Alpha 1
Topic Author
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More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:24 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&ncid=716&e=3&u=/ap/20020831/ap_on_re_eu/attacks_germany_2

Speaks for itself, I think. Shows once again how soft Europe is becoming on the fight against terrorism, or in helping an ally. God forbid the U.S. should execute a man who may have helped commit mass murder, right?
 
delta-flyer
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally&quo

Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:35 pm

A letter explaining the long-standing German position (on the death penalty) had been sent to U.S. authorities ....

Long-standing, eh? My mother remembers a time when the German position on the death penalty was somewhat - ahem - different.

Sorry, just couldn't resist. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:38 pm

The Germans whine about Dresden...well what about Warsaw!?

Some ally. They must still be pissed at the fact that their "1000 year reich" was nothing but a pipe dream!

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
We're Nuts
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:39 pm

Restraint is needed now more than ever before. The last thing humanity needs is for the US to go kill-crazy.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:41 pm

Restraint is needed now more than ever before. The last thing humanity needs is for the US to go kill-crazy.

This is true. That is why the evidence is demanded. Wouldn't it be saner for Germany to provide evidence that might actually clear this man?

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
We're Nuts
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:02 pm

Perhaps, but is that evidence even needed? As I understood it, Moussaoui was guilty before the trial even started. And he certainly hasn't been helping himself lately.

On a related note, I think those comments about Germany's unfortunate past are uncalled for. The Germany of 1939 is not the same as the Germany of 2002, they just share a name.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:34 pm

Perhaps, but is that evidence even needed? As I understood it, Moussaoui was guilty before the trial even started. And he certainly hasn't been helping himself lately.

Nevertheless, even this terrorist pig has a right to a trial in which all evidence is presented. There is a chance that it might clear him (fat chance but his conviction will leave a reasonable doubt)

As for the Germany comments, I stick by them.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
NWA742
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:40 pm

Speaks for itself, I think. Shows once again how soft Europe is becoming on the fight against terrorism, or in helping an ally. God forbid the U.S. should execute a man who may have helped commit mass murder, right?

Took the words out of my mouth, literally, I almost said the exact same thing myself!  Big thumbs up



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
We're Nuts
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:55 pm

Think of it in terms of checks and balences. If Europe won't question us, who will? A true ally will tell you when they think you are wrong; only a slutty ally agrees with you 100% of the time.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 2:11 pm

A true ally will tell you when they think you are wrong; only a slutty ally agrees with you 100% of the time.

A true ally will back you after 3000 of your people have been murdered, and one of the people who may have been behind it may face the death penalty, instead of piously hiding behind their own fears.
 
flyboy36y
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 2:20 pm

A true ally will back you after 3000 of your people have been murdered, and one of the people who may have been behind it may face the death penalty, instead of piously hiding behind their own fears.

Abosolutley... but I don' think the US really needs this evidence to cnvict and execute him...
 
Guest

RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:14 pm

This has been covered 100 times before.

Fully support Germany and its stand against extraditing people who may face the death penalty.

The Yanks can always guarantee this person won't face the death penalty, and then watch the guy be extradited with no qualms.

And Alpha 1...talk of screwing over allies, care to ask some of my family, or many of the other farmers down here who are buttfucked everyday by Yankee allies???
 
We're Nuts
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:22 pm

A true ally will back you after 3000 of your people have been murdered

So... if we wanted to kill all first born males in the world, you would expect Germany to support us, because of the terrorist attacks? Where exactly do we draw the line in Alpha 1-world?


who are buttfucked everyday by Yankee allies???

Well, I never thought I'd hear you say that in a derogatory way!  Laugh out loud
Dear moderators: No.
 
Guest

RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:25 pm

There's a first time for everything Nutsy  Wink/being sarcastic
 
flyboy36y
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:45 pm

The Yanks can always guarantee this person won't face the death penalty, and then watch the guy be extradited with no qualms.

Umm, hate to break it to you... we already have the guy in US custody. All we wanted was a bit of evidence. Oh, and I think he deserved the death penalty. I think Europe's morals would differ greatl today if not for the fear Hitler left them with... the fear of a reapeat.
 
Guest

RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:50 pm

Well I support Germany in not handing over any evidence.

Hitler didn't leave Europe with the fear of a repeat, but the morality in the respect of human life, no matter what the circumstances.

Anyways guys, sorry to interrupt. Keep on bitching.
 
Guest

RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 4:28 pm

Attention, Europe: America is now fighting for its freedom — the same battle we have aided Europe and Germany in for years — and when we are fighting for our freedom there is only one thing for Germany to say: How can we help? Period.

tnnh
 
GDB
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:18 pm

Germany offered 4000 mountain warfare troops for Afghanistan, which the US chose not to use, apart from a few special ops and support personnel.
(Better to use those oh so reliable Afghan fighters).
No question on their anti-terrorist credentials.
Anyway, this guy being locked up for life in a US prison is far more punishment than execution, he was supposed to be the 20th highjacker remember.

 
GDB
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:28 pm

Germany recently arrested what is thought to be a leading light in the planning of 11th September.
Which the US has not managed to do in Afghanistan, while the camps there needed to be taken out fighting terrorism is largely an intelligence/police operation.
 
Hepkat
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:40 pm

All states in the EU have laws forbidding capital punishment, extraditing a fugitive who might face capital punishment or assisting in capital punishment in any way. That's the fact and nothing anyone do can change this law. The U.S. has its laws, the EU has theirs. You can't expect the EU to change their laws at the United States' pleasure.

That comment about Germany was completely uncalled for. Germany today is not the same Germany of yesterday. It is one of the most civilized countries I've ever visited, ruled by law and order. You can't continue to hold Germans of today responsible for what happened over 60 years ago. To me, that's resorting to cheap shots out of a lack of anything substantial to back up accusations.

The US will simply have to accept and respect Germany's laws, just as it demands other countries to respect its.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:49 pm

Attention, Europe: America is now fighting for its freedom

Yeah, I can almost see the Afghan transports on the horizon.  Insane


Anyway, this guy being locked up for life in a US prison is far more punishment than execution

Yes, I agree. Life in prison is a much worse punishment.


You can't continue to hold Germans of today responsible for what happened over 60 years ago.

Kind of like blaming Italy for Rome's persecution of the Christians, huh?

See, it's just as stupid when you guys say it.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Guest

RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:54 pm

Just to let you know one more point, it is against German law to hand over the information when there is a high risk of the guy getting the death penalty.
So that might explain something here.
 
Guest

RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 6:49 pm

The death penalty is one of the most emotive issues in the world, no truly religious person can justify support of the death penalty, particularly during issues where emotion appears to overrule intelligence.

They have every right to ask this question and America has every right to decline.




VH-ADG
 
IndianGuy
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 7:02 pm

U're right Alpha! These germans ought to show u guys some gratitude no? After all U liberated them from those *evil* Nazi's right?

Europe should really learn to kiss American butt more often. How can they forget the enormous help America provided in WW2? If it werent for you....!

Just my 2 cents.

Roy.
 
avion
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 9:00 pm

Hepkat sait it perfectly. The german constitution fordbids the death penalty or extradition of suspects who might face the death penalty. They have to act according to their laws and you really can not expect to change the law just for the US. Would the US do that? I really dont think so.

Tom
 
L-188
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Sun Sep 01, 2002 9:02 pm

no truly religious person can justify support of the death penalty

Are you sure about that, I could have sworn I read something about an Eye for and Eye in the bible.

Besides lets face it, Jesus himself was executed.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
go canada!
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 12:19 am

"BERLIN (AP) - Germany has told the United States it will withhold evidence against Sept. 11 conspiracy defendant Zacarias Moussaoui unless it receives assurances that the material won't be used to secure a death penalty against him, Germany's justice minister said in remarks released Saturday.

Investigators suspect Moussaoui, who is awaiting trial in Virginia on charges of conspiracy to commit terrorism and murder federal employees, was training to become the pilot of one of the airliners hijacked for the attacks when he was arrested. "

Germany may not have the death penalty but its being hypocritical and enthocentric to complain regarding american policy. The eu is one of the first to get funny if the usa gets involved in another countries affairs but they seem to try and do the same thing.

Germany cannot withhold information regarding the war on terror, otherwsie its shooting itself in the foot, nothing will change american justice policy apart from the americans.

i understand why germany, and the eu, including the uk doesnt have the death penalty but its upto america to try someone who killed its citizens.

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Alpha 1
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 12:52 am

The Yanks can always guarantee this person won't face the death penalty, and then watch the guy be extradited with no qualms.

Ah, I see-just let Germany and the EU dictate OUR laws to us to make themselves feel better about themselves? Right, Avitsiya. Germany can stick it up their butt, and see if they get help next time they're up the creek without a paddle.

Hitler didn't leave Europe with the fear of a repeat, but the morality in the respect of human life, no matter what the circumstances.

If you blindly follow ANYTHING-"no matter what the circumstances", you'll be in for a world of hurt someday.

Anyway, this guy being locked up for life in a US prison is far more punishment than execution, he was supposed to be the 20th highjacker remember.

So, the fact that he was supposed to assist in the deaths of thousands, doesn't mean squat? That's such Utiopian thinking. I'm not for the death penalty in many cases, but in this case, he should be executed.

Germany recently arrested what is thought to be a leading light in the planning of 11th September.
Which the US has not managed to do in Afghanistan


Right-that's why the US is holding one of the top 3 commanders of Al Qaeda in a secret location, and is interrogating him daily. http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/USAToday/

That comment about Germany was completely uncalled for.

Yeah, it's worse than calling someone "Christkiller", eh, Hepkat?

U're right Alpha! These germans ought to show u guys some gratitude no? After all U liberated them from those *evil* Nazi's right?

Europe should really learn to kiss American butt more often. How can they forget the enormous help America provided in WW2? If it werent for you....!


No one is asking them to kiss ass, Roy, but if you're inferring that the U.S. didn't have a gigantic role in throwing out the Nazi's, then I wonder what history books you're reading? If it weren't for the U.S., Britian and Canada, and other allied forces in WW II, with the way the war went in the east, the Iron Curtian may have extended to Calais, or, possibly, been under Nazi occupation for years.

Maybe I misunderstand you, but are you saying the US didn't play THE major role in freeing western Europe in WW II??
 
delta-flyer
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally&quo

Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:09 am

That comment about Germany was completely uncalled for.

I agree, but the irony in that statement was just too irresistable for me. If I were that German spokesman, I would have worded that statement differently.

I have said in other posts that I do not hold any ill will against the Germans of today, and that hasn't changed. But I also haven't forgotten the past.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Scorpio
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:07 am

Alpha 1,

Ah, I see-just let Germany and the EU dictate OUR laws to us to make themselves feel better about themselves?

You want the Europeans to accept and respect your laws, right? That's fair enough, I'd say. So you would then also agree that it is fair for you to do the same to our laws, right, i.e. respect them? Well, as so many have already said, there is a law in the EU that prohibits member nations to extradite people that might face capital punishment, or to help get people executed in any way. This case fall very clearly and undeniably under the latter. Now this is a LAW, and you sure don't want Germany to break its own laws now do you?

Germany can stick it up their butt, and see if they get help next time they're up the creek without a paddle.

Sometimes your comments are quite pathetic, really.

If you blindly follow ANYTHING-"no matter what the circumstances", you'll be in for a world of hurt someday.

Very wise words indeed. If you would only apply them yourself. After all, you want Germany to follow the US blindly in this, and just give the info, no questions asked, because of 9/11...

So, the fact that he was supposed to assist in the deaths of thousands, doesn't mean squat? That's such Utiopian thinking.

i think you misunderstood the line you GDB's words. Read it again: HE WANTS THIS PERSON PUNISHED TOO!!!!
 
delta-flyer
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally&quo

Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:26 am

Here's an interesting column by a liberal journalist about the abolition of the death penalty in Turkey, of all places!

In my opinion (and you'll have to read the column) it's better to have good croswalks to save the lives of thousands of innocent people than to get rid of the death penalty to save the lives of a few murderers!

http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?custid=67&catid=1041

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Scorpio
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:41 am

Delta-flyer,

In my opinion (and you'll have to read the column) it's better to have good croswalks to save the lives of thousands of innocent people than to get rid of the death penalty to save the lives of a few murderers!

I have to be honest in saying that I really don't see the connection between the two...
 
delta-flyer
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally&quo

Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:58 am

I have to be honest in saying that I really don't see the connection between the two...

