We're Nuts
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Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:20 am

As I have mentioned in other threads, certain things going on in this country right now disturb me. Everyday there are more and more reports of people being arrested for perfectly legal "crimes", not being told what they are being held for, not being read any of their rights, and not being allowed to contact a lawyer. Then Ashcroft has the nerve to go off and say "if you question us, you are a terrorist".

It seems clear enough now that the Bush administration is not interested in preserving rights. Thankfully, the ACLU is. And every American here should support them, because I know every American here loves freedom.

But freedom isn't just something you can wake up one morning and decide to have. You have to fight for freedom. Freedom is a test every single day of your life. Once you can listen to someone say something that you would sooner spend your life fighting against, and say to him "I don't like what you said, but I love that you said it", then you can call yourself free.

Bush doesn't want you to be free, but the ACLU does. Please support them!

http://www.aclu.org
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KROC
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:42 am

Thank God. Me and Sheriff Nuts FINALLY have a topic to throw down over.

Everyday there are more and more reports of people being arrested for perfectly legal "crimes", not being told what they are being held for, not being read any of their rights, and not being allowed to contact a lawyer. Then Ashcroft has the nerve to go off and say "if you question us, you are a terrorist".

Everyday? Funny, things must be happening differently in Seattle because around me, everyday, I don't see of hear of more and more reports of being being hassled and such. Also, Billy Joe with his lack of teeth being accused of slapping up his ole lady, and is questioning why he is being held, I am sure Ascroft does not think is a terrorist. Statements such as these can be taken in several different ways, and leave it to an outed Republican Hater to start twisting from the start.

It seems clear enough now that the Bush administration is not interested in preserving rights. Thankfully, the ACLU is. And every American here should support them, because I know every American here loves freedom.

Hey Superfly ERRRRRRRRRRRRR Sheriff Nuts. How in the world can the Bush Administration not be intrested in preserving rights? Thing is, with people of your stance, if Bush and Co. didn't do anything like they are now, they would be criticised. When they do something, they are criticised. Hell, wasn't/isn't the ALCU overly concerned for Taliban prisioners in Gitmo? Now I respect the ALCU to a point, but to put blind faith into them is a huge mistake. Putting blind faith into anything is a huge mistake.

Oh, and lastly, people have been getting hassled, detained for no reason, denied access to a lawyer, their wig split, ect. for a long long time. It's not a new problem. Don't try and limit it to the Bush Presidency.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:47 am

to an outed Republican Hater to start twisting from the start.

Me? Awwww, c'mon KROC, that hurts.... You know I hate everyone equally.


Now I respect the ALCU to a point, but to put blind faith into them is a huge mistake. Putting blind faith into anything is a huge mistake.

Who's putting blind faith in anything? I put faith in the ACLU to preserve my rights like I put faith in Safeway to have my dinner. But blind? Nah....


Oh, and lastly, people have been getting hassled, detained for no reason, denied access to a lawyer, their wig split, ect. for a long long time. It's not a new problem. Don't try and limit it to the Bush Presidency.

True. The Government can do anything in the interest of public safety... and now is a perfect time to exploit that, wouldn't you say?


Anyhoo, I just wanted to acknowledge the ACLU for at least attempting to protect our rights as citizens under the Constitution.  Smile

Ashcroft gets a  Sad
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learpilot
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:55 am


Thankfully, the ACLU is. And every American here should support them,

One word - or acronym: NAMBLA

I would never, and advise everyone I know, to not support an organization who fights for the rights of people to molest children. I'd suggest that you don't either.
Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
 
NWA
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:56 am

The ACLU needs to just dwindle down. They have no intrest in the welfare of this country. I hate them with a passion.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
777236ER
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:57 am

Rights are overrated.

People like to feel that they're in control. They're NOT. Whatever rights you think you have, you're not in control. You've got a gun -- whoopy shit. IRS/Inland Revenue type a few things into a computer you've got no house no car and no life. You've got a lawyer. Big deal -- the most expensive lawyer will win the case.

The fact is that the government controls your life. You can't stop that. In some ways it a GOOD thing. Certain countries have a very authoritarian government, especially some in Europe. Some of those countries are very prosperous and have a high standard of living. People there say they don't care whether the state rules their lives are not -- it makes their lives better so why should they care?

You are putting blind faith in the government. In the FBI and the CIA to stop you getting blown up. On the military to stop you being invaded. On the food and drug commissions to stop you being poisoned and on the power commisions to give you the power to use your PC to post this on the internet.

Your rights stand fot jack-shit. Realise the truth.
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NWA
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:58 am

Learpilot,

they should find out where there having one of there confrences and call in an airstrike on thoes sicko's.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:01 am

Lear and NWA, could you kindly provide us with the part of the Constitution that says you may have free speech as long as you don't belong to NAMBLA?
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KROC
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:02 am

Safeway? I refused to shop at a Safeway when I was in Cali. Good luck brotha.

True. The Government can do anything in the interest of public safety... and now is a perfect time to exploit that, wouldn't you say?

I would say the government, no matter who is in control can manipulate things to make it a "perfect time to expliit".
 
NWA
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:05 am

Its an organization that stands up for MEN molsesting LITLLE BOYS. There is a point were you can hide behind free speech. This is one of they. They are fileing lwsuites against the airlines? That's so ridiculous I cant even stand it. Again, there is a line that is drawn between free speech and the other side, and you know it.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:06 am

Where is that line, and who put it there?

And no, I don't know it.
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777236ER
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:10 am

That's the problem, We're Nuts.

Where IS the line? Is being pro-Palestinian allowed? How about pro-abortion? Pro-rape? Pro-child abuse? Pro-murder? After all, it's all free speech.
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NWA
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:10 am

I am surprised you dont know they line. I will give an example. If I got on radio and said a bunch of "bad" words, I would be fired, you cant say certin words on the radio. So why isn't the ACLU all over that? Thats one example out of many. BTW, The point of my Previous post was to show that the ACLU SEES NO PROBLEM WITH MEN MOLESTIING LITTLE BOYS. Freedom fighters?
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:19 am

Swearing is different than speaking your mind. If all you have on your mind is a swear word, then you are an idiot. Idiots can talk all they want, they just don't get heard.


ACLU SEES NO PROBLEM WITH MEN MOLESTIING LITTLE BOYS

Bullshit. Plain old undeniable bullshit. The ACLU is not supporting what they do, it's supporting their right to talk. NAMBLA has the same freedom of speech rights as you, NWA (a frightening thought, as I am beginning to wonder who the greater evil is -- joke), whether you like it or not. Maybe only people who agree with you should be able to talk? No, that's called Totalitarianism. We are a Republic, are we not?


I say the line, if there must be one, is when you start threatening to do harm to someone else. Everything up until then exists only in your mind.
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777236ER
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:22 am

I say the line, if there must be one, is when you start threatening to do harm to someone else

IF there must be one?

So if I were to say we should bomb Afghanistan after September 11th that's OVER the line?
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We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:29 am

Sorry, should have been more clear. I meant a specific person.
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777236ER
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:30 am

Ok, so if i say rape in general is ok, is that acceptable?
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We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:49 am

Yes, because you haven't indicated that you plan on committing a crime.

Example: "I'm going to slit your throat, 777," is unacceptable, because you clearly are planning on doing bodily harm to another.

However, saying that "Slitting throats is good and moral," is acceptable, because it's just an opinion, nothing more.


Of course all of the above is for public speaking. I've said things (jokingly, I swear) to my friends that could probably get me deported. But hey, who hasn't? A private conversation has different rules, rules only you can decide on.
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777236ER
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:55 am

So if I go on the radio, start saying how i think everyone should rape everyone else, with 20 uses of fuck in every sentence, and I get pulled from the air, is that going against my constitution right? (Well not mine, seeing as though I'm British. But you know what I mean)
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We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:30 am

Radio is private, the owners can do whatever they want.
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NWA
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:26 am

"Maybe only people who agree with you should be able to talk? No, that's called Totalitarianism. We are a Republic, are we not?"

Hardley. I respect people that disagree with me. I dont respect people that dont say anything however. Thos is why, for the most part, I dont agree with your ideas, but I respect your right to say them and the points that you make. I am more of a libritrian thank you, I hate points of authority. Now then, by supporting them, even there right to free speech, IMO, is suporting them.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
Guest

RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:17 am

Bush doesn't want you to be free, but the ACLU does. Please support them!

LOL, that's a good one We're nuts. Sounds like YOU'RE NUTS. Now before I throw up all of my dinner, let me tell you how wrong you are when you say that the Aclu are the freedom fighters. The ACLU is an organization that means well, but in reality is corrupt. I have gone to the trouble in finding a few articles on the internet to back up my point, and here is just a little of what I found....

Source: http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/WarZoneChaptIVD.html
Copyright © 1981, 1988, 1993 by Andrea Dworkin. All rights reserved.

The American Civil Liberties Union claims to protect rights, political dissenters, and the vitality of political and creative discourse. The organization, in my view, is exceptionally corrupt, a handmaiden of the pornographers, the Nazis, and the Ku Klux Klan. Only the pornographers give them lots of money. The Nazis and the Klan they help on principle. It's their form of charity work. I didn't understand this in 1981. I thought something was wrong but I wasn't exactly sure what. I wrote this piece to try to raise a real debate about the values and tactics of the ACLU. Forget it, folks. The ACLU is immune to criticism because virtually none gets published--none on the Left. I couldn't get this piece published but I did get some mean--even handwritten--letters from left, progressive, and libertarian editors expressing their disgust with my "contempt'' for free speech. Speech is what I do; it ain't free; it costs a lot. This piece has never been published before.

Read the whole thing @ http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/WarZoneChaptIVD.html

Source: http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/aclu/PennySeator.html
Penelope Seator December 15, 1991


Dear Editor,
It's the 200th anniversary of The Bill of Rights, and what is the American Civil Liberties Union doing? In San Francisco, they are threatening a feminist organization with legal action to silence their political speech. Yes, that's right, the same folks who brought you the free speech rationale for defending the Nazis, the Klan and the pornographers, including child pornographers, are bringing you the threat of silencing explicitly political feminist speech because they have been . . . well, it seems they've been offended.
Always Causing Legal Unrest, whose acronym is ACLU, has parodied the American Civil Liberties Union in political leaflets and buttons. In particular, it has parodied the American Civil Liberties Union's version of First Amendment doctrine by which, mindless of political context and power, it defends the political status quo by championing those who perpetrate abuse in the name of speech. In response, the American Civil Liberties Union has written a letter threatening to invoke the power of the state to suppress political speech in order to put an end to the parody of their organization.


Read the whole thing @ http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/aclu/PennySeator.html

The ACLU

Always Causing Legal Unrest


Richard
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:06 am

Interesting articles... but none of them prove anything. You have this picture in your head of the ACLU being an evil organization, but on what basis? Yes, they have problems, just like any other large group. At least they are trying to preserve the Constitution.
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747-451
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:24 pm

If you are worried about "freedom" and "privacy", why don't you sick the ACLU on Microsoft? I can tell more about a person by looking at their "cookies" than the FBI and CIA combined....
 
zeus01
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:20 pm

We're Nuts:

I bet you didn't know who the biggest contributors to the ACLU financially are: Pornographers. One of the lowest forms of society, this scum pours the money of that they rake off addicted souls into the ACLU to defend there pics.

Theyre not trying to preserve the constition, there trying to make it so that anything flies that their 3rd party interest groups want. Lefty's always stick up for the ACLU.

It always amazes me to see a democrat who says Bush is trying to take away rights...........generally socialist liberals like Were Nuts do that for us, not Bush.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:28 pm

I bet you didn't know who the biggest contributors to the ACLU financially are: Pornographers. One of the lowest forms of society, this scum pours the money of that they rake off addicted souls into the ACLU to defend there pics.

So? They don't have rights?


Theyre not trying to preserve the constition, there trying to make it so that anything flies that their 3rd party interest groups want. Lefty's always stick up for the ACLU.

I'd like to know, in your world, who gets free speech and who doesn't? Would I qualify? After all, you don't like my opinions. So maybe you should silence me.


It always amazes me to see a democrat who says Bush is trying to take away rights...........generally socialist liberals like Were Nuts do that for us, not Bush.

That old thing again? Listen, I asked you in another thread to elaborate on this statement, and you let it drop. I figured you couldn't.
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zeus01
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:40 pm

No, I did want to elaborate, but I forgot what post we were argueing on. Id do it tonight, but its almost 1am and im not thinking the best, so Ill do it tomorrow. After Rush of course, right Were nuts? Not that evil bastard.

I didn't say that the people who play the ACLU puppet don't have rights. Id like you to find where I said that please. I just said its very biased, which generaly has a way of bluring what our "rights" really are.

Were Nuts, if I was running the show, yes, I would silence you if I don't like your opinion. Fortunantly for you and your socialist liberal fiends, oops, I mean friends, Im not. BTW< I am kidding, sort of.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:47 pm

Go ahead, keep right on calling me a socialist, you fascist Nazi. < I am kidding, sort of.

Will be anxiously awaiting your explanation.
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Boeing4ever
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:48 pm

Privacy for all!!!!!!! How would you like to wake up to THIS in the morning!?



B4e
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:50 pm

Dammit B4e, I hope you get your ass banned for this!!  Laugh out loud
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Boeing4ever
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:54 pm

Free expression my friend We're Nuts. You can't silence me, if you do, the ACLU will ride your A$$.

B4e  Big thumbs up
 
jessman
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:07 pm

Appearantly the line is drawn the second someone mentions God, at least according to the ACLU

In February 1996, the ACLU filed suit in federal court in Alabama claiming two school districts engaged in unconstitutional religious practices. In October 1997, U.S. District Court Judge Ira DeMent issued a permanent injunction forbidding the DeKalb County schools from engaging in various religious activities. The injunction also ordered school officials to stop students from engaging in certain religious speech. The later part of the injunction went too far, a federal appeals court ruled in response to an ACLJ appeal.

They sued to have a federal judge remove the ten commandments from his courtroom, even though the supreme court has two depictions of the ten commandments in its room. BTW, like it or not the ten commandments are the basis of western law and therefore belong in the courtroom.
They brought suit on behalf of students at VMI, who are adults, trying to stop the tradition of saying grace before meals.

(Topeka, KS) - The American Center for Law and Justice, an international public interest law firm, today asked a federal court in Topeka, Kansas to dismiss a lawsuit against the Treasurer of Shawnee County, Kansas who has been sued by the ACLU for displaying a sign in county offices that bears the nation's motto "In God We Trust."

Source for Italicized quotes
What they haven't figured out is that freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion.

 
We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:14 pm

BTW, like it or not the ten commandments are the basis of western law and therefore belong in the courtroom.

At the time they first appeared, the "Commandments" were nothing interesting. Society had already placed similar laws into effect, and there was little need for more. We only hold them in such high esteem because they were able to survive better than the civilization Christianity destroyed.


What they haven't figured out is that freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion.

I never understood this. Why not? Couldn't a lack of religion in itself be a religion? Or are we required to be surrounded by at least one form of humanity stupidity at all times, to keep us humble and pathetic?
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apathoid
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:37 pm

Funny how you defend the ACLU for standing up for a groups right to say what they want to say and yet crucify those of us in the so called religious right who stand up and say what we want to say. Hmmmmm....come to think of it....I don't see the ACLU jumping in there to help the Moral Majority or any other such group. No agenda you say???? BAH!!!

 
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:29 pm

Well, you are absolutely right. The ACLU does tend to forget certain groups. In fact, it might surprise some of you to know that I'm not even a member. Truth be told, I just wanted a fight. Thanks for giving it to me.

However, I am glad there is a group out there whose *intent*, at least, is to defend my Constitutional rights.

And Apathoid, while I may not agree with all that you say, I'll fight to the death for your right to say it.
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Guest

RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:45 pm

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
--Benjamin Franklin, 1759
 
777236ER
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:15 pm

Oh. Ok, so radio's private. How about I go into a public park and start preaching about how rape is good and how small children should be sexually abused. What should happen to me?
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We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:31 am

I see no problem with that. If people don't agree with you, they can stop listening.
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777236ER
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:59 am

Yes, but I would be taken off air for swearing and saying that rape is good. Why wouldn't the ACLU petition MY rights?!
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We're Nuts
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Thu Jul 11, 2002 2:22 am

You can't really say that they wouldn't.
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Greg
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:57 am

As a lawyer I applaud most the efforts of the ACLU. There have been several notable cases which I would not find very circumspect--but mostly they are protecting the Bill of Rights. Controversy has always followed them.

It's amazing how little most of you know about the law---yet talk about it like experts.

I'll agee with We're Nuts here. Once you stop supporting your rights--you will lose them.
 
wn700driver
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Thu Jul 11, 2002 4:47 am

WereNuts, Greg, & SAS,

The world is a better safer place b/c of people who think like you do. There are many causes I disagree with, but if you look at nations that have modern, powerful militaries & NO freedom of speech (China, Isreal, & India are good examples), well clearly they are places that people who value such freedoms would not like to live in. And for good reason. Ever since 11 sep, this nation (USa) has been racing down that slippery slope cleaverly masked as "security". I am actually not a politcal "lefty", --indeed I disagree quite strongly to most of what the liberal side of this nation has to offer--, but I do recognize that love it or hate it, the ACLU is looking out for YOUR right to have that opinion in the first place.

Also,
So if I go on the radio, start saying how i think everyone should rape everyone else, with 20 uses of fuck in every sentence, and I get pulled from the air, is that going against my constitution right?

Swearing on the radio you can't do, (though a lot of late-night shows are very lax on the issue & will oft "miss the button" if catch my drift. However, near everyday, I hear things like "of course that tart got raped, she totally deserved it anyways; I just hope it happens to her again for making the rest of us have to hear about it", or "I can't wait to round up all the morons in this country & just shoot them", or even "the whole rest of the world can can kiss our red white & blue ass, & if they don't like it, we'll nuke their asses back to the stone age! Hell, let's just take over the world. We can anyways." Needless to say, there are varrying degrees of seriousness involved, but the point is that we have people advocating wholesale genocide, rape, & needless conquest of nations peaceful to us, & whether the mean it or not, they have a right to say it. And they do.



Cheers
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
apathoid
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:07 am

I have never said that people shouldn't have the right to say whatever they want...including racist groups and the like. My beef with you is to call the ACLU "freedom fighters." They, like every other political group, believe you should be free to say what you please as long as you agree with their liberal agenda. They have never taken up a conservative cause, never defended an abortion rights protestor, etc. They are narrow minded pigs just like every other political action group out there. They thrive on controversy...chaos is their only cause.
 
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RE: Freedom Fighters: The Aclu

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:27 am

Thank you for your kind words, Wn700driver. It's nice to find another Southwest fan to agree with.  Big grin


Apathoid, the title is just to get your attention. I wouldn't call anyone a "freedom fighter", because we haven't had one yet. And if what you say is true, then that is wrong, and they should change it.
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