saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 6:05 am

Ok, this is primarily aimed at the UK market but it applies to all countries. substitute two petrol companies to make it applicable to where ever you are.

I've copied the e-mail sent to me and I will give it a go.


This is about PETROL PRICES
Join the resistance!!!!
We are going to hit close to 89p a litre by the summer.
Want petrol prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent,
united action.
Phillip Hollsworth, in the USA, offered this good idea:
This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy petrol on a certain
day" campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil
companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't
continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy petrol.
It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for
them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that
can really work. Please read it and join with us!
By now you're probably thinking petrol priced at about 77p alitre
is super cheap. Me too! It is currently 79p - 83p for regular
unleaded in some towns. Now that the oil companies and the OPEC
nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at 77p -80p,we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace.... not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more
each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are
going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone
in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol!
And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. How? Since we all rely
on our cars, we can't just stop buying petrol. But we CAN have an impact
on petrol prices if we all act together to force a price war. Here's the idea:
For the rest of this year, DON"T purchase ANY petrol from the two
biggest oil companies (which now are one) , ESSO and BP. If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers.
It's really simple to do!! Now, don't whimp out on me at this point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send
it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at
least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the
message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached
over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited
and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have
been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it...
THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!
Again,all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all.(If you
don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do is
send this to 10 people.... well, let's face it, you just aren't a
mathematician.
But I am... so trust me on this one.)
How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out
to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION
people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!
I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you!
Acting together we can make a difference.
If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE RANGE


 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 6:14 am

You twat.


Want me to elaborate?



Okies,
Fuel prices are high, mainly due to tax. You want to reduce the tax? Ok....

....you have two choices. 1. Either live with the massivly reduced tax income or 2. Increase other taxes.

As for option 1. it isn't possible. The NHS is crashing and burning, schools are getting there (slowly), public trasport is a joke and with the aging population more and more funds have to be pumped into state pentions.

As for option 2. You'd be the first to shout "over-taxed!!". The UK has some of the lowest direct income taxes IN THE WORLD, despite the still rather large public industries. Yes, fuel tax is high, but income tax is low. In France (say) income tax is high, but tax on expendables is low. You have to have it either way. You can't have low income taxes and low taxes on expendables.

Well, you're kinda fucked aren't you? However, you want to protest. Is that the same type of protesting that we had a few years ago? The protests that held the country at ransome? Oh goody, some lorry firms get to save 2p in every litre. Sure, roads will be more congested due to the shitty public services, making them use half as much fuel, but that's ok right? Do you REMEMBER the protest? It cost the country billions. Outside my own flat, an ambulance (with sirens on) was stuck in the slow-moving protesting lorry formation. It was there for an hour.

Your bone's got a little machine
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 6:23 am




When are you people going to learn?

Why are the oil companies always the target of irrational "protests"?

How come nobody complains that Continental charges $2000 for a last minute ticket to EWR, yet a few weeks earlier, the same flight cost $349?

Everyone wants a Laissez-Faire approach to business except when it comes to the oil companies. For some reason, everyone wants them to be ran as though they were under Stalin's USSR. Everything else is free market.

Why don't people complain about the price of a bottle of 16 OZ Snapple, which sells for $1.29 or $10.32 a gallon?

What about Evian water, which for a 9 ounce bottle costs about $1.49, or $21.19 a gallon?

What about your cup of Starbucks coffee? What is that? About $4 for an 8 ounce cup? That's $32 a gallon!

How about White Out?

A stinking .06 ounce vial costs $1.99.

That mushrooms to a whopping $424.53 per gallon.

Look folks you want to know why gas companies charge the prices they do?

BECAUSE THEY CAN!!!!!!!!!!!

You can come up with any kind of protest you want, but the reality is that as long as you drive, we'll get it all.

You can't expect to have cheap gas AND gas guzzling vehicles AND clean air AND a pristine Arctic Refuge AND no foreign oil AND no new refineries in your backyard.


Grow up people and face reality.

You want to make a difference?

Change your priorities. Develop alternative technologies that the mass market will accept.

Or else shut the hell up.

When compared to just about any other fluid product, gasoline is still one of the cheapest commodities out there.
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 6:29 am

Wow, some thought went into that!

