JETPILOT
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Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:10 am

Arafat..... "This is a crime. No normal-minded, conscientious and feeling person could imagine such a massacre," Palestinian President Yasser Arafat ( news - web sites) told reporters at his West Bank compound, surrounded by Israeli troops.

"I ask the whole world how they can stand silent and not stop these crimes, particularly now that we have started positive initiatives for progress."

Is this guy for real? He can't be.....

How can he publicly condemn the killing of civilians when his suicide bombers have been extoling damage against Israeli civilians as the primary target not collateral damage?

Payback's a bitch...... sometimes in a big way.

Arafat is in no position to cry about civilian casualties.

JET
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:16 am

"This is a crime."

ROTFL. As compared to the countless crimes he's committed?

"No normal-minded, conscientious and feeling person could imagine such a massacre."

Oh, puhleez! This is the same guy who won't say a word after countless suicide attacks against Israeli civilians.

Is this guy for real? He can't be.....

Why not? And doesn't he sound EXACTLY like ADG, SAS23, Avitsiya, Goodbye, EmiratesLover, and the rest of THI, JET? Almost if it were one of them talking.

Oh, and I'm sure SAS23 will be chiming in real soon on how someone else is being bad to his Palestinian buddies.
 
ryanb741
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:19 am

You say that but the result is going to be loads of Israeli limbs flying around Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. And then the cycle will start afresh.

Surely current policy by both sides is clearly not working?
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:24 am

Surely current policy by both sides is clearly not working?

On that, Ryan, I agree with you 1000%

Unfortunately, there are too many voices on here who say simply that one side needs to change their ways, but the fact is BOTH must find a way to break this cycle. It's not up to one to do it-both must engage each other in a far different manner than has been the case for 5 decades now.
 
clipperhawaii
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:25 am

Pay back IS a bitch! The military leader of Hamas was targeted, not civilians. Unlike homicide bombers who target men, women, and innocent children!
Let 'em cry. Stop terrosism and you will find how soon F-16's will stop flying over Gaza.

CH


"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:27 am

(Looks at watch) I'm getting worried. SAS23 hasn't shown up yet.  Sad He should have been here by now.......
 
ryanb741
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:30 am

After initial online battles with you Alpha_1 - I realise that I agree with you a hell of a lot of the time.

It is clear that BOTH sides have an equal obligation to peace. Blind terrorism from the Palestinians is never justified, and for all that neither is Isralei aggression and illegal occupation of Palestinian territory.

The mad thing is, to an impartial outsider, the solution seems ludicrously simple. Israel - withdraw immediately. Then see what happens. If the Palestinian attacks still continue, then it becpomes a war against terror instead of a freedom fight, and then the Israelis would be fully entitled to use all necessary power to fight back.

The current tit-for-tat hate attacks from both sides don't solve anything IMHO
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:31 am

After initial online battles with you Alpha_1 - I realise that I agree with you a hell of a lot of the time.

Thanks Ryan-it's called "finding common ground". I don't hold out hope of ever reaching common ground with some members on here, but I'm willing to try.
 
ryanb741
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:32 am

Clipperhawaii - yes the Hamas guy was a asshole who is better dead but by using a 1 ton bomb to kill one guy in an apartment block full of civilians surely you must admit the response from Israel was a bit OTT and unconcerned about the civilians?

We need to ask the question, do both sides actually want peace?
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Rai
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:32 am

The military leader of Hamas was targeted, not civilians.

Not according the the Whitehouse. Check it out.
 
wn700driver
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:33 am

Damn, they were so close to renegotiating a peace. Well, back to meatgrinder...
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:35 am

Well, Rai, as many of those who are so against the U.S. would always say, "Since when does the White House know anything?"  Big grin

Seriously, I think the White House is wrong to critisize on this instance. We'd be a little ticked if we got OBL, and Britian, for example, critisized it.
 
ryanb741
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:38 am

I guess we will probably never know the true facts anyway. That is the most striking thing about all of this. There is one camp who says 'Israel is evil' and the other going 'Palestinians are all terrorists'. Thing is, very few people can claim they know the real story behind all of this, and the conspiracy theorists have a field day!
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
clipperhawaii
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:42 am

In a rare U.S. criticism of Israel, President Bush called the attack "heavy-handed" and said it "does not contribute to peace," White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said.

