Guest

Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 09, 2002 4:10 pm

With everyone talking about the introduction of the eastern countries will Ireland,Morocco, Sweden, Finland or Austria ever join?
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 09, 2002 4:40 pm

I don't think that the NATO doesn't want to have new members like Sweden, Ireland or Finland but would those countries be willing to join?

I would also like to ask you if the NATO would let Switzerland to join their club. No kidding, I don't want to say that Switzerland would be a new possible member but would it be possible?

What's the requirement to join the NATO?
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 09, 2002 5:05 pm

The Swiss have never had the balls to stand up for anything so they will not be part of NATO. And you also have a pro Saddam stance which would also put you at odds with the alliance. All of the countries I mentioned have met requirements for NATO.
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 10, 2002 11:44 am

Also what about adding some Caribbean states or cape Verde
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:41 am

Boeing in pdx
The Swiss have never had the balls to stand up for anything so they will not be part of NATO. And you also have a pro Saddam stance which would also put you at odds with the alliance. All of the countries I mentioned have met requirements for NATO.
PRO Saddam? Do you know what you are talking about???

Swiss have never had the balls to stand up for anything? Are you able to find Switzerland on a world-map and do you think Stockholm is the capital?
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:43 am

Sweden is neutral so I don't think Sweden will join.

Staffan
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:33 am

Bern is the capital and it is west of Germany east of France and north of Italy. And the Swiss have never took a stand of fought a war. The Swiss are cowards.
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:55 am

So how many wars has Boeing in pdx faught?
 
OH-LZA
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 7:14 am

Finland is neutral, so I don't think they'll join either.

Also, most Finns are against Finland joining the NATO.

Alex
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 7:45 am

We are talking about Nations not people here and America has fought and won all declared ones. And what do all you Euros have to be neutral the USSR is gone so they can stop being cowards and can join the alliance.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Boeing In Pdx

Fri Aug 16, 2002 8:27 am

Boeing in pdx: Bern is the capital and it is west of Germany east of France and north of Italy. And the Swiss have never took a stand of fought a war. The Swiss are cowards.

Almost. Switzerland is south of Germany.

Not quite there, yet, as with the rest of your statements...  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 8:55 am

Is believing that conflicts to a certain extent can be solved without war, the same as beeing cowards?
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 8:58 am

Bern is the capital and it is west of Germany east of France and north of Italy. And the Swiss have never took a stand of fought a war. The Swiss are cowards.

We are talking about Nations not people here and America has fought and won all declared ones. And what do all you Euros have to be neutral the USSR is gone so they can stop being cowards and can join the alliance.


Lol! Ok, people, some of you say that a lot of us Europeans are anti-American. But ffs, look at some of the Americans on this board. We have SOME right to get angry with these people.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:00 am

Have u received a dose of Dubya recently B in pdx? I smell warmongering.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:09 am

Boeing in pdx...there's your typical liberal democrat. He accuses the Republicans of warmongoring, yet he makes statements like the above, and blindly supports Israel.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:25 am

We are talking about Nations not people here and America has fought and won all declared ones. And what do all you Euros have to be neutral the USSR is gone so they can stop being cowards and can join the alliance.

OH OK. This is true.

Just one question though. What about Vietnam? Or was that an undeclared war?  Insane

The answer to that question is reason enough not to listen to the rest of the crap you are dribbling out.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:29 am

I think with all this anti-US rhetoric emminating out of Europe, why doesn't NATO just invite in Iraq? I mean, then Europe could use all it's Chamberlain-like powers of Persuasion to keep Saddam a good boy. And, of course, at the same time, why not just toss the U.S. right out of NATO?
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:38 am

Now that you are all done ranting back to the subject. Will any of the Atlantic states join Nato.
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 11:11 am

Now that you are all done ranting back to the subject.

Ummm......huh? Read your second post bud. You will see that you are the one who started the factless rant  Insane

Will any of the Atlantic states join Nato.

