jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 5:52 am

I just read an article that lit a fire up under my ass. I will include the link to the story, but first here is the crux of the article:

Apparently Israel in recent years has become a major supplier of weapons and weapons technology to China. Israel's government has previously stopped the sale of weaponry under pressure from the United States. However, in 1992, the Pentagon investigated intelligence reports that Israel covertly exported U.S. Patriot missile technology to China. Israel and China denied tit but U.S. officials are convinced the transfer took place.

What the hell is this? Our government is Israel's biggest ally, yet they turn around and supply Red China with equipment that could, and just might seriously damage us if and when China decides they are tired of waiting for Taiwan to come back home.

This doesn't sit well with me, and if you are American it shouldn't sit well with you either.

I also find it interesting that I haven't heard more about it.

J

Here is the article:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20020702-92332036.htm
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 6:02 am

Maybe you weren't around, but about a week or two ago this topic was beaten and discussed to a bloody pulp. The wounded and slain numbered into the dozens with both sides of the Atlantic and countries as far away as Australia suffering major losses.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 6:04 am

countries as far away as Australia suffering major losses

That's quite bad considering all Australia had to start off with was Paul Hogan.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 6:05 am

oh....

Sorry about that guys, got so riled up about it I had to share.

Still though, pisses me off.

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 6:48 am

Dont get so pissed off man take a chill pill, ill explain..

2 summers ago, Israel bought 2 Russian IL-76 Cargo planes (at a great deal of course), the purpose of this sale was to make AWACS aircraft for China, USA stepped in "what the hell are you doing?", so we did not sell them. Ok we all know the Patriot missile is so useless, it misses the target and than comes back down (we seen this in the gulf war). We also see this American power step in during the LAVI program in Israel, IAI came out with a aircraft 10 years ahead of its time, the US cut funds to Israel because it was a threat to the American technology of Boeing and Macdonald Douglas. Israel canclled the project, only 3 Lavis were ever built. Now its starting agian with Israels new Anti-Missle .. Missle, But I do understand that China is a "enemy" to the United States, but any sale to a enemy of our allies is unexceptable, and I agree with you about this, but AWACS aircraft are harmless ok? But About these missles I got no idea, they were probley sold before china was really a threat... I COULD JUST BE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING, I didnt read the whole thing but im just giving u some pointers on it, But dont forget, USA sold weapons to Enemy countries of Israel, so dont get all ticked off about whos screwing who here. Both countries made some bad decisions in there past and its all behind them now.

Take care..
dont get pissed at this aight?



 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 7:07 am

Sorry, Beavis. A tad more complicated than your foray into Hip 101 paints it to be...aight? . There are serious issues between the two countries that aren't "all behind us." One doesn't need to be the tastiest fry in the Happy Meal to realize the PHALCON technology and much...not all, but much of the LAVI came from reverse engineered (or outright espionaged) US technology. And considering reverse engineering happens when the original inventors dont WANT you to know how it works, that's kind of a problem.

But pop a chill pill of your own, I'm not advocating military door slamming on Israel. I would guess that the same minority of nationalists ready to take on the rock throwing kids ...and every Arab on the other side of them all the way over to the Himalayas...are the same ones aggressively shopping around US tech, then telling us in no uncertain terms to pound it. They need to be dealt with, and only cooler Israeli heads can do that.

Bush says bounce Yassir...right on! And dont let the door hit Ariel in the ass either.
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 7:30 am

(Sorry, Beavis. A tad more complicated than your foray into Hip 101 paints it to be...aight?)

ok whatever u ment by that,

Im sorry guy, but ur wrong about ur reverse engineering here.
Just for your information every american plane that is bought by Israel, is totally converted to Israeli technology. There is no use for American technology for us. And I wouldent be to surprized if the Americans try to get plans for the Anti-MIssle Arrow 2 program, since u know.. the American version seemed to have failed its test, how many times now? 4?
While the ARrow2 is already in use, I bet you anything we will be sharing the technology probley sometime in the near future.

Do you know that the only reverse engineered was the KFIR aircraft, which came from the MIRAGE 3C, a French made aircraft. This reason for this was that the french were pricks and didnt give us our aircraft due to the 67 war.
So we stole the blue prints and made our own version. The blue prints were of the French, but the technology in the cockpit was 100% Israeli, like all the aircraft today in the I.A.F.

