airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 1:50 pm

I think we have all seen the threads about Isreal and Palestine, whether we post in them or not.. I think most, if not all of us, can see that they ALWAYS turn into some kind of flamewar.. I say here, that they should not be discussed at all.. I just saw a previoud post, that basically says the same thing..

Quote from post : http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/222284/6/
Right now the Middle East conflict is sounding a lot like the one going on in Non-Aviation. One group attacks the other and it keeps going on and on and on. Isn't it about time we gave up on all the Israel v. Palestine posts? All they do is lead to arguments, and the same ones keep going on and on and on. There will ALWAYS be those who support Israel, and those who support Palestine. We KNOW this, I don't think there is any point to this whole subject of threads. Yes it is good to have discussions and debates, but the whole Middle East one is getting very irritating. I think all Israel v. Palestine threads should be deleted. They cause nothing but trouble in the forums.

Take a look at the rest of the thread.. someone decided to discuss it RIGHT THERE.... These threads need to stop.. They do NONE of us any good, and just end up getting locked up..

In a nutshell- BE VERY CAREFUL if you post about Isreal and Palestein.. It is wearing thin on a LOT of ppl here..

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:06 pm

AMEN Airlinelover!




BTW, which side are you on?
Just kidding!  Laugh out loud
Bring back the Concorde
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:25 pm

Chris your still a traitor dont you forget that now!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up
 
D L X
Posts: 11654
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:42 pm

Geez. God forbid that a discussion on this forum turn into an (gasp) argument.

If the Israel/Palestine posts are getting on your nerves, do what I do: just skip them.

But the idea of not discussing something because it might break into a disagreement is preposterous. Granted it is quite unlikely that any of us forumites will have a say in the real conflict, but if someone has something new and or interesting to say about the topic, don't you think it should be heard? Life is full of arguments and disagreements. I don't know when the last time someone on this forum was physically hurt by anything that anyone else said. Do you?
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:39 pm

I totaly agree. The fact is that they have become so biased. Also I really don't need to hear (excuse my crudness) about every little thing that happens there. I am a person who is usualy willing to wait for good but I have given up on this whole mid east thing. its starting to drive me crazy. All you ever hear is Palestine that isreal that. If you say one thing pro palistinian you are imediatly anti semetic and a terrorist supporter.
Just the titles of the threads show how biased they are ie: x# of isralies slaughterd by (fill in the blank).
Both sides are incredibly wrong in my opinion and I am so sick of one post being palestine bashing then some where a isreal bashing which automaticly means it is anti semetic.
Please. People have become totaly blind to the causes of the two sides. Yes there are reasons for this conflict and it is a hell of a lot more than just... Arabs in isreal want a country.

anyways... I swear I am going to have a nervous breakdown from these posts.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:50 pm

I have been skipping them for quite some time now. It's becoming comical, everytime I see a new headline about something going on over there I'll bring up the non_av forum and sure enough it is there.

It's just nationalism at work again (on both sides). The world will never learn.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 4:00 pm

The world never learned in the past, so why should it in the future?

Killing eachother is the favourite passtime of homo 'sapiens sapiens' (only species I ever knew that thinks it is smart enough to warrant saying so twice in it's own name...) and has been for over 10000 years. It's not going to stop because someone thinks it is morally wrong unless he himself is doing the killing.

Maybe political posts should be banned, but the problem with that is determining what is political as politicians get their grubby hands on everything.
I wish I were flying
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 8:05 pm

ILOVE340, no one is forcing you to read them.

Airlinelover, isn't this more of a Site Related thread?  Laugh out loud

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 8:19 pm

LY744...that's exactly what I was going to say... This is clearly a site related "topic".

