godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:15 pm

I was just thinking about this here...
If a person who isn't a Jew from any country (but friends with Israel) would apply for an Israeli citizenship would they also expect him/her to serve in the Army there or would they for safety reasons exclude a "new member of the family"?

Does their Army work together a lot with other nations (NATO?) or do they want to keep their Army to themselves (no maneuvers together or so)?

Max
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:11 am

The IDF Air Force and Navy practice a lot with their Turkish equivalents and the US to a more limited extent. Little real contact with other countries, including NATO members.

I believe age is a factor in naturalized Israelis being drafted into the IDF (older immigrants would serve in reserves only, those that are over 30 or so will not be requested to serve at all).

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:20 am

Israel practices with other militaries, especially Turkey. During the good times, they even conducted maneuvers with the Jordanians, whom while not nearly as good as the Israelis, probably have the best trained Arab army.

I've seen pictures of the IDF with Germany troops.

tnnh
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 3:47 am

I heard that IDF also have training exercises with Taiwan. Is that true?
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 8:55 am

yeah israel used to train with taiwan and south africa as all three were sort of well developed, but pariah states.

israel has let the taiwan relationship slip as interest in selling arms to china has grown, although the us has put a big block on israel's arms sales to the communist nation.

tnnh
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:00 am

I heard that IDF also have training exercises with Taiwan. Is that true?

It's true.

And I wouldn't want to join the most biased and stupid military on earth.
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:49 am

join the most biased and stupid military on earth.

What the hell is that all about??
 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 10:05 am

Well Jiml, I'm surprised. AN ARMY OF A SPECIFIC COUNTRY IS GENERALLY BIASED TOWARD THE COUNTRY IT SERVES. Have I been wrong to assume this?
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 10:22 am

"And I wouldn't want to join the most biased and stupid military on earth"

Repeatative statements of that sort make only one person (as an organization cannot be) look "biased" and "stupid".  Insane

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 10:42 am

But Israel's move is way out of control. They acts like other communist country.

My comments about Israel from the past, to now, and in the future, are only towards the Israel Government.
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 11:07 am

Jim Learn to speak English!
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 11:10 am

Out of control! There has not been one bombing or shooting since the Operation started! It works.
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 11:14 am

And I wouldn't want to join the most biased and stupid military on earth"

Whether you want to join or not is, of course, your business, and no one will take issue with that. We respect your feeling. However, some of us DO take issue with your calling the Israeli Army biased and stupid. Who are you to make such a judgment? At most you can say that you do not agree with Israel's actions, and we can respect that, too.

You have lost a lot of credibility among serious members by your simply belittling your opponent or his idea without effectively arguing the issues.

Jim1126, am I getting through to you, and to others like you?

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:12 pm

Delta,

We are citizens of the world that look at the bias and stupidity of the military of the country you call Israel. Their gross indiference to the lives and liberties of others is well documented, as for the comments about them behaving like communists, well their refusal to allow media to report on their actions are also well documented.

So Delta, we have every right to voice our opinions if we choose to do so .. just as you have a right to disagree. Feel free to counter my argument if you can, they were:

1. The military of Israel is showing depraved indiference to the lives and liberties of others (not just the so called terrorists they are after).

2. They are denying the media the right to accurately report on the goings on within a country other than their own.




VH-ADG
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:30 pm

d I wouldn't want to join the most biased and stupid military on earth.

Yeah, I'd stay from the Iraqi army too.

What a damn-fool statement that was, Jim. Unbelievable.
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:08 pm

The military of Israel is showing depraved indiference to the lives and liberties of others (not just the so called terrorists they are after).

So called terrorists??? Your unreal. Is blowing up a civilian pizza parlor not terror?? Answer me that.



 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:27 pm

TWA,

Your simplistic thinking is what we consider unreal. There are a whole bunch of issues to consider here.

1. Isreal declared war on Palestine, therefore none of these attacks are terrorist attacks any more, they are simply freedom fighters fighting a war the best way they know how.

2. We have been given no proof that these "terrorists" the Israelis are killing are indeed terrorists, we have only the Isrealis word on that and we all know their history of dishonesty. In fact, those 6 year old kids being killed in marketplaces and so forth appear to be terrorists of the worst kind aren't they? Remember, it was Isreal who put a ban on the media, not Palestine.

3. Seems to me that it's OK by you guys to have "collateral damage" when it's in Palestine, but not so when it happens in Israel.

So yeah, I think blowing up civlians in a Pizza Parlour is terror, but then so is killing children who are shopping with their parents in a Palestinian marketplace. You see the first as worse than the second, but only because it was in Israel, I find the second far worse than the first because it is done with government backing by soldiers!. You appear not to care about the dead innocent Palestinians, lumping them into the category of "terrorist".

