For example, this morning when I got up, there were over 20 delete suggestions, quite a few having to do with you and Alpha. Some users wanted you both banned outright as they felt your constant challenges on this thread were pointless and tedious. Is that a valid reason? No. Can I help the feelings of A.Net users? No. Does this have to do with the reputation you and Alpha have gained over the years through your words and deeds? Yes.
That right there more or less explained my stance and Alpha's as well. Why should users call for us to be banned outright, when we are civilly discussing issues? It is not pointless and tedious if a change occurs or at a minimum a better understand of each of our sides. Why me and Alpha 1 field so much "suggested deletions" if you will, if because we have the balls to speak up and say things. When we speak up, when we present our opinions, we back them up. We backthem up with well though out takes and or factual evidence as well. When me or Alpha 1 don't agree with Johnny Pup-puller in his thread about why Israel is so evil, and we don't insult or attack, but we do debate and argue, and we do it with knowledge and fact, Johnny can't handle that the fat his opinion is not being agreed upon universally by all involved. The simple fact that you have "emails, 20 or so, many calling for my and ALpha's banishment" is absurd because we have attacked nobody in here. We have presented opinions and the reasons why we feel the way we do. If I was discussing this with a different moderator Hepkat, and you received all those emails.....you would have flown off the handle. Hepkat, give me a reason or two where me and ALpha 1 have done something wrong in this thread...other than challenge the Airliner.net Status quo.
I beg to differ. What little moderating we do pales in comparison to the activities of A.Net users. You should also never forget that the very vast majority of users on this website have absolutely no qualms with us or what we do. They never have their posts deleted, they never need to be admonished and they harbor no feelings of resentment. It's always the same few. This tells me volumes more than any explanation you've previously offered.
Beleive me Hepkat, I have no resentment towards you or anyone else on here, because it's not worth it. This site is an enjoyment, and I am not going to be fired up over people I have never met in real life, and most likely wouldn't anyway. As for the other users you speak of, hey, they are content to follow the status quo here at airliners.net. To each his own. It is all good. I choose to question it, because when I voice my opinion, in a civil, well thought out and well placed manor, and people don't agree with it, I have to hear about how 15 people called for my banishment (garbage), or if I post something about Israel, and my opinion is ripped to shred's by the TNI on the basis of "just because (garbage), or if a post gets deleted that broke no rules, but I can open up the first page of the forum and in about 5 minutes find a handful of similar or worse offending posts......I will say something. Hepkat, if nobody ever says anything, then problems will never be addressed and or fixed. If nobody says anything, the site will plateau and not continue to get better. Surely you are smart enough and mature enough to realize this. I'm guessing you are. As for my line about abuse of power so to speak, I will address that in just a little bit.
I have no recollection of ever using that line in an email to anyone. Please send me the email in question, as I certain you've probably confused me with someone else.
I will contact the user that showed me the email. And here is where that "power goes to your head" statement comes into play. I honestly believe you sent the offending line that I saw. Why? Because you have fed me similar things. I am not trying to attack you or anything. But these make my points seem like they are not so far off into left field. Hepkat, when you posted that email fragment on here, using it against me, that way complete garbage. When I told you to post the whole thing if you were going to use it, you said, and I quote "I decide what the A.net users see". That has stuck with me only because of wrong that is. Other than that classic line, you never addressed it. Not in email, not on the boards when I called you on it. Funny, we are encouraged to email our problems with the moderators, as even you have suggested more than a few times. Yet when we do, as in my case, you take a private email, take only part of it, that paints a poor picture against the user, and you post it in the forum for all to read. I was all over Johan about that. He said he "didn't know if he liked that, and thought it was wrong". Other moderators I talked to over the whole incident thought it was wrong. What kind of policing action did you receive on that Hepkat? Why is it you that "decides what the A.net user sees". Why is it you that can get away with these seemingly important issues. In all reality, at the time of all that, I swore I would never email you out of principle or discuss things with you. Because it's not worth resenting, or holding a grudge, or letting it effect the fact that the site is for learning and enjoyment, I have since long let it go. I am not saying moderators are not allowed to make mistakes. Hey, you guys are just as human as I am (I think
) and I don't expect there to be no problems. But knowing and admitting when as a moderator the line may have been crossed is a good thing. Sometimes it appears that the mods (not all) think right or wrong they are above criticism.
