PanAm747
Topic Author
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

War Question

Tue May 28, 2002 12:12 pm

Is the war of 1967 the war when Israel took on several countries at the same time?

How many countries did they take on?

How on Earth did they win?

Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
Lortab 7.5mg
Posts: 771
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 2:13 am

RE: War Question

Tue May 28, 2002 12:19 pm

You mean the Six Day War? It was a preemptive strike therefore it caught the Arabs by surpise, unlike the Yom Kippur War (1973) when the Egyptians broke through the Bar-lev line in the Sinai and almost to Israel.

My guess: Egypt, Jordan and Syria.
 
GDB
Posts: 12678
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: War Question

Wed May 29, 2002 2:10 am

The IAF caught most of the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian airforces on the ground in a classic pre-emptive strike.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: War Question

Wed May 29, 2002 2:53 am

Here's an extensive overview of the war, whether or not you'll like the source.

http://www.idf.il/english/history/sixday.stm
NO URLS in signature
 
Guest

RE: War Question

Wed May 29, 2002 3:34 am

As you guys said, it was a pre-emptive attack: in other words, Israel started the war.

Strange, that doesn't tie in with the Israeli propaganda that they are the downtrodden, hard-done-by innocents who are the victims of Arab terrorism and unjustified attacks!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: War Question

Wed May 29, 2002 4:02 am

Here we go again....
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: War Question

Wed May 29, 2002 4:11 am

hold on,

We are only meant to have one israel-palestine topic.

SAS23, do me and the world a favour and stop in the name of love, just stop, stop your facist,racist, anti-Jewish unsubstainated attacks.

Israel attacked because it was surrounded, nowdays it waits until the palestinians think it's holy and just to attack their civilains.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: War Question

Wed May 29, 2002 5:28 am

Guys, I SWEAR, if this degenerates into another Israel vs. Palestinian thread, it'll get deleted quicker than you can say "we miss you Kroc".

Either we keep this on a discussion about the 1967 war and the countries involved, as the author intended, or we post our Israel/Palestinian grievances in the designated thread already in progress.
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: War Question

Wed May 29, 2002 7:50 am

I would like to know, without bothering to actually research it myself, who the behind the scenes players in this war were, if any. I think the Soviets got kind of cozy with Egypt at this time and possibly Syria? What about Israel: had the US achieved its epic military financing at this point, or what?

A cursory review of this matter from someone with knowledge would be nice.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
GDB
Posts: 12678
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 12:45 am

Whatever your views on Israel, it's common knowledge that 1967 was a pre-emptive strike, the Arab states were preparing to attack.
The Cold War made things simpler then, Israel=The West, Egypt and Syria=Soviet backed.
Even so, France slapped an arms embargo on Israel as a result, giving the French airforce 50 free Mirage 5 aircraft destined for the IAF.
(Bet Mr Dassault wasn't too bothered though, the IAF had already cemented the Mirage's reputation in combat).
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 1:52 am

I would like to know, without bothering to actually research it myself, who the behind the scenes players in this war were, if any. I think the Soviets got kind of cozy with Egypt at this time and possibly Syria? What about Israel: had the US achieved its epic military financing at this point, or what?

Israel and the United States had a good relationship in 1967, but probably not as close a relationship as exists today. It could be argued that the 1967 war really brought the nations together.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 4:17 am

At the time of the six day war,israelis were aware of their history in a different sense that they had seen before, they were aware of the jewish republics and of the revolts against the empires that overran them, they were events such as masada which had been distorted to create a fabric of national awareness of a common history, they were reconnecting with the place.

seeing arab armies massing on their borders made the israelis insecure and they struck first, yet they would not have followed that action if they did not feel insecure.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 4:43 pm

Fire in the hole!  Yeah sure

SAS23 is on the warpath again!


And to add on to what GDB said, it was that French embargo that led to the development of the KFIR fighter.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 5:25 pm

Warpath again, me?  Big grin

As an add-on to L-188's add-on to GDB's post, it was following the confiscation (for lack of a better term) of the Mirages that the Israelis decided to steal the designs of the aircraft and their ATAR engines. This they did by getting an agent inside a Swiss company, who stole the blueprints for over 90% of the components.

Ken Follet wrote a great (and only slightly fictional, according to a friend of a friend who was directly involved) book about it, called Mirage.

At the same time, they put two fingers up at the French by 'stealing' their fast attack craft from the shipyard where they had been built and where they were being held.

Way to go, guys!!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

Go Canada! - what Jewish republics exactly??
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 5:36 pm

Ummm...SAS23...

Last time I checked F-23's AKA the KFIR fighters, where powered by J-79's not the French ATAR's
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 5:37 pm

Umm. Scratch that F fighter designation from the last post please.....