And I wonder why the topic called "At least 17 dead in a new massacre in Israel" has been archived...but I don't ask the question...
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: These Threads RE: Israel/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 8:33 pm

Airlinelover. I agree with you in the fact that the threads have got out of hand, but the minute you say that people should not talk about them altogether, then, you start to limit what people can say. Then, things become dictatorship-like (*note, not a dictatorship, please understand the difference). Especially when you want new members and old ones at that to PAY to use the forums and such. Instead of saying that certain topics be eliminated, what needs to happen, is all the closed minded "my opinion is the only one that matters" people need to open their minds. They need to respect other peoples opinions no matter how "off the wall" they may think they are to start with. People should back up their opinions with facts, or well thought out takes on why they feel the way they do. Also, when someone does not agree with another, that person being disagreed with needs to leave the "suggest deletion" button alone. They should not lose their mind, because somebody disagrees with them, and instead of getting pissy, continue the discussion in a civilised manor in which opinions and arguments are being exchanged in a manor where both sides are being tolerated, and no personal attacks are taking place. I know, I know, easier said than done, but with all the teenagers on here, that are First Class Flyers, Drive BMW's and Mercedes, and their parents drive the same, and they all live in mansions, you would think they would be advanced enough to know how to carry a logical, civil discussion or debate.
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STO

Thu Jun 06, 2002 8:33 pm

And I wonder why the topic called "At least 17 dead in a new massacre in Israel" has been archived...but I don't ask the question...

ROFLMAO! Good one Toda!  Sleepy

Maybe...because it has been discussed to death, yet you STILL choose to start a new thread each time there is a terrorist act in Israel? And all it is in there are the same arguments again and again. Everyone who has wanted to has said their points, if not twice. We don't need to hear it anymore, as AirlineLover has said. ...and that's how your thread got archived.  Insane

TB
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STO

Thu Jun 06, 2002 8:36 pm

...Toda, IF you could raise new points/arguments in your posts, then maybe they'd stay..but you keep repeating the same thing OVER and OVER. Dude, we know that you favor the Israelis...nothing wrong with that.

And just for some perspective...if I started posting a thread for every time the Israelis killed a Palestinian, or rolled their tanks in, wouldn't you get annoyed? I'd be repeating my arguments again and again...once a point has been made, you don't need to make it again.

Cheers,

Beaver
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: These Threads RE: Israel/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:18 pm

Those who participate in the Israel / Palestine threads have agreed that there should be only one top ranked thread about it at any time.

If anyone is asking that these threads not be allowed, its because they're reading threads they know will bother them OR they don't want others talking about certain subjects.

I continue to learn things almost everytime I read these threads. If some people see it only as arguing, thats fine, but some of us are able to learn from even the smallest detail of these arguments.

There are moderators who can handle these threads and a few that even take part. If anyone doesn't like the subject matter, then just stay out.

There are no forbidden subjects and no forbidden opinions.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:29 pm

What happened to the simple rule of "If you don't like it, don't read it, and don't get involved in it?" That goes for the moderators as well. If anyone starts limiting what can/can't be discussed on here, you'll soon see people start drifting away from here.

One great thing-up till now-about this site, despite the fact that many of us see a definite double-standard on here when it comes to certain issues, is that there are free and wide-rangning discussion about a variety of topics on this forum. And guess what? The hot subjects in the world-Israel v. the Palestinians, India v. Pakistan, and the like, are going to be on the front burner for discussions. So why censor it? I don't understand it at all, why the Administrator and Moderators are so intent on silencing opinion on here about one or two subjects.

I tried to start a moratorium on here on the subject a while back, but it was obvious that people wanted to discuss the subject, so why fight it, and why try to limit it? I ask in all earnestness right here and not to The Administrator and the Moderators as to why it's so important to limit or even silence debate on these issues? So what if for some memeber it get repetitive-it's not the only subject being discussed, for God's sake, so why not let it slide, unless it's absolutely out of line, or in poor taste?

If you don't like the subject matter-STAY AWAY FROM IT!! No one forces you to read a damn thing on here. And to those who run the site: don't stifle debate!! That will do more harm than good, in the long run, to this site that people use to discuss some important-and some not-so-important subjects of the day!
 
Guest

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:31 pm

I think that the topic of Israel/Palestine has literally been done to death now. There are no new points to be raised .. and the ghoulish rush to get a multitude of threads online each time someone kills someone else there wore thin many months ago.