But our 2 allies share a lot and train a lot so there should be no conflict at all between the 2 countries and there people, so please dont feed me any of this north american b.s, cause u get it here in Canada also, you talk to people who dont even know where Israel is on the map, yet they seem to just suddently know how everything works there.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 8:01 am

http://www.mideastfacts.com/phalcon_fliesagain.html

You'll notice the quote from the Israeli Defense Ministry official..."the Americans know every piece of Phalcon and can influence what goes into it...."

That'd be kinda tough to do if it were truly an indigenous technology, wouldn't it?
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 10:00 am

Don't forget Jonathan Pollard, either - the traitor that caused the US the most damage through espionage, ever. He spied for the Israelis, who promptly traded the information he provided to the Soviets in exchange for Jewish emigrants - resulting in the deaths of a number of US agents. Clinton wanted to give him a Presidential Pardon but the heads of the CIA and the FBI dug their heels in and the Jewish lobby lost ... for once!
 
PANYNJ
Posts: 204
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:09 am

Jamesag

It wasn't covered because that paper you read the article in, the Washington Times, is owned by some whacked out Korean cult. No one with half a brain takes those creeps seriously. Neither should you.

 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:40 am

I originally brought this up a few weeks ago. Selling our weapons isn't the only wrong Israel has done...how about blowing up the USS Liberty??? Or, hijacking the US government with powerful Zionist lobbies!? Why do we keep supporting Israel is the question...the answer...the lobbies in a Democratically controlled Congress have Bush by his balls...that's why!

B4e
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:56 am

Boeing4ever:
...the answer...the lobbies in a Democratically controlled Congress have Bush by his balls...that's why!

Congress is controlled by the Republicans. The Democrats have a one seat advantage in the Senate.


The US support for Israel is bi-partisan. Both parties are blindly pro-Israel.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:02 pm

Boy tnnh is gonna be  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed at this. It should be interesting to see what BS he comes up with to counter these facts.  Laugh out loud

B4e
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:30 pm

Both parties are blindly pro-Israel

They're not BLINDLY pro-Israel...they still see GREEN

My two cents, ten cents, and fifty cents,
B4e
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:34 pm

Boeing4ever:
OK I should have clarified myself. The Pro-Israel lobby has lots of green so both parties will jump on it in a second.
Bring back the Concorde
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:42 pm

Of course the Americans know what would be in the Phalcon, we want to sell it so we inform them of everything in it, like I said before, its not like it was a real threat, its only a AWACS aircraft it wasent really customized, it was just converted into a AWACS for sale.

(((Selling our weapons isn't the only wrong Israel has done...how about blowing up the USS Liberty??? Or, hijacking the US government with powerful Zionist lobbies!? Why do we keep supporting Israel is the question)))

what the hell are you talking about?


anyways..
just remeber im not trying to argue or cause a rukus with you all ..
ok..
I see a lot of post about Israel and palastine lately I like to join them, but they always end up with such b.s. that nobody really knows what they are talking about in the end.. lets not let it happen to this one.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:49 pm

(((Selling our weapons isn't the only wrong Israel has done...how about blowing up the USS Liberty??? Or, hijacking the US government with powerful Zionist lobbies!? Why do we keep supporting Israel is the question)))

what the hell are you talking about?

So you've never heard of the USS Liberty eh? It would be a US intelligence ship that sustained repeated attack by Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats during one of Israel's many wars with its Arab neighbors. Ring a bell? A Liberty Bell perhaps?

B4e
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:56 pm

no dosent ring a bell and I would usally know about something like this, my history is one of my strong subjects, let me speak to some of the other Israelis, casue I never heard of Israelis attacking americans, never ever..
I know we stole some Dc-3`s from the US after WW2, and if we did bomb this it probley was before the 50`s

ill check on it ..
 
FlyVirgin744
Posts: 1282
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 8:35 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Thu Jul 04, 2002 1:01 pm

Not this Lobby crap again. Most congressman are pro-Israel, some are not. The ones for Israel will recieve money from the Z lobby, the others who do not will recieve money from the Arab lobby. I work with politicians on a daily basis. Your assumption that they support Israel only for the Jewish money is wrong.
Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

History

Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:37 am

Well Mish1234, it appears that History is not one of your strongest subjects.