No. There is no need for them to join.
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15698
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 12:21 pm

While Finland, Sweden & Austria may never be in NATO, no doubt Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania are prime candidates. EL&L would like a guarantor to prevent another raping of their nations by their neighbour Russia. NATO should welcome EL&L to the fold.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 12:54 pm

I don't see how the hell you could call the swiss cowards for never fighting in a war. If anything they are smart. Smart b/c they know the consequences even if you win the war. What reason does Switzerland have for going to war? Switzerland is not pro-saddam, how the hell can you say that. They are alowing an embasy to be opened, There is also a US embassy in Bern inotherwords a true sign of neutrality. Switzerland's system is working quite well. Per capita they are the second richest country (behind luxemburg) in the world and the standard of living is extreamly high. Everyone has access to health care, the unemployed people are helped and not subbjected to a life on the street as they so often are here in america. The government hasn't gotten the country into 6 Trillion dollars of debt. They are much more aware about the environment and the consequences of poluting, (I just love the people here in america who drive alone to work in a suburban) They do not make have allies which they extort, bend and twist for personal gain. The government is much less corrupt as in the USA (I will not say uncorrupt as no government ever has earned this distinction.) They do not imprisson hundreds of people on a "hunch" for months with out releasing any information about these people.

I just don't say how you can argue that the USA is so much better than the swiss. Why do they have to be with nato? Nato is a corrupt system of mostly rich western countries that often extorts smaller less well off countries. If the swiss were in nato they would almost have to agree to a war with Iraq. This is something the swiss will not do.

America has won all its declared wars. What if you remove that declared part. The US most definatly lost in Vietnam (don't give me the excuse, "well millions more viet cong died, thats beyonmd the point the US lost) and Korea most certainly wasn't a victory. This war on terrorism is also one that will never be won. The USA is given all the credit for World war 2 when in truth it could not have been won w/o both the English and russian's. The russians paid the highest price and IMO deserve most of the credit for winning that war.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 12:57 pm

Russia deserves credit for helping to start the war! They murdered millions, and invaded Poland to boot! BAH!

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 1:11 pm

The USA is given all the credit for World war 2 when in truth it could not have been won w/o both the English and russian's.

THE TRUTH, if you want to hear it, is that the war would NOT have been won without the United States pouring in arms and troops during World War II. THE TRUTH, if you want to know it, is that, eventually, one of two things would have happened with out the U.S.-the Russians would have ended up at Calais, or the Russians would have split Europe with Germany, and the U.K. would have had to go it alone against Germany, and most likely lost.

THE TRUTH is that the decisive factor in the outcome of the Second World War, was the entrance of the United States on December 7th, 1941. THAT is the truth. I just love when someone likes to rewrite history simply to take a swipe at another country. Revisionism may make you feel better, but it's far from the trugh.
 
User avatar
OA412
Crew
Posts: 3859
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 1:48 pm

The Swiss have never had the balls to stand up for anything so they will not be part of NATO. And you also have a pro Saddam stance which would also put you at odds with the alliance. All of the countries I mentioned have met requirements for NATO.

What an utterly profound statement! Obviously, you can make the above statement because you are an expert on geopolitical affairs as well as an expert on Swiss history, politics, and the reasons behind Switzerland's historic neutrality, correct? By the way, being a 16 year old, how many wars have you fought? Being faced with a war, are you 100% certain that you will be on the front line fighting or will you cower in a corner somewhere?

Bravado and machismo are great when you're hiding behind your computer screen but, I have found that it is always ones actions in the real world that carry the greatest resonance. Until you become a little more educated and until you read up a little bit on Swiss history I'd advise against posting uneducated, ignorant, and completely baseless statements.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 2:26 pm

During WW2 my family were merchants in Poland. When the war was starting my whole family broke up. Some went to America and some went to Russia and all of our money and some family members were lost to Germany and guess were the Germans hid the Money...Switzerland. Billions of Jewish dollars were stolen by the Germans and Swiss. Some neutrality.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 2:31 pm

During WW2, my grandparents both fought for Poland. One was a member of the Polish Army even before the start of the armed conflict. Both had to work in the underground to liberate their homeland. Both suffered from Communist oppression at the hands of the Russians. Both even fought the Russians at the beginning of the war. Russia deserves NO credit for winning WW2.

So don't give me a sob story about your family! My dad was F*ing kicked out of Poland for going against the communists! He lived in Austria for 6 months before deciding to come the US under asylum. He is now a US citizen.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:03 pm

My grandfather was in the polish army and later joined the Soviet Army. What city is your family from? Mine is from Krakow
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:07 pm

And I was just trying to explain why i don't like the Swiss and why I hold a grudge against them
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 4:15 pm

Ok, great, another thread to add to the list of Anti-European rants..

BTW, the people here bitching about certain European nations being cowards for not joining NATO, what is your opinion on a joint EU defence force?

Staffan
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 4:28 pm

HELP me, I get crazy by Boeing in pdx statements...!

How the hell can you make such statements and talking about something you don't know about. I would guess that you have never been in Switzerland but you just don't like it. To dislike something you need to give better reasons than the once you just posted like your PRO Saddam s.h.i.t and that we have stolen money from Jewish families. If you would know something about history you would know that Switzerland was surrounded by Nazis (Germany in the NORTH, France, Italy and Austria you forgot) and how should people survive during more than 10 years without any contacts out, don't you think people needed to trade for some bloody food? Don't think that Switzerland was a rich country at this time, there have been plenty of poor people. Jewish people deposited their money on Swiss Bank Accounts and due to well known reason they have not been able to take it back. To blame this on Switzerland is not only wrong, it is STUPID.
Just btw: there have been American Bombers thinking they are over Stuttgart and the hit the Swiss city of Schaffhausen iso.

Boeing in pdx, better talk about things you know about. You might tell us how proud you are about the USA etc but if a stupid guy like you tries to blame everything out of the USA without knowing what he is talking about it gets funny...!
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 4:38 pm

Boeing in pdx, I just forgot it. If you bloody fool guy are talking about "stolen " Money of Jewish people, what do you think about the land of the American Indians, where has it gone to? That's stolen!

I always like to tell this one:
I visited several times a country which is the most heavily bombed country on earth, a poor record btw. It happened during Vietnam war, NO, not Vietnam. The country has the size of UK and a population of around 4 millions. The USA have never officially had war over there, they only traded dope against weapons.
During 9 years an average of EVERY 8 min one FULL B52 load which has been dropped over LAOS. This has been 30 years ago and each year more than 100 people get killed and each days children get hurt by UXO lying around. Until today the USA never claimed that there was any military action in Laos and they didn't pay one cent at all!

Are this your f**ing balls to stand up for anything?
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 4:41 pm

Staffan
It is always great to see Belgians and Swiss to have the same opinion  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



To have good friends is much more important than to have good enemies ...
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:18 pm

What Switzerland did gain from freezing the accounts after WW2 was nothing compared to the price they paid for their neutrality. The unofficial numbers are in the ballpark or 22 Billion dollars. Not to mention Dead swiss civilians due to american and brittish bombs in Basel and Schaffhausen.

Next point: You seem to be claiming that Switzerland was more pro-nazi during the WW2. Not true. I will let you know that Switzerland did attack german bombers, fighters and transports which enterd swiss airspace, and they did shoot some down aswel. Switzerland was in an unimaginable situation. They were there knowing that any second (literaly as my family is from Basel on the German border) a german attack could come.

Neutrality is a good thing, a thing which more countries should practice. It would most certainly keep us out of some of the wars there have been in the past few decades.

Patrick
San Francisco
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 5:42 pm

I'm sorry your family had to worry about attack when mine and B4E's families were either refugees in a CC or fighting on the front lines. Both of my grandfathers and many great uncles were present in some of the wars biggest battles.

B4E, Just because I am a democrat doesn't mean I am against the nation. The great thing about America is being able to have a different point of view. I am sure we both love America and it's freedom. I don't think we should be enemies.
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:01 pm

ILOVEA340
It is always good to get a proof that there also people living in the USA with some knowledge about that what they are talking about.

Boeing in pdx
You should shame you self what you wrote about a nation you don't know anything about. If I'm going to blame something on someone always with a reason and knowing what I'm talking about!
Your statements about Europe and Switzerland have not only been stupid, I would call them false and not correct at all. Guess you are thinking that your nations is a perfect one and only others have done errors, seems to be very typical and this makes me sad ...

Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 7:57 pm

When have I said America is perfect? And you obviously do not know ww2 history. The Swiss did consort with Nazi Germany. They held finances for Hitler and turned over Jews to him! Do you think your countries are perfect.
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 8:39 pm

THE TRUTH, if you want to hear it, is that the war would NOT have been won without the United States pouring in arms and troops during World War II.

Do you want to hear the TRUTH? The war would probably not have been won without the efforts from the French and British either. It was very fortunate that the allies together were strong enough to win.

Staffan
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:43 pm

Boeing in pdx
I tried to explain you the reason before but you where not able to understand them at all so I try it once again, read it and try to understand it:

That Switzerland held finances for Hitler is WRONG! Just to note that I think it is funny that you try to explain me the history of my country (you most probably have never been to Switzerland nor Europe).
I explained you before the Swiss situation during WWII, you can read about in books, magazines and my grand-parents told me also plenty of different stories. This time it wasn't easy at all and Switzerland's Industry was nearly not existing anymore and the only business was trading with surrounding countries. As I said before, France, Austria, Italy and Germany, Nazis around. So what should we have done else than trade with them to get at least some food and a possibility to survive? We didn't support the Nazis like you blame it on us at all and as ILOVEA340 explained we even shot German planes down which crossed the boarder. The Swiss army wouldn't have had a change against the Nazis but the Army was prepared for War against Germany.
To explain me that I don't know anything about WWII was a stupid move.

If you would be able to read you would have noticed that I didn't say that you said America is perfect, I said you just do as America would be perfect. If I blame something about a nation or what ever it's because I have a good reason, I'm well informed and in normal cases I have been there and I know what I'm talking about. This is obviously not the case with you.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:52 pm

Russia deserves NO credit for winning WW2.

Your views are understandably colored from your family's experiences with communism, but to say Russia deserves no credit for winning World War II is just not acceptable when you look at the facts. Russia fought the Nazi's, nearly by themselves, for 2-plus years. They suffered millions dead at the hands of the Nazis, and, when it looked like they were about to lose in October of 1941, they pull out 40 divisions of the Siberians and stave off defeat, and then fight them to a virtual standstill in 1942/1943. It wasn't until the invasion of Normandy in 1944 that Hitler's fate was sealed, to be sure, but had it not been for the dogged fighting of the Russians between 1941 and 1944, Germany would never have been defeated.

No one is saying that the Soviets were nice people-they weren't, but they did make a huge contribution to defeating a common foe during that bloody campaign.

Neutrality is a good thing, a thing which more countries should practice.

Yes, it's a great thing if you want all the benefits of peace and freedom without willing to once in a while fight for those things-and let others do the fighting and dying for you. Peachy.

The war would probably not have been won without the efforts from the French and British either.

There is no doubt that the resolve of the U.K. in 1940/41 was one of the keys to winning the war, and that cannot be argued by anyone with any knowledge of the conflict. My point wasn't that, but to make it sound like the role of the U.S. was a minor afterthought is just ridiculous to the extreme. And this is not meant to start a flame war, but just my view on the history of the war, but I don't think France was a lynchpin in defeating Hitler. They lost their role in the fighting in 6 weeks, and didn't get their country back until the Allies invaded Normandy in 1944.
 
GDB
Posts: 12679
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 2:50 am

It wasn't only Europeans who were pro-Hitler. Lindbergh, Henry Ford (wrote a sort of proto Mein Kampf in the 1920's), Joe Kennedy (when Hitler looked like winning).
Boeing in Pdx, a recent opinion poll has shown most Americans being pretty gung-ho about attacking Iraq, 2 out of every 3 asked. But ask the question if you would still support action if it meant substantial US casualties, guess what? The numbers are reversed.
So calling a nation cowards, because they maintain heavily-armed neutrality, is silly, sillier still if those polling figures are right.
Hitler planned to subjugate the Swiss, but the terrain and heavily armed neutrality made it look a costly proposition, and ultimately too much of a distraction.
And yes it was Russian troops who broke the back of the German Army, and fought all the way to Berlin in a costly slaughter, it wasn't Tom Hanks or Ben Affleck who planted the victors flag on the Reichstag, though I bet Hollywood are working on that!
All the allies had their part to play, but imagine landing in Normandy without a sizable chunk of the enemy fighting (retreating as it happens) on the Eastern Front.
Back to topic, should NATO expand, well if nations have a desire to join why not?
However, recent former Eastern Bloc nations joining, or preparing to join, have found getting equipment and training up top NATO standards costly.
 
DPrush
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 8:11 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 3:11 am

Just thought I'd flame the fire some more...Russians served as a main deterrent to Germans winninng the war, by letting the German War Machine (very capable one) blindly slaughter millions of people. While Russians were serving as the human shield on the East Front, Americans rightly bombed the living hell out of the Axis, including Japan. Thus, American technological might, combined with Russian heroism and disregard for human life in times of conflict, the war was won. What else? Swiss are still heartless cowards, and should just stick to making watches. Morocco in NATO? Keep dreaming...Maybe when the last muslim is driven out
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 3:32 am

Alpha one, i have to agree with your statements regarding World War two but i do not accept that it could only be won with the americans and i also disagree regarding the turning point of the war.

The turning point of the war was the seiges in russia, if hitler hadnt invaded russia, he would have been in a far stronger postion, it was because he was fighting a war on more than one front that he lost. When he attacked russia, stalin was told to leave moscow by his party, he stayed, much as im loathed to back stalin, it was this decision that inspired the russian troops, once the germans were pushed back that was it, the war would be over.

The war wouldnt have started if russia hadnt had signed a pact with nazi germany, hitler wouldnt have invaded poland knowing that stalin would hit the roof and attack him.Once the pact was signed, hitler could turn his attentions to france, which i have to say offered a very poor performace.

France in the war as no use to any one, vichy france collaborated with the nazis and even attacked british troops in the middle east.I have no doubt that under different circumstances france would have been crushed by the british.

America was already in the war before pearl harbour, the lend lease attacks were simply a cover while the uk and us joined in alliance. Though funds were given to chinese rebels, the americans knew that an alliance with the uk was their best hope.

Its very good speculating and assuming, historians love nothing better than what if ? questions, yet i feel it is fair to say that britain and russia could have defeated nazi germany, i also think its wrong to assume that britain would have caved in,it may have done if edward and mrs simpson were on the throne, but it wouldnt have signed any deal with the nazis, it still had the commonwealth to rely on.

anyway, finally onto nato expansion, the swiss have only just joined the un, they wouldnt join nato.Austria is unlikely to join, its had to cancel an order to upgrade its air force with 24 eurofighter jets due to the flooding. Countries under former russian influence may join if russia feels it doesnt affect it too much(eg poland), however the baltic states are another matter, various russian generals have addressed the duma in the past saying nato membership for them would be the straw that broke the camels back. Unless russia had a gurantee it could join nato after completing a process, it wouldnt allow it.

it would stir russian nationalism and giving nato status to countries that cant offer much, except for upsetting the russias doesnt strike me as sensible military planning....

im just waiting for the day france quits nato.

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
VC-10
Posts: 3546
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 7:34 am

Boeing in pdx

America has fought and won all declared ones - err.... Vietnam ?
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 8:03 am

err.... Vietnam ?

err, Vietnam wasn't a declared war. We entered as a resulf of a resolution...The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution to be exact.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 8:07 am

I agree that Vietnam was not declared but that is no excuse to not call it a war and say since it wasn't a war no one lost.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3546
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 8:13 am

Vietnam wasn't a war. I think that is playing with semantics.

Anyway we are going off topic
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 9:12 am

If that muppet in Washington can justify calling revenge a "War on Terrorism", don't go trying to say that Vietnam was not a war.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 12:26 pm

The turning point of the war was the seiges in russia..

Indeed a turning point. But one of many: Midway, Stalingrad, The Bulge, along with Normandy were all turning points of one scale or another. But the truth is that had the U.S. NOT entered the war, Russia probably would have gone back and forth for years with the Nazis till one of them collapsed. It still may have been Germany, but we'll never know.

Without the fresh insertion of millions of fresh troops, and the influx of mind-boggling amounts of ammo, tanks, artillary pieces and aircraft from the U.S., the Nazi's could have left all their troop in the east to slug it out with Uncle Joe and his Reds.

No, despite the heroic and incredible resistance put up by the Russians, it was, in my view, the entry of the U.S. that was THE turning point of the war. That's not blowing our own horn, but our industrial might, being untouched by any foe, guaranteed the Allies a victory.

If that muppet in Washington

If he's a muppet, Avitsiaya, then I shudder to think what that makes you. Once again, with nothing valuable to say, you just stoop to mindless one-liners.
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 4:34 pm

Give me an F-ing reason as to why Vietnam was not a war. Even in the American written history books it gets placed in the stats List of "US Wars".
It was a conflict in which two sides were shooting at eachother (I'm trying to be basic I know there is a lot more to it). What else is it? A police Action? no way. There were american troops there for over a decade fighting (SHOOTING) at the viet cong (the ENEMY). Please tell me how this is not a war.
 
Guest

RE: Nato Expansion

Sat Aug 17, 2002 5:40 pm

I was not declared and that makes it not a war.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos