f.pier
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Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:36 pm

How are them now? Do Jewish people still "remember" those facts?

I think that now people are much different, the most of the people survived in the 40s now are dead (either Jewises or Germans) and their sons and nephews cannot feel the same.
 
manni
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:34 pm

Hmm, relation between jewish and Germans?
I know quiet a few people who are both, Jewish and German.
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NZ767
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:44 pm

....and they've probably got relations who are Jewish and German!  Smile
 
L-188
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:03 pm

I am sure that they work in the normal way.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:38 pm

The jewish Germans I know get along fine with the non-jewish Germans - our generation doesn´t care that much about one´s religion.

There are obviously not that many Jews living in Germany any more, so many non-Jews don´t know any Jews - or on some occasions one doesn´t even know one´s counterpart´s religion.

Daniel Smile
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:49 pm

The children of holocaust victims ceratainly have not "forgotten" what the Germans did to their parents. But most, if not all recognize that today's Germans are not the ones responsible and do not harbor ill will against them, at least not visibly.

The new generation of Germans have acted rather honorably, by providing compensation and expressions of regret. Other notable nations, which either committed atrocities or were accomplices, have not yet "come clean" in this manner.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
go canada!
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:52 pm

"their sons and nephews cannot feel the same"

As far as im aware, jews do not recongise that todays germans are to blame for the past.The jewish people are so scared by the holocaust that they cannot never forget what happened to them with hundreds of years of anti-semitism in europe. but the jews do feel the same guilt that they didnt rise up(except isolated cases), they do feel the same hurt, pain and they wont forget.

jewishes??????????
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
manni
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:57 pm

Providing compensation?

Delta flyer,

"Today's Germans are not the ones responsible"... are your words. So why should todays Germany and other notable nations, provide compensation?
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blink182
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:20 am

I for one don't think of the Holocaust when I think of Germans, heck, I take German in school!

However, I have been a little testy when it comes to actually going to Germany as I know some of the tourist sights are probably Concentration Camps and even after seeing enough Holocaust videos, I am not sure visiting a camp would be good for me at my age. My family wasn't directly affected at all and I am by no means religious, but I think it would be tough for me to go to a Concentration Camp.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
go canada!
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:58 am

Regarding the camps, even if you have studied the holocaust i dont think you reallt get the full feel until you visit the camps.Its like visiting the WW1 battlefields only worse. It is an advantage though if you want to study history, a book can only tell you soo much. If you have an interest when your older, watch the film shoah, its on for about nine hours, its interviews with survivors and far better than schilders list.

Manni, how typical of you, while todays germans arent to blame for what happened, it is part of their national consiousness. When your country does something wrong you still apologise and then try and move on, jews arent demanding that germany apologises every week. They have done enough but you really need to read up abit if you a navie to think that no country shiuld ever apologise nor give compensation for its past actions. Admittin guilt helps things to move on.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
manni
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:37 am

Go canada,

How typical of you, telling me what I should think. I've been living for a 1.5 in Israel. I know what I'am talking about. How about you, where did you get your knowledge of, other than the net. Admitting guilt is one thing, but paying compensation? Why? You tell me how money heals wounds. Or is it all greed?
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go canada!
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:44 am

no, but how typical of u to accuse the jews of being greedy. As for my knowledge, well i study history and have taken options bith regarding the holocaust and regarding israel and the jews in general, read my profile.

You inferred earlier that the germans shouldnt admit guilt and apologise, financial compensation wont bring a life back but its wrong not to compensate people in every way you can. Remember the nazis stole jewish gold and seized their assets, the jews should get it back.

"I've been living for a 1.5 in Israel", funny it says you live in belguim in your profile.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
manni
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 2:05 am

Sure I live in Belgium. That's why I wrote "I've been living". Dont respond to quick next time, read it twice.

Also, I did not infer earlier that the Germans shouldn't admit guilt. I said ... "why should todays Germans provide compensation?"
Again, read twice , than respond. instead of putting false quotes in my mouth.
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Guest

RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 2:07 am

Admitting guilt is one thing, but paying compensation? Why? You tell me how money heals wounds. Or is it all greed?

And why are you so "surprised"??

- Paying compensations has nothing extraordinary; it's an established procedure in any judicial system...

- Germany had confiscated the goods and money of millions of Jews over the whole continent; hundreds of thousands people had lost their whole family in the Holocaust, had nowhere to live, and no money to live.

- The centuries-old Jewish culture in Europe had been wiped out, millions of innocent human beings systematically deported and annihilated; To pay compensations to the survivors and to the Jewish people collectively was, if one could say, the "least" to do.



By adding these last words "Or is it all greed?"...I fear you're just giving us the keys of the answer...
 
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yyz717
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:52 am

Germany & Israel enjoy cordial diplomatic relations and strong trade & tourism, as befits 2 modern Western nations.

They have seemingly put the past behind them, from a diplomatic & economic standpoint.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 4:31 am

which is by all acounts a terrific scenario.
 
Guest

RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 4:32 am

i've been meaing to ask but what is "jewishes"???

maybe he means "jews"
 
9V-SPF
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:29 am

@Manni: I think you should have said "I lived there for..." in that case. "I´ve been living..." would mean that you still live there. That´s probably what Go Canada! meant, but hey, don´t be too bitchy if one makes a little mistake trying to express his opinion in a language that is not his native one.

As for the relationship between germans and people from Israel, I think that political sensibility and of course time were good healers of the wounds that have been caused about 50 years ago.
Though we may never forget, the best we can do is to keep on accepting and respecting other people´s thoughts if they do no harm to us. Jewish and christian people don´t do harm to each other and I currently cannot see anything which should disturb the good relationship we have to Israel and the jewish people nowadays.

Daniel
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:55 am

Manni,

The compensation is a done deal. But here is why they should (and in fact did) pay....because the German government still exists as an entity and the survivors of the victims are still alive, and the specific wrongs that were committed are identifiable.

Here is why the the Swiss banks, insurance companies and other German and Swiss corporations will continue to pay ... because they had contractual obligations with Jews which they failed to meet in some cases, and in other cases they illegally employed Jews without paying salaries. And they refused to even consider this travesty until the last decade, when the US threatened lawsuits.

Example...my mother's father had a life insurance contract for US$1000 with a Swiss insurance company. My mother remembers, as a child, paying the premium to the agent in Budapest. Her father was taken to work camp in 1941 or 42 in Russia and he died there. The insurance company never paid.

Damn right I want my mother to be compansated!!! It's not greed -- whetever I inherit, I will donate to charity. But I want my mother to have what is due to her, and for her to live her retirement more comfortably. What would a $1000 in 1942 be worth today? At 5% return per year, how about $18,000!! Why do you think the Swiss already agreed to settle for billions of dollars?

Taking property away from people and not honoring contractual obligations are very good reasons for compensation.
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
ly772
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:55 am

I haven't forgotten.
 
janne
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 6:20 am

I think relationships between jewish(es) and germans are much better
nowadays than 60 years ago. Most jews that were harassed and killed
in those days were in fact jews AND germans. And I agree with a former
speaker that todays young germans don't inherit the guilt of their fathers
but the German Reich should do whatever they can to help the victims
of their forefathers guilt. Even if they are not strictly legally accountable.



 
blink182
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 6:51 am

I don't know for sure, but aren't there VERY strict laws in Germany now about Anti-Semitism? I heard that a person can be fined 1000 Euros for drawing a Swastica etc. Does anybody know the laws and consequences?

thanks,
blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
aio86
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 4:37 pm

I believe that there are mixed feelings from Jews about Germans.

Many understand that the Germans of today are not Nazis and are not responsible for the atrocitites commited 60 years ago. However other Jews still treat Germany with unease. My father for example, is against giving money to any Germany companies. He would never dream of buying a Germany car, and will not buy a ticket on a German airline (althogh he did get a reward seat on a LH flight with UA miles). I understand his mentality though I myself do not agree with it. German companies such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW and VW did use Jews as slaves to produce vehicles in the '30s and '40s. The same families that practiced this 60+ years ago still are owners of the companies.

So you'd think that if anyone would be anti-German, it'd be the Israelies, right? Wrong. If you go to Tel Aviv, all the taxis and many cars are Mercedes-Benz. Definately a sign that the majority of Jews have understood that today's German is not a Nazi of the 1930s and 40s. I think more Jews are scared of France, maybe countries in Latin America like Paraguay with lots of Nazis, not Germany.

By the way someone said that most of the Jews that died in WWII weren't German, although like .5 MIllion were, which is deffinately a lot. It's small compared to the almost 2.5 million Polish Jews and the large number of Russian Jews.

That's all for now. I'd be interested to hear more from some Israelies.

