174thfwff
Topic Author
Posts: 2831
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:47 am

ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:06 am

IF YOU ARE CONTENT WITH OUR PREFORMANCE, DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS THREAD! YOUR POST WILL BE DELETED AT ONCE. THIS IS ONLY A SUGGESTION THREAD FOR ME AND THE OTHER MODERATORS...YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Ladies and gentlemen,
With the start of the moderating program here at airliners.net, there have been times when people give us praise, others give us grief and some offer us suggestions...With that said, I need all of your help. The moderators need to start working WITH you guys and stop working against in some cases. Please offer us some suggestions on how YOU think we should handle things. This is the best way I can get feedback IMHO. I am not saying we are going to stop deleting copyrighted articles, harassment of other users and other lame stuff that should get deleted right away. Some of your ideas might be used, other ideas might be tossed out. However I will look at all of the posts, good or bad, and for those of you who offer enlightened ideas I will be e-mailing you for further explanation of them.

Again, Please no ideas like:
"Make me a moderator, I will fix everything"
"Let me have 100 usernames"
"I love you"
ETC.

-174thfwff
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:14 am

Don't delete non-controversial threads that people are enjoying, even if they are border-line rule-breakers.

For example, SAS23's "Why Europe is better than America" thread and my recent McRingRing et al thread.

Thanks.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:28 am

Should this not be in the site related section? And you a moderator.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Saloth Sar
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 4:23 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:31 am

Use the rating system to judge "low quality" threads. Unless there are other rules violations, no thread can be deleted for being low quality if there are 3 or more stars.
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:32 am

I don't think funny threads shouldn't be deleted, even if they are a flamebait if you take them serious. As an example, my "I hate Germany" thread. It was posted by a German and the reasons I posted made clear it was meant as a funny thread, and all replies understood it as a funny thread. Still it was deleted.

Another issue, the reason "violates forum rules" is really great, as you don't know why a thread was deleted. It could have 1000 reasons. I still don't understand why my thread with the US player pissing on the field was deleted...

And I think all moderator names should be put under the "delete" e-mail, so moderators don't have to take responsibility for their deletions..
 
Guest

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:43 am

The rating system can be, and often is, manipulated - people will assign a low or high rating depending on whether they agree with the topic and not reflecting the quality of the post.

For goodness sake, let's have a clearly defined policy on controversial subjects: the Israeli vs Palestinian threads spring to mind here. There's only supposed to be one thread open at a time (unless there's a different, relevant and non-flame baiting topic that suddenly comes up); so let's close the rest. In addition, there's a number of users (eg Alpha1) who attack the posters and not the issues. They should be banned on a temporary or permanent basis for such action.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:02 am

I think that you should take more action against people who are posting comments which are totally irrelevant to the thread:

Eg:
----
Username:
Posted 06-16-02 06:08 and read 355 times.
How come Singapore_Air does not know about this flight ?. Oh yes I forgot if its not on the web he has no clue !!

The post was to do with a non-scheduled flight, not the fact that 95% of forum members did not know about it.
----

----
Username:
Posted 06-06-02 04:44 and read 215 times.
SQ have TV's in their planes........I'm shocked !!

This post was irrelevant
----

----
Username:
Posted 2002-06-05 02:47:33 and read 226 times.
Can't Singapore_Air confirm this ?
......... or does he only know what he reads in a press release !!

When referring to stored planes.
----

----
Username:
Posted 06-01-02 13:28 and read 245 times.
Things do seem to be going bad at SQ !!

When referring to a delay in Amsterdam on an SIA flight. The comment was totally irrelevant and out of context.
----

----
Username:
Posted 05-29-02 16:20 and read 579 times.
The weather in Hong Kong is very nice today, how about the UK

When referring to staff service levels in a particular country. Totally irrelevant and ignored when deletion was suggested
----

----
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/828255/4/ This thread shows how things can get out of hand even when the person that is being incited / insulted doesn't play a role in the argument at hand
----

Username:
Posted 05-21-02 10:51 and read 67 times.
How many negative reports has SQ-Boy done ?

a) 50 - 100
b) 100 - 500
2) 600 - 1000

Referring to a post about an airline's profits. And I thought profits went up after September 2001(!)
----

----
Username:
Posted 2002-05-15 14:21:22 and read 175 times.
This guy is great,post crap and loss news about al carriers and then news about SQ that makes things look great.

