jm-airbus320
Posts: 294
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:49 am

Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:33 pm

Fidel said he was considering cutting ties with the US. I know many people might say, so what or don't care. But really, who does need Cuba? Is it America or is it the Republicans?

Jm-airbus320
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:38 pm

Who needs Cuba? Nobody as far as I am concerned. Overall, what does Cuba offer us? A vacation spot (there are tons better), cigars (Dominicans are better), culture (hey, its always nice to learn other cultures, but at what cost with Cuba?). And why would the republicans need Cuba? what am I missing here?
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:42 pm

Well, another question. This topic is just another weird one...

I could also ask my self why should Switzerland need Liechtenstein, why should UK need Ireland, why should China need Hong Kong etc...

Well, I think every country has something special to offer and every country can be something special in its own way. It might be that people are not that interested in the thing a country has to offer and you might not agree with a political situation in a country but there might be people who like it and even people who are proud of their own country.

I don't have a problem if America or the Republicans (?) don't need Cuba. I like it and I would love to go there once. I only say BACARDI (which was originally from Cuba and had to move to Bahamas I think).

Cheers
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Guest

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:27 pm

Certain politicians, including one residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington, D.C. and his brother in Tallahassee, find the Cuban status quo quite desirable.

Why? Because launching well-timed initiatives under the guise of trying to remove Fidel Castro helps secure votes in one of the country's largest states and impresses the well-funded Cuban-American National Foundation.

Of course, the status quo is quite cosy for Fidel Castro himself, in spite of his public claims to the contrary. As long as he can blame his own mismanagement on an external enemy, he can deflect attention from his own dodgy record on economic development and human rights.

In the end, for all the barbs exchanged between Washington and Havana, the U.S.-Cuban relationship is a comfortable and predictable one that serves politicians in both capitals quite well.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:18 am

It's all basic math.....

The top half of Florida is southern conservatives who will vote Republican until they die (and even afterward, as has been proven in the past.)

The bottom half of Florida is transplanted Northeast and Midwesterners far more moderate and receptive to Democratic ideas than the redne...uhh, northerners.

The very definition of "pivotal swing vote" are the half million Cubans in Miami-Dade and South Florida. The exiles of 40 years ago bred their affiliation to whoever hates Fidel the loudest, which, till now, has been the Republicans (and their pathetically hypocritical stance towards communist Cuba versus communist China).

That has remained the zeitgeist for a better part of the last few decades, but things are changing. The exiles are dying off and the first generation of American born Cubans have matured and are having kids of their own. Education dollars, money to fix South Florida's hopelessly overcrowded infrastructure, money for more cops...the issues that are important to everyday Americans, not just Cubans...are taking priority in their lives over how fast the Beard gets bounced.

Al Gore sensed this in the election of 2000 and actually (against the vehement opposition of his handlers) made some conciliatory gestures towards South Florida's Cubans. The strategy may have been the right idea at the wrong time (coming so fresh after the Elian saga). His efforts fell flat and many Dems think they may have cost him the election.

Cuba remains a uniquely Republican obssession.
 
LMP737
Posts: 4800
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:28 am

No US president, democrat or republican, is going to open up trade to Cuba while Castro is still around. Why, because they would lose the Cuban vote in Florida. If you lose Florida you will more than likely lose the election.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:48 am

Well, Canadian, European & Mexican businesses are cashing in on the US-Cuban embargo. So who really in the US is winning from the embargo? Certainly not Wall Street (or Main Street). US business will never NEED Cuba but there are substantial economic benefits that normal relations would bring.

Clearly though, Cuba has demonstrated it CAN survive without the US. Cuba has good infrastructure, fantastic resorts, great culture and a human rights record better than many US allies (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, China). Other than cheap politics, there is no reason for the US embargo.

The embargo is hypocritical and sullies the US image abroad. Let's face it: the US picks on Cuba because it CAN pick on Cuba.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:57 am

I think the embargo is ridiculous. Hell, we have free trade with China, and they are Communists and have a worse human rights record than Cuba.