I'm all for the moderators deleting each and every thread on this subject.


VH-ADG
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:53 pm

Fine, ADG, let's start doing something like that. Then what happens when we turn to, let's say India v. Pakistan-do we do the same thing with it? Or let's say perhaps there's a war in the ME between the U.S. and Iraq or Iran-when that becomes hot, do we delete it?

Muzzling debate only alienates the members on here. Again, if you don't want to discuss it DON'T. But don't censor the debate simply becaue YOU are tired of it. It will burn out eventually. Stop being so hyper-sensitive to the issue (that was meant in general, and not directed at you ADG).
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:08 pm

I am totally sick and tired of these threads. In fact, I'm totally sick and tired of the whole Izzi/Pali crap. Both sides are a bunch of crybabies who ought to act like they're toilet-trained and get real lives.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:33 pm

I am totally sick and tired of these threads. In fact, I'm totally sick and tired of the whole Izzi/Pali crap. Both sides are a bunch of crybabies who ought to act like they're toilet-trained and get real lives.

THEN DON'T GET INVOLVED IN THE DISCUSSIONS!!! HOW HARD IS THAT?? For crying out loud, people, what part of "Don't read them" do you not understand??
 
McRingRing
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:41 pm

Alpha 1: If you don't like PROSA's post, just ignore it. What's the problem?  Insane
B==============) ~~~~
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:41 pm

I agree with RogueTrader a little bit. If you can sift through all the BS, the name calling, and the unrelenting closed minded-ness of the threads, there is very good information in just about each and every Pali/Israel thread. Why people are "sick" of these threads and think they have been "discussed to death" is because civil discussion goes right over the falls the minute 2 people disagree.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:34 pm

I say leave them out of the forum all together. They have proven to be nothing more than flamebait anyway.

I'm sure there is a more appropriate forum for the diehard Palestinian/Isreali crybabies in which to spew their pseudointellictual garbage.
 
Guest

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 4:11 am

Not being Jewish or Palestinian, I really don't have an axe to grind either way. I have spent a great deal of time in the Middle East, both in Israel (where I have many Jewish friends and a few Palestinian ones) and in other places such as the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait etc.

I weigh in on the Palestinian side of the argument because I can clearly see that they are getting a raw deal - as indeed can the rest of the world. Of course, the Israelis (and our very own A.net Zionist lobby group) instantly play the 'anti-semite' and 'holocaust guilt' cards whenever these discussions come up - which tend to instantly devalue their arguments. When it comes down to it, you have one of the world's best equipped and trained armies going up against individuals that are using stones, petrol bombs, Kalashnikovs and sticks of dynamite - it doesn't even come near a fair match.

Historically, neither side has a valid claim. There was no State of Israel prior to the time the British reneged on their promises to the Palestinians; and there was no State of Palestine, either. The Jewish State was born in terrorism and ethnic cleansing - by the Jews - and the Arabs have understandably retaliated against those actions over the years.

Times have changed, and the Arab nations in the region have signalled that they are willing to negotiate lasting peace with Israel - which includes recognising Israel's right to exist. Arafat has been condemning attacks on Israeli civilian targets for some time now - in Arabic as well as in English. Yet the extreme right wing Israeli government seemingly has no interest in peace or in compromise.
 
D L X
Posts: 11654
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 4:30 am

I like how people have chimed in about their beliefs re: Israel/Palestine on this thread, although that is clearly not the topic.  Big grin Way to read the opening post people.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 4:47 am

"Of course, the Israelis (and our very own A.net Zionist lobby group) instantly play the 'anti-semite' and 'holocaust guilt' cards whenever these discussions come up"

The so-called Palestinian-supporters bring it up more than anyone else, by far. And then, of course, they complain about other people using it.

