lubcha132
Posts: 2642
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 10:37 am

Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:04 am

Why is it that the other Arab nations, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. do not help the Palestinians with refuge? They ignore the fact that the Palestinians live in 2nd rate (or worse) settlements, but they do not offer them refuge or a place to live? As far as i can know, the only time the other Arab nations (i'm sure there are exceptions please let me know of them) support palestine is when somebody blows themselves up in a marketplace or bus stop.
 
Pendrilsaint
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:16 am

In Tony Horwitz Book "Baghdad Without a Map" he gives an idea on this...It seems as if Arabs dont care for Palestinians much...They are apparently view them as shrewd and backstabbing...and it has been that way for a very long time...but at the same time , they dont exactly care for the Israelis either for obvious reasons=)
 
heavymetal
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:29 am

Okay, I'll take the bait.....why should they?

Earth to Israel...problem not going away.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:39 am

Earth to Israel...problem not going away.

Why should Israel be expected to "take the Palestinians" if no other country is willing to do so as well? And if Arab countries do not especially care for Palestinians (which I have heard from many different sources), then why is Israel so bad for more or less not liking them either?
 
Guest

RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:53 am

Heavymetal:
Earth to Arabs, Jews/Israel not going away.

I don't need to explain this, you all know what's really going on the "palestinean refugees" hell, how many of the "refugees" were actually born in the "state of palestine"...... yeah you get my point.

yeesh....
 
heavymetal
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:58 am

Why should Israel be expected to "take the Palestinians" if no other country is willing to do so as well?

No other country will "take them in" because the general consensus (from everyone except the Israelis and current US government policy) is they didn't deserve to be "kicked out" in the first place. Cmon, man, I'm not bringing up some revolutionary concept here...this is at the heart of what's keeping these two peoples miserable.

If a total stranger bounces your parents out of their house, is the first and loudest debate going to center amongst your relatives as to who will take them in? Or..who kicked them out and why?

Now, before I get torn apart ferociously by the "either-or" zealots on this board, I have decided I am completely neutral on the Israeli / Palestinian issue. I have to be, for my reasoning simply can't ingest the fervant religious bunk surrounding these two societies. Israel has a right to exist on whatever land it wants because God said so? Right on. Palestinians have a right to blow up schoolkids because God said so? Sure. Whatever.

They can both grow up and decide to join the civilized world ...or both go to hell. I don't care.
 
KROC
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:05 am

Fair enough Heavymetal. Very well said.
 
artsyman
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:10 am

No other country will "take them in" because the general consensus (from everyone except the Israelis and current US government policy) is they didn't deserve to be "kicked out" in the first place

This isnt acurate at all, The Palestinians have been floating in nowhere land from times before Israel removed them or whatever you wish to call it. The Palestinians have been outcasts to the arab world for a long time also.
 
Rai
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:22 am

I don’t like to delve into this topic, but I think I will on this occasion. My landlord is from Egypt plus I had a lot of Arab and Muslim friends back in college (this was not in the U.S., by the way). I often wondered the same thing about why other Arab countries don’t take Palestinians in. First of all, some Arab countries have accepted Palestinian refugees, most notably Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. With the exception of Jordan and to a lesser extent Egypt, the other countries treat Palestinian refugees pretty poorly. I believe Jordan’s population is 60% Palestinian. In fact, King Abdullah’s wife is Palestinian. One of my friends in college was a Palestinian who grew up in Egypt. I’ve met Palestinians from Kuwait, Canada, and even Charlotte, North Carolina (complete with the southern accent). Hell, there are a fair number of them living in Jersey City and Patterson, New Jersey. So, it’s not like other countries won’t accept them.

You get images and hear stories on the news about this united Arab front and how they all stick together and they are all brothers and what not. It’s complete bullshit. Most of my Arab friends were of Lebanese decent, but I knew a few Egyptians, Palestinians and Jordanians. Fact is they don’t like eachother. You should hear all the smears and slanders they say about other Arab groups. In the Arab world, Lebanese have the reputation of being shrewd, sleazy, and players with women, but outstanding businessmen. On a side note, some of Brazil’s wealthiest citizens are of Lebanese decent. Supposedly, Egyptians are really nice, good hearted people, but somewhat simple, crude not good at running a business. Saudis are viewed as rigid, elitist and really snobby. Jordanians are sort of a mix of everything, but they are generally viewed as the most tolerant of the bunch. Jordan has a thriving IT sector, by the way. As for the Palestinians, the phrases that universally came up were to the effect of “hobo” or “gypsy”…well, generally, they are looked down upon, lower than anyone else…I really couldn’t get an explanation why.

