Pilot1113
Topic Author
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Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Wed Jun 26, 2002 8:44 am

CNBC is reporting that WorldCom has inflated $3.6 billion and could, ultimately, file for bankruptcy. Their auditor was none other than Anderson.

What's that sound I hear? I think it's our economy being flushed down the toilet.

Here's the link: http://www.msnbc.com/news/772330.asp

- Neil Harrison
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:25 am

I'll take the contrarian view and say that these corporate accounting scandals will be good for the economy. They're a way of separating the bad from the good, and in the long run will increase the credibility of corporate disclosures. Sunlight really is the best disinfectant.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
NUAir
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:47 am

They already announced the layoff of more then 17,000 employees it will be interesting to see how AA reacts to this one, if they can react at all.

Its very interesting that only one person has responded to what is looking to be the largest scandal in corporate American history......ties to the Bush administration? ohhh yeah, Worldcom is a huge donor to the republican party and like his friends at Enron, Bush maintains close relationships to Worldcom upper management.

Well at least the Euro is finally equal and set to pass the dollar so my paycheck is worth something when I go back to the states. Unfortunately our economy is collapsing to so going back to the states probably isn't that beneficial anymore if your looking for a job.

Hint to Bush, listen to Greenspan and raise interest rates for once so foreigners still have a reason to invest in America! and cut military spending don't quintiple it, military contracts have never helped the economy in the long run just the fat cats who get the military contracts and pocket all the money. Ben Ladin is alive and has already won the war. America has proven to be completely incompetent and has turned allies to enemies (this now includes our closest ally in Europe, England) and its own population into passive gullible sheep who listen to anything there incompetent leader and CNN tells them.

In addition I don't care if your republican, democrat, or something else its time to admit that Bush is the worst president that the US has ever had and has no right to spend another day in office. I would never vote republican (or democrat) but I would rather see McCain or even KROC in office rather then this idiot!!!
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
Guest

RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 1:07 am

Ugh my stock portfolio, down down down.

bring back clinton.
 
EGGD
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 1:15 am

Excuse my ignorance... but who are WorldCom?

 
David_itl
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 1:20 am


They are a telecoms company (the only office in Britain that I know is the one in Reading - they have given my company infrequent work. No doubt this has put a stop to that.)

Daivd
 
heavymetal
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:36 am

WorldCom, interestingly enough,, was supposed to be the "great right hope" in telecom. They were to telecom what Enron was to energy....a massive corporate entity run by staunch conservatives who gave a lion's share of their campaign donations to Republicans. Former WorldCom chief Bernie Ebbers is a born again Christian from Alabama who donated to a variety of conservative causes.

And, like Enron, apparently lied his ass off about earnings.

 
donder10
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:41 am

Also lent huge amounts of money to their ex-boss,Bernie Ebbers,who apparently used it to gamble on the company's stock price.
 
Super Em
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:42 am

It's funny how all these big corporations are riddled with fraud and Bush has close ties with them. Bush doesn't care about the economy right now. He is more interested in his so called war on terrorism. People are supporting him now but when the unemployment rate continues to rise in various states and Bin Laden is still around, I am sorry to say that I see trouble in the future for America.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:53 am

Any bets there will be another "terror alert" from Cheney and Rumsfeld by the weekend?

Again, keep people's minds off the sh*t that could actually put a dent in Dubya's popularity contest.

"What the American public DOESN'T know...is what makes them the American public"
 
Super Em
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:57 am

I could not have put it better myself heavymetal.
 
cfalk
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:05 am

Funny how people start pulling a Bush-Worldcom conspiracy, based on one ex-employee. In any case The company was founded and is still run by Bert Roberts, who is Canadian, if I am not mistaken - a long way from Texas.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:23 am

I was mistaken, Cfalk...Bernie Ebbers is from Canada but calls Mississippi, not Alabama, home.

I stand corrected.
 
prosa
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 5:33 am

Now that U.S. stock markets have been closed for about a half-hour, it's very interesting to see just what effect the WorldCom fiasco had. Overnight futures markets had predicted a bloodbath, and that's exactly what we had within the first 15 minutes of trading. Most of the rest of the day saw fairly narrow trading ranges. Yet the major indexes mounted powerful rallies in the last hour or so of trading and erased almost all of the opening drop. The NASDAQ in fact ended with a slight gain. Could today's early plunge really have been the much-awaited capitulation? The next few weeks should tell.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
sccutler
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:18 am

It is always amusing to see ill-informed commentary which suggests a "connection" with particular politicians and the failure of (f'rinstance) Enron or WorldCom.

Those whose range of thought actually includes any genuine understanding of conservative business and political reasoning know that, as the current accounting scandals bring true and accurate reporting of financial information back to the process, the markets will benefit.

...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
heavymetal
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:36 am

Ohhh, did we hit a nerve?

Everything under the friggin' sun was Bill Clinton's fault for 8 years and now the vaunted principles of free market, corporate responsibility and Republican deregulation fall smack dab on their greedy, self serving faces and you get 'sick?'

Funny....Bill Clinton had one set of lips in his crotch. Dubya Bush has about 50 million planted firmly on his ass.
 
LMP737
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 9:55 am

NUAir:

You accuse us of being gullible sheep who will listen to anything our "incompetent leader" and CNN tells us. Where do you get your information? By the nature of your post I would say that you have been believing the anti-US stories in the press in your country.

"Bin Laden is alive and has already won the war."

What do you base this comment on? Who knows if he's alive or not. Tell me, what has he won? He has lost his base of operations in Afghanistan, hundreds of his followers are dead and hundreds more captured. Doesn't sound like a win to me.

As for you calling Bush the worst president the US has ever had and an idiot it sounds like your believing all the anti-Bush press in your country. An other thing, what do you base your remarks on? Are you an expert on the history of the US presidency? While I do not agree with some of his policies, the massive farm subsidy bill and steel tariffs are two, I think he has done a good job so far overall. As for his intelligence I cannot comment since I do not have access to his IQ, ACT Scores or college grades. Maybe you do. If so, please share them with us.

Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 9:59 am

>>Well at least the Euro is finally equal and set to pass the dollar<<

When the economy rebounds there will be millions of europeans putting their money into the NYSE
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
heavymetal
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:31 am

When the economy rebounds

At this rate global plate shifting will have made the NYSE a part of Europe.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:17 am

Heavymetal-

Is someone disappointed with their 401(K)?  Smile

Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
NUAir
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:38 pm

Bush graduated high school with a C average...somehow he got into an ivy league school where again he graduated with a C average.... <--NY Times (I dont know if you consider that to be an anti-American source or not)

I know that grades dont mean everything but I think you should expect a little better from the leader of the most economicaly powerful country in the world.

As for pro-US stories, Im having trouble finding any, even from the American press (aside from the soccer team of course). Maybe you could help.

Bin Laden did win the war. His goal was to turn the world upside down and show the world the weakness of a superpower like the US. People are starting to see that the Palistinians are the ones who are suffering and when you see your wife and family killed by armed Israeli soldiers, your family house buldozed to make room for jewish immigrants from Argentina and its still illegal for you to have a gun to protect yourself you just might feel so low and so desperate that strapping a bomb on and blowing yourself and others up in revenge makes a lot of sense.

If Bush really wanted to end this war and the threat of terrorism in the US all he has to do is end all diplomatic relations with Israel, stop the sales of weapons to Israel and stop all public foreign aid to Israel. Even jewish people in the US and Europe are protesting against Israeli action and calling for a Palestinian homeland...So why on earth does the US continue to support Israel.........OIL. Israel represents stability in the middle east and gives the US a military base to protect oil interests in the middle east. If its not apparent to you yet that the Bush administration is connected with the Oil industry you should check out the US gov't website and see how many bills have been passed that benefit the oil industry (more then any other administration in the history of the US) with decreased polution restrictions, tax breaks (oil companies made record profits hense the need for tax breaks???), federal money for exploration and decreased regulations. This isnt comming from anti-US press this is comming from the US govt like the US energy bill S.517.

