyone after Bush? He is not a national security analyst, or terrorism expert. He's simply the boss. Blame the FBI and CIA for not being able to put the pieces together, if you like, but blaming Bush for all this is like blaming the Pope, as God's representative on Earth (I'm Catholic), for the floods and droughts this last year.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
I Like To Fly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:19 am

What did you want him to do? For God sakes, I'm pretty sure he never expected this to happen. You can't change the past. I seriously doubt there was anything that could have been done with the intelligence we knew, I'm sorry. Do you realize how many false terrorism warnings are given to him? We've learned from 9/11 that anything can happen... but before then I can't blame him for not sending a letter to every US citizen about the possibility of an attack.
-Chris
 
Hamfist
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:22 am

Agree with Cfalk...

I'm sure the same people who told Bush about the potential for a hijacking probably told him several other "possible" scenarios that didn't happen. All Bush(and his staff) can do is try to consider the most likely scenarios and plan for them. You can't predict and prevent everything!
 
N202PA
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:28 am

I've got to agree. It's ludicrous to assume that Bush is responsible for not alerting the nation of some generalized threats that they could not confirm. That is FBI/CIA territory, and if anyone is to blame here for not warning the public, they are.

As to the charge of "cowardly" flights on 9/11, I doubt that Bush had anything to do with those movements--it sounds like something the Secret Service would order. Even if he did, so what? That's not cowardly, it's smart. It's only logical that if the terrorists were targeting Washington, DC, they might try to take a shot at the President in order to create chaos and social instability. Keeping him moving around and his whereabouts secret was a smart move that protected the nation's commander in chief at a time where no one knew what was going to happen next.
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:28 am

Charles, I see your not from America and perhaps a little unaware of how our system works.

the buck stops in the Oval Office.

An American president is not a Prime Minister. He is the Commander-in-Chief. He is the top executive. All matters of this importance go directly to him and await his word. Some old guy 50 years said it correcly reminding a reporter "the buck stops here"

If our president has infortmation that can save American lives which apparently he had or should've had and if he didn't that speaks awfully poor on his leadership, he has a solemn and sworn responsability to act on it.

Charlies, Ignorance is no deffense. Yes its the FBI's problem and the CIA's, but that information goes to Dubya and its duty to do with it the right thing.

The real question is how much the Bush administration would have suffered politically if the nation didn't know it had to endure such hardships if he had acted on the August 6 infortmation, or else suffer what we did Sept. 11. But risk is crucial to political leadership. Bush's demurrer is a coward's way out.

In America we hold our leaders to terrifically high standards, but for a reason. This is where our tax dollars go. This is a primary reason we pay the government our taxes -- to protect us, and when it does not, to find out why.

TNNH
 
777236ER
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:32 am

Uh huh, "fly the planes into the WTC". ONE agent's comments. If he thought it would happen he should have informed his superiors and the FBI would have made a point of it.

To be honest, even if they did know what could they do? Put fighters into the sky and people scream civil liberties. You're fucked either way.

Not only that, but I'm sure the FBI deals with all sorts, and provides quite a lot of warnings to the Administration. It's very hard to determine what will and will not happen.

One final thing, we all know how stupid GWB is. Could it be he just didn't think it would happen?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
heavymetal
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:34 am

Why is everyone after Bush?... He's simply the boss.

You answered your own question.

I don't have one iota of doubt that the scenario was talked about long before it actually happened. Anyone who was shocked that an airplane could be used as a weapon to destroy something was a bit naive'. Of course it could. And on September 10th if you and I just happened to be discussing large, well known sites that could have been potential targets, of course the WTC would have come up as a possibility.

What is beginning to really stir my doubt is that there seemed to be elements within the FBI that WERE putting the pieces together...memos, the report out of Phoenix about Arabs in flight schools, and especially the red flag on Moussaoui out of Minessota . In fact they put so much together that the data reached the President's security briefing.

A dozen FBI agents can't alert America on their own. That takes a command decision. One that didn't come from the White House. Right now everyone is simply wondering if it should have or not, based on the pieces that WERE together.

The way Dick Cheney and Republican leaders are talking, you'd think the Democrats (and not just them alone) were claiming Dubya okayed the entire attack.

And this "it's unpatriotic to criticize the President" crap is getting really old.
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:38 am

Well in the last couple of weeks I have heard that Al-Qaeda is planning to:

Blow Up The Pentagon (Again)
Attack on The White House, Congress, National Museums, Sears Tower, Empire State Building, Walt Disney World, Cape Canaveral, St. Louis Arch and about 5693202 other things.