Fortunately it appears more and more business people are watching Canadians, Europeans, etc. clean up, and are pressuring Bush to open up Cuba. And younger Cubans in Florida are not so militantly hostile towards Castro and would like to see improved relations too.

Hopefully normalized trade relations will happen soon. The US is being foolish about Cuba.

"ooohhh let's not anger the Cubans in Florida..." give me a break.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 5:53 am

If ANY U.S. president were to open trade with Cuba under Castro, it would have to be a Republican. Remember the ancient Vulcan Proverb: "Only Nixon could go to China"?  Smile Same is true with Cuba-a democrat would be crucified for trying to open trade with Cuba, and would be called "soft on communism". A Republican, however, from the party of McCarthy and Nixon, could get away with it as being an "open-minded" statesman. It's just the way it works sometime.

The embargo against Cuba is outdated and counter-productive anymore, despite Cuba's less-than-stellar human rights record. If we can trade with China, why not Cuba? Well, I can answer that-Cuba doesn't have a billion and half consumers.  Smile
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 5:58 am

a democrat would be crucified for trying to open trade with Cuba

I don't see any holes in Jimmy Carter's wrists? He undertook a fairly successful trip earlier in the Spring.
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4260
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:10 am

Why does Canada need Quebec?

 Big grin

 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:51 am

What are the pros for trading with Cuba?

It's a third world country that can't even buy medicine or shoes, so what do we have to gain?
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:53 am

I forgot, how about life rafts  Smile
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:46 am

It's one of the sad byproducts of present US policy....Cubans know if they reach US soil, they can stay here. So thousands light out across the straits of Florida...arguably one of the most savage stretches of ocean in the western hemisphere. It's only 90 miles, but with a fast moving current going east/northeast fighting heavy winds blowing west, the seas get enormous...very quickly. A duckpond calm morning can turn into ferocious waves by noon.

Of course you rarely see the victims wash up because the area is positively teeming with large sharks.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:56 am

What's really "funny" is that the Cubans in Florida send a ton of money back to Cuba each year to their families. Apparently, it is OK to give money (and send things) to Cuba ONLY if the Cubans in question are extended family members.

Of course, actually letting ALL Cubans enjoy the benefits of free trade would be horrible....  Insane
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:14 am

I don't see any holes in Jimmy Carter's wrists? He undertook a fairly successful trip earlier in the Spring.

He is not a sitting president, Heavymetal, that's the difference. That's a BIG difference. Had he tried to do the same thing when he was living at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., the Republicans would have callled for his impeachment.
 
Guest

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:48 am

PanAm747 wrote: "It's a third world country that can't even buy medicine or shoes, so what do we have to gain?"

I've heard that Archer Daniel Midland (ADM) and Cargill Corporation, both in agribusiness, are interested in getting into Cuba. Word has it that the major fast-food chains have already picked out potential locations. U.S. travel agents and the hotel industry are bound to be interested as well -- there's an active black/gray market for Americans traveling to Cuba via Canada or Mexico that they've been denied access to, thanks to an embargo that makes for good politics but lousy policy.

Many other dirt-poor countries with human rights records worse than Cuba's are fair game for trade -- and should be, given the positive effect of trade in drawing attention to these problems.

Why not give people the option of vacationing or investing in Castro's Cuba, aside from the politically self-serving electoral and election-financing considerations?

 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:50 am

Mcdougald:
I've figured out how to get around that stupid embargo. Big grin
Bring back the Concorde
 
Guest

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:03 am

A lot of Americans are getting around it. One source estimated the number of Americans going to Cuba without Washington's blessing to be about 200,000 just in 1999 alone.

It underlines the fact that the embargo isn't even being taken too seriously anymore.
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Sat Jun 29, 2002 3:55 am

"he top half of Florida is southern conservatives who will vote Republican until they die"

Dont be so one sided, more died in Missouri......remember that...even the candidate lol
 
zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Sun Jun 30, 2002 1:55 am

Heavy metal doesn't know how not to be one sided. Thats all he knows how to do. He hates republicans, christians, democracy and anything conservitive. Go hug a tree and a socialist heavymetal and maybe Jimmy Carter.

Besides Heavy, you shouldn not want trade w/ cuba. Think what big bad america will do to globalize cuba's people. Wouldn't we cause just big corporate harm????
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:36 am

I only say BACARDI (which was originally from Cuba and had to move to Bahamas I think).

Say BACARDI all you want and even visit the Bacardi family in Florida, where they live, unwelcome by Castro who despises all profitable ventures. (Yes, Castro's predecessor, the American backed Batista, was just as bad, another example of the US mistakenly supporting a government that cannot exist on its own: this never works)

Swissgabe, you love any nation that is on the United States enemy list, so of course you want to go to Cuba. I doubt if you have any more interest in Cuba vis-a-vis any other Caribbean nation, but since they have angered America, you like them. It must have been tragic for you when communism fell in the USSR and E. Europe so you had to take all those countries off of your 'plan to visit' list.

Your sentence I repeat above is why Cuba was put on the American enemy list - why do you think Bacardi had to move to Puerto Rico, - not the Bahamas? Because Castro eliminated all private enterprise - and destroyed a lot of infrastructure and eliminated an educated class through jail or exile that could have been used to build a Cuban democracy, which Castro promised.

BTW: I would like to visit Cuba and wish the US would eliminate all restrictions. The sanctions are just a play for S. Florida Cuban voters, still angry at Castro. Note to foreigners: US foreign policy is OFTEN controlled by the will of a small domestic group - all they have to do is be vocal. There are many cultural and economic opportunities for America in Cuba.

kind regards,

RogueTrader

 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Sun Jun 30, 2002 5:15 am

Note to foreigners: US foreign policy is OFTEN controlled by the will of a small domestic group - all they have to do is be vocal.

---Well, if the majority of American voters LET this happen, then is it the will of the American people. Whether controlled by the Miami Cubans or not, the American embargo on Cuba IS for all Americans. It is also a shameful, two-faced policy given some of the undesirable murderous dictator-allies that the US govt goes to bed with each night.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Sun Jun 30, 2002 7:31 am

Heavy metal doesn't know how not to be one sided.

A brief scan of some of my posts will show you that's not true.

Thats all he knows how to do. He hates republicans

The best vote I ever cast was for a Republican, and the only money I've ever given to a campaign was for a Republican.

christians

I'm one. Next.

democracy

I'm one of the millions of people who didnt vote for George Bush, was skeptical of the Florida recount decision, and, with few exceptions, aren't really crazy about how he runs the country. But he's my President.

and anything conservitive.

I don't hate anything consevative, Zeus, but I gotta tell you I don't have a lot of fondness for the mindwashed zombified kind that you seem to be growing into.

Go hug a tree and a socialist heavymetal and maybe Jimmy Carter.

Grow a public hair or two, go buy "Volume II" of "Inane Insults To Hurl At People Who Don't Agree With You"(Limbaugh Publishing, $29.95)....and while you're at it, open your mind, cause there's just a knat's dick chance that your ass will follow.
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?

Sun Jun 30, 2002 10:22 am

Swissgabe, you love any nation that is on the United States enemy list, so of course you want to go to Cuba. I doubt if you have any more interest in Cuba vis-a-vis any other Caribbean nation, but since they have angered America, you like them.

An ironic statement from someone who's anti-Israeli rants are far more virulent & hateful than the more balanced statements from Swissgabe.

Castro eliminated all private enterprise - and destroyed a lot of infrastructure and eliminated an educated class through jail or exile that could have been used to build a Cuban democracy, which Castro promised.

This shows how little you know about Cuba. Private enterprise is allowed in Cuba, albeit not with the same freedoms as in the US. Canadian & European firms are thriving in Cuba in joint ventures with the Cuban govt.

Cuba, incidently, while nationalizing all industries soon after the revolution, offered compensation to the multi-nationals.....but the US govt balked at this offer, hence US companies lost out on compensation. An interesting side-note....the US has still not compensated the British for land & assets seized during the American revolution....perhaps this should be settled first.






I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DocLightning and 41 guests