In any case, I thought we had an "agreement" with the administration (through Hepkat, a moderator), that there will only be one I-P thread allowed at a time, and it would be archived when it reaches its natural end.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Krushny
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 4:22 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 6:00 am

Why do we have to stop the Pali/Izzi threads? It is the most controversial issue today in international politics. OK that they do not have much to do with aviation, but it is the same with all the soccer, music, sex, etc threads going on in Non-Aviation.
And it is very interesting to follow. Looking at the last events there, it is turning more to a farce. The Israelis do not even pretend to be fighting terrorism effectively anymore. They have been attacked by the Jihad and they seem to be taking no action against this group, instead they do the pathetic raid of today against Arafat's HQ. The IDF message, "you are to blame for our 16 dead, so we crush your brand new 4x4 !!! " . Is Sharon's bunch really interested in stopping terror?
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 7:38 am

Toda- that one you referred to was turning bad, so I deleted it..

Alpha 1- I don't mind CIVILIZED discussions on it, but it was said earlier, everythinhg that has been said has ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED TO DEATH.. Think of NEW points, don't let things get out of hand, and it's all ok.

TB- Right.. If I posted each time Slick Willy had a new intern, the site would have no room left for ANYTHING.. (J/K) Cya in chat..

KROC- Thank you for your input.. I do not think that the THREADS should stop FOREVER, just until ppl know how to discuss it without it getting bad..

Anyone else??

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 8:17 am

I just don't enter the Israeli/Palestine threads anymore, simple as that. They've become predictable and sometimes volatile. At first i used to like these threads, it was entertaining reading a flame bait thread, but now, the same things are argued, not discussed, over and over and over again.

It eventually wears you down and you get to the point where you say, "F**k this, i don't give a crap!

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
D L X
Posts: 11654
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 8:54 am

Airlinelover,

Actually, Israel/Palestine was the major reason I didn't want to be a moderator after it was offered to me. I would feel compelled to read those threads, which really give me no entertainment at all. I've been skipping them for months. But, I sure as hell wouldn't tell someone else what they can and can't discuss, especially to the people that pay to use this site.
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:58 am

BTW- If there was room, I would've had an expanded topic.. But, also look and see I didn't say ALL THESE have to stop.. Just ran outta room..

Chris

Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:59 am

Mcringring, it's pertinent to this topic, so why should I ignore it? What's your problem with that?  Smile
 
Pilothica737
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 1:55 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 3:17 pm

Dude I think we need to cool down up in here! All these posts I vs P are just SOOOOO annoying! It's not about just not reading them, it's just the whole seeing them eveytime I log on kinda thing. I know I know, "don't log on!" I'm not bashing anyone here, nor am I inviting confrontation. But please lets stop with these mindless A vs B threads, and talk about more positive things!
Jacqueline
 
Guest

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 3:39 pm

I'd be quite happy to have a blanket ban on I vs P threads unless it's some especially relevant news - and I don't mean just another suicide bomber or Israeli attack!!

It's interesting, but I have noticed that there are no Arabs or Palestinians (or even their supporters) on here who are as rabidly supportive (not to say 'revisionist') of their cause as is the case with some or the A.net Zionist lobby.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 7:45 pm

"I'd be quite happy to have a blanket ban on I vs P threads unless it's some especially relevant news - and I don't mean just another suicide bomber or Israeli attack!!"

Is this a joke? You started more of those than anyone! At one time a few weeks ago, there must have been half a dozen different threads by you about I-P, each one dedicated to a most trivial article from the same news paper!

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:51 pm

It's not about just not reading them, it's just the whole seeing them eveytime I log on kinda thing.

If it bugs the hell out of you just to see the thread headline, you're way too damned sensitive to begin with, for goodness sake! Again-if you don't want to read them, don't!! It's really simple. All this crap about "don't discuss it anymore!" is just that, crap! Get over it. Find topics you like, and avoid the ones you don't! Gee, that's what most of us do here to begin with! Stop making this a Federal Case, for God's sake.

I'd be quite happy to have a blanket ban on I vs P threads unless it's some especially relevant news - and I don't mean just another suicide bomber or Israeli attack!!

Stop being such a friggin' hypocrite, SAS23. You've started some of the most vile threads on here in regards to this subject-and we know you don't think suicide attacks are the least horrific-we all know that. Some of the manure you've started is sickening, but that doesn't mean YOU should not have the right to start something YOU think would be relavant, and the same is true for others, am I not correct.