Was there a suggestion that they would fly planes into the world trade center? Probably. But then again, there was probably plots against countless of other targets. Did they know that the WTC would be the "one." I highly doubt it.

- KEWR
 
JetService
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:46 am

I still want to hear suggestions on what should've been done? Close down the WTC? Shut down civil aviation? Expell all Arabs out of any flight training? Let's hear it. Tell us the steps YOU would take. How long do you do it? 6 months? 2 years? 10 years? Forever? Then let's hear how Americans would've stood for any of those measures pre-9/11. Let's face it, simply sending out alerts would've accomplished nothing. What do you do different when you hear them? Just get nervous?
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:50 am

If he thought it would happen he should have informed his superiors and the FBI would have made a point of it.

Your either not reading whats written or your not understanding properly. This is exactly what happened. These reports went from an FBI field office in Arizona to a the US White House in Washington. People "made a point of it", why didn't Bush? And if he did, what "point" did he make??

there seemed to be elements within the FBI that WERE putting the pieces together...memos, the report out of Phoenix about Arabs in flight schools, and especially the red flag on Moussaoui out of Minessota . In fact they put so much together that the data reached the President's security briefing.

Perfectly said. Five months before Sept. 11 on April 18, 2001, the government warned airlines that Middle Eastern terrorists could try to hijack or blow up a U.S. plane and that carriers should "demonstrate a high degree of alertness." This was not one of "5693202" warnings, it was one of 15 information circulars sent to airlines warning of potential terrorism in the months leading up to 9/11

KEWR:

Your post is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you know or "have heard". It matters what our commander in chief has heard or knows as he is the one with the ability and responsability to act on it. You've missed the point entirely.

TNNH

 
Alpha 1
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:55 am

"The Boss" can only make informed decisions if he has all the information. It's sounding more and more like Bush and the White House got pieces of the puzzle, but not all the information. I think the men in the hot seats right now would be the Directors of FBI and CIA for 1. apparently not passing all information on to the White House and 2. For not sharing information with each other.

The Buck does stop at the Oval Office, but if Bush was not aware of all the government knew, then the blame can't be put solely on him.

I've heard people say "well, Bush KNEW 9/11 was going to happen", which is a load of manure. There were hints out there that something might be afoot, but there have been many "hints" like that before. What would be inexcusable is if there were some general knowledge gleaned by the Administration that they might fly airliners into buildings, and security was not increased, as seems that it might be the case. THAT'S where heads could roll. Why wasn't commercial aviation put on a higher state of alert? That's where my concerns lie.
 
777236ER
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:55 am

Well then TNNH, what would you do if you got that information? Not an attack, I'm just wondering.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:58 am

I am suprised GW Bush and his boys haven't blamed Clinton like everything else.

I don't see why the jerk is being hailed as a hero either?
He just so happened to be the occupant of the White House during the attack.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
I knew it would only be a matter of time before GW Bush would have to answer some serious questions.
Bring back the Concorde
 
JETPILOT
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 6:58 am

De javu..... Didn't I just post this identical topic?

JET

 
777236ER
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 7:00 am

Hrm, some people would impeach Clinton for lying about getting head from an intern. Wonder what those same people would do about this, where GWB could have possibly saved a few thousand lives......
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 7:07 am

777, good question. I really don't know what I would have done. But then again I'm not the leader of the world's sole superpower.

but if Bush was not aware of all the government knew, then the blame can't be put solely on him.

Oh come on Alpha! Sure it can. Your arguing the Enron defense. "Well we didn't know". Bullox. Sure, Bush didn't know 9/11 was going to happen exactly as it happened, and frankly we still don't know what he did and did not know, but we DO KNOW that there was a lot of speculation about what ended up happening from some pretty high up people and when your top counter-terrorism official says something "spectacular" is going to "happen soon" for godsakes you listen and act. If Bush was never told this, then that speaks awfully poorly on his leadership.

TNNH

 
Alpha 1
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 7:08 am

I think there's a bit of difference, 777236ER, in lying under oath and in not taking action based on incomplete intelligence data. If the Dems would even try to impeach the president over this, it would be seen as low-ball politics and looking for revenge. I think you could end up seeing the resignation of the head of the FBI and CIA in worst-case circumstances, but I don't think anything would happen to the prez, save a big dip in his approval ratings.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 7:10 am

TNNH, the president can say "The Buck Stops here" if he wants, but if his subordinates don't give him proper intelligence, then he cannot SOLELY be held to blame. Some of the blame can and will fall on him, but not all of it.
 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 7:11 am

777236ER:
I agree.

Oh let me guess.
He's a uniter not a divider. Or um, he's a common folk kind-a person.
He's a compassionate conservative.  Yeah sure

It's time for GW Bush to come out and stop hiding behind Dick to answer some tough questions with out cue cards!
Bring back the Concorde
 
777236ER
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 7:13 am

My point is Alpha, people were willing to impeach Clinton for basically fucking his intern. What about if GWB IS shown to have had clear warnings about a threat?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 7:14 am

Alpha 1:
TNNH, the president can say "The Buck Stops here" if he wants, but if his subordinates don't give him proper intelligence, then he cannot SOLELY be held to blame. Some of the blame can and will fall on him, but not all of it.

True!
I'd say we get rid of all those scum bags!


Bring back the Concorde
 
777236ER
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 7:14 am

but if his subordinates don't give him proper intelligence, then he cannot SOLELY be held to blame.

He's meant to control his subordinates. The buck does stop with GWB.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 7:16 am

777236ER:
The buck does stop with GWB.


That was also the case with Richard Nixon.

Bring back the Concorde
 
Alpha 1
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 9:17 am

What about if GWB IS shown to have had clear warnings about a threat?

And that is why a congressional inquiry is needed-to find out what specifically was known. My point is that, right now, it doesn't seem there were "clear warnings", which was a great choice of words by you, in all seriousness, and is what Congress should be boring in on-finding out if such clear warning were present, or were they just disjointed pieces of intelligence that didn't add up to a bigger picture. Excellent observation there by you. But IF it is found out that there was more than just disjointed pieces of information floating out there, and that the president DID have a decent idea that scumbag OBL was planning what he did, then he'll have hell to pay. But I still don't think impeachment would be the right way to go.
 
b757300
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 9:29 am

More desperation by the left. The DemocRats don’t have anything to use against Bush so they’re going to try and blame him for Sept. 11th. If anyone should be blamed, it should be Clinton. Sudan offered to turn bin Laden over to us but Clinton turned it down.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 9:33 am

B757300:
i just knew it was a matter of time before someone on the right would try to link Clinton to this.
Why can't Little Bush accept some responsibility for a change?
Bring back the Concorde
 
gator17
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 9:44 am

Are you all kidding me? This is entirely politically motivated by Democrats, seeing as this is an election year. Even with the possibility of the slightest warnings being given out, noone would have taken it seriously and just brushed it aside. After all, "this is America, and noone would ever dare attack us."

In hindsight, we now know better, but prior to 9/11, any precautions taken wouldve simply be seen as a violation of civil liberties and the government trying to control every aspect of our lives. Besides, since then weve seen many warnings of possible terrorist actions and has the public cared? No, and it hasnt changed the way anyone goes about their daily business. It wouldve been the same on 9/11 even if the government had issued a general or specific warning, and noone would think anything of it until they tuned into CNN after the attacks have started.

So let the democrats go on their witchhunt and waste more taxpayers money, but this is simply more motivation for me to vote all republican come November, especially since theres no way in hell Id let Reno become Governor of Florida without a fight.


Sorry all, just had to vent some anger over this.
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 9:49 am

Superfly, after the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole, and the countless embassy attacks by Bin Laden under the Clinton administration, can you tell me what did Clinton and his administration do besides nothing. And as B757300 intelligently said, "Sudan offered to turn bin Laden over to us but Clinton turned it down." Now, what is your response to that, and don't just say your predictable, GWB Sucks, GOP Sucks, and all that other predictable stuff that I'm just sick and tired of hearing.

 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:01 am

National_757 etc;
OK so what you are saying is that 9/11 IS Clinton's fault?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Alpha 1
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:02 am

More desperation by the left. The DemocRats don’t have anything to use against Bush so they’re going to try and blame him for Sept. 11th. If anyone should be blamed, it should be Clinton. Sudan offered to turn bin Laden over to us but Clinton turned it down.

That's really funny, if you ask me. I think you'll find that the Clinton Administration has some questions to answer in all of this, but it's Clinton's fault? When it took place more than 8 months after he left office? Hardly. That's more desperation from someone on the right. And I'd like to see your source that The Sudan offered to turn OBL over to us. I don't recall it, and would like to see the information.

Are you all kidding me? This is entirely politically motivated by Democrats, seeing as this is an election year.

Ah, and I suppose what the GOP did to Clinton for 8 1/2 years wasn't politically motivated, especially in election years. It's politically motivated both ways. Politics WILL get involved, no matter what.

So let the democrats go on their witchhunt and waste more taxpayers money...

Did they hire Ken Starr or something? He wasted more taxpayers money than anyone in the 90's!! Amazing that a Republican can talk about witchhunt's and wasting taxpayers money after what happened in the 90's, just amazing. And it's just a way for you to try to keep blame off of Bush.