I suppose you are correct in the fact that tax is a major factor but don't tell me that the petrol companies don't make any profit on petrol. I used to work for Exxon at one time and the product we used to make used to generate £1000 profit per tonne and we made 95K tonnes of it per year. Yes the petrol companies need to (and should) make a profit, but they are taking the piss. Every time there is a protest over petrol prices they plead poverty. I don't believe it.
 
BCal Dc10
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:47 pm

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 6:31 am

Its a scam Saintsman...
I've had this off so many people thru email.
Its crap.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 6:45 am

Saintsman, taxes are everything. The petrol companies (directly) make very little. They're very suseptable to market changes and the product is locally quite price sensitive. So what do you think this protest will do? People have to buy petrol. If BP is overcharging, then they'll laugh at this protest when people buy just as much petrol as before. Remember there's competition. If Shell and BP and Conoco are in a cartell, then that's upto the department-formerally-known-as-the-monopolies-and-mergers-commission to deal with.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 7:05 am

If taxes were reduced from petrol,they would have to be increased elsewhere.Then people would moan about that.I smell an ILS conspiracy.Wake up and smell the (Costa)coffee people!
 
FlyBoeing
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri May 05, 2000 2:08 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 7:13 am

Wow. I feel madly sorry for Euros. I just filled my Mercury Mountaineer up with gasoline that cost about $1.40 a gallon. Converted out... that's about 25p a liter.

When will you Euros realize that gasoline should cost no more than the prevailing market price plus the cost of environmental damage?

The government should NOT be guaranteed any sort of revenue. I find it ludicrous that all the people here apologize for high gas taxes. It's as if pervasive government is somehow neccesary for people to live. Come to New Hampshire where we have no sales taxes, no income taxes, and the highest quality of life in the U.S.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 7:28 am

Our government has also pledged to balance the budget of the entire economic cycle .
 
Nik
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 7:30 am

"When will you Euros realize that gasoline should cost no more than the prevailing market price plus the cost of environmental damage?"

How do you know what the cost of the damage is?!?

"It's as if pervasive government is somehow neccesary for people to live."

It isn't, but in many European countries people have chosen that this is the way it should be.....
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 7:33 am

Come to New Hampshire where we have no sales taxes, no income taxes, and the highest quality of life in the U.S.

Nothing's free. You pay a lot more for services than we do (transport, health, education)
Your bone's got a little machine
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 8:03 pm

Well I have to say I am quite surprised at some of the comments. I didn't expect people to be so pro the oil companies.

I suppose my biggest gripe with them is the rate they make changes to the price. They always quote market forces when the price increases, and if it costs them more to buy a barrel of oil then I would expect them to pass on the increase. Unfortunately what they do is increase it pretty quickly but when the price drops they don't exactly fall over themselves to reduce it. If they didn't have these double standards it wouldn't be so bad. They are also making a lot with regard to the changeover from gallons to litres. When we had gallons they wouldn't have dared to increase it by 20 pence or so, but that is exactly what we get now when they add a few pence to the price of a litre.

With regard to other items that are expensive to buy, most of them are luxury items and you don't need to buy them. For me and I am sure many others, petrol is a necessity. I have a fifty mile round trip to work every day and there is no public transport that would get me there. Moving closer is not an option for me. I spend a large portion of my wages getting to work and my salary does not increase at the same rate as the price of petrol. You can't blame it all on the taxman.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sat May 25, 2002 8:50 pm

To be fair,the prices have come down alot recently(ie after Sep11).Proportionally,the decrease in price related to the decrease in the cost of oil won't be the same because of the tax.
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3542
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sun May 26, 2002 5:45 am

At the rate the US are using up the worlds oil reserves, there won't be any left in 50 years time. (1/4 of worlds population, using 1/2 worlds oil reserves). Why do you need to drive a 5 litre V8 just to pop down to the shops ??? or drive around in those big gas guzzling 4x4's when most of the time there is just 1 person in it ???.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sun May 26, 2002 5:48 am

Leezyjet, we were supposed to run out in the 70s, then the 90s then at the turn of the century yada yada yada. We're not going to run out soon but I agree it can't stay like this and the US has a LOT to answer for.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3542
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Sun May 26, 2002 6:29 am