So yes, I'll stick with the term "so called terrorists".





VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 12:52 am

You see the first as worse than the second

Your damn right I do for 3 reasons, 1) because they were not deliberately targetted 2) because there have been many less of them 3) the people who did the killing (IDF) apologized immediately and pledged to investigate so it would never happen again.

the hamas, al aksa, etc.. never apologize after their terror, they deliberately attack civilian sites to sow terror in the hearts of motehrs and children, and there have been many more israeli casualties of terror than those children killed when israel mistakenly shot at people who were breaking curfew.

tnnh
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 1:56 am

we have every right to voice our opinions if we choose to do so

Indeed, you do, and you have, as you always do.  Smile
I was just trying (in vain, probably) to impress upon the younger generation in this forum that discussion should focus on issues, not calling names. It would not hurt anyone to learn some good debating practises. But of course, everyone is free to say whatever one pleases, and it's always easier to resist than to do something new and different.

Pete  Smile
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Stratofish
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:38 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 1:59 am

Please let me just voice my opinion and say that I think it´s a really immature and superstupid thing you´re thinking about.
To join an army is bad enough, but joining one whose leaders are sooo bloodthirsty and stupid and criminal and...

Show you are a good human being and don´t spin that thought further!

Stratofish
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 7:09 am

Your damn right I do for 3 reasons,

Actually, you have only one reason. You are far to close to the issue to look at it in a non-biased way.

1) because they were not deliberately targetted

Rubbish. An Australian woman tells us how the tank pointed the weapons at her and the rest of the peaceful protesters and opened fire. That's deliberate as is shooting randomly into a crowded marketplace or targetting people with snipers.

2) because there have been many less of them

Kill ration is 1 Israeli to every 4 Palestinians ...

3) the people who did the killing (IDF) apologized immediately and pledged to investigate so it would never happen again.

They say the words and then they do it again. Lip service to their cash cow and nothing more. We're used to Israeli dishonesty now.

the hamas, al aksa, etc.. never apologize after their terror,

and neither to the Israelis unless they are caught out which is proving more and more difficult as they remove the independant media from the area (that's when they're not shooting them).

they deliberately attack civilian sites to sow terror in the hearts of motehrs and children,

I'm aware of the way terrorists work, but I suspect the sight of an Israeli soldier/tank now sews terror into the hears of mothers and children in Palestine. Where's the difference?

and there have been many more israeli casualties of terror than those children killed when israel mistakenly shot at people who were breaking curfew.

Actually, I think you will find there have been far more INNOCENT Palestinian deaths than Israeli deaths, stop plying your propoganda. Israel attacked the Church of the Nativity, nothing is sacred in Israels quest for genocide.

Terrorists are the scum of the earth, whether they are muslim or jew.





VH-ADG
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 7:45 am

To join an army is bad enough, but joining one whose leaders are sooo bloodthirsty and stupid and criminal and...

Show you are a good human being and don´t spin that thought further!


What's bad about joining an army, Stratofish? For a lot of people, it's a great place for a career. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it "bad" for someone else. And bloodthirsty, stupid and criminal? I think you talk about Iraq there, not Israel. If you think they're bloodthirsty, I ask you to consider what that military could do if Israel so wanted them to do it-there wouldn't be a palestinian left alive now if they were bloodthirsty. As for the rest, just a fools ramblings, I imagine.
 
PANYNJ
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 1:47 pm

kill ration 1 to 4?? yeah well subtract from that all the terrorists attacking israelis and youll be quite surpirsed.
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 2:00 pm

Out of control! There has not been one bombing or shooting since the Operation started! It works.

There are alternative ways to get out of control. Let's say, kill 400 poor Palestanians, then hide their bodies before the International investigation team arrives, and later refuse them to get in and see what really happens?
(This happened months ago)

So called terrorists??? Your unreal. Is blowing up a civilian pizza parlor not terror?? Answer me that.

Yes. So-called terrorists. Israel has no rights to call the Palestanian terrorists, because the Israel is currently led by a terrorist. (Who did several massacres in the past)

What a damn-fool statement that was, Jim. Unbelievable.

If you think it's unbelievale, fine. But you're not in the position to tell me my statement was a damn-fool.
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 3:50 pm

Panynj,

Actually, the number of suicide bombers is quite low in the huge death count. Many dead Palestinians include women who died at the border unable to get to a hospital for assistance during childbirth and children shopping with their parents in a marketplace.