ALL CARRIERS ARE GETTING BETTER LOADS NOW, NOT JUST SQ !

That, the first post in the thread in response to Singapore Airlines' rising load factors in April 2002.
----

Anyway, I think you get the just of things, I think the quality of the forum would be higher if such arguments and irrelevant comments were deleted quickly. Though only a few suggestions were probably submitted, I think that a moderator should still read the posts and it's obvious that it should be deleted.

Occasionally, I do post back to such immature messages, and I must say that the messages I post in response are also of a irrelevant nature, but for the most part I do try to stay out of such arguments and ignore the post.

I think moderators could improve on this respect.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:07 am

If a thread really goes grazy I'd rather it be archived than deleted.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:21 am

Remember that there is a difference between flamebait and simple kidding around.

And I do love you....  Laugh out loud
Dear moderators: No.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:21 am

Singapore_air - I think you are OBSESSED, there is more to life than Singapore Airlines. Surely they have a forum you can go to somewhere? Not many people really want to hear the ins and outs of the airline, which is probably why they get at you so much.

I think that, moderators are over-zealous with deleting topics, I mean if it is ok with the A.net community, why not keep it? As long as it is not breaking copyright laws then I feel that it should be ok, especially when it is bringing a little bit of fun (when we need it most) to the forums. I think, this is partly because of over-use of the 'suggest deletion' button. It pisses me off that so many people use it because a thread a)annoys them b)they find childish c)they find boring d)they misread, misenterpret or misunderstand, and because the readers e)are too stupid to see a joke when It punches them in the face f)are German g)both of the previous.

Regards

Dan















That was a joke about the Germans, just so someone stupid doesn't decide to press the suggest deletion button.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:23 am

Follow a set standard. It is clear that a set standard is not being followe by all 20 or so moderators. I understand that "personal digression" will always be needed, but if all mods follow a set standard, this greatly reduces that need.

Moderators need to do more investigation on the suggested deletions. I would bet my next pay check that the greater percentage of them are just somebody whining an crying.

Moderators have to start working together as a whole, not as the cliques that are evident.

Personal bias' against people in moderator views has to be eliminated (only a mod can do this). If we are to take and respect the moderators, then moderators have to call it right down the middle...the same for everyone. Arguably this is lacking currently.
 
TurbineBeaver
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:50 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (m

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:50 am

Use the rating system to judge "low quality" threads. Unless there are other rules violations, no thread can be deleted for being low quality if there are 3 or more stars.

In the famous words of Lumbergh, "I'm gonna have to umm....sort of....disagree with Saloth Sar on that one."

Unfortunately all too often people rate threads a 1 just for "shits 'n giggles" or because they dislike/despise the user that posted it. I think that often, the rating a thread has is indifferent to the actual quality/content of that thread. I suggest you guys install some sort of system where you can see what user suggested each deletion. If someone wants to suggest deletion, they should have the balls to let people know (not the general public, but the mods) that they are the one who wants the deletion. This way, you can notice if there are certain users always suggesting deletion for legit/nonlegit reasons, etc. I think it will also make people appreciate the suggest deletion button, and use it more wisely, and less as an "anger management" tool.

TB
 
McRingRing
Posts: 1028
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RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:01 am

Don't tell people to do something and then punish them for doing it. (I understand the issue in question is currently being discussed and I appreciate that)
B==============) ~~~~
 
174thfwff
Topic Author
Posts: 2831
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:47 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:37 am

I see where you guys are coming from about the joking stuff, but I guess we have not been reading too far above the "flambait" post to understand where the joke is from.

Okay so read further into the threads.
Try not to dig too deep into the post when maybe just the obvious is stated, or the obvious is less serious then the "deeper" meaning?
Become more team players.

Thanks for keeping this so civil guys. Keep it up, and keep 'em coming

As always, my email is 174thfw@twcny.rr.com This is my personal address and I would be more then happy to answer personal questions or other stuff anytime.

-174thfwff
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:44 am

be consistent with your 'deleting of posts' policy.

one of my posts was delted because of the following sentence:

"I personally prefer Airbus over Boeing. I like the look more..."

I could lose my membership for stating my opinion? I would like to point out this this world is opinionated and it is your opinion about the law of this page that drives this site. Since you guys are the head folk, you obviously relish in some ability to flex those rules. Why cant we? You dont think you could have 'flexed' a little bit for my sentence above? Oy veh...