Point is, they don’t like eachother…hell…they’ve had tribal conflicts for centuries. One of my Lebanese friends said he’d never marry someone who was not Lebanese, and he’d especially not marry a Palestinian woman because it would be “a great dishonor to marry someone of those bloodlines”. And this is from a guy who was born and raised in Canada.

It’s interesting because Arabs don’t really hate Americans, the West and, most surprisingly, they claim they don’t hate the Jews. And even if they did hate Americans, it’s not like they hate them anymore than they hate any other Western country. What bugs them is Zionism (which most people here don’t seem to have a fucking clue about – it is the Jewish movement to settle in the area known as Palestine, and it was established centuries ago). Aside from Lebanon, Iraq and maybe Egypt (but Egypt will never admit to it because they are being bought out by U.S weaponry) no other Arab country really has a beef with Israel. Egypt and Lebanon have land disputes, and Iraq…well, you know about them. Iran supports Hezbollah because they are Shiite Muslim, but Iran really doesn’t have any problems with the Jews. Iranians are not Arabs and Arabs and Persians have never, ever gotten along. But, of course, there are the Palestinians who have been displaced, and they are angry for a reason. But I think the rest of the Arabs region would be willing to leave Israel alone. For whatever reason, though, Zionism is able to aggregate all the Arabs (not just Muslims, mind you, but also the Durze, Christians and Arab Jews – yes, the latter does exist) into one group.

So, I don’t really buy this united Arab front, especially when most of them can’t stand eachother. As to why the other Arab countries don’t accept the Palestinians with open arms, they don’t like ‘em, plain and simple. If this was happening to the Lebanese instead of the Palestinians, you’d get the same reaction as you do now – nobody else would take them in.
 
Guest

RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:19 pm

Why should other Arab nations take the Palestinians (actually, anyone who knows anything about the region knows that Palestians make up the majority of workers in many countries such as Kuwait and Jordan) - when after all it was the Jews that stole their land through terrorism and ethnic cleansing?

Just imagine what would happen if someone took over your country and forced you to leave with nothing ... would you not want to return home?
 
qatarairways
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:30 pm

I don't usually like to participate in these topics but here goes...

Their are actually plenty of Palestinians living in other Arab countries. In Lebanon, Jordan and Syria their are Palestinian refugee camps an their are many Palestinians living in the Gulf as well as in Europe and North America. In Qatar their are many Palestinians, nearly as much as Qataris and many have been given Qatari passports and served in high positions in the government.
My Arabic language teacher is a Palestinian who has fled Haifa in 1948 as a young child and has lived a nomadic life most of his life living in poor conditions in Egypt, Jordan, Yemen etc... before setlling in Saudi Arabia in the early 80s and then moving here to Qatar. This situation is the same with most other Palestinians in Qatar.

"As far as i can know, the only time the other Arab nations (i'm sure there are exceptions please let me know of them) support palestine is when somebody blows themselves up in a marketplace or bus stop."

That is absolutley untrue, there is plenty of support given to the Palestinian people from the Arab countries in peace and war. Their are many charitable activities such as fund raising, university scholarships for Palestinian high-school graduates, educational support especially for kids in refugee camps, emergency medical treatment etc... As this is an aviation board, let me add something relevant a Qatar Airways aircraft in 2000 airlifted palestinians with bullet wounds or other serious injuries for medical treatment in Qatar.

"No other country will "take them in" because the general consensus (from everyone except the Israelis and current US government policy) is they didn't deserve to be "kicked out" in the first place."

I agree with Heavymetal on this issue, but another problem is that many of the refugee camps become dangerous sub-standard places with poor sanition and poor medical care diseases spread rapidly. Also many of the kids in the refugee can't get access to a proper education because they have to support themselves and their families by working as street vendors, mechanics or in farms leaving no time for education. Once they grow older the same thing happens with their kids and the cycle of poverty continues. The key to ending this cycle is to educate the kids, create job oppurtunities, offer proper sanitation and medical facilities and basically integrate thos people into society. This has proven successful in the Gulf countries where many of the refugees are now educated and work as doctors, engineers, computer programmers, teachers etc... because the Palestinians came to the Gulf in small numbers compared to Jordan, Lebanon and Syria and also the Gulf has the resources to do this.

In the other hand Jordan, Lebanon and Syria have low resources and the economy can't support the refugees and so the poverty cycle can't be broken and the refugees can't be integrated into society. Also many of the older Generation refugess who were born in Palestine refuse to integrate into society and settle down, the only want to settle down in their homeland. This is why Jordan, Lebanon and Syria refuse to take on more refugees and argue that they should be allowed to return becaus they can't support them.

Regards,
QatarAirways







 
EL-AL
Posts: 1416
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:31 pm

I dont think that the Arab Nations need to take the Palastinains, & By the way, thay dont want to do it as well (Arab solidarity, yea right).
I think that all the Palastinains sould live in the Palastinian Othority, in a state of thier own that will be in a part of the West Benk & in Gaza Strip, Everything together with agreement with the Israeli goverment.
every day is a good day to fly
 
TurbineBeaver
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestin

Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:35 pm

Very well said Heavymetal, great point.

The question should more be, why doesnt another Jewish state take the Israelis? The Palestinians were there first, so, technically, the Israelis should be shipped off to Europe and the USA. Yes, there are no other "jewish states" however, most people in israel originate from: Romania, former USSR, Ethiopia, Somalia, Poland, Hungary, as well as most european countries.

TB
 
asbg
Posts: 531
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:58 pm

The Arabs nations don't care at all!!
Where is all the money they promised?

I think for them Arafat the Palestinian leader is like a bone stuck in their throat. The people are not the problem it's their leader.

*Sam*
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:52 am

TurbineBeaver says:

The question should more be, why doesnt another Jewish state take the Israelis

This is exactly right: the whole reason Israel was created from Palestine was because Europe at the end of WWII did not want the survivors of the holocaust around Europe. Simultaneously, Britain was looking to end its increasingly unpleasant administration of the territories it won in WWI, so, why not kill two birds with one stone? ...By ending both the holocaust survivor problem and the [unruly administration of] Arab[s] problem, by, of all things, forcing them to live in the same land - the land today called Israel.

Only 20% of Israel's population was born in Israel. Virtually all of the Palestinians were born in the land formerly called Palestine. How can anyone suggest that the Palestinians should leave the land they were born in when it is the Israelis who are the new arrivals?

source for population information :http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
lehpron
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:08 am

EL-AL,

I was thinking with regards to this "Palastinian State", maybe if the world's nations came together and use their nuclear capability to ignite a forced undersea volcanic explosion off the coast of Israel, so that the lava/magma will form a new island. After a few years of renovation and construction, we will call that "Palastine"  Big thumbs up

Though the tsumanis might distroy Israel in the process, I donno if it is a good idea anymore...  Sad

BTW, it is spelled: Palastinian Authority and West Bank.  Smile
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
jwenting
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:36 am

In the 1940s and '50s many Palestinians were living in Jordan. They staged a revolt in order to destroy the government and take over the country. This revolt failed and thousands were killed. The rest was thrown out of the country.
In the 1960s many Palestinians were living in Syria. They staged a revolt to overthrow the government and take over the country. The revolt failed and tens of thousands were killed. The rest was thrown out of the country.
In the 1970s and '80s many Palestinians were living in Lebanon. They... The revolt failed (leading to the war in 1982 when both Israel and Syria invaded Lebanon and fought it out with both each other and the Palestinians) and ...
The rest ...
In the 1980s many Palestinians lived in Kuwait and the other Gulf states. When Iraq invaded Kuwait they took up arms against Kuwait and supported the invaders. The invasion failed and many of them were killed. The rest were thrown out of the country.
In the 1990s many Palestinians lived in Israel. They took up arms against the Israeli government and the world supported them. Whenever Israel defended itself it was denounced as a fascist agressor.
Israel gave them self-rule over large parts of the country in exchange for a ceasefire, which the Palestinians methodically broke every chance they got.

hmm, do I see history repeating itself?????
I wish I were flying
 
us330
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RE: SAS23

Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:20 am

SAS23, you have once more managed to make an irrelevant and bigoted post and tarnished a genuine, good intentioned thread. Didn't you notice how everyone prior to and after your post made statements supported by history and that were totally unopinionated, yet you continue to bring your hatred for the Jews in this thread anyway, which I find to be totally ironic, since you are British, and the British were the ones that created this entire mess to begin with.
 
