ryanb741
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Fri May 24, 2002 9:20 pm

The US spends a high amount of its income on its military, whereas in Europe, only the UK and France spends a lot on defence. What do you think - should countries spend highly on defence, or simply remain reliant on a few countries (US/UK/France) to defend them in conflict?
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
KROC
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RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Fri May 24, 2002 9:28 pm

I think at least in the U.S.'s case, we should spend and worry less about every other country, and worry more about what SHOULD be our first priority...the U.S.
 
L-188
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RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Fri May 24, 2002 10:34 pm

Our level of spending isn't that large when compared to GNP.

Actually I do think that there are some priorities that need to be looked at that aren't when compared to "toys".
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Banco
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RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Fri May 24, 2002 11:37 pm

If successive British governments intend to continue to act as a mini-superpower, then defence spending needs to rise. Or, the decision taken to scale back our military commitments. One way or the other, the decision needs to be taken. The two new proper aircraft carriers (as opposed to the current three through-deck cruisers) due to be built in 2008 is a step in the right direction.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Guest

RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Fri May 24, 2002 11:51 pm

DO NOT count on France, no matter how high their budget is...remember that inpenetrable Maginot Line in WW2?  Laugh out loud

-Clovis

P.S. We surrender
Best Regards,
-France
 
GDB
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RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Sat May 25, 2002 12:55 am

At 2.7% of GDP, the UK is the highest EU defence spender.
However, the forces are small in comparison to many in Europe, equipment is generally good, with some shortfalls, and training is first class.
The problem the UK has is that large amounts of money are spent on deployment, usually the costs are covered by the contingency fund separate from the defence budget.
All well and good if a major deployment is happening once a year or 18 months, but now the forces are multi-deployed with problems of overstretch.
Chancellor Gordon Brown won't raid the contingency fund for every deployment.
Many in the UK are getting a bit fed up with the UK doing the lion's share of European military deployments.
Who was first into the former Yugoslavia, and apart from the US had the most assets out there?
Who led the Macedonian mission last year?
Apart from the US, who is boxing Iraq in?
Who lead the Stabilisation force in Kabul, (and no one seems to want to relieve them of that role, despite promises from Turkey)?
If the bombing had failed in 1999, who was the only NATO nation willing to go all the way with ground troops in Kosovo? Fortunately not needed in the end.
France, Germany, Denmark and Norway have provided help in Afghanistan, but who's got the biggest non-US combat units in theatre?
Then there's Sierra Leone, (preventing another African slaughter), a small but expensive presence in the Falklands, still a (reduced) presence in Northern Ireland.
I understand European concerns about some aspects of Bush's policies, but until some European NATO nations get their military act together their arguments lack credibility.
The Netherlands have done a good job restructuring their forces to be useful in the post Cold War world, they've reduced spending like everyone else, but not just by 'Salami-slicing' cutbacks.
(Provided airlift capability, a helicopter transport and attack capability for the army, more sealift capability).
If they can do, so can everyone else.
As for the UK, I think a £1-1.5 Billion on the budget for the next few years is appropriate, to safeguard projects as spending on the big ticket items, like the new 50,000 ton carriers ramps up.
 
Banco
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RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Sat May 25, 2002 12:58 am

Interesting point GDB. Especially when you consider that the US Rangers and British Royal Marines are in the mountains of Afghanistan, not natural terrain for either set of troops, whereas the likes of the Germans have specific divisions trained for mountain warfare.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
kolobokman
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RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Sat May 25, 2002 2:18 am

I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
PH-BFA
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RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Sat May 25, 2002 5:30 am

I must say our defence spending are going to rise very soon with some billions of dollars, since it is very likely we are going to buy some nice Joint Strike Fighters from the USA(and join the project!!!!!!) I can't wait to see them in the Netherlands.

PH-BFA
 
alaska739
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Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:37 pm

RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Sat May 25, 2002 1:52 pm

I would like to see defense spending increase a ton. With the post-Clinton military (stripped down from its former Reagan-era glory), we do NOT have the ability to fight a total war in one theatre, let alone two.

We have also put more emphasis on "toys" (basically bombs) instead of the traditional ground combat war. Massive bombing (as we've done in Afghanistan) makes the enemy scatter and take shelter, ready to fight again another day, whereas sending in a huge number of ground troops takes care of the enemy once and for all. But we do not have the number of troops that we need to do this on one or two or even three fronts. With the growing possibility for conflicts worldwide, our military is not prepared under its current funding. I believe that funds from bureaucratic factions of government that have absolutely no use and are not authorized under the constitution should be diverted to the military where they would become more useful.
north dakota sucks.
 
jwenting
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RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Sat May 25, 2002 3:19 pm

Don't count on those JSF orders, BFA. I have a gut feeling they will not go ahead or will be reduced even further from the ridiculously low 90 or so now planned for whatever aircraft is chosen.
Dutch defense spending is in a terminal nosedive that, unless reversed quickly, will see our defense forces in a state that is worse than they were in May 1940 (when they had to plunder the army museum to get some weapons to fight the Germans).
The AF is at 1/3 the strength it was 10 years ago, the army at less than half, the navy at about half the strength. The only improvement has been in the marines who are a bit stronger now (they gained a few mortars from the army who got nothing in return).
We've cut back too far and I fear the next cabinet will cut even further, the LPF has the disdanding of the army and airforce as part of its party program and they are about 30% of parliament with the communists/socialists another 30%...
I wish I were flying
 
GDB
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RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Sat May 25, 2002 4:56 pm

I don't really agree with Aslaska739, 'toys are only of so much use in the war against terrorism, human intelligence and the political will to use ground forces, even if it means casualties, are more important in this case.
Using proxy Afghan forces let Bin Laden get away in December.
And all the F-22's and NMD would not have mattered a bit on Sept 11th, had they been available.
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Sat May 25, 2002 5:34 pm

Well the idea that increasing government spending will increase the performance of the economy is about the only one that has survived the free market revolution.

I wish though that more attention was paid for the basics, I would have wished that a simple firing range would have been much more accessable when I was in the service.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
PH-BFA
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 6:22 pm

RE: Defence Spending - More Or Less?

Sat May 25, 2002 6:33 pm

Jwenting, the LPF has announced they are willing to vote in favour of participating the JSF project and buying the JSF. Together there are about 100 votes in favour then and only 50 against. So I don't see any problems so far

PH-BFA

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