Superfly
Topic Author
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:29 am

Here is a very interesting article by Bernie Saunders (I-VT)

Published on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 in The Hill (Capitol Hill)

Congress Can No Longer Ignore Corporate Control of the Media
by US Rep Bernie Sanders

One of our best-kept secrets is the degree to which a handful of huge corporations control the flow of information in the United States. Whether it is television, radio, newspapers, magazines, books or the Internet, a few giant conglomerates are determining what we see, hear and read. And the situation is likely to become much worse as a result of radical deregulation efforts by the Bush administration and some horrendous court decisions.

Television is the means by which most Americans get their “news.” Without exception, every major network is owned by a huge conglomerate that has enormous conflicts of interest. Fox News Channel is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a right-wing Australian who already owns a significant portion of the world’s media. His network has close ties to the Republican Party, and among his “fair and balanced” commentators is Newt Gingrich.

NBC is owned by General Electric, one of the largest corporations in the world — and one with a long history of anti-union activity. GE, a major contributor to the Republican Party, has substantial financial interests in weapons manufacturing, finance, nuclear power and many other industries. Former CEO Jack Welch was one of the leaders in shutting down American plants and moving them to low-wage countries like China and Mexico.

ABC is owned by the Disney Corp., which produces toys and products in developing countries where they provide their workers atrocious wages and working conditions.

CBS is owned by Viacom, another huge media conglomerate that owns, among other entities, MTV, Showtime, Nickelodeon, VH1, TNN, CMT, 39 broadcast television stations, 184 radio stations, Paramount Pictures and Blockbuster Inc.

The essential problem with television is not just a right-wing bias in news and programming, or the transformation of politics and government into entertainment and sensationalism. Nor is it just the constant bombardment of advertising, much of it directed at children. It’s that the most important issues facing the middle-class and working people of our country are rarely discussed. The average American does not see his or her reality reflected on the television screen.

The United States is the only industrialized nation on earth that does not have a national healthcare program. Yet, despite 41 million people with no health insurance and millions more underinsured, we spend far more per capita on healthcare than any other nation. Maybe the reason is that we are seeing no good programs on television, in between the prescription drug advertisements, discussing how we can provide quality healthcare for all at far lower per capita costs than we presently spend?

Despite the great “economic boom” of the 1990s, the average American worker is now working longer hours for lower wages than 30 years ago, and we have lost millions of decent-paying manufacturing jobs. Where are the TV programs addressing our $360 billion trade deficit, or what our disastrous trade policy has done to depress wages in this country? And while we’re on economics, workers who are in unions earn 30 percent more than non-union people doing the same work. There are a lot of programs on television about how to get rich by investing in the stock market. But have you seen any “specials” on how to go about forming a union?

The United States has the most unfair distribution of wealth and income in the industrialized world, and the highest rate of childhood poverty. There’s a lot of television promoting greed and self-interest, but how many programs speak to the “justice” of the richest 1 percent owning more wealth than the bottom 95 percent? Or of the CEOs of major corporations earning 500 times what their employees make?

If television largely ignores the reality of life for the majority of Americans, corporate radio is just plain overt in its right-wing bias. In a nation that cast a few million more votes for Al Gore and Ralph Nader than for George Bush and Pat Buchanan, there are dozens of right-wing talk show programs. Rush Limbaugh, G. Gordon Liddy, Bob Grant, Sean Hannity, Alan Keyes, Armstrong Williams, Howie Carr, Oliver North, Michael Savage, Michael Reagan, Pat Robertson, Laura Schlessinger — these are only a few of the voices that day after day pound a right-wing drumbeat into the heartland of this country.

And from a left perspective there is — well, no one. The Republican Party, corporate owners and advertisers have their point of view well represented on radio. Unfortunately, the rest of America has almost nothing. As bad as the current media situation is, it is likely to be made much worse by a recent decision in the District of Columbia Court of Appeals that responded to a suit by Fox, AOL Time Warner, NBC and Viacom. That decision struck down a federal regulation limiting companies from owning television stations and cable franchises in the same local markets. The court also ordered that the Federal Communications Commission either justify or rewrite the federal rule that limits any one company from owning television stations that reach more than 35 percent of American households.

The bottom line is that fewer and fewer huge conglomerates are controlling virtually everything that the ordinary American sees, hears and reads. This is an issue that Congress can no longer ignore.


====================================================

So the term 'liberal media' which is thrown around loosely has NO basis what so ever. This is a point I have brought up from time to time.

Bring back the Concorde
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:31 am

Wow, one article disproves everything.  Yeah sure
 
Superfly
Topic Author
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:47 am

You can't deny the truth of this artice.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Guest

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:48 am

The media is not liberal...

Well, maybe not to you, Superfly.

However, I have some major issues with that article. It didn't come across "fair," "impartial," or "balanced." It came across as a liberal-sanctioned anti-capitalist tirade. That article is what it accused corporate America of being.

From my point of view, capitalism is good. I've had enough economics classes to know at least that. So, I take little issue with the facts of market forces. Sure, capitalism not perfect, but at least I don't have to pay $20 for a loaf of bread.

'Speed
 
Superfly
Topic Author
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:53 am

I am certainly not disputing the advantages of capitalism Mr. Speed.  Insane
Bring back the Concorde
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:54 am

Congrats on the cut-price bread NormalSpeed. Now explain why you do pay $20 for a CD when the bread is more expensive to make.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Superfly
Topic Author
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:02 am

They must have skipped that chapter in all of his economic classes. Big grin
Bring back the Concorde
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:14 am

I have nothing against some liberal ideas but I have to admit the media does lean to the left. I will take you through my reasoning if you're interested.

It's widely known that almost all reporters and newswriters for CNN will admit to voting for clinton when asked. This likely has something to do with the fact that the big man TT is somewhat left leaning himself.

Then you have ABC hiring George Stephanapolous (who was actually a part of the Clinton admiistartion) as an anchor you have to admit there is bias.......how many conservative politicians are tv hosts? Dan Rather makes it his personal hobby to bring down bush. TV leans to the left, radio for the most part leans to the right. On TV I like forxnews but overall I try and get my news from the drudge report (http://www.drudgereport.com). Matt drudge is a good source for unbiased news IMO. He often makes efforts to expose the media establishment for what it is and it's quite eye opening at times.

And oh by the way.....you won't hear too many socialists like bernie sanders claiming there's too much liberalism in anything. Once you consider the source, this article is crap. The left will always claim the media has conservative bias and the right will always claim liberal bias. Personally, I find it simply depends on the medium you're talking about, and as for TV, the views of the left are usually presented more favorably. TV is the most widely distributed form of media, so I guess I'd have to say the media is liberal biased overall. But then you have many many VERY popular conservative talk shows on the radio so I'd say the radio has conservative bias (except for that dr. laura crap I hate that show).
 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:16 am

A friend of mine made the observation below. I thought I'd pass it on...

------------------

CBS's Bernard Goldberg has written an expose on the liberal media entitled
Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News

This is a good example of smart writing and even better marketing.
If Goldberg had written the truth, that the media is nothing but right-wing
pimps working for Bush,  if would sell about as many copies as Fortunate Son
and be withdrawn from book stores right away.

But since he's selling the LIE that left-wingers control the media,
something very different will happen to Mr. Goldberg and his book.

He'll get to go on:

The Rush Limbaugh show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Bill O'Reilly show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Sean Hannity show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Eva Von Zahn show  where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Beltway Boys where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Brit Hume show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Tony Snow show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Juan Williams show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Mara Liason show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The McLaughlin Group where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Chris the Screamer show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in
the media.
The G. Gordon Liddy show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in
the media.
The Laura Schlessinger show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in
the media.
The Michael Medved show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Sam & Cokie show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Meet the Press with Tim Russert where they'll say conservatives have no
voice in the media.
Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer where they'll say conservatives have no
voice in the media.
The John Hockenberry show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in
the media.
The Ollie North show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Neil Bortz show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Robert Novak show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Paul Weyrich show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Brian Williams show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Wolf Blitzer show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The Don Imus show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
The John Stossel show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Reliable Sources with Howie Kurtz where they'll say conservatives have no
voice in the media.

Then,

David Horowitz will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Maureen Dowd will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Ann Coulter will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Laura Ingraham will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Peggy Noonan will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
William Safire will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Andrew (bareback) Sullivan will write a column saying conservatives have no
voice in the media.
David Limbaugh will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Jonah Goldberg will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Mona Charen will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Linda Chavez will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
John Fund will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Paul Greenburg will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Jeff Jacoby will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Dick Morris will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Thomas Sowell will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Cal Thomas will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Walter Williams will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in
the media.
Mort Zuckerman will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Brent Bozell will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
William F Buckley will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in
the media.
Neil Cavuto will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
David Hackworth will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in
the media.
Charles Krauthammer will write a column saying conservatives have no voice
in the media.
William Raspberry will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in
the media.
Phyllis Schlafly will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in
the media.
George Will will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Matt Drudge will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Luci (The Bat) Goldberg will write a column saying conservatives have no
voice in the media.
Michael Barone will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Lawrence Kudlow will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in
the media.
Marlin Fitzwater will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in
the media.
Pat Buchanan will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Ari Fleisher will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Christopher Hitchens will write a column saying conservatives have no voice
in the media.
Rich Lowry will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.
Kate O'Beirne will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the
media.  

Isn't it a shame that the radical right-wing has no way to get their message
out?

...and Mr. Goldberg?
He's going to make millions selling red meat to the dittoheads.
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:36 am

Yeah....but you have to understand....and I mean this as the highest compliment...that to Superfly, a person like Ted Kennedy (D-Mass) is a Right Wing Fascist!

 Big thumbs up
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:39 am

All these talk shows are really not the point as far as TV is concerned, because average joe does not sit around and watch Political talk shows. What he does watch is the 5:00 News on ABC, CBS, NBC, and/or CNN, cnn headline news or fox news. Bottom line is that the evening news programs, which are the mostly widely viewed, DO in fact have the liberal bias and therefore it is valid to say that TV has liberal bias. This is not the case for radio at all.
 
Metwrench
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 11:25 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 10:57 am

Thank goodness we don't have nationalised Health Care! Even if the US could make it as good as the Canadian system it would be in absolute shambles. The Canadian Taxpayer pays through the nose for their system and they get poor service and the hospitals are so under staffed and under equipped they can't offer much more than a place to die in. I know, I watched a good friend die in Vancouver 3 years ago.

Come on! Do you really want an entity so inept as the US government managing our health care? I think not!

As far as the US having the worlds highest child poverty? Get a life! The author of this article obviously hasn't been watching enough Liberal Media based news! Or do you really believe that children in Sudan, Ethiopia, Afghanistan etc. etc. are better off?

As far as CEO's making so much more than the working force, so what! If the Board of Directors and Stockholders don't like it, throw them out! I have many Mutual Funds and I get to fill out and mail in ballots every year on each of them. If I don't like how things are going I vote them out. I bet I represent a very small percentage of people that actually respond to them. The way I see it,that is just like an election, if you don't vote, your opinion doesn't count!
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:20 am

Metwrench:

The media loves using vaguely worded numbers and percentages to skew or present a misleading message.

Take the "highest child poverty rate" scenario for instance. Just for ease and sake of argument.. let's suppose that the USA has 10 million kids living in poverty. And a country like the Sudan has only 7 million. So at face value, the statement is technically correct.

But what they don't tell you is that the US has 200 million people and the Sudan has only 20 million. 10 million kids out of a 200 million general population versus 7 million kids out of a 20 million population.

So now which countrys children overall are in worse shape?

Or what about the statistics involving crimes?

Let's say that one year, a certain city has 6 teen suicides. Then for whatever reason, the next year that number climbs to 9 teen suicide. They're going to run a front page cover story screaming about how teen suicide is up 50%!!!!!

Again, while technically correct, the numbers are nowhere near as profound as the editors would have us believe.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:27 am

The United States has the most unfair distribution of wealth and income in the industrialized world

That's as true a statement as I've seen. It's one of the biggest problems we have in this country.


It's widely known that almost all reporters and newswriters for CNN will admit to voting for clinton when asked. This likely has something to do with the fact that the big man TT is somewhat left leaning himself.

Balony. I think it has more to do with the fact that a majority of the people there liked Clinton more than Bush or Dole, not because Ted Turner leans to the left. Gordon Bethune at CO is a die-hard Republican-do you think a majority of people at CO vote the way he does? Maybe they do or don't, but it has nothing to do with his views.

Then you have ABC hiring George Stephanapolous (who was actually a part of the Clinton admiistartion) as an anchor you have to admit there is bias.......how many conservative politicians are tv hosts?

I can run out guys like Gingrich, Buchanan, O'Reilley, Hannity, Limbaugh, Novak, etc. You think all of them are "fair and unbiased?" So they hired George-they also hired Bill Crystal, who was in Bush I's administration.

Personally, I think this "liberal" bias is a bunch of sour grapes by a bunch or right-wingers who can't stand that the rest of the country doesn't follow them lock-step, and who had the nerve to elect Clinton twice. Certainly there are some who lean to the left, but in this day and age, there are just as many who lean to the right. The most openly biased network, by far, is Fox, which says it's "fair and unbiased", but is so beholden to the GOP that they often sound like a tv verison of the GOP platform. There's nothing unbiased about Fox at all. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

It might be utopian to hope that people keep their biases to themselves, but they're human beings, for God's sake, and their personal opinons will show thorugh, even if they try to hide it.

It's much ado about nothing, in my view.





 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:30 am

Well said Alpha 1 ! The original 'chicken and egg' debate.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Guest

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:30 am

The media is a mix of influences. Some people lean to the left, some are in the centre, some lean to the right. Which way the prevailing political winds blow depend on where you look. How people tend to see things in the newsroom isn't necessarily how they're seen in the executive suite. Sometimes the two conflict.

But the one thing that is important to understand is that the media is generally a for-profit business. Indoctrination doesn't pay the bills or produce shareholder dividends -- giving advertisers an audience does.

In the end, ratings and yield per advertising unit are what counts. No businessman worth his salt is going to care whether the tone or content of the programming is left-wing or right-wing provided that those ratings and yields are maximized.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:45 am

That old claim that the US media is "liberal" is still going around?  Laugh out loud

I suppose the fact that most all reporting is done by reporters working for fortune 500 companies, who are certainly "liberal", is ignored. Oh well. I guess that the younger among us still believe that there is a real dfference in the ownership of the US presidency and congress in the past 40 or 50 years. Corporate America has owned the political system in this country for years.

No, I could hardly be considered a "liberal" whatever that may be.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Metwrench
Posts: 715
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 11:25 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:56 am

This country has plenty of faults, I will agree with anyone on that. But we do not have the worst child poverty level! Yes there are millions of kids living far below any standards that are acceptable!

The money is there! The Government programs are there! The problem is that there are so many parents, (I use that term loosely because people are making babies that shouldn't), don't give a crap about their children! There is nobody in the US that can't get medical or subsistence care if they want it!

If this is such a crappy place to live why isn't anybody leaving, and why are millions trying to get here?

The hell with the media, they can't even predict tomorrows weather! Most of what they report is true, just take the editorials and special interest stories with a grain of salt.
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 12:07 pm

Balony. I think it has more to do with the fact that a majority of the people there liked Clinton more than Bush or Dole, not because Ted Turner leans to the left. Gordon Bethune at CO is a die-hard Republican-do you think a majority of people at CO vote the way he does? Maybe they do or don't, but it has nothing to do with his views.

This analogy doesn't hold. The staff of gordy bethune doesn't have the capability to influence US and even global public opinion.....he operates an airline not a media conglomerate. AOL Time warner on the other hand DOES have the power to influence public opinion. Therefore, Turner can and does use his perch of power to align public opinion with his own way of thinking when he can get away with it. Bethune cannot do the same unless he starts making people watch political commentary on the inflight movies on every CO flight. Then you could ask yourself the question "why were these people hired by turner in the first place?". How likely do you think CNN is to hire a writer/reporter that is openly pro-life?
 
GD727
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 7:33 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 12:19 pm


The media can be very liberal. Just because a station is owned by a right wing corporation, does not mean the local station is right wing. At least all the stations around where I live (Massachusetts) are pretty liberal!

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 12:19 pm

PacificJourney, when you spend $20 on a CD, you're not paying for the CD itself, but the material on it. Blank CDs cost 50 cents. Cheaper than bread.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 12:29 pm

CNN, like most TV networks, is more likely to look at someone's on-air skills than their political resume. First, does the job candidate look presentable? Second, does the candidate convey warmth, likeability and sincerity?

That's the important stuff.

Ratings and advertising dollars are God in that industry. Having attractive faces and friendly personalities in front of the camera is vital -- that's why they spend so much time on banter and fluff pieces, like local weather people talking to schoolkids or holding puppy dogs while they read the forecast. Any political opinions that get on the air are just extra baggage, not the central focus.

Again, the media is a business trying to make money, not a church trying to do conversions.

 
GD727
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 7:33 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 12:32 pm

Congress Can No Longer Ignore Corporate Control of the Media

What's wrong with corporate control of the media? Imagine if the government controled the media, that would be communist IMO!

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
Guest

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 12:32 pm

Just to add to what JetService said:

It's all about market forces - supply and demand. When enough of us decide that we think that $20 is too much to spend for a CD, then the demand will decrease, and so will the price. But the price is $20 because enough of us think that it's a good price for what we are getting. Granted, this is an idealized example, but you get the point.

As JetService said, it's not the actual CD itself that we find valuable; it's the talent of the recording artists that we are able to capture, and replay. Without that, then it's not worth anything.

I may have missed a few days in my economics classes, but at least took them!

'Speed
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 1:11 pm

What I was looking for was an economic arguement of why bread costs what it does and CDs what they do. Show us how good these economics classes you and you alone have mastered. Supply and demand !! Thats all you can come up with ?

Of course we pay for the talent on a CD, but surely the first million or so sold already have paid that cost so why is it still charged for number 1,000,001 ?

We don't pay for the original cost of ovens, bakeries, delivery vans etc when we buy a loaf of bread, or do we ?

Give us the text book answer Speed and then I will tell you how much you do and don't know on the subject of economic theory (emphasis on the word theory).
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Guest

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 2:29 pm

What I was looking for was an economic arguement of why bread costs what it does and CDs what they do. Show us how good these economics classes you and you alone have mastered. Supply and demand !! Thats all you can come up with ?

Give us the text book answer Speed and then I will tell you how much you do and don't know on the subject of economic theory (emphasis on the word theory).


Well, you didn't give me a whole lot to work with. Ask a simple question, get a simple answer. Also, I never claimed to be the fount of all things economic. It is you who has assigned that status to me. I said I had a "few" economic classes. By that, I was implying that I have a somewhat better grasp of the subject than the complete neophyte.

In short: I can see that you are looking for a fight, and you aren't going to get one--at least, not from me. Sorry.

'Speed



 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 2:35 pm

Damn ! Foiled again ...
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Superfly
Topic Author
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 2:50 pm

NormalSpeed:
It's widely known that almost all reporters and newswriters for CNN will admit to voting for clinton when asked.

Hello, Bill Clinton was NOT a liberal.



JetService:
when you spend $20 on a CD, you're not paying for the CD itself, but the material on it. Blank CDs cost 50 cents. Cheaper than bread.

So can I go in to any Tower Records and buy the new RUSH (the rock group) CD without the artwork & the jewel case?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Guest

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:45 pm

NormalSpeed:
It's widely known that almost all reporters and newswriters for CNN will admit to voting for clinton when asked.

Hello, Bill Clinton was NOT a liberal.


Hello, I didn't write that. Try KAUSpilot.

'Speed




 
heavymetal
Posts: 4443
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 12:05 am

Exit Row, I copied that whole thought to send to my conservative friends (with appropriate credit of course)

Here's another paradox I love.....right wingers bitch about the "liberal media"...yet it's the first place they go to get news.

One of my best friends, a raging Bushie conservative, gripes about The Washington Post being liberal. 9 times out of 10 when we're talking about an issue his first line is "Did you see that article in the Post...?" Huh? What about the Washington Times, the paper that drips with conservative agenda? Why isn't he quoting the news from that?

I'll tell you why. Because right wingers are tickled silly to have their own "media outlets"....they can chalk one up in "their" column. Then they rush right back to the 'liberal media' because they know their own media is telling them what they WANT to hear....not anything USEFULL. Conservative agenda media 9 times out of 10 is little more than a mutual ass smooch, with everyone congratulating each other on how conservative they are.....and blaming "the liberals" for everything wrong in the world (like Enron).

Conservatives like to bitch about "the liberal media". Tell you what....answer honestly. Which newscast has the strongest agenda?:

ABC News
CBS News
NBC News
Fox News
CBN News

CBN News? What's that? It's the nightly newscast out of Pat Robertson's "Christian Broadcasting Network" . Well, that's not...
That's not what? CBN News is on as many cable systems as CBS News. It's not what? Not "media"? Of course it is. It's not 'mainstream' media..." Ahhhhh. Why? If it's on as many stations and cable systems as the boogeyman Dan Rather, why isn't it "mainstream"? Is there some liberal plot in the ratings system? Does Barney Frank or James Carville have the last say on what is "mainstream"?

Or...and stay with me here....is it because the CBN News has no credibility? Because they make no pretense whatsoever about favoring conservative, right wing views? Because the "mainstream" viewing public has determined they aren't interested in getting their news through Pat Robertson's "filter"?

Superfly's post is dead on the money. The "media" is not liberal, on the simple basis that, as Exit Row's post nicely points out, "the media" is too large and diverse an entity to be any one ideaology. And if the "mainstream" pays closer attention to the voices of the "liberal" media, whose fault is that?
 
b757300
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 2:58 am

I guess it all depends on how you define liberal. For Superfly, anyone to the right of Karl Marx is conservative.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
KROC
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 3:00 am

I guess it all depends on how you define liberal. For Superfly, anyone to the right of Karl Marx is conservative.

Ding. And me without my boxing K.O. pic.
 
Superfly
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 3:02 am

B757300:
Dude, enough of the personal insults.
You can't disput a single point about this article, can you?  Insane
Bring back the Concorde
 
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:01 am

I'll dispute the article:

"The United States is the only industrialized nation on earth that does not have a national healthcare program. Yet, despite 41 million people with no health insurance and millions more underinsured, we spend far more per capita on healthcare than any other nation. Maybe the reason is that we are seeing no good programs on television, in between the prescription drug advertisements, discussing how we can provide quality healthcare for all at far lower per capita costs than we presently spend?"

Yeah, sure Bernie. So now we are blaming health care problems on the media? "It's all the media's fault!!" Nice try, but that argument doesn't hold any water with me.

"ABC is owned by the Disney Corp., which produces toys and products in developing countries where they provide their workers atrocious wages and working conditions."

Has he forgotten that Disney Corp. is left-leaning?

Television is the means by which most Americans get their “news.” Without exception, every major network is owned by a huge conglomerate that has enormous conflicts of interest. Fox News Channel is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a right-wing Australian who already owns a significant portion of the world’s media. His network has close ties to the Republican Party, and among his “fair and balanced” commentators is Newt Gingrich.

So?

"NBC is owned by General Electric, one of the largest corporations in the world — and one with a long history of anti-union activity."

Fine with me. I think unions have gotten way out of hand, and I don't care for them.

"GE, a major contributor to the Republican Party, has substantial financial interests in weapons manufacturing, finance, nuclear power and many other industries."

So, is there something inherently evil with weapons manufacturing, finance, nuclear power, and other industries? I don't think so. Even our beloved Boeing manufactures missles and warplanes.

"Former CEO Jack Welch was one of the leaders in shutting down American plants and moving them to low-wage countries like China and Mexico."

Right, because China and Mexico have comparative advantage. Our firms and should focus on industries in which we have comparative advantage.

"And while we’re on economics, workers who are in unions earn 30 percent more than non-union people doing the same work. There are a lot of programs on television about how to get rich by investing in the stock market. But have you seen any “specials” on how to go about forming a union?"

In my mind, unions do harm to the economy, not good. So I'd hope never to see a special about forming a union on TV.

"The United States has the most unfair distribution of wealth and income in the industrialized world, and the highest rate of childhood poverty."

Well, I would consider what I had worked for fairly mine. And just because someone else is unwilling to work for something, it doesn't mean it's unfair.


I may not be able to dispute the facts and figures, but I can certainly disagree with the idealogy.

'Speed










 
jessman
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:14 am

Perhaps the fact that we are arguing about this proves that the media is actually nearly *gasp* neutral... But since we have an agenda when we see the news just reporting facts we get all huffy because that's not furthering our agenda. I personally always thought the media was conservative, because the truth it showed helped to form my conservative ideals. Oddly enough I have met several people who have felt that the media shaped them to feel more aligned with liberal ideology, but we watch the same programs.
I will not dispute the fact that even news anchors have their own political views, but I have always felt that they go out of their way to just report the facts when that is what they're paid to do.
Those that are paid to interpret (Rush Limbaugh, etc.) interpret with no attempt to hide their leanings.
I'm done now  Smile
 
gkirk
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:33 am

You God Damn Liberals  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Superfly
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:50 am

NormalSpeed:
It sounds like you are content with most information coming from the same point of view. You are set in your ways and this article isn't going to change the minds of people like yourself.

Has he forgotten that Disney Corp. is left-leaning?

That's news to me. I'd like to see a list of endorsements from Mickey Mouse. I always thought of Mickey Mouse to be A-political.

And you say "so" to the fact that every major network is owned by a huge conglomerate that has enormous conflicts of interest?
That's because the media is pushing an agenda that you support NormalSpeed.

And just because someone else is unwilling to work for something, it doesn't mean it's unfair.

You’re assuming that everyone who earns low-wages or no-wages is unwilling to work. There are plenty of hard-working and willing people who get paid much less than they deserve.


Jessman:
Well said. Even though I don't agree with your ideology, it was a well-said statement.



GKirk:
That was f---ing hilarious!  Laugh out loud  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Big grin


Bring back the Concorde
 
GD727
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:59 am


The point here that some of you people don't get, is it does not matter who these T.V. or radio stations are owned by, the independant stations are very liberal!
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
Superfly
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:01 am

GD727:
Are you talking about public access stations that have a range of like 5 miles?  Confused
Bring back the Concorde
 
heavymetal
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:35 am

the independant stations are very liberal!

Such as?
 
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yyz717
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:42 am

B757300:
Dude, enough of the personal insults.
You can't disput a single point about this article, can you?


The biggest ironic comment ever on Anet.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Superfly
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:56 am

Is Big Bird from Sesame Street liberal? Big grin
Bring back the Concorde
 
Superfly
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:57 am

Ok, now I get it.  Smile

Bring back the Concorde
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:13 am

"the independant stations are very liberal!"

"Such as?"

QVC
TBN
Cartoon Network
Sci-Fi
TMC

the list goes on and on......

but seriously CNN lol
 
Superfly
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:18 am

Cartoon Network is liberal?

That is frikkin' hillarious! Big grin  Laugh out loud

I can't stop laughing at that one!
Bring back the Concorde
 
b757300
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 9:19 am

Speedy Gonzales was banned by Cartoon Network because they felt it was offensive to Mexicans. However, the Carton Network in Mexico, which is owned by the same U.S. company, stills shows Speedy and he is hugely popular. Mexicans in Mexico don’t think it is racist @ all and neither do most living in the U.S. Only the media liberals think it is racist.

"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
Guest

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 9:33 am

Back in the '80s, a columnist wrote a tongue-in-cheek analysis of the Smurfs. He concluded they were a form of Communist indoctrination.

 Smile
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 9:36 am

Superfly i always thought there was something fishy with Dexters Laboratory. Personally i think hes a iraqi spy creating weapons of mass destruction for Saddam.
 
Guest

RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 1:11 pm

It sounds like you are content with most information coming from the same point of view. You are set in your ways and this article isn't going to change the minds of people like yourself.

Mmm... More or less as far as contentment goes. But then again, I don't watch network news - not even the local stuff. For some reason, I find The Simpsons far more interesting, and they are on at the same time. I listen to Rush Limbaugh, but his is not a news show. And, the fact that I listen to him doesn't mean that I always agree with him. The fact of the matter is that I think he is damn funny! When I want real news, I pick up a copy of the Wall Street Journal.

You are right though. It would take something far more rational than quasi-socialist diatribe to change my mind.

Besides that, I'm not seeing you rush to alter your views.

And you say "so" to the fact that every major network is owned by a huge conglomerate that has enormous conflicts of interest?
That's because the media is pushing an agenda that you support NormalSpeed.


If you are talking about the WSJ, then I'm guilty as charged. If you are talking about Peter Jennings, then I can only watch about 5 minutes without becoming nauseated. But, to coin a phrase "that's the way the ball bounces, G." (courtesy of Public Enemy). Someone's gotta own them. The only conflict of interest that I see is that those corporations are willing to put up with the crap that they let their news programs air. But hey, it pays the bills, and that's the idea.

You’re assuming that everyone who earns low-wages or no-wages is unwilling to work. There are plenty of hard-working and willing people who get paid much less than they deserve.

I'm sure there is. And I'm also sure that there are plenty of people who refuse to work, and blame all thier problems on "rich" people.

'Speed







 
Alpha 1
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RE: The Media Is Not Liberal

Fri Jun 21, 2002 1:27 pm

Hello, Bill Clinton was NOT a liberal.

Right, Superfly, and the Pope is actually Hindu.

Clinton is a liberal in many respects. Not all, but in many. If you deny that, you're nuts.

Dude, enough of the personal insults.
You can't disput a single point about this article, can you?


I thought he was right on, Superfly. After all, you're a big fan of Fidel, aren't you?  Big grin

And who the hell called the Cartoon Network liberal??!!

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