Sonic
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:47 am

Simple answer: because Palestinians lives where they lives and why they should abandon homes and go to other Arab nation, even if that nation would accept them? And also, yes SAS, Jews there the ones who stolen land. If Israel would offer West Bank and Gaza Strip to say Jordan and Egypt and these countries would refuse, this would be another case and then you would be able to post such topics.
 
PIAforME
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:57 am

Iran is NOT a nation of arabs.

KamranSarwar
PIAforME
 
Guest

RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:13 am

Palestians make up the majority of workers in many countries such as Kuwait and Jordan

Bullshit. All 400,000 Palestinians were expelled from Kuwait 11 years ago.

In Lebanon, Jordan and Syria their are Palestinian refugee camps

Thats billshit also. Yes there are Lebanese Palestinian refugee camps, but Lebanon hardly "took them in" as the original poster queried. Instead they locked them into these camps of squalor where Palestinians are prohibited from undertaking many professions, prohibited from many types of education, and prohibited from leaving and joining the general Lebanese populace. Thats not the question who allowed the Palestinians to merely survive, its "who took them in" and cared for them and allowed them to join society. Jordan did, Syria is starting to, and Lebanon most certainly does NOT.

was because Europe at the end of WWII did not want the survivors of the holocaust around Europe

You can bet that at the end of WWII the survivors of the holocaust didn't want Europe either.

Only 20% of Israel's population was born in Israel.

You don't understand math very well.  Smile. The number you quoted is actually 20% of 80% (The Jewish population) were born in Israel. But even this number is wrong. The CIA says there figures are 6 years old, while at the same time, in yesterday's Jerusalem Post, Bar-Ilan University's most recently study found that in fact Jews make up only 72% of Israel's population, not 80%.

So your all mixed up! (Not exactly the first time)

Iran is NOT a nation of arabs

You bet! And they don't like Arabs very much either. Except for Syria, wonder why?  Laugh out loud

TNNH
 
Guest

RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Thu Jun 13, 2002 3:19 am

No other country will "take them in" because the general consensus (from everyone except the Israelis and current US government policy) is they didn't deserve to be "kicked out" in the first place. Cmon, man, I'm not bringing up some revolutionary concept here...this is at the heart of what's keeping these two peoples miserable.

If a total stranger bounces your parents out of their house, is the first and loudest debate going to center amongst your relatives as to who will take them in? Or..who kicked them out and why?

Now, before I get torn apart ferociously by the "either-or" zealots on this board, I have decided I am completely neutral on the Israeli / Palestinian issue. I have to be, for my reasoning simply can't ingest the fervant religious bunk surrounding these two societies. Israel has a right to exist on whatever land it wants because God said so? Right on. Palestinians have a right to blow up schoolkids because God said so? Sure. Whatever.

They can both grow up and decide to join the civilized world ...or both go to hell. I don't care.


This gets my Vote for Israel/Palestine issue's post of the month Big grin
Good argument
"Fair enuff"
-Lt. Jack Ridley, The Right Stuff
 
ronen
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:51 pm

THIS IS HOW THE ARAB STATES TYPICLY TREAT THE PALESTINIANS
http://www.refugees.org/world/countryrpt/mideast/kuwait.htm

THE DON'T REALY CARE ABOUT THEM THEY JUST USE THEM TO TAKE THE ARAB PUBLIC OPINION OUT OF THE REAL ISSUES THEY HAVE TO FACE LIKE -NO DEMOCRACY,NO HUMAN RIGHTS,CORRUPTION AND POVERTY.
 
Krushny
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:01 pm

Amen, Leftseat86 .
Reading last statements from both sides leaders, I am beginning to see this I/P conflict as kinky sex between consenting adults. Until their peoples do not kick (vote out) these old farts out of office, there is no hope for them...
 
ronen
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To Krushy

Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:40 pm

The Israeli p.m before Sharon was ehud barak . He was a left party leader all for negotiating and ending this conflict. He offered arafat 97 or 98% of the territories , another area in the south of Israel and east Jerusalem .
what did he got in return -this horrible terror attacks .The Israelis unlike the Palestinian (or any other Arab citizen in an arab country for that matter) can change our leaders when we offered concessions and peace we got over 500 dead Israelis .This is why the Israeli "left" is dead .after baraks offers and what he got in return from the Nobel peace price winner arafat.
 
Krushny
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:25 pm

Ronen,
the great majority of that 500 Israelis were killed during Sharon's tenure, so do not blame Barak for them. It was Sharon who decided to escalate the conflict and got into the action/reaction dynamics we are seeing now.
 
ronen
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinian

Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:56 pm

The only reason why this dynamic is going on is because western Europe and the u.s will not let us defend ourselves if we were the u.s the first bomb would be the last. but as a Jew state we have to apologise that we are alive.
every lie the Palestinian is spreading is quickly embraced by Europe .Did you ever heard on an Israeli how exploded inside a Palestinian restaurant .Why you Europeans are so supporting of the Arabs is beyond me but I have to tell you that when I look at the history of the Jews in Europe I start to think that the unswer is there..
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:31 pm

Because they're hypocrites. They yell and scream every hour on the hour that the west-particularly the U.S., needs to do something to help the Palestinians-usually they want the U.S. and the E.U. and others to throw billions of dollars at them. Yet why don't they bend over backwards to help rehabilitate the Palestinians? If they put half as much energy into helping to rebild the economic and political infrastructure of that nation-in-waiting as they do in their endless verbal attacks on Israel, or in their endless support of physical attacks on Israel, maybe something would get done.

Of course, they're led by Saudi Arabia, that great American "ally". Another hypocrisy on the Saudi's part.
 
Krushny
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:39 am

Ronen,
as usual in this conflict, Israel/Pal blame others for their mistakes, and instead of argumenting you wave the Holocaust flag.
It was idiotic of the Israeli cabinet to start this war, and notice later that Israel cannot live without US 3B$ aid and EU trade. If you want to finish the job, it is simple, renounce to the later and get victorious but broke. When you start a war you have to win it, if you cannot better stay quiet.

Alpha 1, hallucinating again? Europe lead by Saudi Arabia? Let me remind you the Saudis are the main US allies in the ME. Instead of flaming the Europeans you should better ask your government to stop supporting one of the most corrupt and backward regimes in the world.
 
Guest

RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:37 am

Alpha 1 - if the Americans are throwing billions of dollars at the Israelis every year to bail out their bankrupt economy, then why shouldn't the Palestinians want a slice of the action?

If the Americans stopped supporting Israel financially, it would force the Israelis to reach an amicable and fair accommodation with the Palestinians which should surely be the goal.

Don't you agree?
 
Guest

RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 2:32 am

SAS23 the problem you dont see is that most Palestinians (about 60%) want total destruction of Israel, and all of that land as theirs. From my POV, the Israelis are the only ones to have offered a modest compromise, it seems the other side doesn't know what sharing is...
 
Guest

RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:01 am

Leftseat86 - that's just rhetoric; in the same way that the Israelis are advocating the destruction of the Palestinians. Of course, the Israelis have the capabvility to do it with their tanks, attack helicopters, fighter bombers etc ... the Palestinians have rocks, petrol bombs, suicide bombers and AK47s. All rather one sided!!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:26 am

Another double standard. The entire world accuses Israel of mistreating Palestinians while Arab (mis)treatment of Palestinians goes unchallenged.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
roguetrader
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 10:26 am

Ronen,

How exactly are the USA and Western Europe preventing Israel from doing what it wants?

Krushny says:
Israel/Pal blame others for their mistakes...and notice later that Israel cannot live without US 3B$ aid and EU trade. If you want to finish the job, it is simple, renounce to the later and get victorious but broke. When you start a war you have to win it, if you cannot better stay quiet.

This is exactly right and a most accurate statement of the facts. Israel is free to do whatever it wishes, no one is holding it back from making 'its first bomb its last.' If Israel thinks a quick elimination of the Palestinian problem is the right thing to do: what is stopping them?

If the Americans stopped supporting Israel financially, it would force the Israelis to reach an amicable and fair accommodation with the Palestinians which should surely be the goal.

America doesn't have to go this far, all it has to do is threaten Israel with the elimination of support, and voila! an amicable peace could be reached. Since the US is the only valuable friend Israel has and since ending US support of Israel would mean an end to Israel, all that is required is to show the Israelis that they are not entitled to my paycheck as an automatic right. As long as Israel believes the US supports it unconditionally, it will continue its hostile increase in settlements and pointless 'counter-attacks' that do nothing but make the problem worse.

It is the American support of Israel that provides the fuel that continues this conflict. American support for Israel is furthermore the foundation of Arab resentment towards America and the touchstone for all who financially or ideologically support terrorism against the USA.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 10:43 am

Rogue, that's pretty one-sided. If you were truly interested in the welfare of the Palestinian people, where is your equal condemnation of Palestinian treatment by Arabs? It's no better.

By your argument, we should stop supporting Israel (the ONLY democracy in the Middle East) so the Arabs won't be mad at us anymore? All of whom are ruled by despots to be begin with. ----> If this isn't the ultimate pacifist approach to international relations, I don't know what is.




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:01 am

Europe lead by Saudi Arabia?

Uh, no, Krushny, The ARAB WORLD led by Saudi Arabia. The Socialist-leaning E.U. is just lead more and more by a bunch of left-wing utiopians.

Instead of flaming the Europeans you should better ask your government to stop supporting one of the most corrupt and backward regimes in the world.

I agree-they should cut off all support for France. (wink)

If the Americans stopped supporting Israel financially, it would force the Israelis to reach an amicable and fair accommodation with the Palestinians which should surely be the goal.

Don't you agree?


Agree with a damn thing that a reactionary like yourself says? Riiight. No, I don't agree. IF the U.S. stopped supporting Israel, there'd be 2 million dead Israel's, and a few million dead Arabs. Of course, you wouldn't mind the dead Israeli part, but you'd scream holy hell over the dead Arabs.

the Palestinians have rocks, petrol bombs, suicide bombers and AK47s. All rather one sided!!

Really? Seems to me those things kill just like a tank. It's only one-sided to you because not enough Jews are dying to satisfy you, SAS23.

 
roguetrader
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:35 am

Rogue, that's pretty one-sided. If you were truly interested in the welfare of the Palestinian people, where is your equal condemnation of Palestinian treatment by Arabs?

You are absolutely right, Yyz717, it is one sided. I have this strange idea that I have the right and obligation to review and criticize governments that are supported by my tax dollars. As I work part of every day to pay my taxes that are in part sent to Israel - I have the highest right to be critical of their actions above the actions of all else.

I refrain from severe criticism of most other nations mainly because I don't expect them to care about my opinion. Insofar as the US gives money to the Palestinians, you're right, I should critize them equally. By my calculations ($70 billion sent to Israel versus $70 million to the Palestinians), I need to criticize Israel 1000 times for every one criticism I make of the Palestinians, since I disagree with them both.

Furthermore, I truly do care about the Palestinians, the Israelis and any human being. But, I don't care about them more than Americans, whom I believe have a higher right and better use of their own money than war like foreigners in a value-less far away land.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Guest

RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:45 am

*No Comment*

Pendrilsaint, have you read his other book, Confederates In The Attic. It is a good laugh.

 Smile
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:02 pm

Roguetrader, have you checked how much US aid goes to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and about a dozen other so-called friendly Arab US allies? Add it up & you'll see that US aid to Israeli is fairly balanced, perhaps not on a per capita basis though.

You should visit Israel sometime. You'll be surprized how similar, how secular, how Westernized Israel is. You won't find such a society anywhere else in the ME. Israel is worth supporting. There are no many parallels between the US and Israel.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
roguetrader
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:30 pm

Roguetrader, have you checked how much US aid goes to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and about a dozen other so-called friendly Arab US allies?

No, I haven't. As soon as it becomes apparent that US aid to those countries is both a.> used to fight a war and b.> causes people to hate the USA and attack Americans at home and abroad - I'll become interested in the matter. Until then, I trust the stupid politicians to figure out how much, if any, American aid these countries will deserve. I don't want to be a foreign policy expert: only terrorism and the ongoing Israeli conflict has encouraged me to become more educated about this matter.

You should visit Israel sometime. You'll be surprized how similar, how secular, how Westernized Israel is...