Personally, I like killing flies with a hammer instead of a simple plastic fly swatter. The result is the same, but it feels oh so much better when you get one with a hammer! It makes a hell of a statement!

I feel remorse for those innocents that were killed. But I feel no more remorse for them than the innocent Israeli's killed by members of Hamas.

My advice, if you live near a suspected terrorist you had better move! Don't give them refuge and protect thier lives. The life that may be lost may be your own.

CH
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
artsyman
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:48 am

If it was Bin Laden in that building, and the US levelled it, would the UN, EU and pretty much the rest of the world condemn the attack ?

The UN couldnt complain about it fast enough, yet they still don't say a word about the suicide bombers.


Jer
 
Nik
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:03 am

"...yet they[UN] still don't say a word about the suicide bombers"

What do you mean?
 
NWA742
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:20 am

This is a crime. No normal-minded, conscientious and feeling person could imagine such a massacre

What an idiot. He just shows even more support for terrorism by saying that. A terrorist leader was killed and he calls it a crime, good god.

Is this guy for real? He can't be.....

Like Alpha said, of course he's real. In fact, there are some on here who sound just like him. SAS23, ADG, Goodbye, Aviatisya, etc. ADG for one said directly that she believes terrorism is justified.

I'm getting worried. SAS23 hasn't shown up yet. He should have been here by now......

Don't worry, he'll be here, back to defend the terrorists once again with his buddies ADG, Aviatsiya, and Goodbye  Smile

Unfortunately, there are too many voices on here who say simply that one side needs to change their ways, but the fact is BOTH must find a way to break this cycle. It's not up to one to do it-both must engage each other in a far different manner than has been the case for 5 decades now.

Couldn't have said it better.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:23 am

I condemn this attack as well. Of course there were civilian casualties, they knowingly bombed an apartment complex. What else did they think was going to be there? A militarty base?

I condemn all types of terrorism, and this act qualifies. Isreal dropped the ball in the biggest way here. The only positive thing in this was that a major terrorist was taken out.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Guest

RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 7:27 am

The problem is that it's not a fair fight. Israel has F-16's to do it's dirty work. Hamas uses the only weapons at it's disposal. Just to clarify..... Arafat is not Hamas nor is he in control of Hamas.
 
artsyman
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 8:54 am

Nik wrote..."...yet they[UN] still don't say a word about the suicide bombers" What do you mean?


The UN is very vocal in it's criticism of Israel, and before I get attacked for saying this, in most cases, their criticism is reasonable. Where the problem comes along is that there are suicide bombings more or less every other day, yet you don't see Kofi Banana calling press conferences to say that the suicide bombings are unnaceptable.

In short, I don't understand why he finds it ok for the Palestinian suicide machine to continue without a comment, but the second Israel does anything, he is competing with SAS23 in the 100 meter sprint to see who can criticise Israel first....

Jeremy
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Att

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:08 am

....The mad thing is, to an impartial outsider, the solution seems ludicrously simple. Israel - withdraw immediately. Then see what happens.

Actually, Ryan, Israel withdrew from most of the West bank several years ago as negotiated by the Oslo accords, and we all see what happened. The violence against Israelis only increased. The withdrawal was seen as a sign of weakness, that had to be exploited. That's how we got to where we are today.

Israel then began withdrawing again after the Bethlehem incident, only to be drawn back in by new violence. The pattern is very obvious -- whenever Israel makes a move toward peace or withdrawal, the violence intensifies. Why?

Pete

"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Hepkat
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Israeli Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:18 am

I usually stay clear of these threads nowadays, but it bothers me that many people cannot see the difference between targeting an enemy and targeting an enemy with civilians. The former is defensible (not that I condone state sanctioned assassinations), the latter inexcusable and barbaric in this age of enlightenment. How can any so-called "democratic outpost of Western ideals" justify the killing of 14 civilians (9 of which were children) in an effort to assassinate ONE suspected terrorist?

The problem is not so much Israel carrying out assassinations, but rather Israel deliberately targeting civilians. There is NO justification for such an act. As a matter of fact, by deliberately targeting innocent civilians, the Israeli government has put itself directly on par with the very terrorists they seek to eliminate.
 
david b.
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:32 am

Did you see the pic that Jetpilot posted? It was what he said that should bother you not the pic itself. And I agree with you Hepkat. I condone suicide bombings but for people to say that it was good to kill civilians was not a very nice thing. Im glad the terrorist is dead but by firing a missile at a apartment complex full of familes and children is uncalled for. By doing this its like Israel putting itself as low as the suicide bombers.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
flyguy1
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:41 am

Hepkat,
Who says Isreal was targeting civilians? Is there a possibility killing children was in error?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Guest

RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:45 am

No, by firing into that home, Israel is taking steps to defend its citizens. Terrorists blowing up pizza huts are taking no steps to defend their citizens.

completely different. yes this was terribly, but israel hates this negative publicity as much as anyone, so there must have been good reason for the attack. Likely this Hamas guy was planning an imminent attack that would have massacred many Israeli civilians.

tnnh
 
JETPILOT
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:49 am

The pic should bother you as it is anindication of Palestinian values.

To kill Israelis.

What western civilization allows kids to carry assault rifles?

I usually confiscate assualt weapons when I see my neighbors kids running around with them.

These people have no place in a modern world.

JET
 
david b.
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:51 am

How about all the innocent people? The young children?Personally I think they should have send in a convoy to pick him up. What I don't understand is why whenboth sides are almost at agreement with each other, someone has to screw it up.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
david b.
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:53 am

And why did you wish 15 kids were dead?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Att

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:05 am

According to this CNN article, the Israelis thought there were no civilians in the building.....

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/07/23/mideast/index.html

I find it rather revealing that when a Palestinian suicide bomber kills Israelis, the world leaders utter an ever-so-feeble "whilst we never condone violence against innocent civilians, ...yada-yada-yada...". Yet when Israel retaliates, they are condemned in the harshest terms.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
JETPILOT
Topic Author
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:06 am

Becasue 15 kids with assault weapons can do the situation nor the world any good.

You can write off those children as noncontributors to civilized society.

JET

 
Guest

RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:07 am

What I don't understand is why whenboth sides are almost at agreement with each other,

Where are people getting this? The Hamas "ceasefire" shouldn't be taken seriously. It's been offered before, its a short term thing. Hamas has always hated Israel, attacked Israel, its stated goal is Israel's destruction. There is no cease fire with Hamas, only destruction, a significant step of which Israel took yesterday.

The dead civilians are unfortunate, but had Israel not acted, many more Israelis would have been killed and the IDF's obligation is to protect Israelis, not Palestinians.

TNNH
 
bravo45
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:20 am

Israel then began withdrawing again after the Bethlehem incident, only to be drawn back in by new violence. The pattern is very obvious -- whenever Israel makes a move toward peace or withdrawal, the violence intensifies. Why?
Well then know it! This time Hamass was about to (perhaps today) announce a halt to all terrorist acivities including suicide bomboings. I remember some saying in an earlier thread that whenever Israel pushes for peace there is a suicide attack indicating that they don't want. Well what does THIS incident proves???

Who says Isreal was targeting civilians? Is there a possibility killing children was in error?
Nice!!!! Clever!! You target a whole bulding full of innocent civilians and bring it down, despite the fact that you hit the building that you targetted, the people insideWEREN'T your targets and that it was an ERROR. WOW!!!!!!!! What else the bomb was supposed to do???? THIS IS STATE TERRORISM!

No, by firing into that home, Israel is taking steps to defend its citizens. Terrorists blowing up pizza huts are taking no steps to defend their citizens.
Are you justifying the killings of 14 innocent civilians that include 9 children

I say this with heavy heart but you perhaps don't consider palestinians to be humans or you don't consider them to be innocent civilians so:
All of you who are backing it up! Would you like to be killed along with your families just because you happen to be in a building with a SUSECTED terrorist????
 
david b.
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:23 am

Do you condone the death of the people though?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
bravo45
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:24 am

The dead civilians are unfortunate, but had Israel not acted, many more Israelis would have been killed and the IDF's obligation is to protect Israelis, not Palestinians.
So just because you "thought" that the cease fire would not be true, this was all but bad.
IDF did a fine job! Atleast 14 more families of suicide mombers are ready for the revenge with all they have got (by the way that only a life with some explosives)
 
david b.
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:26 am

Just like the people in the WTC paid
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
david b.
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:29 am

Well 14 more suicide bombers. Stalled peace talks...........way to go  Yeah sure

Why couldn't they just send in a convoy to pick him up? or use a sniper?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
bravo45
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:32 am

Well David, I think that those snipers would have killed the guys that escaped too. And remember Israel doesn't even allow an Ambulance during the operation.
 