And will you shut the F**k about this "A.net lobby" bullshit, already? It's pathetic; it's embarrassing, and it's so far from the truth. I could go around calling you the A.net Terrorists Lobby, and it'd be closer to the truth then what you're saying. I mean, you bring up Israel in threads that don't even involve Israel, for God's sake.

For you, SAS23, to demand a blanket ban on this subject, would virtually mean you couldn't post here anymore......hey, maybe that's not such a bad idea after all!  Big thumbs up

Again, this is getting blown way out of context. People obviously want to discuss the situation, so what is the big deal? It's baffling to me.
 
McRingRing
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:54 pm

Well, Alpha 1, in your own words:

What happened to the simple rule of "If you don't like it, don't read it, and don't get involved in it?"

Can't argue with that!
B==============) ~~~~
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:00 pm

I agree Mcringring
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:28 pm

Hey dudes..

I stayed away from most of these subjects.. Which is a good thing, belive me, I once wrote something long and harsh about the conflict, but decided not to post it in the end, cause it would do nothing. The fact is that people just dont understand the situation because they simply never lived the life in the middle east. People just get the impressions that its a just a hot spot in the world for war. If youve ever been to the region, its so beautiful... The people, the culture.. everything about it is special. And its not all about war, but its part of life there, Israelis are used to a threat from every country around it. Thats why secuirty is so strict in Israel. Now about the palastians, ive been around the "shtachem" as we call them or as you know them as "The west bank", Ive drove by them many times, We wouldent dare to turn into it because you know forsure its a danger spot. (This is even years ago before anything happend). I had family do service there and ive heard some crazy stories about the area. There was a show here in Canada, about these Israeli boys and Arab boys getting together and playing (before the conflict), they played soccer and games and they got along fine. One of the kids was saying how much he hated the Israelis and he never wants to meet a Jewish person and he will strike and kill him self if he had to (this kid was like 10 years old), Than the guy who was interviewing him said he was Jewish.. The kid didnt belive him, than fell into tears. You know, ive been to arab towns in Israel, they are on hills and the houses are just scattered across hills and its messy and theres garabage everywhere and they still complain about Israel, I mean they live there, they build these HUGE villas.. they are like mini buildings I swear! But you know, most are nice! I dont care how big there houses are or what fancy car they drive, I have to say the funniest thing I saw was a picture of a car from the west bank at a Israeli check point (with arab plates on it) and ok guess what kinda car it was? A AUDI TT, But if they are so poor, why can someone afford such a car during such conflict? But look at the situation now, I was in Israel this past summer, I was near 3 attacks, 1 bombing and 2 shootings, but I its a daily thing in the country (well it was bad at the time) and ive never seen the country in such a situation except for back in the gulf war but I was wayyy younger. I wonder if people like SAS and others who are agianst Israel, ever visited the country before. Cause I have been to Arab town to eat Humus and some Shuwama (to the Israelis in the house u know what this is), They make some great food, but why the fighting? When I used to live in Israel, my town was Israeli but we had a "friendly" arab neighbouring town, and they are a friendly town belive me. But when the conflict started, they were throwing stones at the cars going into my town NEIGHBOURS FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!, Well my town told them, u continue and lose all the connections with us.. they quickly stopped casue the town is nothing with out my towns support. Ive met many arabs some agreed with my views some totally didnt. 1 Arab infact said 1 Jewish person died in the WTC attacks, My moms friends sister died in the WTC and so did many other Jewish people and Arabs also, But first word of the attacks the head of the muslem community in NYC said it was the Jews. WHY? why would he say this for no reason at all? For another thing, about these suicide bombers if everyone says if the secuirty is so tight in Israel, why do suicide bombings occur. Theres a simple answer to this, In the beginning of the conflict, The bombers would be smuggled into Arab towns in Israel (Israeli-Arab Towns), The Arabs there would keep them until there mission was due. Now remeber these are arabs that live in Israel ok ??? Why do they do this?
My family knows a lot of arabs, one guy said that at a family gathering in his arab town, he was talking politics with his fellow family members and how he dissagreed with them, the following day he was arrested and beat, just becuase he had a different view on the conflict. And the most intresting thing about this, is that its a family member that told the police about this.
Intresting aint it?