777236ER,

Yes, they do, also what was that agreement that they refused to sign as well, was it the Kyoto agreement or something like that, where all the countries agreed to reduce their co2 emissions into the atmosphere, but the US refused to sign, we only have one planet to live on, so we should ALL be doing our bit to help it. Don't get me wrong, I'm no vegitarian plant loving bicycle riding hippy, but we don't need to take the p!$$ by driving round in 5 litre V8's that only do about 10 miles to the gallon, just 'cos the petrol is cheap, when a 1.5 litre car will do just the same job just as quickly and much more efficiently.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
User avatar
sebolino
Posts: 3506
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

Protest Yeah!

Mon May 27, 2002 5:49 pm

I would like to join to the protest.

I think gasoline is much too cheap. Especially in the states.
When will people understand that big motors and speed on the road will finish by killing the human race ?
Of course, it won't be too fast, we probably won't see it.
BUT we must react now. Later will be too late.

The main priority is to develop "clean" motors. Before it's achieved, we have to decrease our fuel needs. The only way is to force people (by the price) to use smaller cars (in the states) and to drive slower (in Europe).
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6443
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Tue May 28, 2002 8:36 am

The most profitable oil company (2001) had a net profit around $10bn which corresponds to roughly 0.7 pence per liter fuel they sold in roughly 130 different countries. That profit was the second largest profit any oil company has ever made in history. That kept the owners (mostly pension fonds all over the world) quite happy and the stock rate in London and New York solid. Which means that the company looks like having a future, and will, at least on short term, not go down the drain like Enron.

It also means that the retired people all over, who gambled their savings on creating and maintaining that oil company, they will not starve in 2002.

I don't know exactly what you Englishmen pay for petrol these days. If you pay 21 or 22 pence per liter, then don't feel ashamed, you paid the oil company a fair price. What you pay on top of that you can blair on Mr. Blame.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Tue May 28, 2002 9:05 am

About 74.9 pence per litre near Heathrow
 
FlyBoeing
Posts: 835
Joined: Fri May 05, 2000 2:08 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Tue May 28, 2002 9:08 am

What happened to market incentives taking hold? If we start running out of oil, then the price of it will go up. So... then we start using electric cars and all of the green stuff people ask for. Why should we bear the very real costs of fuel efficiency when market indicators dictate that we don't have to?

Gasoline will not be $1.40 a gallon two years before we run out of oil. It'll be obscenely expensive. Right now it isn't. I'm tired of all those people telling you "You don't NEED a Mountaineer!" Why should you be telling me what to do? Who decides what people need? If I want to carry a .50 cal Desert Eagle handgun around, I should damned well be able to do that too - provided that I pay the costs involved if I accidentally shoot somebody. The government should NOT hamper people's choices, it should only attempt to correct market imperfections.

One of those market imperfections is the damage done to the environment by burning petroleum products. That's fine to tax gasoline as long as the costs go towards reducing the damage done by cars. That hasn't happened. Gasoline taxes go towards funding socialist programs. The tax on gasoline for general revenue purposes should be the same as all other consumption taxes. No more and no less. Any distortion is societal engineering.
 
174thfwff
Posts: 2831
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:47 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Tue May 28, 2002 9:09 am

No go for me. I love my car, and if I need to pay $3 a gallon to drive it, so be it.

Sorry.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Tue May 28, 2002 5:04 pm

Only a tiny proportion of the oil companies profits comes from the petrol forecourts. In BP's case it was about £100 million last year, which is pretty small when you consider how big they are. Their problem is that they cannot reduce the price, because they will have to subsidise any price cut. This is deemed anti-competitive as it will put independents out of business. They have already been warned by the OFT not to dump their products. As for their overall profits, they might be large but you need to remember how huge the company is. A £10 billion profit on a £120 billion turnover is not excessive profit making.

However, I do boycott BP, because the quality of their fuel is crap, but that's a different matter.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
User avatar
sebolino
Posts: 3506
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Tue May 28, 2002 10:09 pm

Flyboeing,

You're a typical rich western consumer: You just don't care about what's around you.
The difference between gasoline and other things you can buy, is that gasoline use may give asthma or a lung cancer to your neighboors (very slowly so nobody can see it).
But of course, you live in a "free" country where it's good to injure your neighboors as long as you pay for it.