Hepkat
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:15 pm

Since when did you all become expert statesmen? Every country around the world, of every religion, whether with or against Israel, has condemned Israel's action. I'm now hearing on CNN that Israel would have aborted this mission had they known there were civilians in the area. But even the U.S. government has admitted that Israel must have known there were civilians in this building as it was located in a busy center of the city with crowds everywhere. I find it baffling that one of the most "expert" armies, thoroughly versed in the art of anti-terrorism tactics, with arguably some of the world's most technologically advanced weapons could have missed hundreds of civilians centered in a busy city area.

No one is saying Israel does not have a right to protect its citizens. No is saying terrorism against Israel should not be snipped at its root. However, the terrorists are terrorists precisely because they target innocent civilians. How is this any different from what Israel has done? As far as I see, Israel is the only country coming to its own defense.

Extremists targetting Israeli civilians in suicide bombings are to be condemned, but cannot be held to the same moral standards as the government of Israel, who takes much pleasure in informing the world community that they're a "democratic outpost of Western ideals".

According to the U.K. foreign ministry (and I paraphrase), "international regulations prohibit the indiscriminate targeting of civilians, regardless of the military goal". The EU high commission has called it a senseless declaration of war. The US has called it "heavy handed" and not conducive to peace talks. The UN has said Israel is shamefully ignoring its humanitarian obligations. And the condemnations go on and on. Not ONE country has come to Israel's defense.

This says much more to me than die-hard supporters of Israel who will go to great lengths to defend each inappropriate action of Israel.
 
bravo45
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:21 pm

I agree with you Hepkat! This was not directed to all of you. I see to it and appreciate you sence of right and wrong. I wanted one of those die-hard Israeli supporters to comment on this. Just wanted to know what are they saying now.
 
NWA
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:53 pm

well, I have an Idea for the U.S.


STAY OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
david b.
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:58 pm

Damn we should have done that all along. Maybe the WTC sould be still standing.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Guest

RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:03 pm

Why?
Well then know it! This time Hamass was about to (perhaps today) announce a halt to all terrorist acivities including suicide bomboings.


Oh please. Thats BS. No one was taking Hamas seriously. They have "offered" these BS treaties in the past, only to reneg time and time again. This was not some situation changing event, Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel, they are not stopping suicide attacks voluntarily. Israel will destroy their capability soon. Then there will be security.

Nice!!!! Clever!! You target a whole bulding full of innocent civilians and bring it down, despite the fact that you hit the building that you targetted, the people insideWEREN'T your targets and that it was an ERROR. WOW!!!!!!!! What else the bomb was supposed to do????

What was the bomb supposed to do? It was supposed to don a pizza boy's outfit and strip for teenagers. The bomb was supposed to kill a lead Palestinian terrorist who has killed many Israeli civilians. It completed its mission. Some Palestinian civilians were killed, thats unfortunate, Israel should compensate their families and promise to be more careful.

Are you justifying the killings of 14 innocent civilians that include 9 children

I am justifying the killing of 1 terrorist leader who has murdered many more than 14 innocent civilians.

All of you who are backing it up! Would you like to be killed along with your families just because you happen to be in a building with a SUSECTED terrorist????

Of course not, but I wouldn't have been anywhere near this animal. These people knew he was targetted, the Israelis had missed him a few times on earlier occasions. What were they thinking? When I know a wanted criminal terrorist leader is in the next room, I get the hell out of there. The Palestinians in that apartment block never should have let him in. Foolish. My co-op board doesn't even allow dentists in!

Do you condone the death of the people though?

I strongly condone the liquidation of this terrorist savage. I hope Israel gets many more.

So just because you "thought" that the cease fire would not be true, this was all but bad.

Yes. I though with good reason Hamas would never compromise with Israel. How do I know? I glanced over their charter here on my bookcase. There was not going to be any meaningful ceasefire. Hamas is committed to the destruction of the Jewish state and they have demonstrated they are using "shahids" to do it. Why would they change now? It was compelte BS, probably to get Israel out of the territories so they could regroup.

Atleast 14 more families of suicide mombers are ready for the revenge with all they have got

Maybe. Or maybe these families will see this losing bloody struggle for what it is and are ready for something else, something better.

Just like the people in the WTC paid

The people in the WTC were not killed because they happened to be near an internationally wanted terrorist leader responsible for the mass murder of many civilians.

Why couldn't they just send in a convoy to pick him up? or use a sniper?

Because as good as the Israelis are, an Israeli convoy sent to teeming, crowded gaza Gaza City won't come back. Or the death toll would be much higher. Why didn't the US invade Japan to end WW2?

And remember Israel doesn't even allow an Ambulance during the operation.

Bullshit, Israel has no say in the matter. The Israelis allow the Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza City and most of the Gaza Strip. Red Crescent vans were all over the place in the pics I saw.

Every country around the world, of every religion, whether with or against Israel, has condemned Israel's action.

Every country around the world, of every religion, whether with or against Israel, with the exception of 1 has outlawed pot. That don't make it right. What kind of bullshit argument is this?

I'm now hearing on CNN that Israel would have aborted this mission had they known there were civilians in the area.

I hadn't heard that, but I believe it. It is far from Israel's interests to kill Palestinian civilians. If they watned to, they could have 2 million Palestinians in body bags by Thursday evening. They have no intention of doing so.

I find it baffling that one of the most "expert" armies, thoroughly versed in the art of anti-terrorism tactics, with arguably some of the world's most technologically advanced weapons could have missed hundreds of civilians centered in a busy city area.

If your report is right, Israel didn't know that civilians were in the target zone, I'll agree I too would find that baffling. But I don't think thats the case. I think Israel knew of the civilians and approved a strike that would limit civilian casualities. It is my belief something went wrong. Too large a bomb was used, the bomb went off course, two bombs were fired, etc.. I don't know.

No one is saying Israel does not have a right to protect its citizens.

No: I am hearing that loud and clear.

However, the terrorists are terrorists precisely because they target innocent civilians

NO. Terrorists are terrorists because they target unarmed civilians with the intention of killing as many as possible and instilling widespread fear and panic in a civilian population. Thats terrorism. Car thieves "target innocent civilians" but are hardly terrorists.

How is this any different from what Israel has done?

Israel has no intention on wantonly killing as many Palestinians as they can and committing widespread violence with no political aim or gain. Israel simply wanted to liquidate someone who has killed many innocent Israelis so he wouldn't do it again and sadly killed some innocent civilians in the process.

Palestinian terrorists targetting pizza restauratns are trying to kill people who have killed innocent Arabs and acidentally kill innocent civilians in the process? Bullox.

Extremists targetting Israeli civilians in suicide bombings are to be condemned, but cannot be held to the same moral standards as the government of Israel

I agree and they aren't. Suicide bombers are largely ignored or explained away now often times by you. Israel is never able to explain away or have ignored any of their operations, no matter how construcitve they are. Israel is held to the highest standard of any country in the world.

international regulations prohibit the indiscriminate targeting of civilians, regardless of the military goal".

It was not indiscrimiate, it was unintended. Even the British have killed innocent civilians by accident. Everyone has. It's sad, but part of war. Who thrust the intifdadah on the Israelis? It wasn't the Swedish bikini team (sadly  Laugh out loud).

TNNH
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:16 pm

No one is saying Israel does not have a right to protect its citizens.

I guess SAS23, ADG, EmiratesLover, David B, Avitsiya, Sonic, and the usual gang at THI count as nobody's then?

Extremists targetting Israeli civilians in suicide bombings are to be condemned, but cannot be held to the same moral standards as the government of Israel, who takes much pleasure in informing the world community that they're a "democratic outpost of Western ideals".