Now remeber, im not trying to get my views across to all of you, im just giving you some details about the middle east life. And the people.
If you find this affensive than you do, what can I say, there will probley be someone who has nothing better to do than complain about this so go ahead lets see your replies..
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:31 pm

Mcringring, you're confusing not liking what someone says within a discussion you don't mind being involved in, with not wanting to be involved in the discussion at all. That's the issue here. Some poeple go nuts if they just see a thread that mentions this issue-they need to get a reality check, in my view. I may not like or agree with SAS23 at all, but I should have the "right" (I hate to overuse that word), to argue points with him on a subject that interests both of us.

If the subject doesn't interest you, or if you find you've had enough of it, just ignore it. No one should give anyone a hard time because they don't want to get involved in a certain subject. That's their perrogative (there, that's a better word!).
 
McRingRing
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:54 pm

Well, you will see the original poster you quoted just said he's sick of the threads and the "arguments" from both sides - which is the way many people feel. Some of these Israel/Palestine participants then carry their bias and anger into other threads where they are not welcome or appropriate. They create an environment of tension and hostility between certain members of the forum. So ignoring the threads is one thing, but when you open a thread that has nothing to do with politics, israel, palestine or whatever and see someone bust out on Palistinial terrorists or Israel, that's a problem - and it starts in the Israel/Plaestine threads.


I can do what I wanna do (it's my prerogative)
I can live my life (it's my prerogative)
And I'm doing it just for you (it's my prerogative)

Tell me, tell me why can't I live my life
Live my life without all of the things
That people say oh
B==============) ~~~~
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 12:14 am

So ignoring the threads is one thing, but when you open a thread that has nothing to do with politics, israel, palestine or whatever and see someone bust out on Palistinial terrorists or Israel, that's a problem - and it starts in the Israel/Plaestine threads.

I partly agree. It's stupid to bring up the topic of Israel/Palestine in threads that don't have anything to do with the subject, much as SAS23 did in the thread on Russia a few weeks ago. but don't blame the fact that the subject gets discussed, blame it on the individual memebers who do such things.
 
McRingRing
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:59 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 12:26 am

The user is to blame. But if the user didn't have some sort of axe to grind because of the I/P threads, I don't think this would happen (as much). SAS23 being a prime example.

I don't think the solution is to ban these threads. The solution is to either force the participants to act civilly or ban them from the threads.
B==============) ~~~~
 
Guest

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:27 am

Actually, in the Russian thread there was a legitimate reason for me to compare the Israeli situation. I also mentioned the Bosnian Muslims, but strangely the A.net Zionist lobby group didn't object to that!  Insane
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:59 am

Can someone PLEASE explain what the "A.net Zionist lobby group " is? I am not familiar with that term..

SAS23- you wrote:

I'd be quite happy to have a blanket ban on I vs P threads unless it's some especially relevant news - and I don't mean just another suicide bomber or Israeli attack!!

Agreed.. Personally, I'd like to see news on PEACE being reached..

Chris


Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Stratofish
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:38 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 4:01 am

"Can someone PLEASE explain what the "A.net Zionist lobby group " is? I am not familiar with that term.. "

Well, we all know WHO they are, it´s very obvious. Big grin
And I also think that noone should try to impose a ban on certain topics. It sure will mean the end of the discussion forums. If you don´t want to read it, skip the threads, simple.
BTW, did anyone notice the posts in this thread are in a fairly civilised and polite manner although it´s us same who predominantely take part in the ME discussions.

*hoping for news of peace too!*
Stratofish
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 4:42 am

But what IS a "Zionist" group??? And I don't classify anyone here under "labels" like that.. Only that we all have an interest in aviation..