I am American and I'm not trying to be anti-american I'm just worried about my country and I dont feel that any private money from oil companies, telecom companies or any other business belongs in government. McCain and Feingold (sorry for my spelling) had it right on the finance reform bill but the public refused to listen and now we are paying for it. I fail to see how our current gov't is looking out for the interests of its people while it caters to lobyists and corporate financers.

But I guess disagreeing with the Bush adminstrations actions makes me anti-american.......strange I always thought that freedom of speech was one of the cornerstones of American life, but I guess even that has its restrictions when fighting the axis of evil.

KROC for pres. 2004!!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
Super Em
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:54 pm

End the war? Why would Bush want to do that. His popularity rating is soaring because of his war.If he ends it how will he get Americans behind him. People if the US Army wanted to get Bin Laden they would have captured him. I am sorry to say that the troops are not over there to stop terrorism.There's alot behind what I just said. Do your research and you'll know what I mean.
 
cfalk
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 6:06 pm

NUAir,

You have it backwards. Oil is the reason the EUROPEANS suck up to the Arab cause. Europe gets nearly 60% of their oil from the Middle East. The U.S. only gets around 25% of their oil from that region, and could easily tap other resources to make up the shortfall if the Arab countries try to play an embargo game. They don't NEED the Middle East. The U.S. did in fact learn something from the oil crises of the 70's and 80's. The Europeans did not, and cannot easily shift their suppliers to alternate sources.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
NUAir
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:41 pm

Cfalk,

Now you are talking out of your a**

For the fourth quarter of 2001 (latest available figures). The International Energy Agency who work with the OECD and are responsible for crude import figures used by every consulting company in the industry report the following.

For imports of crude oil, NGL and Refinery feedstocks. The US receives 29.38% from middle east countries while the EU receives 30.34% from middle east countries.

The EU is just as diverse as the US when it comes to Oil interests. US Diversification is turning out to be a huge advantage considering 25% of the other oil not coming from the middle East is coming from Venezuela where opposition to Chavez's state controlled oil company donated heavily to the Bush administration....any connection to the failed coup???

Bottom line is that the US has a huge military/oil interest in Israel which has a lot more to do with $3 billion + in aid then to stabilize a religious conflict that a majority of Americans know nothing about (75% of Americans cant identify Israel on a map).
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
NUAir
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:07 pm

CFalk,

The fact that CH gets 66.8% of their oil from one country in the middle east does not speak for the rest of Europe.

I know the Swiss love to think the continent revolves around them but in this case you guys are the exception not the rule.

BTW how much money from Libyan royalty-your preferred source of Oil (along with Nigeria and every other middle eastern country) is sitting in Swiss banks????
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
LMP737
Posts: 4810
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:25 am

NUAir:

So he had a C average in high school. He also has an MBA from Harvard. May I ask you a question. What's your view of Al Gore? If he were president what kind of things would you be saying about his intelligence? Just in case you did not know Al flunked out of seminary school and dropped out of law school. Using your logic I guess it's a good thing that Al's not president. Did you know that Jimmy Carter is considered one of the smartest presidents of the past century? He went to the Naval Academy and was in the nuclear program under Admiral Rickover. Now that's one smart cookie. However Jimmy Carter was also one of the most inept presidents we had in the past fifty years.

"As for pro-US stories, I'm having trouble finding any, even from the American press (aside from the soccer team of course). Maybe you could help."

Maybe your not looking hard enough. Or maybe you don't want to. Since you don't live in this country your more than likely exposed to anti-US reporting than the other way around. I noticed you quoted the NY Times. Let me fill you in on a little secret. The NY Times cannot be considered an un-biased source of information. By this I mean articles critical of the current administration. The NY Times is known to have a liberal/left view of the world.