 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

Sebolino

Wed May 29, 2002 4:05 am

You're a typical rich western consumer: You just don't care about what's around you.
The difference between gasoline and other things you can buy, is that gasoline use may give asthma or a lung cancer to your neighboors (very slowly so nobody can see it).
But of course, you live in a "free" country where it's good to injure your neighboors as long as you pay for it.


Hello Sebolino,
I think that the U.S. was decades in front of Europe when it came to enacting automobile emission laws. During the 70's and 80's, Americans with European imports (Mercedes, BMW, etc) would always explain how the Euro version was always faster and more powerfull due to the mandatory pollution control devices that were required to be installed prior to importation to the U.S.

The devastion of the Black Forest to dirty obsolete coal burning powerplants awoke Europe to a problem that the U.S. was well aware of and trying to remediate. The myth of the ecology minded European and uncaring, wasteful, polluting American populace is just that, a myth.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Nik
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Wed May 29, 2002 4:15 am

"The myth of the ecology minded European and uncaring, wasteful, polluting American populace is just that, a myth."

Today, air pollution in the US is a lot worse than in the European countries...

http://www.oecd.org/pdf/M00019000/M00019556.pdf
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Wed May 29, 2002 4:25 am

You cannot simply lob grenades in the direction of the US, it is much more complicated than that. Many of the arguments used by environmentalists are far from proven, but are bandied around as fact all too often e.g. the greenhouse effect and blaming every slightly warmer/colder/wetter/windier than average day upon it. Having said that, looking after the planet would be rather a good idea. But I get sick of the holier than thou attitude adopted by the British government on this matter. Yes, Britain pollutes much less than most. Why is this? It is because British heavy industry has been decimated over the last two decades, hence there are fewer polluting industrial plants out there.

I remember when we went through the whole leaded vs unleaded fuel argument. Yes, lead in fuel exacerbates health problems in many groups, but by removing it, the fuel companies had to add benzine to petrol. Benzine is a carcinogen, affecting everyone's health. Thus we weren't much better off than before.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Wed May 29, 2002 4:33 am

It will take some time to digest these numbers, but, I would hypothosize the large decrease in Euro pollutants in this period are due in large part because there was much room for improvement due to Europes late start in cleaning up its act as compared to the U.S which achieved these goals years ago.

But I'm willing to be corrected. Anyhow, we all win when others clean their mess.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Guest

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Wed May 29, 2002 4:53 am

Sod that!! This is all down to the greed of the government, NOT the oil companies.

Example: we have fuel duty, and we are charged VAT on that. In other words, we are getting charged taxes on taxes.

It's way beyond a joke!!  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Wed May 29, 2002 4:54 am

Sod that!! This is all down to the greed of the government, NOT the oil companies.

The GREED of the government?! Surely that would mean a greedy nation. Sorry for wanting a nice NHS, nice roads and nice schools.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3542
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Thu May 30, 2002 5:57 am

" Sorry for wanting a nice NHS, nice roads and nice schools."

You are Joking right ???

NHS = Long waiting lists/no beds/poor facilities.
Roads = not much better than dirt tracks in most towns.
Schools = overcrowded classes.

Thats before we mention the state of the public transport system........
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
GDB
Posts: 12678
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Thu May 30, 2002 6:10 am

You don't fix decades of underspending in a few years.
85% satisfaction rates with the NHS, my own experience has been good, of course plenty of problems though.
But the Daily Mail don't want you to think that, funny they weren't so concerned about it from 1979-1997.
A majority of car journeys are a very short distance.
In the 1970's, it was said that there was a 'British Disease' of strikes, laziness, poor productivity.
The 'Disease' of today is expecting Rolls Royce services for Volkswagen prices, and wanting it yesterday. And there is always someone else who can afford to pay more for them isn't there?
The government are to blame for this too, taking 5 years to confront the truth about these issues.