Propoganda isn't what is being discussed here, the truth is.





VH-ADG
 
PANYNJ
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 3:59 pm

Actually, the number of suicide bombers is quite low in the huge death count.

source?

Many dead Palestinians include women who died at the border unable to get to a hospital for assistance during childbirth and children shopping with their parents in a marketplace.

source?

yeah ill wait patiently!
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:51 pm

The vast majority of Palestinian casualties are militia men
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Mon Jul 01, 2002 7:53 pm

Go read yourself ...

http://www.dci-pal.org/english/dcipress/releases/2001/0010.html

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/index.asp

http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/mde/israel+and+the+occupied+territories+!Open
More than 460 Palestinians were killed during 2001 by the Israeli security forces; most were unlawfully killed. Among the victims were 79 children and 32 individuals targeted for assassination. More than 2,000 Palestinians were arrested for security reasons. There were widespread reports of police brutality. Palestinian detainees frequently reported that they were tortured or ill-treated during interrogation. At the end of the year at least 40 people were under administrative detention. At least 33 conscientious objectors were imprisoned during 2001. Hundreds of Palestinians from the Occupied Territories were tried before military courts in trials whose procedures fell short of international standards. Collective punishments against Palestinians included closures of towns and villages, demolition of more than 350 Palestinian homes and prolonged curfews. Palestinian armed groups killed 187 Israelis, including 154 civilians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,193466,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,492238,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,203133,00.html
note the term "in most cases"

http://www.btselem.org/English/Freedom_of_Movement/Al_Aqsa_Death_after_Delay.asp
this makes frightening reading

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1780000/1780051.stm

http://www.mediamonitors.net/salehabdeljawad1.html

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Al_Aqsa_Fatalities.asp

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Total_Casualties.asp

http://www.parcenter.org/Resources/Chronology/Chronology.html

Page 1 of a search in google.....






VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:14 am

The vast majority of Palestinian casualties are militia men

Do you really believe everything that Israel Government tells you?
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:37 am

Do you really belive everything the PA tells you?
 
PANYNJ
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:07 am

from your posting adg...


"Among the [arab] victims were 79 children"... YET..... "Palestinian armed groups killed 187 Israelis, including 154 civilians."

thanks for confirming my point!

 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:29 pm

Panynj,

I confirmed nothing with regards to your point. The figures you grabbed are meaningless in the context in which you posted them.




VH-ADG
 
PANYNJ
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:45 pm

hardly.

you posted some figures of people who were killed. 79 palestinian children and 154 Israeli civilians.

this comes right from your posting!

line 1....Among the victims were 79 children

line 9.....Palestinian armed groups killed 187 Israelis, including 154 civilians.


sorry woman, this is all from you, don't blame me  Laugh out loud
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

Joining The Army

Tue Jul 02, 2002 7:31 pm

Im still on the decision to move back to Israel to go serve.
Im at the age right now (18), ive already got my relase from the army.
but I will most likely end up moving back to Israel and doing the army.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:51 pm

Panynj, instead of quoting the bit you say "proves" your point, why not quote the ENTIRE beginning of the paragraph? It is:

"More than 460 Palestinians were killed during 2001 by the Israeli security forces; most were unlawfully killed. Among the victims were 79 children and 32 individuals targeted for assassination." (My emphasis on the first figure).

460 divided by 187 gives a ratio of approximately 2.5 Palestinians killed for every Israeli.

Or do you have difficulty in differentiating between the words "civilian" and "children"?

David
 
Guest

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Tue Jul 02, 2002 10:29 pm

Thanks David,

What he also left out was the time period. Guess he was to busy trying to slap in there a childish and derogatory "woman" comment to actually think about what he was writing.

Is it school holidays already?




VH-ADG
 
PANYNJ
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Want To Serve In The Israeli Army

Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:00 am

I'll tell you why I have a problem with the 460 number... It's simply too vague. Who were these 460, well we know 79 children, well they are never supposed to be killed, so I agree Israel did wrong killing 79 children, but that leaves 460-79= 381 others who were killed who we have no idea who they are other than they were unlawfully killed. But what does that mean "unlawfully" killed? Unlawful under Israel's laws?? Probably not, Israel killed them. Unlawful under the Palestinian Authority's laws? Maybe, we just don't know. Unlawful under the International Criminal Court's laws? Hardly, the ICC was created yesterday!

So, what I think is that it referes to all the people the world has been outraged over Israel for killing, and those are the so called "extra judicial" targetted killings of terrorists who are planning or ready to carry out imminent attacks on Israelis.

If those are the people then, goddamn, I'm all for it.

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