If thatsentence is "FlameBait or being Harsh" I think you need to open your eyes and start reading more threads. It would be an interesting wake up call.

JBLUA320
jetBlueA320@yahoo.com

BTW- Apologies if I was mean, but you asked for it.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:06 am

-Consistency in what is acceptable and what is not is a must. The fact that we've seen examples of threads that were not flattering to Europe have been locked or deleted, while simlutaneously threads not flattering to the U.S. have been allowed to meander on, is just a sign of consistency.

-The Mods, and indeed, the Administrator, need to do a better job in replying to serious emails from members. Even if an email is replied to, and the Mod or Johan do not agree with the member on their concern, just a bit of a personal touch and the impression that "hey, I heard you-I don't agree, but you're concerns are important" would go a LONG way, in my mind, to making this a better place.

-If one subject is to be limited, i.e, with the example of the I v. P threads, than that has to be the case for ANY subject with a high volumn. I'm not for limiting what is discussed, but if this site is to go in that direction, it should be evenly applied.

And I didn't want to add a personal note, but I feel I must, and my apologies to the Moderators. But SAS23, if I am to be deleted temporarily, as you suggest, then my friend, you should go right along with me. You always accuse me of that which you are guilty of, yet you don't see me going around here calling for your ass, do you? I do not agree with you in the least, on almost anything, but one of the great things about this forum is that we have people from all walks of life, from many nations, with many points of view, and for one member, like you, to try to silence me or anyone else through intimidation or innuendo. I resent it, but I will not respond in kind. If you want to be a child, go ahead. I will continue to make my views heard, and to defend my points of view, just as you do.

Again, I ask the indulgence of the Moderators on that last paragraph, but I finally felt I must speak in the wake of this continued attempt by one memeber to silence another memeber that he doesn't agree with..

Despite my many concerns I've raised on here, I don't think the Mods are doing a terrible job, but I just believe more consistency is required in some points. 174thfwff, thanks for the chance to help us improve the quality of this excellent site.

 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 12:03 pm

OK, since this has not been moved to the proper forum yet, I'll add my two cents. I had a post deleted that was deleted for some ridiculous reason.

It was an apology to a post I made in response to another member. When I questioned the moderator I received this response ; "Why don't you e-mail him?" Um, excuse me? I was apologizing for a post I made public. Should not my apology also be public?

Perhaps the moderator in question will read this and give a valid response to a simple question. Perhaps not.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 1:41 pm

My only grudge is with the copyright law thingy...I find it very discouraging, especially when I had a perfectly informational thread deleted on account of it. I for one find it a constant annoyance to have to click on a separate link to have to read an article that someone is referring to...two thoughts on the matter...if the article is already been posted on the web, therefore it is in the public domain. Things of this nature can be used as long as proper credit is given...I dont see why people cannot paste a whole article (if its super long thats another matter, however mine was real short)...was there some kind of actual legal issue here?

Otherwise you guys are doing a great job

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
Guest

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:59 pm

Just stop deleting stuff for godsakes. especially for like borderline stuff and other threads that people are seriously engaged in. if its an issue of bandwidth and cost, fine, tell us, but if you just love deleting stuff because its some power thing or whatever, just don't do it. it sucks.

tnnh

 
AMSMAN
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:24 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:59 pm

Actually, Not sure if this even makes a difference, but, the whole gay attitude on A.Net gets me confused. Confused in a way where one time I asked a question about gay people and lets just say if their was a prison cell handy I would have been condemned to it and beaten!!!

But since then, as I have said in another post, there has been about 5 (if not more) different posts about gay pilots, gay posters etc and only today ive seen a post regarding a Gay Airline! When I posted the post saying that "I meant no harm with my post" it was lucky to have reached the five minute mark before it was deleted!!

Maybe its just me, maybe you have to have been here for longer than 5 years and know everyone by first names before you can mention the word gay but I just find it confusing, a bit insulting in the way, (where not all posts are taken up the way they are meant to be especially when it has a better relevance than some posts here and then get flamed the way I did) but more confusing.

That's all I'll say on the subject!!