Why the hell not, Hepkat? You're basically saying "well, it's not as bad when the terrorists do it, because we expect it, but when Israel kills civilians it's twice as bad." Talk about a double standard of epic proportions! Extremists targeting civilians in Israel are doing it IN THE NAME OF GOD. Why should that not hold the same moral standard. That's pure hypocrisy.
 
bravo45
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:33 pm

Oh please. Thats BS. No one was taking Hamas seriously. They have "offered" these BS treaties in the past, only to reneg time and time again. ....
And so has Israel, and now this gives Hamas the free hand to conrinue the suicide bombngs for all its life or the life of Israel. So now no one can critisize Hamas for the up comming voilence that I can sense.

Some Palestinian civilians were killed, thats unfortunate, Israel should compensate their families and promise to be more careful.
14 innocent Palestinians for you are "some" whereas 4-5 or so Jews killed in a suicide attack is "too much to bear". As for the compensation, again would you accept the compensation and forget about your loved ones??
And you are talking as if those 9 children ahd known all about this and that it were those children that gave the so called "refuge" to the known terrorist.
Hey! I gotta go so I leave it here for the moment. Be right back.
 
artsyman
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:38 pm

well, I have an Idea for the U.S. STAY OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn we should have done that all along. Maybe the WTC sould be still standing

Bin Laden said that the attacks on WTC were driven by the occupation of the Americans on Saudi Land, meaning I assume the 5000 or so soldiers that are based there to protect the oil flow....

Not just Israel

Jeremy





 
david b.
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:43 pm

How about alpha1, TWANEEDSNOHELP, Jetpilot, Clipperhawaii and the rest of the A.net Zionist lobby counts as nobody Alpha. You need insults because we dont love israel? Thats really too bad.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
bravo45
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:45 pm

And one last thing before I go:
Israel would go bankrupt if it ever decides to pay compensation to the innocent people that it has killed. But in sharron's era the War Crimes criminal, I would say "Just forget it". He has just added another ones to his long list.
 
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OA412
Crew
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:03 pm

 Big thumbs up Hepkat!

It never ceases to amaze me that so many of you are so willing to bash any Palestinian action against Israel yet are so quick to defend any, and all, Israeli actions against the Palestinian people regardless of how brutal they may be. The "Israel's actions are always right/Israel is only acting to defend its citizens, state, etc./Isreali actions are always pure/Israel is always the victim" defense is unbelievably tired and does not hold up to any remotely serious examination of the facts in the Middle East Crisis. Hepkat is right, you do not call yourself a Western Outpost of Democracy in a sea of dictatorships when you commit such acts, when you enslave a minority population, and when you refuse to even consider the existence of a Palestinian State.

Of course the group of Palestinians engaged in suicide bombings should be condemned. What they are doing is killing innocent civilians, plain and simple. However, the IDF does the exact same thing when it targets an apartment in a busy residential area full of 14 innocent civilians and 1, yes 1, suspected terrorist. Forgive me if I refuse to believe that the IDF did not intentionally target civilians in this instance. The international condemnation of this action, and most of the actions of Israel of late, is quite telling. Frankly, I refuse to believe that anti-Semitism is behind any and all criticism of Israel. Did any of you who blindly support Israel ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, the international criticism of Israeli actions is justified.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Hepkat
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:07 pm

Why the hell not, Hepkat? You're basically saying "well, it's not as bad when the terrorists do it, because we expect it, but when Israel kills civilians it's twice as bad." Talk about a double standard of epic proportions! Extremists targeting civilians in Israel are doing it IN THE NAME OF GOD. Why should that not hold the same moral standard. That's pure hypocrisy.

Because they are a government, democratically elected, sworn to uphold laws and signature to several international agreements. They MUST be held to a higher standard that mere thugs.

This means you DON'T drop a bomb in a civilian area where you know there'll be a high chance of civilian casualty.

This means you DON'T deliberately target even one civilian in your pursuit of a suspect.
 
artsyman
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RE: Yasser Arafats Response To Isreali Missile Attack

Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:27 pm

This means you DON'T deliberately target even one civilian in your pursuit of a suspect

If Bin Laden was in the building, you think the US would let him go to save a couple of civilians.... how about Britain ?.....Germany ?....

Jeremy

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