I'll never go there as long as my wages are used to kill the people that live there or near there. If it was truly similar to the US, it would accept people of all religions equally, allow virtually unlimited immigration regardless of religion and not be so concerned about keeping a 'democracy' applicable to only those it wants to participate in its democracy. With $70 billion dollars anyone could create a 'Westernized' country.

The topic of the thread is: why don't others take Palestinians? My replies are all aimed at explaining my view that Israel is the right place for the Palestinians to live.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:37 pm

I'll never go there as long as my wages are used to kill the people that live there or near there.

How selective! The US has killed millions of Vietnamese, Cubans, Koreans, Iraqis....and yet you're a proud American Rogue? The US has NEVER been threatened any any of these countries...and yet Israel is under constant daily threat from angry neighbours bent on its destruction...and you refuse to visit Israel until they stop......by the same argument, you should renounce your US citizenship asap and leave the US, given the US bombing & killing of many nations. You're holding Israel to a standard by which your own country cannot even stand.

Don't get me wrong Rogue, I'm not picking on you. I actually respect your opinion usually, I just think your anti-Israeli stances are a bit one-sided.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:43 pm

Unfortunately, Yyz, Rogue is an elitist-he somehow thinks he's better than the rest of us Americans.
 
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 2:33 pm

How selective! The US has killed millions of Vietnamese, Cubans, Koreans, Iraqis....and yet you're a proud American Rogue?

Actually, I wouldn't go to any of those countries either, so I'm not really being selective. Also, I am the first to argue that all of these are great examples of previous efforts the US made to support a country with non-American values that ended up in disaster. With Vietnam being by far the worst for us and of course a severe tragedy for the Vietnamese themselves. In fact, I might in fact go to Vietnam and if I did, I would try to say something like, 'I'm sorry, it was a big mistake, we were mislead by our government.'

But, you bring up some great comparisons to Israel in the countries you name. Had I known the truth about the illegal regimes America supported in Vietnam, Cuba, Korea, and Iraq, I wouldn't have gone there either during their times of American subsidy, and obviously wouldn't have supported their American subsidy. (I wasn't old enough in any of these examples, anyway) You can add Iran, the Philippines, Panama, and now apparently Saudi Arabia to the list of countries America has supported that were essentially non-democratic states where US support backfired. Just like it has backfired in Israel. Unfortunately, American pride usually dicates that it will stick by a failed policy until the price becomes severe - simply admitting a mistake early on and without bloody conflict is apparently not possible for America.

And yes, I am proud of America, but I don't believe America is perfect and I don't believe its foreign policy is conducted in the interests of Americans. I don't believe everything it does is beyond criticism and I don't believe that everyone who criticizes its mistakes is our enemy. Finally, if the government is telling me something or to think a certain way, I automatically assume its questionable and in pursuit of a self-serving, not public-serving, agenda.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Fri Jun 14, 2002 4:32 pm

Yyz717 said: Another double standard. The entire world accuses Israel of mistreating Palestinians while Arab (mis)treatment of Palestinians goes unchallenged.

Well, one minor difference: the Arabs didn't carry out ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians; nor have they subjected them to continuous oppression and state terrorism. Israel is the Palestinian's homeland and therefore they are fully entitled to the right of return - and with considerably more merit than the Jews who are entitled to an Israeli passport and citizenship merely by their religion.

He then says: Israel is worth supporting.

Why? What exactly does Israel do for its allies apart from spy on them and sell their state secrets to their enemies; attack their ships; kill their citizens; threaten to damage their economies and businesses ...? There is no economic or strategic value in supporting Israel - rather the country is a complete and utter liability for the West. Its economy is bankrupt and without billions in aid it would, as RogueTrader correctly identifies, go to the wall. By supporting Israel, the West (and particularly the USA) has made itself a target for extremists that are, not unsurprisingly, upset with the nation that supplies the country that oppresses and terrorises their fellow Muslims with tanks, aircraft and other weapons.
 
mish1234
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RE: Why Won't Other Arab Nations Take The Palestinians

Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:15 pm

Watch the news,
they interview a palastian.. first thing they say!

"The Occupation"

#1 there is no occupation
#2 they got kicked off land that wasent theres in the first place
#3 they got smoked in 1948 (not to mention all the other gazillion arab countries that attacked also).

They could of had something good, they refused..
they prefer the war way of doing things.
thats why u see them living in such harsh conditions, casue of there government.

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