Thank You.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 6:31 pm

For many years, IAI had wanted to build its own engine components for overhauls - and the French sanctions provided the impetus. However, one cannot simply reverse engineer an engine or aircraft - you have to know the precise specifications of each component in terms of alloy, heat treatment etc.

Remember, the Mirage 5 was not the Kfir (produced in a JV with Denel as the Cheetah in South Africa) but its predecessor.

I believe that they are now looking at using the same engines that power the SU27/Mig29?
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 6:36 pm

I think you are correct on the South African Varient there SAS23. I remember reading about that reeingining program too.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
avi
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 11:00 pm

The relations between Israel and the USA in the 60’s were not even close to what they are today.

As said it was France who supported Israel in the 50’s and 60’s and the climax was when France gave Israel an Atomic Reactor (They did it so Israel will participate in the France - British campaign against Egypt in 1956).
When the USA found about it they were not very happy and the relations between the two states weren’t too well.

If I remember correctly the ground war against Egypt was on days 1-3 (or 4), against Jordan 2 (or 3) – 5 and Syria 5-6.

As said in the link that Tbar220 gave they are a few reasons why Israel started the war and not waited for the Arabs to start it.
You should understand that the main slogan in Israel at that time was “NEVER AGAIN” and it connects to the holocaust of course.

Many of the soldiers in the regular army were holocaust survivals children and many soldiers in the reserve army were holocaust survivals themselves so things were different then.
And although Israel today is not Israel in 1967, we still remember it.

Long live the B747
 
Guest

RE: War Question

Thu May 30, 2002 11:17 pm

I recall a friend (who was a Major in the IDF) telling me that in one of the wars (1973?) some of the Orthodox Jews strung up wire across the roads in their area so that Israeli troops driving along in open jeeps would be decapitated. Apparently, this was because they were breaking the Shabat or something?
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: War Question

Fri May 31, 2002 3:40 am

SAS23,

In reference to your question I meant the jewish kingdoms that existed before the crushing of the jewish revolt by the romans which ended the second temple period, it might hurt for you to know but believe it or not there were jews living in the middle east. I dont have a clue why i said republic, i can only apologise for any inference that was misleading.

I have to dimiss works of fiction, whether based on some limited grasp of the facts or not, they do not have to have the same standard of referencing and it is dangerous to assume that an accurate picture of events can be ascertained from a work of fiction, whether linked to reality or not.

Pharses in israel at the time of the war included "Masada shall not fall again", the IDF sent its troops to masada to swear an oath of loyalty, troops saw this and the link to the holocaust(see Recovered roots collective memory and the making of Israeli national tradition by Yael Zerubavel for further info or The Masada myth collective memory and mythmaking in Israel by Nachman Ben-Yehuda). The awareness of the jewish past helped create the atmosphere of fear that lead to the six day's war.

Whilst I could not endorse reading the Israeli Ministery of Defence's work on the six day's war, due to questions of objectivity, it does gives an overview of events. A good, general text is The history of Israel by Arnold Blumberg, offering an overview of events, from there a person can then go into the subject in greater detail.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: War Question

Fri May 31, 2002 4:57 am

Go Canada! - I was always under the impression that republics were the opposite of kingdoms? Also, isn't it the case that the 'kingdoms' you describe were really nomadic tribes, similar to the Bedouin of today - and that there was no fixed territory as we would regard a country?

The basic facts in Mirage are just that: historical facts. Sure, it's been fictionalised - no one was taking down the coversations of those who participated and doubtless for security reasons some names have been changed.

Plus it's a darn good read! Big grin Big grin
 
avi
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: War Question

Fri May 31, 2002 7:07 am

I recall a friend (who was a Major in the IDF) telling me that in one of the wars (1973?) some of the Orthodox Jews strung up wire across the roads in their area so that Israeli troops driving along in open jeeps would be decapitated. Apparently, this was because they were breaking the Shabat or something?

Shabat or something?

That was a good one.
It was Oct 6th 1973. At 13:55 Egypt and Syria opened what is known as The October War or in Israel, The Yom Kipur War.

Yom Kipur is the most holy day in the Jew calendar and no other day is getting even close to it.
Only very very very essential systems work on that day.
Essential systems are security, rescue and other factories that must work 24 hours. Nothing else.
There is no radio, TV, or traffic of any kind (not even a private one).

Unfortunately, some orthodox Jews did throw stones on passing vehicles.
Unfortunately they are doing it even today on Ambulances.
A few years ago a stone was thrown at a car on the Haifa – Tel Aviv highway killing on of the passengers.

Long live the B747
 
Guest

RE: War Question

Fri May 31, 2002 8:44 am

Avi - thanks for that. Yes, Yom Kippur - I should have remembered that!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PanHAM, ThomasWarloe, UltimateDelta and 11 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos