Guest

Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 4:57 pm

Israel confirmed its place as apartheid South Africa's successor in institutionalised racism when its cabinet endorsed a bill outlawing the purchase of land in 'Jewish areas' by Arabs. This bill is a replica of the Group Areas Act, which was a cornerstone of apartheid.

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/international.cfm?id=739982002

 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:00 pm

Ok, if I understand this correctly.. there saying Arab famliy wants to live in Jewish community, but is not allowed because of this bill..

ok first thing I have to say.. GOOD... they can stay just where they are, If we (Israelis) arent allowed to visit or live in there regions.. than what gives them the right to live in ours!?! Also forgot to mention that all Arabs that live in Israel right now support suicide bombings. They keep the terriost in there houses, feed them, treat them like family, than they are off to there mission.
Yeah.. let me remind u.. these are Arabs living in Israel.


 
Guest

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:37 pm

Is this article based upon fact? If so, why aren't the Israelis in the UN explaining their racist behaviour?

I thought we were well past the racial segregation issues in the "democratic" world. Or is democracy in Israel only for the jews?



VH-ADG
 
KROC
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:39 pm

Sorry guys, but this thread should be locked. There is already a Israeli/Palestinian thread active. Hey, not my choice, but it is what we all "agreed" upon.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:08 pm

Have I heard it right? "All Arabs support suicide bombings"? That's the same as somebody would say ALL Israelis kill innocent Plaestinians...

You better start thinking before writing.

By the way, I don't regard Israel as democratic country any longer...new apartheid laws in a so-called democratic and civilized country, unbelievable. I thought racism had been overcome in the so-called Western world during last century. But obviously I'm wrong, welcome to Israel in the 21st century...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
racko
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:19 pm

Please imagine Germany would today introduce a law: "Jews are not allowed to buy land in Christian areas".

"they can stay just where they are, If we (Israelis) arent allowed to visit or live in there regions"

We all know many things go wrong in these countries. No reasons for the "island of democracy" to go as low as other countries.

To be honest, this law really sounds extremely like Apartheid.
 
voodoo
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:35 pm

The retort will be that Jews can't/couldn't buy land in Tunisia or somesuch.

So I guess 2 wrongs make a right once again.
Or: Israel is just another Middle East shite-hole sinking deeper into the pit with US welfare money instead of oil to lubricate its descent.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
Krushny
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:38 pm

Let me add that there are Israeli voices claiming against this law. The Editorial today of the Haaretz newspaper is titled "A racist bill" .
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=184617&contrassID=2&subContrassID=3&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=184617

Sometimes it looks like Israel is a place where the lunatics have taken over the asylum. And the funny thing is that the people who cheer here this kind of decisions are never Israelis themselves...

 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:50 pm

I cant support racism, this links into news that a bill is being introduced by a crack-pot right wing rabbi that sees only jews being able to purchase government land. If an israeli arab wants to buy land then i think they have a right to do so.

udo-what i think the translation was meant to mean was that a MAJORITY of palestinains and arabs support suicide bombers,thats not to say all palestinains are terrorists and i hope no-body makes that statement.
You are right it would be the same as saying all israelis kill innocent palestinains.

it would also be the same as saying all israelis are legitmate targets, unfortunately, a few on airliners have this view.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
flyboy36y
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:17 pm

Sorry guys, but this thread should be locked. There is already a Israeli/Palestinian thread active. Hey, not my choice, but it is what we all "agreed" upon.

Please. Give me a break KKROC. You know damned well that the rule really is only one pro Israel I v. P thread at a time. THI can start as many threads as they like.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:20 pm

While I agree that this is an over-reaction on the part of Israel's government, and can only lead to further tension, in another sense I really don't blame them. When suicide bombers are coming from the general population of Palestinians, why would anyone want them in your community? It's inviting trouble.

And Udo, why aren't they a democracy? They took a vote on it-there is even public dissension on the issue. If Israel wasn't a democacy, I doubt highly you'd here about any of the dissension that is emminating from there.

Sadly, all this action and reaction is the result of the continued violence in the region. It is, again, a never-ending cycle. And if the Palestinians, just for once, would give peace a chance instead of resorting to terror, you might find that such proposed laws would be unnecessary.

And once again, I can't help but comment on the one-track mind of the author. I won't even dignify him by name. It's all he thinks about. I feel sorry for him in some ways, that he's so obsessed with this issue and his own hatreds.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:35 pm

remember apha one..according to some-one its you and me who resort to the 'name' calling.. Laugh out loud Laugh out loud Laugh out loud

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
avi
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:58 pm

You confuse things here. This (very bad) bill has nothing to do with the Palestinians, it against Israeli Arabs.

This is not a low and it will never be one. It passed in the government because the left side of it already left (this is why it came up anyway). To be a low it must pass the Knesset (Israeli parliament) and I don't believe it will.
Even if it does, I can promise you that there will be an appeal to the high court and they WILL cancel it (and it won't be the first time they cancel an illegal low).


Long live the B747
 
Hepkat
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 10:25 pm

First of all, this law has NOTHING to do with Palestinians. This law prevents Israeli citizens of Arab descent from owning lands in their own country. This is meets every definition of discrimination and is quickly approaching that of apartheid.

This was discussed last night on CNN, and in the report we also found out that Israeli Arabs are denied jobs, denied housing, their communities are denied welfare services (they have the worst roads, their schools are under funded and overcrowded in comparison to Jewish schools), have to face strict security checks (even though they are Israeli citizens) all because of their ethnicity.

Such a system would NEVER, EVER be allowed in the U.S. (my God, the uproar!), and like someone else said, if Austria were to pass a law saying Austrian Jews are not allowed to purchase lands, or if Austria were to legally discriminate against Austrian Jews, we'd NEVER hear the end of it - they'd be suspended from the EU, they'd lose their membership on international bodies, they'd face sanctions from the EU, UN and US, and would be ostracized by every country great and small. Why is Israel allowed to do this, and where is the international uproar? And why do they still claim to be an outpost of western democratic values and principles?

I'm afraid this latest move by Israel shows their government for they are. They don't care about peace, they don't care about following the rule of law, they care about one thing and one thing only - JEWISHNESS. The whole state is founded to perpetuate Jewishness, to accept only Jews, to only look after Jews. This is as RACIST an idea as I've ever heard. Jews from all over the world have the automatic right to immigrate to Israel and enjoy every freedom known to man, but the non-Jew has to jump through hurdles and barriers, and even if he gets there, does not have the same rights as the Jew BY LAW.

Let me just stop before my emotions betray me.
 
Guest

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 10:25 pm

Alpha 1, I have many other things to occupy my time - and I can assure you that my interest in the ME comes solely from my friendship with many Israelis, Palestinians and others in the ME. Tell me, exactly how many Israeli/Arab friends do you have, personally?

Hatred is too strong a term for something that I do not have a personal emotional investment in. Yes, I have a strong dislike of the current neo-Fascist Sharon regime. I have a strong dislike of bullies and thugs.

Do you have a problem with that?
 
wn700driver
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Tue Jul 09, 2002 10:46 pm

Sometimes it looks like Israel is a place where the lunatics have taken over the asylum. And the funny thing is that the people who cheer here this kind of decisions are never Israelis themselves...

understandable, but the people who MAKE & vote for these laws neccessarily are...
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
go canada!
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:25 am

"Alpha 1, I have many other things to occupy my time - and I can assure you that my interest in the ME comes solely from my friendship with many Israelis, Palestinians and others in the ME."

rubbish

How many israelis do you know sas23, who would agree with your view that israeli civilains are legitmate targets for terrorists?

I post regarding the middle east because im at a centre promoting jewish-non jewish relations.

the only interest you have is stirring up trouble.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:43 am

I have several (6, out of around 30) Israeli friends that would regard what the Palestinians are doing as understandable. They don't like it, but they understand why it's happening. Of course, they are on the left politically. Of the others, a significant percentage are somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, with a couple believing that Sharon is a wimp and puppet of Bush; and that Bibi wasted his chances. Like our old friend TNNH, they feel that there should be a 'final solution' for the Palestinian problem.

The emotional climate in Israel at the moment is very reminiscent of South Africa in the mid/late 1980s. There's a siege - or as we used to say in South Africa, a laager - mentality where they are arrayed against the rest of the world. This has the effect of radically polarising opinion locally, and that's very dangerous indeed. In South Africa, it brought the country to the brink of nuclear war (as part of the 'Total Onslaught') before cooler minds prevailed.

If the same happens with Israel, it will affect every single one of us, like it or not.
 
Greg
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:28 am

I'll have to agree with GoCanada!
SAS23 does his best to create an inflammatory environment--just barely on the side of not being flamebait, per se.

Why are the moderators not seeing this?
Furthermore, why are we allowing more than a single Israeli/Palestinian post.
 
avi
Posts: 891
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:50 am

Hepkat,

…Why is Israel allowed to do this, and where is the international uproar?

As I said, it is not a law and it won't be one.

The whole state is founded to perpetuate Jewishness, to accept only Jews, to only look after Jews. This is as RACIST an idea as I've ever heard

You right and wrong at the same time.
Israel was founded as the only state in the world that Jews could live there without being persecuted.
Only 3 years after the holocaust, when part of the Christian world tried to erase the Jews from the world and the other part didn't do anything to stop it (The British and the American knew what was going on way before the end of the war but did nothing to stop it and let's not mention the church role).

Israel became the only home for the Jews around the world so every Jew in the world can come to the only place in the world where he is wanted and welcome.

This is not 'RACIST' as you said, it is SURVIVAL.
When the Jews won't be majority in Israel, Israel will stop to exist (I guess you don't have any problem with that) and there will be a second holocaust (and don't bother to tell me that I'm wrong. I know my people history and I know my neighbors).
Long live the B747
 
wn700driver
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:03 am

(The British and the American knew what was going on way before the end of the war but did nothing to stop it and let's not mention the church role).

This has me laughing audibly. I'm not saying you are wrong, indeed you are quite right, but what's funny is that we also know what you are doing to the palastinians and not doing a thing about it. Seems funny to complain about something that is working in your favour...
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
avi
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:35 am

Seems funny to complain about something that is working in your favour...

Don't you have a shame? How can you compare? And what are doing to them exactly and WHY?

Just to remind you, there was a peace process here, Israel was in a withdrawal process from the GS and WB and the PA blew it up. THEY started the Intifada and the terror attacks against Israel and stop it all. Israel had nothing to do with it.
I don't remember German buses exploded just like that or any other violence act.

One reason why the US, EU and even Arab leaders aren't doing anything here (anymore) is because they gave up from one leader here (and if you fallow the news, you know which one).

Long live the B747
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:04 am

Wn700driver: I hope that your aware that for almost a year, Israel delivered food and supplies to the palastian people. Thanks to the IDF, and Israeli tax dollars.. they had food.. than they got cocky, so we stopped.. thats why they just suddently "ran out of food" in the last few months.

 
Alpha 1
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:26 am

SAS23, I have no problem at all with your basic stance on Israel. There is nothing that says you must like them. But contrary to what you say, you do more than dislike them; you hate them with a passion that's very frightening. You publically legitimize the use of terror against their citizens; you have called their citizens fair game; you call them fascists and nazi's, which you use simply to inflame; you have called for international force against them.

Plus, you use this hatred to slander members on this forum; calling them Neo-Nazi's and fascists for supporting their right to exist and to defend themselves; you call for the banishment of a member simply because that member calls you on every outlandish thing you say on here; and it's the ONLY subject you ever discuss on here.

So you can keep your far-out beliefs. I have no beef with that, but when you take it to extremes, I'm truly amazed that you think me and others on here with a shred of decency about them won't respond.
 
User avatar
yyz717
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:32 am

and yet.......Israel remains the ONLY democracy in the Mideast, with the best human rights records of any Mideast country. In this light, this law doesn't seem so bad.

SAS23.....what's your opinion on Saudi treatment of women?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:48 am

from tnnh:
----------------------
Like our old friend TNNH, they feel that there should be a 'final solution' for the Palestinian problem.

First of all, I was never your friend. Secondly, your suggestion that I or anyone on this board desires a nazi style genocide or complete annihilation of the Palestinian people is ridiculous, insulting, inflamatory, and libelous.

I suggest you calm yourself before spouting off such statements.

tnnh
-------------------------

TWAmerican
 
david b.
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:51 am

Please don't relay message from that guy.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Guest

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:52 am

too late!  Laugh out loud

TWAmerican
 
blink182
Posts: 5278
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:58 am

My apologies if I have repeated what many have said above as I only read about the first two or so. But here's my take.

Normally I am against apartheid, but because of the fact that Arabs keep bombing Israeli civilian hotspots, I think it is somewhat necessary. Let's face it, Young Israelis's hotspots such as Movie Theatres, restaurants, and clubs are being hit, causing a lot of damage financially, and the fact that innocent people are being killed. I was hoping that apartheid would never happen, but I think Israel is doing the correct thing.

I have been pro- Israel at times,and pro-Palestine at other times. Realizing though, that both sides have their goods and bads makes me not even care anymore. I don't mean to sound cheesy and desparate, but I just want the killing to stop- that's what I care about right now is that the killings stop.

blink

Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Super Em
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:39 pm

Very interesting and important yet you will never hear of this story on the mainstream news. That's why I don't bother watching. Remember the saying "the revolution will not be televised". Now I know what it means.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:44 pm

The same thing happened to Jews in Germany (later all of occupied Europe) before and during WW2. They complain, and have Germany pay millions for this in compensation, but then go around and do the same to the Israeli Arabs. Hypocrites, born hypocrites.

My two cents, ten cents, and fifty cents,
B4e
 
Guest

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:36 pm

Don't forget that the Nazis started their genocide of the Jews through similar stripping of rights ... this is yet another policy that the Israelis have copied from them. It's ironic that the people enforcing those policies have ancestors that were affected - and often murdered - through the same policies under the Nazis. All terribly tragic - of all the peoples in the world, surely the Jews would have known best the consequences of their actions?
 
mish1234
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 7:05 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:51 pm

This is a waste of time, why are u even comparing ww2 stuff to the current situation.. its an Intifada...They (Palastians) wanted this right? THats why they did it...

Don't forget that the Nazis started their genocide of the Jews through similar stripping of rights

yeah well Jews in Germany didnt go blowing up and killing people..and that is such a bad comeback also dude.. its sad to see how low u pro-arabs go sometimes..

They complain, and have Germany pay millions for this in compensation

Haha of course, heck they only murdered 11 million people.. 6 million jews out of that 11 million. Everyone is getting money from the germans.

but then go around and do the same to the Israeli Arabs. Hypocrites, born hypocrites.

what do we do to Israeli-Arabs? They live in our country, where they can freely talk about whatever they want. Not to mention some of them even support suicide bombers.

My two cents, ten cents, and fifty cents

Thats now in my pocket!
 Smile


 
Guest

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:07 pm

Very worryingly, the Israelis are now targetting moderate Palestinians. It's increasingly clear that the Sharon regime has no interest in peace whatsoever - and things are only going to get worse. A lot worse.  Sad

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/international.cfm?id=743582002
 
racko
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:20 pm

"and yet.......Israel remains the ONLY democracy in the Mideast, with the best human rights records of any Mideast country. In this light, this law doesn't seem so bad."

I have a serious question: Are all citizens of Palestine (Gaza, Westbank etc.) allowed to elect in Israel ? If not, then you can't really call it a democracy, because they have power over people who are not allowed to elect (That's one of the major rights in a democracy).

And let me quote another law of the German constitution which for sure is in Israel's too:


Artikel 3,(3) GG
"Niemand darf wegen seines Geschlechtes, seiner Abstammung, seiner Rasse, seiner Sprache, seiner Heimat und Herkunft, seines Glaubens, seiner religiösen oder politischen Anschauungen benachteiligt oder bevorzugt werden. Niemand darf wegen seiner Behinderung benachteiligt werden."


No one may be prejudiced or favored because of his sex, his parentage, his race, his language, his home and origin, his faith or his religious or political opinions.

The new israelian law seems to do exactly what is forbidden by this law ...
 
Krushny
Posts: 756
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:24 pm

 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:27 pm

I have a serious question: Are all citizens of Palestine (Gaza, Westbank etc.) allowed to elect in Israel ? If not, then you can't really call it a democracy, because they have power over people who are not allowed to elect (That's one of the major rights in a democracy).

Unless they're citizens of Israel-and most of them are NOT, then why the hell should they be allowed to vote in Israel. Most of them fall under the PA, not Israel political jurisdiciton. In fact, they're holding "elections", early next year to "elect" a President. So that's a moot and contradictory statement Krushny. That has no bearing on Israel as a democracy. That would be like saying "why don't citizens of Canada allowed to elect in the U.S."
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:46 pm

a general point,Palestinains have a right to vote in their elections, they dont have the right to vote in israeli elections, if they want to be independent they can be. You dont get israelis voting in the palestinain elections1

SAS23, there you go again, do you seriously expect me, aplha one and anyone with an onuce of intelligence to be wipped up in your 'all israelis are nazis, they want to gas every palestinain' chants?

There are some stupid jews who want israel to be extended past the river jordan but no israeli or jew in their right mind wants palestinains to be rounded up and shoot into mass graves or to be stripped naked, straved to death and then gassed.

i think you underestimate the power of the shoah(the holocaust is a term for all who died) on israeli and jewish life.

regarding want is happening to the offices in jerusalem, moderate or not, the policy is clear, israel doesnt want the pa in jeursaelem while they dont stop suicide bombers.

ps-sas23,no-one has a problem if you make reasoned arguements like amongst others, hepkat, but you are just as bad as tnnh or toda for starting threads that seek to attack the opposing side, at least toda only started a topic to report a suicide bombing.You attacked me on a thread a few days ago saying that me and others attack you and others with foul language and abusive posts yet you and among others, adg, are happy to band around the words 'racist' 'facist' and 'nazi' like no-bodies business. There is a difference from defending palestinains innocent civilains and condemming any israeli targeting of civilains or any massarce that actually took place and condemming human rights abuses by israel and legitimising suicide bombers, calling people facists and trying to infer that israel wishes for a second holocaust and has no right to exist.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:50 pm

Unless they're citizens of Israel-and most of them are NOT, then why the hell should they be allowed to vote in Israel. Most of them fall under the PA, not Israel political jurisdiciton. In fact, they're holding "elections", early next year to "elect" a President. So that's a moot and contradictory statement Krushny. That has no bearing on Israel as a democracy. That would be like saying "why don't citizens of Canada allowed to elect in the U.S."

Actually, It would be more like saying why Can't the Citizens of Canada vote in the UK. The UK has a historic tie to CAnada but the British Queen is still respected officially in Canada. Palsetine would have it's oun country too if the PA acted properly and could run the Gov't in a way not threatning to Israel.
 
Guest

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:09 pm

Alpha 1, actually what the Israelis have done with the Palestinians is the same as the South Africans did under the Group Areas Act with the blacks. They simply said "this area is for whites only; this area is for Indians and this for coloureds (people of mixed race). We don't have to worry about the blacks, because there are no blacks in South Africa ... they all come from the TVBC (Transkei, Venda, Bophutatswana and Ciskei) homelands". The blacks were allowed to vote ... for governments in their homeland, not in South Africa proper. This is identical to what has happened with the Palestinians.

Go Canada! as an apparent historian, I'm shocked that you don't recognise the parallels between the Sharon regime and that of Hitler in 1933. Are you going to attempt to deny that the Sharon government is an extreme right wing one; and if Netanyahu gets in, that will be even more so?

I certainly don't think that the majority of Israelis want to round up and gas all the Palestinians ... yet. However, there are some - including the Chief of the Army and other hawks who think that this would be an excellent idea if they could get away with it. Equally, I very much doubt that the majority of Germans thought that rounding up and gassing the Jews would be a great idea, either ... so that is a specuous argument.

Israel does not have sole rights over Jerusalem, much as it might think it does. Heck, even Starwood and American Airlines address their junk mail to people in Jerusalem as "Palestine/Occupied Territories"!
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:10 pm

"Unless they're citizens of Israel-and most of them are NOT, then why the hell should they be allowed to vote in Israel. Most of them fall under the PA, not Israel political jurisdiciton."

Because Israel rules over them ? Israel keeps destroying the PA, so they don't want them to be a government. But someone has to be the government of these people, and Israel doesn't let the PA be the government, so at least they have to give these people the right to elect the government who rules over them -> Israel.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:24 pm

Because Israel rules over them ?

Sorry, Racko, but that's a non-starter. Israel doesn't rule over them-they have occupied their terroritory because of a little thing called suicide bombings, but I know that's not important, is it? How much you want to bet that even the occupied areas of the PA get to vote in this upcoming PA "election"? All of it, probably? Good guess.

Israel keeps destroying the PA, so they don't want them to be a government.

Wrong again-the PA has helped destroy itself by refusing to stand up to terrorism when it had the chance. And if you were next door to an area where there were literally daily attacks on your people, would YOU want that area to have a governing body? I sure wouldn't.

..so at least they have to give these people the right to elect the government who rules over them -> Israel.

In American baseball, Racko, you'd be out on three strikes. Wrong again-they are NOT citizens of Israel-they have no voting rights. None. And they shouldn't. Who are they going to vote for in any event? LOL. Until the PA demonstrates they truly want peace, then those areas will remain occupied, and rightfully so, imho. These people can vote in PA elections, so let them do so, but don't expect Israel to let non-Israeli citizens to vote. That's laughable.



 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:42 pm

If Israel has occupied their territory, then it rules over them. Either let them live their life or give them citizienship of Israel including full rights and let them elect.

"Wrong again-the PA has helped destroy itself by refusing to stand up to terrorism when it had the chance. And if you were next door to an area where there were literally daily attacks on your people, would YOU want that area to have a governing body? I sure wouldn't."

Well, Israel can go back on their own territories, build up the fence on THEIR ground and there are no terrorists anymore. Occupying the territories and taking away their human rights is not really a great solution. Or don't you think Palestines are humans ?

"Until the PA demonstrates they truly want peace, then those areas will remain occupied, and rightfully so, imho."

Would you like to live for years or months in an occupied territory without many of the human rights ?
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:12 am

If Israel has occupied their territory, then it rules over them. Either let them live their life or give them citizienship of Israel including full rights and let them elect.

Bull cookies!! If the Palestinians would just stop terrorizing Israelis then maybe they'd find their lands not occupied, perhaps? Racko-read your history-people who are "occupied" don't get voting rights, as you suggest. The Germans didn't do it when it conquered most of Europe in WW II. The Japanese didn't do it when they conquered parts of SE Asia in WW II. Occupying forces aren't there to extend rights to those occupied. They're thre either 1. As conquerers, or 2. In this case, to try to prevent attacks on their citizens. That doesn't mean you make them Israeli citizens!!

 
racko
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RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:52 am

Alpha,

"The Germans didn't do it when it conquered most of Europe in WW II"

Yes, but was it right what Germany did ? No, it wasn't. Was it right what Japan did during WW2 ? NO. Just because someone else did something wrong, you don't have to make the same crime again. And again, there are terrorists among the Palestinians, but no way all of them are terrorists. Just because some are criminals, you can't punish a whole country in such a way.
 
Guest

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:23 am

Bull cookies!!

He makes a valid point and that's your response?

If the Palestinians would just stop terrorizing Israelis then maybe they'd find their lands not occupied, perhaps?

Alternatively they may find they had no lands to occupy themselves because the "settlers" have grabbed all the land and passed laws that say no arab can live in their settlement.

Racko-read your history-people who are "occupied" don't get voting rights, as you suggest.

Occupied? That sounds like opressed.

The Germans didn't do it when it conquered most of Europe in WW II. The Japanese didn't do it when they conquered parts of SE Asia in WW II.

Because their occupations only lasted for a short time until the war ended. In this instance the occupation has been going on for decades.

Occupying forces aren't there to extend rights to those occupied.

Are you conceeding that Israel is an occupying force?

They're thre either 1. As conquerers, or 2. In this case, to try to prevent attacks on their citizens. That doesn't mean you make them Israeli citizens!!

Then what is your opinion of the Israeli settlers who are building in what we would consider Palestine?



VH-ADG
 
us330
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:48 am

Voodoo's statement "So I guess 2 wrongs make a right once again.
Or: Israel is just another Middle East shite-hole sinking deeper into the pit with US welfare money instead of oil to lubricate its descent." is the best and most intelligent piece of writing that has appeared on these forums regarding this flamebait/insult/cry of racism prone issue.
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:53 am

Divert the money to Israel Amtrak and education. It makes much more sense.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
avi
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:45 am

Racko:
Because Israel rules over them ? Israel keeps destroying the PA, so they don't want them to be a government. But someone has to be the government of these people, and Israel doesn't let the PA be the government, so at least they have to give these people the right to elect the government who rules over them -> Israel.

Can you describe the Palestinian lives in 1999 for example and what was Israel doing at that time please?


Long live the B747
 
Krushny
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 4:22 am

Israel Introduces More Apartheid Laws

Thu Jul 11, 2002 8:37 pm

Fresh news : http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/Full&cid=1025787758432

I think that one of the signers of this racist ad , Haim Druckman, is a member of the coalition government.

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