As for Bin Laden "wining" the war, turning the world upside down and showing our "weakness" once again your wrong. In case you did not remember Bin Laden issue was US forces stationed on Saudi soil. He only took interest in the Palestinians when it became apparent to him that he might get support in the Arab world if he did so. If you recall the Palestinian authority disavowed any connection what so ever with Bin Laden.

"turning the world upside down....."

That's strange, the world seems to doing just fine. And as for our "weakness" did we not crush a government that had been in power for close to ten years?

"If Bush really wanted to end this war and the threat of terrorism in the US all he has to do is end diplomatic relations with Israel, stop the sales of weapons to Israel and stop all public foreign aid to Israel."

Now that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. First of all, like I mentioned above OBL main rallying cry is US troops on Saudi soil. Second of all you are naive to think that if the US does what you say that OBL(that's if he is still alive) will stop. He will not, and even if he did do you think the US will stop hunting him?

Let me also point out that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, Iran is a theocracy, Iraq is a dictatorship, Jordan is a constitutional monarchy, Egypt is just plain corrupt, Kuwait is a monarchy. Actually we should probably sever ties with these countries. Here's an idea, put your money where your mouth is and call on your government to sever ties with all these mid-east countries.

US military bases in Israel? Sorry pal the US has not bases in Israel. We do however have them in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.

You know what I find interesting? That you attack Bush's ties to the oil industry yet you work for "Petroleum Finance Company". Kind of makes you look like a hypocrite if you ask me.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:44 am

Is someone disappointed with their 401(K)?

No Pan Am, actually, through pure blunder on my part one afternoon about 3 years ago on the investment website , I switched a good chunk of my healthy 90s era 401(k) from high risk high earnings to far more conservative holdings. I only caught the mistake after about a year....and realized that that error saved me about 13 grand in money that would have evaporated.

What am I disspointed in? I'm dissapointed we "elected" a figurehead , and, just like the Reagan era, now have an Administration that feels the need to turn the economy piecemeal over to those who are NOT looking out for the "common welfare", ie their nation's best interest and not their own personal bank account. That the conservative obssession with free market is nothing but a sham, and it's about power, not freedom. That people like you think an Enron or a Worldcom or a Tyco are simply abberations and their exposure will make commerce healthier....never mind the thousands who've lost everything and the executives who have technically only flaunted the laws, not 'broken' them who float away to Nantucket wine parties on their Golden Parachutes.

I'm disspointed we've got religious wackos designing "anti-terror" divisions of the government that demand that any and all rights and freedoms in this country come secondary to their will.

I'm disspointed the extreme right, like an agressive cancer, is being allowed finally to make inroads into the mainstream, bringing their love of the phrase "F*ck Off" to what has been for many years now a society that seemed to tolerate diverse thought and opinion. Ann Coulter is a woman who has quite literally called for the murder of liberals. Now she's on Today, and her books are tops in Amazon.Com. If that gets a chuckle out of you, I'm sorry.

In short, I'm dissapointed in 2002. The right wing is having their heydey. They got to bitch and moan for 8 years of Clinton. Now it's my turn. You win some you lose some.

I guess it's just up to everyone else to figure out if 2002 makes them happy...or dissapointed.
 
prosa
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:52 am

Let me also point out that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, Iran is a theocracy, Iraq is a dictatorship, Jordan is a constitutional monarchy, Egypt is just plain corrupt, Kuwait is a monarchy.

For the record, the governments of Iran and Jordan have some democratic aspects, although neither country could be called a true democracy. It's entirely possible that both countries will become increasingly democratic over the next few years (it must be noted, however, that the opposite could happen too.)
While Egypt and Kuwait are not democracies by any stretch of the imagination, change cannot be ruled out entirely. Even Iraq might become a democracy in the post-Hussein era. Saudi Arabia's a hopeless case.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
cfalk
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:03 am

NUAir,

I don't mind getting into a discussion about facts, or at least our perception of them. My information was based on a CNN report I just happened to see this morning where they mentioned that Europe gets 58% of its oil from the Middle East. I have no way of double checking that. I looked up the International Energy Agency http://www.iea.org/statist/index.htm , but don't see any comparable figures by source, and don't have the time to dig much deeper. So I accept that you might be right and I be wrong. I would be interested to know where the EU gets its oil, if it is not from the ME.

