ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:11 pm

I have a question for the people who are critizing Israel (specifically SAS and 777236ER). What's the difference between American/British troops being in Afghanistan fighting terrorist then Israel being in "Palestine" fighting terrorists?

If anything, the US is worst. The US is dropping bombs killing civilians daily. IDF refuses to bomb the Palestinians because of Civilian causilities.

Both America/Britain and Israel have this in common:
-Have a strong army and are fighting a side very weaker than themselves

Ofcourse Israel is critized all the time but America isn't, why is that?

LY772
ISRAEL LA NEZAH
MAVET LA FALASTINAEIM
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:30 pm

The United States has no permanent territorial ambitions in Afghanistan. The Bush administration is not encouraging thousands of American citizens to set up settlements in Afghanistan, and no one in the U.S. government is advocating the expulsion of all Afghans from Afghanistan.
It's basically impossible to compare the two situations.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:36 pm

Let's just clear something up. 1) I don't support terrorism 2) I'm not pro either side. BOTH sides are fucked up and BOTH sides do things which can't be defended. The suicide bombings are obviously wrong. That being said, the occupations of certain Palestinian towns and settlements are wrong.

No one side is blameless.

That being said, is America and the UK and the EU occupying Afghanistan? Nope. Has America the UK and the EU set up a new government and brought hope to the thousands of Afghanis living there? Yes.

Is Israel occupying Palestinian land? Yes. Is Israel helping to set up a new government and helping to bring hope to thousands of Afghanis living there? Nope.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

777236ER

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:43 pm

777236ER: Is Israel occupying Palestinian land? Yes. Is Israel helping to set up a new government and helping to bring hope to thousands of Afghanis living there? Nope.

Not even to the palestinians...  Wink/being sarcastic
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:44 pm

I know what I mean that's all that counts  Smile
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

777236ER

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:55 pm

777236ER: I know what I mean that's all that counts

Just couldn´t resist imagining all the poor, oppressed afghanis in palestine...  Wink/being sarcastic


But seriously, I agree that the parallels between Afghanistan and Palestine are next to nonexistent. The taleban were an oppressive regime, which explains the afghanis´ collective relief when they were finally toppled.

Yes, there are plaestinian morons who commit crimes against israeli civilians. And yes, there are israeli morons who commit crimes against palestine civilians (among them taking their land away).

The solution is not to remove one of the two populations, the solution is removing the morons on both sides from power!
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:26 pm

"If anything, the US is worst. The US is dropping bombs killing civilians daily"

You won't hear me say one good word about soldiers who understand "celebration shots" as attacks on them. The bad thing is that they do it frequently, somehow they should have learned by now how Afghans celebrate.

Well, the people here depend on what informations they gain from the media. And the media is mainly reporting what they have as moving pictures (nothing from Afghanistan, tons of destroyed houses in Palestine) or what policticans say. And why so few european politicans criticize these attacks ?

Germany & Great Britain : Both involved, so you can't expect them to criticize their own troops.

Italy: Berlusconi wants to have best relationships with Bush, so he would criticize anything connected with the USA.

France: The criticize it from time to time, but nobody listens to them. And they have plenty of domestic political problems (Le Pen comes to my mind).

The Rest: To small and unimportant, maybe they criticize it and it isn't reported in the media, maybe they don't have the balls to say something against the USA and the two most important countries in europe.
 
Krushny
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 4:22 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:40 pm

LY772, you are stepping on dangerous grounds. The most shameless apologists of Israel actions (right or wrong) in this forum come from North America. How do you dare criticise their beloved nation?  Embarrassment

As for differences between both actions, another one is duration. Israel is occupying WB, Gaza and Golan since 1967, inhabited mostly by non Jewish people, and in those 35 years Israel has not yet decided what to do with them (give full citizenship, expel, retire and independice, whatever) . Israel has always found excuses to keep the status quo and maintain the occupation against an hostile population.
I highly doubt that US and UK troops will be active in Afghanistan 35 years from now...
 
Rai
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RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:06 am

LY772: I want my money back!
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:21 am

Yeah, that's smart. Get some of your strongest supporters pissed at you. The differences in the situations are many, the similarities few.

"If anything, the US is worst. The US is dropping bombs killing civilians daily."

Yes, mistakes have been made. It's tragic when innocent American or Canadian troops are killed by "friendly fire". It's tragic when innocent Afghan civilians are killed by a mistakenly dropped bomb. Investigations will (and have) happened, but your insinuation that the US is killing Afghan civilians "daily" is absolutely false. The reason these incidents become news is that they are infrequent and extra-ordinary.

However, there is one big difference you failed to mention -- The Afghan people actually want us there. Ask a Palestinian if they want Israeli troops there, and I think you'll know the answer. That, in my opinion, is one of the biggest differences.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:43 am

The US don't occupy Afghanistan...

By the way: Israel always claims to be so human and careful with its military actions...but why do they keep the media out? And why don't they allow the UN to investigate their actions, e.g. Jenin?
Anything to hide? Of course not, it's just because, because, because.



Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:29 am

Because of the same reason the USA is afraid of having a neutral court investigating war crimes commited by their soldiers.
 
Guest

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:34 am

Regardless of what a person thinks of America, there is absolutely no parralell between the two situations. As you have seen here, you have been shot down with very valid arguments.

All I can say is nice try.




VH-ADG
 
us330
Posts: 3407
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:54 am

For the first time ever, I actually agree with ADG. The US has every intention of leaving once a stable government has been setup, and is actually trying to improve the lives of the non-terrorists living. While I am somewhat pro-Israel, I must admit that electing Sharon was a terrible mistake, and that if Israel wanted to make themselves look better, they could do something that none of the Arab Countries have done for the Palestinian people: invest money in building an effective infrastructure to improve the lives of the non-terrorists.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:07 am

Israel questioning US actions!? Am I hearing correctly!? That's a laugh!

The US and UK are trying to set up democracy in Afghanistan. Civilian casulties are accidental, and the US and UK admits to them. Israel on the other hand pounds Palestinian civilians daily, keep the media out, and cuts off its leadership from its people.

Message for Israel: DON'T EVER QUESTION THE POLICY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!!

A proud American,
B4e
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
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RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:15 am

"Message for Israel: DON'T EVER QUESTION THE POLICY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Israel !!!!!
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:28 am

I don't have a problem with ANYONE questioning US policy. I do, however, consider it an insult to equate our operations in Afghanistan with Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories. There are far more differences than similarities between the two.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: USA And UK - Afghanistan / Israel - "Palestine"

Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:14 am

Why would Sharon question the mideast policy of the USA?

He´s making it!  Sad

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