 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Thu May 30, 2002 6:36 am

LOL GDB,I too love the irony of an economically very right-wing paper like the Mail moaning about Labour not fixing the NHS in the blink of an eyelid.My experiences at the Chelsea&Westminster,and at the West Mid have been excellent,although getting injured when I was still regarded a child helped

Sod that!! This is all down to the greed of the government, NOT the oil companies.
That's the first time I've seen socialism referred to as greedy.Nice one mate!


 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Thu May 30, 2002 9:33 pm

Bottom line is the country with the highest gas prices will probably win in the long term.

Whatever country is first out of the gate with mass produced hydrogen fuel cell powered cars is going to take over the automobile market and probably every other market related to the use of some form of energy. Unfortunatly our president Bush and his fellow republicans and democrats passed an energy bill which ensures that the US wont be that country and our auto industry can be ripped apart by Japan and Europe once again.

The only bit of good news comming from the states is gov. Davis in California who has imposed the strictest levels on auto emmisions and fuel efficiency in the world (almost 5 times stricter then anything proposed by the rest of the world in the Kyoto agreement)!! But the Japenease and Europeans are the only ones responding to the new regulations.

The country who adapts new technologies and loses all dependency on imported oil is going to be much much better off in the future. So while gas prices in Europe and Japan are insanely high it is providing huge incentives for producers and consumers to purchase alternative energy vehicles. Which will be a huge advantage in the long term.

This will be a great lessons for the Americans who continue to insist on buying less fuel efficient cars, and will continue to support the countries they fight against by purchasing billions of dollars of oil every year.

If you really want to f"#@ the oil companies dont buy oil. period!
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
Guest

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Thu May 30, 2002 11:25 pm

I believe that you should pay for what you use. It would be far better if employers paid towards private medical insurance for all their employees, rather than paying NICs. That way, the only people who would actually need to use the NHS would be the unemployed and those on low incomes/casual labour.

Same applies to schools. There was a brilliant system in place - called the Grammar Schools and Secondary Modern; until a previous Labour government decided, in its infinite wisdom, to 'dumb down' the populace and introduce Comprehensives.

As for roads - those should become the responsibility of the local authority, who should use their council taxes on them and other essential items rather than funding support groups for black disabled lesbian refugees.

In fact, let's get rid of personal taxes altogether - they are not justified. Taxation should be raised based on actual spending - we are a nation that borrows far too excessively. Therefore, encourage saving - and the best way to do that is not tax source income. Rather, have a 25% VAT across the board.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Fri May 31, 2002 4:08 am

SAS23: "We are a nation that borrows far too excessively"

Actually, that is completely untrue. British government borrowing is absolutely miles below any other European government. Remember the 70% of GDP threshold (that Germany is about to breach) as part of the stability pact? The UK is currently around 30%, and national debt is the lowest it has been since 1913! Hence Gordon Brown choking on his coffee when the EC tried to lecture him on "excessive" borrowing recently.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Fri May 31, 2002 4:13 am

The governement borrowing is indeed very low,which has given Mr Brown the scope for his spending plans.However,individual savings in the UK are very low-there is an annual 27 billion pound savings gap according to the ABI
 
Guest

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Fri May 31, 2002 4:49 am

I wasn't talking about government (PSBR) borrowing but as Donder10 says, the very high levels of personal debt (highest in Europe I believe).
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Fuel Price Protest

Fri May 31, 2002 5:48 pm

Well, that depends on how personal debt is defined. For one thing, Britain has a far higher rate of owner-occupancy than anywhere else in Europe, therefore the number of mortgages is huge. Now, if this is defined as debt (although a mortgage is not true debt) then Britain is bound to have a far higher level of personal debt than anywhere else - except maybe Ireland where the desire to own is similar.

Equally, the heavy use of credit cards tends to be prevalent in dynamic societies. But British banks are no more reckless in their loaning of money than any others. Indeed, having had their fingers burnt in the eighties they tend to be rather circumspect.

On top of that the level of pension provision in the UK is far and away the highest in Europe - I understand it is in fact higher than the rest of Europe put together. Thus, the UK is the only European nation not facing a financial catastrophe as the population ages.

Sorry if it seems like I'm just gainsaying you, SAS23, but the facts do not support your hypothesis.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.

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