The fact that TNNH's thread is restored has disproven your theory. In fact, many a moderator's decision has been reversed in the past.
KROC, I have the feeling that you focus intensely on the more unpleasant aspects of what we do. For you to have said that last line says to me that you're interested in inciting some sort resentment towards us. How on earth could you ever believe that any mod's decision is final? And why would you say a thing like that? It's shamefully false.
Hepkat, TNNH's thread being restored is a rare case, and it is because of the backlash it's deletion has created. Even the issues being discussed in this thread I am sure contributed to it. For the most part, and here is a better explanation of what I meant. For the most part, it is not worth anyone's time challenging every questionable deletion. For the most part, even when you do, providing valid reasons why it should not have been deleted, it will not be brought back. That is not a direct hit against you moderators. Different times zones, the fact people (well most
) have other aspects of their lives ect. as you have said don't allow for everything to get the full attention maybe it should. You may say many a moderator's decisions have been reversed, and I am not saying that is true, but for the most part people tend to come up empty when searching for answers why something was deleted or asking for it to be reversed. Way of the world I know, but things like that do happen. As for you saying I only concentrate on the negative aspects of the moderators, why don't you go to the top of the thread, and reread what I said about 174thfwff. I all but proposed marriage to him in my praise of the way he moderates, and suggested that Johan take a look at that, when he is judging the actions of moderators. CPDC10-30 falls into that category as well. Same with VC-10 (I believe that is his name), and a few others. Like you feel, I feel I am being repetitive. I was the first to publicly offer some praise to you moderators as well as state that the users need to cut you guys the proverbial "break". The thing is, nobody has a problem with positive moderating. There is no need to have a long drawn out discussion on the fact 174thfwff "gets it" when it comes to moderating. When there are issues and problems, that's what gets the discussions. Again, it's a sad reflection, when users who speak up like me and Alpha 1 are viewed as "the troublemakers" and are the constant subject to seemingly "change on the fly" policy's. We are not presenting our opinions with a "this is how it is no matter what" style. Especially in this thread that has so many users panties in a bunch. Again, we back up our opinions with thought out reasoning and if needed factual evidence. In a place of discussion and debate, I would never have thought that would constitute as wrong doing. Its the people who are intolerant of other people's views and opinions and cannot discuss them in a civil manor that should be getting the suggest banishment......Oh Wait, its those same people that are calling for me and Alpha 1 to get canned. What a pickle this is huh? That speaks volumes on its own
Hepkat, I am not trying to piss you off, or attack you or anything of that nature. We are discussing things on here in a civil manor from both sides. Something that doesn't happen too often around here. If other users can't see that, that's a them problem, not a me problem. Please don't sit there and read this and think like I have no respect for you, think nothing but negative thoughts about your actions and such. Not true. Simply I am just raising issues and concerns and discussing them. And I know I speak for more than just myself when I do this.
Speaking your mind is not what bothers us Alpha, it's HOW you do it.
ARRRRGHHHHH. Using thought and facts to state your opinion is wrong? Hepkat, have you looked at how 60% of the users on this site present their opinions? They make Alpha and me look like pre-schoolers. Are all of these people encountering the moderator wrath as well?
It is true that every mod has their own take on life and personal opinions. I can't speak for everyone, but I personally try to distance myself from my personal opinions and rely on the forum guidelines when moderating. If an error has been made, then we do what we have to do to correct it. Also, this very discussion is being undertaken in an effort to reduce misconceptions and level the playing field.
I respect your opinion on this matter Hepkat. I may not fully agree with it, but I respect it. Also, your line on the fact this discussion is going down to help reduce misconceptions and level the playing field is good. That is all me and ALpha 1 are trying to do as well. It's called working issues and problems out. Like I sad way up, at least to get a better understanding on each others point of view. What does that say about those "users" emailing in calling for the bannishment of me and ALpha 1. It shows how closed-minded and intolerable those people really are. They are the ones who negatively effect the forums far greater than me, Alpha 1, or anyone else that speaks their minds backing it up with thought and facts. This is the key to several problems. The user way to quick to be intolerable, and bust on that suggest deletion button.
On a side note, I think Hepkat should change his name to "Evoked" because thats what the spell check wants to change his name to!