Hasta la vista,
AIO86
 
Guest

RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 4:47 pm

aio86, actually those benz israeli taxis were given to israel by german as compensation for the holocaust.

germany and israel have developed a strong relationship because of simple strategy. the countries are similar, western orientated liberal democracies, with advanced economies, high tech industry, and intelectual and internation diologue.

tnnh
 
manni
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Sun Sep 01, 2002 9:58 pm

Joke of the day,

The countries are similar, western orientated LIBERAL DEMOCRACIES, with advanced economies, high tech industry, and INTELECTUAL and international DIALOGUE.  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts (about Germany and Israel).
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go canada!
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Mon Sep 02, 2002 12:14 am

yes manni, my little anti-israeli friend, both are democracies and bothhave international dialogue, israel offered to come to the last arab league summit to talk, israel also has meetings with the palestinians. The countries that israel wont have relations with are iraq, iran, syria etc.Countries that threatern it in some way or form, those countries wont have anything to do with israel either.Its on both sides, arab nations wont talk to israel, israel wont talk to them.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
manni
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Mon Sep 02, 2002 12:20 am

So... their international dialogue is crap, as is the international dialogue from some neighbouring Arab nations.

Funny, why you call me anti-Israelli. It's true that I do not get carried away by the anti-arab propaganda mainly promoted by the US media, wich is, as we all now, nearly, if not, entirely in hands of Jews. That, however does not make me an anti-Israelli. I face the facts like they are, without any bias, unlike many others. It's up to you, to accept this. If you can't, well, that's not my problem.

BTW, I'm 1.87M, that's, by Belgian standards, not little. Big grin
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delta-flyer
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:15 am

BTW, I'm 1.87M, that's, by Belgian standards, not little. 

Manni, you guys need to stop opening doors like this ... I just can't resist walking into comments like this ....

I do not believe that height was Go_Canada's measure when he called you "little". And your reply sort of validated his assessment.

No offense intended
Pete  Smile
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Trvlr
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:22 am

Manni: That's not a nice thing to say about Germany. tsk.

the US media, wich is, as we all now, nearly, if not, entirely in hands of Jews.
Ummm...right. Do you mean Jews like Ted Turner who has actually been quite critical of Israel?

Talk about facing the facts as they are.

Aaron G.
 
AC320
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:43 am

Tonight on CNN: Why AC320 is the best member of Airliners.net ever.

The day you see that headline, is the only time the BS that Jews control the media will ever be proven true
fuddle duddle
 
NoUFO
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:56 am

Manni: "Today's Germans are not the ones responsible"... are your words. So why should todays Germany and other notable nations, provide compensation?

Ahem ... it is our country, so it is our history, O.K.? it is not only Schubert, Goethe and Einstein - it is Hitler, Goering and Himmler, too.

Although compensation for crimes committed by the Nazi regime began in 1949, the year after the Federal Republic of Germany was founded, it is no surprise that payments and services have always been coded in a long-term program.
The GDR on the other hand (and to my knowledge) never provided compensation, so after the reunification the German government partially extended the program.

Another point: Compensation was a high priority for any government of western Germany - but not for major parts of the german industry, which is a shame. Serious public and governmental pressure was needed to make them pay.

Hope it helps. That said: stupid question ...

Regards,
NoUFO
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manni
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:58 am

Trvlr,

You mean comparing Germany with Israel?

Delta-flyer,

Whatever  Insane
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airsicknessbag
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RE: Blink182

Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:05 pm

>>>I don't know for sure, but aren't there VERY strict laws in Germany now about Anti-Semitism? I heard that a person can be fined 1000 Euros for drawing a Swastica etc. Does anybody know the laws and consequences?

Far better: there are two provisions in the German Penal Code which are applicable if someone draws a Swastika:

- "incitation to hatred" - it´s always a little tricky to argue why drawing a Swastika falls under that provision, but it usually works. Punishable by prison (3 months - 5 years). § 130 I, II StGB.

- "using signs or marks of anti-constitutional organisations" - that one´s spot on, it was specifically created for situations in which you can´t prove an "incitation to hatred". Punishable by a fine or prison (up to 3 years). § 86a StGB.

It is also forbidden to say the holocaust didn´t happen (so-called "Auschwitz-lie"). It´s one case of incitation to hatred which is specifically mentioned in the law itself. Punishable by a fine or prison (up to 5 years). § 130 III StGB.

Daniel Smile
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:17 am

Daniel, I must say again, with all sincerity, that the Germans of post WW2 have acted honorably and have done all the right things to mitigate their nation's past. My hat's off to the Germans.  Big thumbs up

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
SophieMaltese
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RE: Relationships Between Jewishes And Germans

Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:02 pm

I am mostly German and have a German first name. I went to a predominantly Jewish school growing up. It was never an issue

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