 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:06 am

 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:07 am

Alpha1:
It's almost a waste of time arguing with some of these Bushlovers.
They will only see him as a harmless angel.
Not suprising considering Bush has never accepted responsibility in his entire spoiled life.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Yazoo
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:07 am

I have to agree on one Point, Bush acted like a coward when he flew from one base to another while people were dying at the WTC and the Pentagon, I think he should've flew to New York to enquire about what's going on in there, instead he just fled like a coward.
Purple Pride!
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:09 am

 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:09 am

National_757 etc:
 Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud

Rush Limbaugh source?
Oh please!

What's next?
A Cracker Jack box source of information?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Bring back the Concorde
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:12 am

Yazoo, that was very uncalled for. How could you say Bush acted like a coward. Our country was getting attacked and he sure as hell didn't know what was going on. What, would you have liked for him to stay in Washington and possibly getting attacked by terrorists. He did what ANY president would of done, reguardless of party affiliation.

 
gator17
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:12 am

Alpha, you are right, that whole Ken Starr thing was a bunch of BS too. There is tons of wasteful spending on both sides of the party line. However, you say its just a way to keep blame off of Bush. Then tell me, HOW IS BUSH TO BLAME FOR ANY OF THIS???
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:13 am

Whatever Superfly, I bet you didn't even take a minute to actually READ what was on the damn page.
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:15 am

Superfly, you never answered my question, Superfly, after the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole, and the countless embassy attacks by Bin Laden under the Clinton administration, can you tell me what did Clinton and his administration do besides nothing., or are you just going to ignore that too.
 
gator17
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:24 am

National_757, now we cant claim Bubba didnt do anything. As I recall he sent a couple Tomahawk missiles into some camps after the embassy bombing to keep everyone happy.
 
artsyman
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:25 am

This seems so petty to me, as Bush said on the tv "are people suggesting that I actually knew that on the morning of Sept 11th, that planes were going to fly into the WTC and I just decided not to bother doing anything" If he knew what was coming he would have at least tried.

I am in NO-WAY a Bush supporter in general, but I have to say I agree with his statement.... "There is a smell of politics in the air"

Jeremy
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:26 am

Whoa! Tomahawk missles! Man, I bet that scared the shit out of Bin Laden.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:27 am

National 757, you really EXPECT me to take something from Rush Limbuagh as credible? He blames Clinton for every malady America has ever had since the dawn of time!! ROTFL!! Is he like a god or something, who knows all? Of COURSE he's going to blame Clinton-he can't talking about Clinton. He missed Clinton SO BAD in the White House!! And the other article is to believe as gospel, from someone looking for his 15 minutes of fame? ROTFL.

Gator17, if you mean "to blame" because the attacks happened, then no one is really to blame, becuase, like someone said earlier, these creeps were going to find a way to make it happen. But, if it is shown that the Bush Administration was in posession of information that should have lead to a higher state of vigilance and a higher state of alert, then yes, he is to blame for that lapse, along with many subordinates, in my view.
 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:27 am

National_757 & friends:
Hold tight pal.
I'll answer your quetion later.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
Guest

RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:31 am

Hey, that was funny Superfly, National_757 & Friends, kinda reminds me of my favorite show, Garfield and Friends.
 
gator17
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:43 am

Either way you look at it, there still isnt 1 man or even 1 administration to blame for all this. The chain of events started years ago and noone took the initiative to stop it, most likely because noone thought it could possibly happen. After all, can you honestly tell me that prior to last September, that if someone told you there was going to be an attack on America like there was, would you believe them? Some blame lies in the beuaracracy that has been in this country for decades, but more importantly, the blame lies in the scum who actually planned, financed, and carried all this out.

Anyways, I find it ironic how Congress all stood on the steps of the Capitol singing "God Bless America" with no hint of partisanship, and now the mudslinging is reaching an all time high because of the same event.
 
cba
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:45 am

First Enron, now this. The secrets about Dubya just keep bubbling up.
 
Superfly
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 10:47 am

Gator17:
Either way you look at it, there still isnt 1 man or even 1 administration to blame for all this. The chain of events started years ago and noone took the initiative to stop it....

Well said!

BTW, vote for Reno!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Bring back the Concorde
 
gator17
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RE: For God Sakes, What Did Bush Know?

Mon May 20, 2002 11:02 am

SuperFly: This is Florida, I really dont know how to vote.  Smile Even with the brand new optical and electronic voting machines we got, I gaurantee you someone will find a way to screw things up.

Cant imagine Reno would ever win though, seeing as the Cuban community (half of South Florida) doesnt have a very high image of her over that Elian deal.

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