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 4:34 am

Well apprenatly so
but I never heard of this before..
so I got no idea if its really true
and im not going to belive this, show me some proof.
 
qatarairways
Posts: 864
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 4:41 am

"and im not going to belive this, show me some proof."

http://www.ussliberty.org If you want more proof head on over to http://www.av.com or http://www.google.com and type in USS Liberty.
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 6:03 am

Well Thank you, you showed me proof, thats all I asked for.
Now I know of this.

This is intresteing, but as I was reading in all of the sites. The attack was "an accident", If they were in International waters, what were they doing beside Gaza? That is arab waters my friend. We were in a war, accidents happen, just like the latest attack by the states in afghanastian when they bombed that village. Or even the bombing of the Canadian Troops. They are accidents.
not to mention the states and israel werent in really close relationship, it was only after the 67 war when things took off.
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 6:04 am

Mish1234,

You have access to the largest resource in the world. The Internet. USE IT. These people have indicated to you a very important piece of history and you then ask them to show you proof? Go look yourself,continuing to talk from a position of ignorance does not help your credibility.





VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 6:05 am

Then of course there are other Israeli 'accidents' such as the shooting down of a Boeing 727 in clear daylight by the IAF.
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 7:00 am

The USS liberty was spying on Israel probably for the Arabs. so if you were Israel and you detected spying of your country what would you do.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 7:05 am

The USS liberty was spying on Israel probably for the Arabs. so if you were Israel and you detected spying of your country what would you do.

So the Americans were spying on Israel for the Arabs?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 1:14 pm

The USS liberty was spying on Israel probably for the Arabs. so if you were Israel and you detected spying of your country what would you do.

What arab country did the US have good enough relations with to spy on Israel for them!? The ship was monitoring the entire war...both the Israeli and Arab movements. If we spied for the Arabs...then why do we give the Israelis weapons. This was an unprovoked attack. As for the US bombing Canadian soldiers...it was an accident at high altitute...the USS Liberty was REPEATADLY assaulted by Israeli fighter jets and torpedo boats.

B4e
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 1:53 pm

Im sorry but that Cdn Troops accident was not a high altitude bombing, the pilot came in and looked at the actual firing and people below. He saw them, so he bombed them.

As for the Boeing 727 ?
That sounds like some arab b.s to me.. never heard of it, it never happend, I checked the net, nothing...

As for the american ship, what do u expect, it was in the middle of a war, it was in the arab area, sure looked like the arab boats as well, do u expect us to look at the American flag from the sky? If there was a Arab or Israel or any other boat in the area back in the day, and it was an american war going on, they would bomb it without even caring.

 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:40 pm

We did not sell them weapons in the 6 day war. they had all French weapons.
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:42 pm

And this does not look like a ship that was repeatedly attacked.
http://ussliberty.org/g/lg/lg0031.jpg
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:53 pm

Yes im very aware that we only had french stuff.
like as I said-->

(((Do you know that the only reverse engineered was the KFIR aircraft, which came from the MIRAGE 3C, a French made aircraft. This reason for this was that the french were pricks and didnt give us our aircraft due to the 67 war.)))

thats when we started to buy American aircraft and weapons.

About the ship, yes it was attacked... and probley repeatedly also, I never said it didnt get shot repeatedly, It was a mistaken enemy target. There yah go, im sure there were many more reasons for this ship being attacked, us the public probley dont know about it, and the united states probley never gave the true details about why the ship was really there for. The ship must of been doing a very big no - no and its mission probley kept a secret.


 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
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RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 9:52 pm

Mish1234, how can you doubt the truth of the 727 shootdown? Never heard of it? What's wrong with you?! An Air France (operating for Libyan AL) 727 was shot down over the Sinai, it was en route from Tripoli (the one in Libya, not Lebanon) to Cairo and flew past Cairo due to a navigation error. They had already turned around and were flying west away from Israel when they were shot down by the IAF. Aircraft tried to make an emergency landing but they crashed in the desert. Don't know what year but look it up and don't dismiss fact as fiction just because it doesn't fit with your racist pro-Israeli beliefs ("it sounds like Arab BS to me...never heard of it, never happened").
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 9:59 pm

Mish1234, sorry to rain on your parade, but IAI did not reverse engineer the Mirage - they stole the blueprints and engineering documents from a Swiss company.