However, your switch to personal attacks is inexcusable. You are an ass. I expect an apology.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:04 am

>>However, your switch to personal attacks is inexcusable.<<

I have been on a.net a long time and have never seen an argument without personal attacks.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
NUAir
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:35 pm

Cfalk,

Sorry, it was American slang and is an attack at your wrong facts not at you.

But what you said was directed at me and was a personal attack so you would be the one who owes me an apology.

LMP737,

I have said in several posts I would never vote republican or democrat so I could care less about Al Gore, and it upsets me that people always make arguments like this. Its not a "what if" situation. Bush is president Al Gore is not I don't care what Al Gores grades were or what he would be doing as president he was not elected if he had been I might be saying the same things about him. Its pointless to even talk about it. Bush is president and we need to hold him up to his job as our leader, as Americans we should expect the best which is exactly what we are not getting.

What I said about Israel was way over simplified and you are right but the point I'm trying to make is that billions of aid should not be going to a country that is endangering our own security by committing blatant acts of terrorism against the Palestinians.

As for working for a oil consulting company, we have very close connections to many republicans and democrats along with many oil execs, but I dont have to agree with anyone I just have to do my job. Regardless of what happens in the industry we still need oil. Because I work in the industry does that mean I have to agree with what industry leaders are saying? I guess you would think so since you don't seem to think Americans criticizing the govt is appropriate.

About Bin Laden I said the win the war thing because he exposed American foreign policy weaknesses, such as in the middle east with the palistinians.



"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:50 pm

It could be worse......

There are reports that Zerox overstated it's earnings by up to 6 Billion....

Thank god my 401K is in bonds Laugh out loud

http://money.cnn.com/2002/06/28/news/companies/xerox/index.htm
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:26 pm

Norway is one of the biggest oil exporters, Russia is also major exporter.
Asia is the big customer for ME oil, thats why don´t mess with the Asians....
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Pilot1113
Topic Author
Posts: 2276
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:42 pm

Did We Forget Global Crossing?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:01 pm

Global Crossing gave 2x more money to the Democrats than to the Republicans, but so far everyone seems to be bashing the GOP.

CNN had a graphic up yesterday showing how much money was donated to either party by the corrupt companies. It was pretty much even across the board. Two companies, Enron and WorldCom, gave more to Republicans and two companies, Adelphia and Global Crossing, gave more to Democrats.

To hold the Democrats as Mother Mary in this case is without base. They're in this just as much as the Republicans.

Before I leave, the economy doesn't care who's in office. The President has absolutely no control over the economy. He can say things about it and try to do things about it, but the more government intervenes in the economy the more it gets screwed up. The market has already taken care of companies like Enron and WorldCom. They are dead (for the most part), are they not?

- Neil Harrison
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:11 am

>>Because I work in the industry does that mean I have to agree with what industry leaders are saying?<<

If they tell you to do something do you do it? I could never work in a company where I never agreed with the leadership.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:39 pm

PanAm747,


I never said that I never agree with the leadership, I said I don't have to agree with everything they say. The oil industry does a lot of very negative things, but we still need it and depend on it. When I hear a client is doing something wrong I call them on it, notify the press and we publish papers.

I'm not going to go through my life passively watching the world get destroyed. And if anything I'm always going to be working for companies and industries that I agree with the least and challenge them to make things better. The problem with companies like Xerox, Worldcom and Enron is that nobody did that (who was in the right position), people just said we are making money and everything is good so why change.

-I say no stock options for any management or executives-
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
eg777er
Posts: 1782
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RE: Massive Fraud At WorldCom

Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:11 am

An excellent website to look at here is http://www.opensecrets.org which tells you exactly who gave what to who across the entire US political process.

Makes fascinating reading at the moment!

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