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 5:15 am

The Zionist movement is basically Jewish people seeking a homeland for themselves in its historical site (middle east). Anyone who may even remotely be suspected of supporting Israel in certain aspects of the conflict will be labeled as a member of the "A.net Zionist lobby" (you know, like the "Zionist-controlled media").

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Pilothica737
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 1:55 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 5:41 am

Gee Alpha-1 First of all I am not sensitive at all, so you can just get over that! you are obviously one of those people who enjoys a good confrontation, and there is nothing wrong with that. You just need to think very wisely about to whom you speak to like that. I am a 16 year old girl. You are somewhere in your 30's or 40's, yet you apear to be very imature. These forums are for people to express their opinions. You stated that if I don't like a topic, to stay away from it... go back and look at all the i vs. p threads, and see how many times I have posted. I haven't even read any of them! It's just the fact that EVERYTIME I log on, there's annother thread about the issue. This topic was apealing because somebody finaly stood up and said this had to stop, and that is truly comendable coming from the one who starteded a lot of those threads! So for you to be a d*** about it makes no sense!
Back to the "sensitivity" issue. If I am sooooo sensitive, then why are you the one that blew up in my face because I stated my opinoin. I believe it is you who is ultimately being asinine! Enough said!
BTW Feel more than free to e-mail me on the topic if you feel you have more to say...I invite you to...
Pilotchica737@netscape.net
Jacqueline









 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 12:00 pm

I don't think the solution is to ban these threads. The solution is to either force the participants to act civilly or ban them from the threads.

Agreed. Mcringring, 100%.

And Jacquiline, I do contemplate what I am saying. And I find it amazing you can think someone mature simply because they put a little passion into what they believe, and what they stand for on here. That is your opinion of me, and that's fine ,but it's far, far from the truth.

As for as "blowing up in your face", you can think what you want, but the fact is for some reason, you lose it, or so it seems, any time you just see a post on the subject. Well, pardon me, young lady, but that's your problem, not mine. If it bothers you that much, I do believe you are over-reacting. That's not an indictment of you in any fashion, that's just my opinion. If you want to call me asinine over it, feel free. It moves me neither way.

And as for your email address, I thank you for the opportunity, but I don't go around writing to 16 year old girls. But thanks for the invitation anyway.
 
Pilothica737
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 1:55 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:59 pm

Alpha, never did I say that you aren't contemplating what you are saying... You just need to think about what you are saying and to whom. I've done some research on you, and apparently you ARE infact rather confrontational. I truly believe in being passionate about things you believe in, but not so much in a seemingly, lets say "I'm right and your wrong kind of thing" I am very open to your opinions, but you don't have to go low and say I am too sensitive. BTW I have never lost it when I saw I vs P threads... I just sigh and roll my eyes. One more thing if I may, I was more referring to your maturity in handling what I had to say, not n your overall character.
The e-mail, I was just trying to be more civil, and not make this into a big scene. I do hope that I haven't offended you, but lets not make a mountain out of molehill.
Jacqueline
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: These Threads RE: Isreal/Palestine Have To STOP..

Sat Jun 08, 2002 2:10 pm

You just need to think about what you are saying and to whom.

I do. Why do you come to the conclusion that I don't? Becuase I do put a lot of fire into what I say?

I've done some research on you, and apparently you ARE infact rather confrontational. I truly believe in being passionate about things you believe in, but not so much in a seemingly, lets say "I'm right and your wrong kind of thing"

Shouldn't you be studying, instead of doing research on some old curmudgeon like me?  Big grin

But seriously, if I find myself diamterically opposed to something someone says on here, why pussyfoot around the issue-who's feelings should I be trying to assuage? If I think I'm right and they're wrong, why not just come out and say "I'm right, and you're wrong"? I think people are too worried sometimes on here about offending, or sparing the feelings of someone they've probably never met, and probably never will meet! I'm here to give my opinions, and defend what I think is right. With all respect, I really don't care if someone doesn't like that.

And I appreciate your civility-I really do. And you did not offend me in the least. I just don't think it's proper for me to email someone of your age, and someone who happens to be of your gender.  Big grin

Regards,
Alpha 1

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