Then of course there was the attack on Beirut Airport ... no military targets there, only civilian aircraft belonging or leased to MEA were destroyed (including a VC10 on lease from Ghana Airways). I am sure Cedarjet will know a lot more about that than me!
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Fri Jul 05, 2002 10:45 pm

Can I have proof? Agian im sorry I need proof.

Cedarjet: I dont hate all Arabs, and yes I am Pro-Israeli 100%, ive lived with Arabs before, I know what they are about, not from what ive heard or what I belive, its just from what I have seen and from what ive heard, Ive seen also.

Sas23: If it was stolen from the swiss, I really dont care, the point is, that it was stolen, I said blueprints also my friend... I would think most likely stolen from France, because u know, it is a french aircraft that has nothing at all to do with the swiss. As for the attack on Beirut I really dont know much about it, It took place during what time exactly? I forgot the reason, and im to lazy to look it up, but I know forsure there was a good reason. Was this all during 1981-82 period?



 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 12:17 am

Mish 1234, no you didn't "say blueprints also, my friend" you said: (((Do you know that the only reverse engineered was the KFIR aircraft, which came from the MIRAGE 3C, a French made aircraft. This reason for this was that the french were pricks and didnt give us our aircraft due to the 67 war.)))

You can take it from me that the blueprints came from Switzerland (actually from a subcontractor).

The attack on Beiruit was on the 28th December 1968, and was led by Rafael Eitan.

You really ought to take a lot more interest in the affairs of your region rather than simply the propaganda put out by the Israeli government!  Big grin
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 6:10 am

(((So we stole the blue prints and made our own version. The blue prints were of the French, but the technology in the cockpit was 100% Israeli, like all the aircraft today in the I.A.F.)))


OH whats this ? I didnt say blue prints?
take a closer look my friend..

 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 6:20 am

Mish1234 - my apologies, I see now that you did say that in your first post. I completely overlooked that ... but of course it means that you were aware that the Mirage was not reverse engineered as originally claimed. Nor is the mid-1960s version of the Mirage anything other than the remote ancestor of the Kfir ... that was designed as a comprehensive upgrade in partnership with Denel of South Africa during the 1980s.
 
lubcha132
Posts: 2642
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 10:37 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 6:58 am

Because the Israelis have never started anything. Every act, all the wars were unprovoked. '67, 6-day, Yom Kippur, the recent stuff, all of that was started by the neighbors.

Keep in mind, when the papers recalled the story about Jenin that was proven untrue, the retraction was not someplace that people would find.
 
777236ER
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 7:03 am

Starting anything or not, the fact remains that Israel isn't as perfect as some people would like to make out. YES it is better than certain others in the region but it's not a saint and considering they ATTACKED a US vessel as recently as 1967 I'd be pretty pissed off if MY dollars was going to help them.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 7:19 am

Lubcha, sorry but the Six Day War was started by the Israelis as a pre-emptive strike against the Egyptians and Syrians.

777236ER ... and don't forget they knew about the Beirut Marine Barrack attack and had knowledge of 9/11 ... yet didn't tell their "friends"!
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 11:22 am

In the six day war the Arabs blockaded Israel. A blockade is a act of war!. You have no evidence for your accusations from neutral sources that are not based in Europe. And no nation on earth is perfect or even close to it THAT INCLUDES THE UK
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 12:01 pm

Sas23 is right, The 67 war was started by Israel only because it was a nessacary move, It was either us or them, so instead of us getting a suprize attack on us, we did it to them, we attacked at the perfect time when the gaurds and pilots were either , just waking up or switching gaurd shifts, it was becuase of this attack that the war wasent as long as it could of lasted. And Sas dont forget that in this attack we took out 4 airforces in 1 day.
 Smile
And Sas, The Mirage was not reverse engineered thats correct, the Kfir on the other hand was. From the blue prints of the mirage Israel came out with there own version called the Kfir.

As I state agian, The US and Israel werent really the best friends back in 67, and agian, it was an accidental attack, the ship was in the wrong place at the wrong time. There isnt anything you can do about it now, it happend thats it, whatever else we say wont change the facts.

 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:08 pm

I just spent the last ten minutes writing a response to the level of ignorance I have seen in this thread, but figured it wouldn't do any good so I just deleted it.

Here is a lesson for the kids: Read more, a lot more.

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:19 pm

nd no nation on earth is perfect or even close to it THAT INCLUDES THE UK

Did I say that? Nope.