AMS
Aer Lingus, Proud to be Irish.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:51 pm

moderators, a point regarding the banning of people, take sas23 for example,
he calls people nazis and facists without any foundation, states that all israelis are legitmate targets for suicide bombers, questions the holocaust, questions sept 11 yet people dont go around screamign for his posts to be deleted.

yet simple posts such as i like xxxxx due to xxxx are deleted and anyone who stands up to people on airliners seems to be attacked. There need to be consitancy with moinitoring and that is not the case, its clear that some mods are biased to individuals and topics and this damages airliners.

Take for example hepkat, hes a nice guy, never insults anyone and is a good moderator yet he is posting on arab-israeli sites one minute and shutting them down the next when the tide turns against the palestinains.

and what is it with airliners and the posting of 'gay this' and 'gay that'??????
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:27 am

I'm with Go Canada. One thing that really bothers me is that is seems ok to me Anti-Israel, Anti-Semetic, and Anti-America but not ok to be Anti-Palestine, Amti-Muslim, or Anti-Europe. I think that It should be OK to be all of those except Anti-any relligion. I also think it is clear that mods don't read the whole thread, just a small bit, before deletion of a thread/post. They should read the whole thing.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (m

Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:32 am

Racko wrote:
(I think) think funny threads shouldn't be deleted, even if they are a flamebait if you take them serious. As an example, my "I hate Germany" thread.

Amen. I'm very much hoping Racko starts another "I hate Germany" thread when either the German team has won the match against South Korea or England is out for the second time. Big grin

Regards,
NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
Guest

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:04 am

I agree with Go Canada! and Flyboy36y but my solution is simple: just don't delete as much stuff. Then you keep protected from all this criticism and we can debate this stuff without acusations of bias.

tnnh
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:32 am

twa, i dont requestfor things to be deleted that often, the only time is when someone tried to question the holocaust.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:16 am

I just had a thread deleted for NO GOOD REASON. All I did was tell people I will be gone. Why delete it?! Mods need to stop deleting everything! And they should l;eave their contact information or a good message to explain what is the reason for deletion. The generic messages are vague and often don't apply.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:57 am

I hate to say this- but being the kind of person who usually sees the glass half empty, rereading this thread and many others it is hard not to say this site seems to be heading downhill a little bit.

I think it would be fitting to revise most of the policies that are instatuted here.

Just a thought, still, this is a great page.

JBLUA320
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
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RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (m

Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:33 pm

Moderators....

I am sensing a lot of opposition to deleting posts, because the perception is that it is not done consistently or even fairly.

Perhaps a better method may be for the mods to issue a public reprimand, right in the thread, to a member who has posted inappropriate remarks. That would make the plaintiffs happy, and might reduce the volume of objectionable posts. Not to mention the mods will be off the hook, since you will not delete any posts. (OK, you may have to delete a few.)

Instead of (or in addition to ) the "Suggest Deletion" button, you can have a "Suggest Reprimand" buttin.

Cheers,
Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:41 pm

And if a thread like my "Goodbye" seems irellevant, so what? People replied. It was just getting good when u deleted it. Other threads like "i've been here 2 year" were not deleted!
 
TNboy
Posts: 1115
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 8:12 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:47 pm

174thfwff: Good luck, but you are fighting a losing battle. Whenever any decision making is put out to committee it becomes a "lowest common denominator" decision making process, unless the committee is strongly led, clearly guided, and thoroughly briefed and trained. As you, and we, are discovering, it seems.
Cheers
Bill
"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
 
Guest

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Thu Jun 27, 2002 9:51 pm

Flyboy36y - stop whinging. Good grief, people on here travel all the time - what was so important about your announcing to the world you were going away?!?  Insane  Insane

There definitely needs to be stronger moderation - especially on here - and the stupider threads should be deleted before they get out of hand.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:15 am

Flyboy36y - stop whinging. Good grief, people on here travel all the time - what was so important about your announcing to the world you were going away?!?

This might be the only time I agree with SAS26.

Several strong and very valid statements have been made in this thread. Let's hope it is not falling on deaf ears....or maybe in this case blind eyes.
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: ATTN: Users Of Airliners.net From:174thfwff (mod)

Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:27 am

Look, I posted the thread bdecause I wanted to let people know I'd be going. I was also hopling someone would be like: "Hey, I'll be in DFW too!!". Anyway. He does not need to be such an ass about it. What ever happened to being polite and not so god-damned confrontational.

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