prosa
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Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:48 pm

If any two countries should be brought together by virtue of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" adage, it's Israel and India. Both have a general dislike of Muslims, both deal with Muslim terrorism, and both consider themselves paragons of democracy in largely non-democratic regions. Yet they don't seem particularly close. Why would that be?
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:57 pm

Actually, there are fast becoming allies. They have growing economic & military ties driven, in part, by their geographic location & proximity to Muslim enemies.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Rai
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Wed Jun 26, 2002 1:48 pm

PROSA says:
Both have a general dislike of Muslims, both deal with Muslim terrorism, and both consider themselves paragons of democracy in largely non-democratic regions.

Who said India dislikes Muslims? They only have the largest Muslim population on the planet! Granted, India seems to be the only place where Jews (they have a sizable Jewish population there as well) and Muslims seem to get along.

As far as Israel having no Muslim allies, what about Turkey? Turkey is a Muslim country and they have very good relations with Israel. I believe they even cooporate in eachothers defense programs.
 
EL-AL
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:19 pm

Israel and India are not very good friends, but India usually buy Israeli millitery items, and there are meny israelis who come to see India. As Ray said, Turkey is one of israel most imporetent friends, only USA is more importent to israel then Turkey.
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BarfBag
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:07 pm

Most co-operation between India and Israel is covert, and not in the public domain; in reality the amount of interaction would surprise a lot of people. Indo-Israeli cooperation is not driven by a larger picture of both being explicit US allies, the way Israel and Turkey are. India and US are militarily friendlym but not like Turkey-US. Most of the top Indian politicians are very pro-Israeli. The two countries are getting closer in other ways - more consulates are being opened and LOTS of Israelis coming to Goa for holidaying after their compulsory military service.

 
IndianGuy
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:09 pm

Hatred for Muslims? I wouldnt put it that way. India has more muslims thany other country after Indonesia. But we do face the same kind of terrorist strikes with terrorists striking at our locations and getting away with no more than filibustry from the White House. So in that sense there is common sense of hurt and there has been an attempt to come together on that front.

Israel has recently overtaken France and UK to emerge as the second largest supplier of arms to India after Russia! There has been lenty of covert supply of technologies as well, most notably in the field of ground and air based radars which Israel has very kindly supplied away frm the prying eyes of the Yanks.

In non-military areas there has been an increase in co-operation as well, like in the exchange of agricultural technologies developed in each others countries for eg. It can only get better.

-Roy
 
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:26 am

India and Israel have a complicated relationship. They have a very strong and successful defense relationship, Israel sells everything from howitzer upgrades to unmaned spy drones.

India is also one of the largest destinations for travelling young Isrealis. Many many go.

However, India is in no rush to upset the Arab states which a close relationship with Israel would bring. The Arabs are no fans of Pakistan, and cheap Arab oil is very important to India, as it is to every country in the world.

I don't like Peter's line that both hate/dislike Muslims. India has a large Muslim population although Rai is wrong, India is not the largest Muslim nation. India has had past Muslim Prime Ministers and celebrities. I don't believe Israel has any hatred to Islam, Israel has Muslims in knesset, subsidizes the construction of mosques and affords full rights to all Israeli citizen Muslims. Both instead have a hatred/dislike of Islamic terror just as the US does and some Arab countries but noticeably not the Palestinian Authority.

TNNH
 
Rai
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:45 am

I stand corrected. India's Muslim's population is about 120 million, compared to Indonesia's 200 million. India must have the second largest Muslim population in the world.
 
prosa
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:52 am

I don't like Peter's line that both hate/dislike Muslims. India has a large Muslim population although Rai is wrong, India is not the largest Muslim nation. India has had past Muslim Prime Ministers and celebrities. I don't believe Israel has any hatred to Islam, Israel has Muslims in knesset, subsidizes the construction of mosques and affords full rights to all Israeli citizen Muslims. Both instead have a hatred/dislike of Islamic terror just as the US does and some Arab countries but noticeably not the Palestinian Authority.

I'll qualify what I said. India does not hate Muslims per se, but more so than any country except Israel and the United States has suffered at the hands of militant Islam. It will be interesting to see whether Indian leaders and citizens can maintain the "good Muslim/bad Muslim" distinction as terrorism gets worse. It is rather noteworthy that the events of September 11th did not turn into mass hatred of Muslims in the United States. Most Americans were able to draw a distinction between al-Qaeda and ordinary Muslims. India may not be able to do as well, as its political and social structure is considerably less stable than America's.
For the record, I'd have to say that India is not entirely free of blame in the Kashmir situation. It's not entirely Islam's fault.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Rai
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 1:33 am

I think this article explains the relationship between Israel and India pretty well.

http://www.atimes.com/ind-pak/DF26Df02.html
 
Guest

RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:00 am

Oh yeah after the devestating Gugarat eathquake last year, Israel quicky sent a large contingent of highly trained doctors and rescue workers to search for those burried under the rubbel and treat those rescued. pictures are below. Israel has helped Turkey often in the past too.

pictures of Israeli rescue operation in Gugarat after devestating earthquake:
http://www.idf.il/english/idf_in_pictures/2001/february/india_new.stm

click on the text.

tnnh
 
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:01 am

Turkey has been shunned by the Arab world because of it's ties with NATO so it is a exception to the rules.
 
Rai
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:18 am

Boeing_in_pdx says:
Turkey has been shunned by the Arab world because of it's ties with NATO so it is a exception to the rules.

Not necessarily. Turkey has territorial issues with some Arab countries, notably Syria, but they have pretty good relations with Egypt, some of the Gulf nations and Jordan. Their relations with Iraq are even improving (albeit slowly) and prior to the Gulf War, Iraq was Turkey's biggest trading partner. Relations are not perfect with the Arabs, but not all that hostile.

If there seems to be detatchment from the Arab world, it's because Turkey thinks of itself more a part of Europe or the West than Arab World. Turks are not ethnically Arab and their language is part of the Altaic group (which means it is more similar to Mongolian and Finnish than it to Arabic). They would like nothing better than to be a full-fledged member of the EU, where they've been denied entry several times -- mostly because of Greek objections.
 
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:36 am

Why do the greeks and turks hate each other? is it because Turkey used to be part of greece but that was like 2,000 years ago.
 
Rai
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:53 am

Boeing_in_pdx says:
Why do the greeks and turks hate each other? is it because Turkey used to be part of greece but that was like 2,000 years ago.

That goes waaaaaaaaaaaaay back! You could write a whole history book on that topic.
 
prosa
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:47 am

They [Turkey] would like nothing better than to be a full-fledged member of the EU, where they've been denied entry several times -- mostly because of Greek objections.

I had thought the issue was the other EU countries' fear of Turkish migrants if Turkey became a member.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:33 am

There are a host of reasons why Turkey's interest in the EU is not shared by many EU members:
1. Turkey is a muslim state.
2. Turkey's huge population.
3. Turkey's low PCI.
4. Existing problem in many EU countries absorbing Turkish economic migrants.
5. Turkey's civil rights issues.
6. Strong opposition by Greece.
7. Other entrants with a higher pecking order.
8. Concerns about Turkey's relatively unstable Eastern border neighbours.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Rai
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:36 am

PROSA says:
I had thought the issue was the other EU countries' fear of Turkish migrants if Turkey became a member.

It could be a factor, and there are many, but the main reason why Turkey has yet to join the EU is because of Greek objections. Another factor is how the Turks treat their ethnic Kurdish population -- the EU would like to see improvement on that. Most EU countries would accept Turkey into the organization, but Greek objections, based mostly on historical reasons, have prevented Turkey from joining thusfar.
 
Guest

RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:45 am

Actually Turkey's relationship with its former miltantly hostile Kurdish minority has improved dramatically to a point where Turkey can teach Israel a few lessons on how to quell an uprising. I wish they would, Israel needs to try something else.
 
Guest

RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:41 pm

Does Israel have any other allies than USA Turkey and Canada? i think Sri Lanka is a ally.
 
Guest

RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:54 am

germany loves to claim they are one of israel's best friends, but they aren't. at the first site of israel defending itself, the fatherlanders go nuts.

although, israel now has some of the most advanded nuclear subs in the world which include seaborn nuclear weapons launchers courtesy of the germans and for not a lot of shekels, also courtesy of the germans.

so maybe they aren't THAT bad.  Big grin
 
Guest

RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:21 pm

Ok but what about Sri Lanka I would relay like to know the status of Israel and Sri Lanka. And those subs aren't nuclear
 
Guest

RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:05 pm

they can launch nuclear missiles, thats what i mean
 
Guest

RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:27 pm

But the Germans did not supply them with anything nuclear. Just diesel subs.
 
ryanb741
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:45 pm

Turkey is not allowed in the EU because of it's Human Rights problems - e.g. it still uses the death penalty.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Alessandro
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:00 pm

Well fuel on the fire, they both dislike Pakistan and there´s actually a Jewish
group in Israel from India. They trade a lot between India and Israel, many
Israelis go on holiday to India, but not everyone likes them in India, I´ve seen
pictures of shops with painted signs, "No Israels", probably Muslim owned?
I would like to add that Turkey is not a Muslim state (no state religion in Turkey, because of Kemal Ataturk) and have a good relation with Israel.....
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KAUSpilot
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Sat Jun 29, 2002 3:02 am

Last time I checked Turkey was part of AISA. Maybe this has something to do with them not being allowed into the EUROPEAN union.
 
Guest

RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Sat Jun 29, 2002 3:24 am

´ve seen
pictures of shops with painted signs, "No Israels",


America used to be like that except it usually read "No Jews or Dogs".

tnnh
 
Alessandro
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RE: Why Aren't Israel And India Close Allies?

Sat Jun 29, 2002 3:30 am

Kauspilot, Turkey is mainly in asia, but there´s european part on the left
side of Bosporos, the west side of Istanbul is in europe, the east side in
asia
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