I don't really care if America gives Israel billions or not. But I wonder how Americans would feel if billions were given to Cuba or Afghanistan or Iraq...
Your bone's got a little machine
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:40 pm

It is thought the Liberty was attacked as they had picked up signals describing shootings of Egyptian prisoners in the Sinai.
The Kfir had a US J79 engine, it was an indifferent air to air performer, so was relegated to attack missions, especially once F-15 and F-16's arrived.
The US made the political decision in the mid 60's to supply advanced weapon systems to Israel.
US subcontracting played a big part in the Lavi fighter, Grumman was the biggest US company involved. US pressure or not, Israel could not afford to develop an indigenous fighter with little export potential, (which would have been political problems, unrelated to the actual performance of the Lavi).
And it was hard to justify with all those F-16's entering service with the IAF at the time.
Why so surprised about selling stuff to China?
Israel had no problem selling, and developing, arms with Apatheid South Africa, including nuclear programmes.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:49 pm

Cut em loose and let them fend for themselves.

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sun Jul 07, 2002 7:27 am

And no nation on earth is perfect or even close to it THAT INCLUDES THE UK

This type of argument is irrelevant and has no place in realistic discussion. There is no country that is without some negative history, does that mean that we should simply allow others to behave as they wish because of that? Or do we learn from the stupidity of the past and try and ensure that it doesn't happen HERE AND NOW?

As I state agian, The US and Israel werent really the best friends back in 67, and agian, it was an accidental attack, the ship was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Have you posted enough excuses there? Israel wasn't friends with the US would suggest a deliberate action. The ship was in the wrong place at the wrong time infers that the attack occurred because the ship "was in the way" which clearly it wasn't, also indicates a non accidental attack.

Seems to me that the American ship was highly identifyable as there just aren't that many navies out there in the world with a fleet the sheer size of the US's .. Israel knew what they were attacking, as they know with most things. The "accidental" excuse gets quite tiresome after a while.

You used the terms "we" and "us". Are you Israeli? If so, why were you ignorant of the fact that Israel had launched this attack? Isn't it acknowledged in Israel?

There isnt anything you can do about it now, it happend thats it, whatever else we say wont change the facts.

That's right. Nothing can be said/done to change the fact that America needs to be ever vigilant when dealing with Israel.

Cut em loose and let them fend for themselves.

I agree .. but then how long would it be before they dragged out the nukes!?



VH-ADG

 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sun Jul 07, 2002 8:09 am

yeah im Israeli
And yes the ship was in the wrong place at the wrong time,
But hey, Russia And US were almost at war and now look at them, getting closer everyday, so just because of one accidental attack on a american ship means that the US shouldent really be as good allies to Israel as they are?
what kinda talk is that?
What about the nukes? u think Israel is that crazy, what are u a moron?
 
Guest

RE: Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....

Sun Jul 07, 2002 2:43 pm

And yes the ship was in the wrong place at the wrong time,

I think that not only do the Americans disagree with you, i'm sure they felt (rightly so) that they had every right to be there. I suspect (and the Americans in here can confirm/deny) that they were watching out for the Israelis when the Isrealis noticed they had seem something they shouldn't and launched an "accidental" attack on them

Evidence points that way.

But hey, Russia And US were almost at war and now look at them, getting closer everyday,

You're not even close to being in the same league as either country.

so just because of one accidental attack on a american ship means that the US shouldent really be as good allies to Israel as they are?

I don't believe it was accidental and you're hardly in a position to argue that it was. 2 weeks ago you didn't even know it had occured and you couldn't be bothered looking up the details yourself.

what kinda talk is that?

It's talk from a country that is a far closer Ally to America than Israel will ever be. We don't attack their ships, not even "accidentally" because it's quite easy to recognise US military, they have a tendancy to stand out from other countries (ie, size, shape etc). A simple military tactician can generally tell. Particularly in light of the fact that the ship was NOT acting in any agressive way. Sure in the heat of battle things can get confusing, but you can hardly claim that is the case in this incident, because that would be suggesting that the Americans were firing upon Isreal which they most definitely WEREN'T.

What about the nukes? u think Israel is that crazy,

I believe that if they weren't so frightened of the withdrawl of the mighty American dollar and the affect that would have on them they would have released nukes already.

what are u a moron?

Nope, how about you?




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