Scorpio -- I assume you read the column?

I think she meant to say that Turkey is so progressive that they banned the death penalty, even though they have not yet fixed their crosswalks. The underlying message is that the US is, by comparison, very primitive. My point above was that I think our priorities are more logical.

You've got to realize that the author of the piece carries a lot of baggage .... she can't help it, though.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
racko
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 5:22 am

Delta-flyer, maybe we have learned out of our history ? Of course, you can end any discussion with/about Germany just with "YOU, you are the evil Nazis." But do you really think that this is suitable?

Death penalty is just unacceptable, because it is final. If someone innocent sat in prison for years, you stole him years of his life, yes - but he is still alive and can continue his life once his innocence is proven. If someone innocent is killed by the state, that is final. Murdered by the state.

Last monday, Eddie Joe Lloyd was released out of the prison after sitting in death row for 17 years. He was proven innocent by a DNS-Test. 110 prisoners who sat in death row waiting to get killed by the US of A were proven innocent by a DNS-test. 110 people who would have been MURDERED. I think you can imagine how many innocent people were murdered before DNS-tests were available or in cases where a DNS-test is not possible.

Germany, as all EU countries, will not help any country to penaltize anybody with a death penalty. Be it Turkey, be it a third-world country, or be it the USA.
 
777236ER
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 5:43 am

Simple rule of law. No one in the EU will extradite to a country where the death penalty will be used on the person. Comments like "My mother remembers a time when the German position on the death penalty was somewhat - ahem - different." and "Some ally. They must still be pissed at the fact that their "1000 year reich" was nothing but a pipe dream!" and "A true ally will back you after 3000 of your people have been murdered, and one of the people who may have been behind it may face the death penalty, instead of piously hiding behind their own fears." arent needed. I hope you realise that the UK employs the same policy?

It's the EU's beliefs that the death penalty shouldn't be used. Accept our beliefs.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
delta-flyer
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally&quo

Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:26 am

Racko...Of course, you can end any discussion with/about Germany just with "YOU, you are the evil Nazis." But do you really think that this is suitable?

I already answered that....here it is again...."I have said in other posts that I do not hold any ill will against the Germans of today, and that hasn't changed. But I also haven't forgotten the past."

777236ER....Comments like "My mother remembers a time when the German position on the death penalty was somewhat - ahem - different....arent needed.

Well, consider it a lagniappe  Smile

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
777236ER
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:30 am

In any case, its a bad taste. When LA cops beat a black kid senseless, how do you think comments like "Some people remember a time when the US treatment of blacks was ....ahem...different" would have been appreciated?
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STT757
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:32 am

Germany is obstructing US justice for it's on rightousness, I don't see how they're right.

The US is not a signor to the EU charter so don't apply the EU's laws to US criminial procedings, if Germany is withholding evidence then Germany is obstructing justice and in contempt of International law.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Scorpio
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:44 am

Germany is obstructing US justice for it's on rightousness, I don't see how they're right.

You don't see how they're right practising their own laws?

The US is not a signor to the EU charter so don't apply the EU's laws to US criminial procedings, if Germany is withholding evidence then Germany is obstructing justice and in contempt of International law.

Again (you really don't seem to get it, do you? It's been stated 10 times already): There is a LAW (L-A-W) in the EU prohibiting this.

Go Canada,

Germany cannot withhold information regarding the war on terror, otherwsie its shooting itself in the foot, nothing will change american justice policy apart from the americans.

And likewise, nothing will change European justice policy apart from the Europeans. And part of that policy is to NOT aide in getting someone sentenced to death. What part of that is it you guys don't seem to get?
 
delta-flyer
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally&quo

Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:50 am

777236ER.... When LA cops beat a black kid senseless, how do you think comments like "Some people remember a time when the US treatment of blacks was ....ahem...different" would have been appreciated?

I don't follow your analogy.....beating the kid would mean that nothing has changed.

In the quote from the article, I noted the irony that the Germans today are so sensitive to killing, and how much of a change that represents from 60 years ago. As far as bad taste, I admitted to that in an earlier post.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
777236ER
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:55 am

The irony in my example would be how America seems so concerned with the wellfair of a black kid considering the treatment of blacks earlier on in the country's history.

Obviously an uncalled for statement, just likes yours.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
ryanb741
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:07 am

Out of interest - who here would protest if Osama Bin Laden was sentenced to death?

Who here was protesting when the Northern Alliance were executing Taliban?

What about the Nazi War criminals at the end of WWII (Nuremberg Trials)? Who is still smarting about their executions?

What about the evil Romanian dictator Ceaucescu? Who still cries themselves to sleep each night about the injustice in having a mass murderer executed?


Does anyone think this anti-execution wailing just might have something to do with the fact that the US is involved?


I say - how's this for a solution. Why doesn't Germany simply say to itself 'This man is wanted on suspicion of murdering 3000 people - most of whom were Americans. There might just be the possibility that the Americans are a bit pissed about this. Maybe they are ANGRY about what happened last September and want justice. A-ha, so that's why they are wanting evidence against this guy. Oh - I get it!'

I assume if some maniac were to smash several airliners into the Munich skyline the Germans would obviously be pleading for the guilty parties to spend their time in a jail cell, with no possibility of parole for 10 years at least Nope - no animosity felt towards the people who did it - after all executing them would be totally immoral right? The Americans are just sooooo unreasonable to be all uptight about last September - after all it was all their fault, right?  Big grin


Jeez - hand the evidence over. And if anyone needs any help executing those guilty - here's one EU citizen who would be glad to lend a hand......
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
NoUFO
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally&quo

Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:09 am

Simple rule of law. No one in the EU will extradite to a country where the death penalty will be used on the person.

Again (you really don't seem to get it, do you? It's been stated 10 times already): There is a LAW (L-A-W) in the EU prohibiting this.


*NoUFO passes some bottles of beer to 777236ER and Scorpio*

Prost.
NoUFO
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galaxy5
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:10 am

right on RYAN im 100% with you
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
ryanb741
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:14 am

NoUFO - there is an EU law also that the French must accept UK beef but they don't. It is EU law that you mustn't drink and drive - but many people do it. Last time I checked - EU law prohibited murder. I think you get my point.....
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
We're Nuts
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:15 am

No terrorists should be killed. Let them spend their days in a US prison -- now THAT'S punishment.
Dear moderators: No.
 
NoUFO
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally&quo

Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:15 am

Ryanb741: I assume if some maniac were to smash several airliners into the Munich skyline the Germans would obviously be pleading for the guilty parties to spend their time in a jail cell, with no possibility of parole for 10 years at least Nope - no animosity felt towards the people who did it - after all executing them would be totally immoral right?

Right.

The Americans are just sooooo unreasonable to be all uptight about last September - after all it was all their fault, right?

Wrong.

Regards,
NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
NoUFO
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RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally&quo

Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:21 am

Ryanb741:
NoUFO - there is an EU law also that the French must accept UK beef but they don't. It is EU law that you mustn't drink and drive - but many people do it. Last time I checked - EU law prohibited murder. I think you get my point.....


Yes, but it doesn't make sense at all. Some people steal, so I have the "right" to steal, too - or what? Some people break rules - some don't. I'm with those who don't.

Regards,
NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:25 am

Rules, schmules. Surely there are some eventualities that current laws are inadequate to deal with. Like for example, the murder of over 3000 innocent people.....
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: More, Ahem, Cooperation From An "Ally"

Mon Sep 02, 2002 7:28 am

The issue here is NOT one of obstruction of justice. In order to prove that argument, you'd have to show that Germany is seeking to PREVENT justice from being carried out, which is clearly NOT the case. The main point of contention here is the issue of the application of the death penalty, and not whether this man should be punished or not. It's very important to differentiate between the two, and not mix them together to prove some type of anti-European agenda.

The Germans are just as interested in justice as the U.S., however their laws prevent them from aiding in a possible capital punishment case. Surely the German government must obey their own laws, just as the U.S. government must obey their laws, but neither has the right to force their laws on the other. If he were being given life in prison with no possibility of parole, then the Germans would be free to hand over as much evidence as the U.S. required. But as it is, the U.S. is expecting Germany to disregard their own laws for America's benefit by indirectly aiding the possible execution of a suspect. I'm sure you'll agree, that this goes against every accepted principle of a modern, civilized, democratic rule of law.

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