Guest

Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Tue Sep 10, 2002 12:35 pm

One of the major article on Newsweek's future prediction. This time is Colombia.

George W. Bush is expected to provide armed anti-terror battlion to Colombia later this year. However, by 2012, US will face the "2nd Vietnam" in Colombia.

Colombian Government will face isolations as the rebel group using most powerful armed force attacking Government site. Colombian rebel group, aka "terrorists" will kidnapping some consultants from US military, and eventually "carrying their dead bodies around". For those kidnapped, they'll be dissapeared in the Amazon Jungle.

Chaos will spread from Colombia to Peru, Ecuador, and Brasil, causing US to stuck in the mud like they did 25 years ago.

...Colombia itself begins to look like Somalia in the 1990s, “a state of outright warlordism,” as American professor Bruce Bagley once predicted. Narcoterrorists have not seized control of the state: Colombia still has an elected president, a standing Army. But America is in a new quagmire...

 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 704
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Tue Sep 10, 2002 2:13 pm

Any good history class will tell you the Central/South American countries are ripe with instability, and there is a history of the US going in and making changes to promote US interests. Ever listen to Bob Marley? Yep, some people don't like it, this time it's the "Columbian Rebels". Proposing "Chaos will spread ... to other S. American" countries" is a slippery slope argument with little justification. These types of wars are almost always contained in a small, local region/area.

-Sean


 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Tue Sep 10, 2002 4:35 pm

There's a small difference with Vietnam (or rather, several small differences).
- the majority of the population support the government.
- it's a lot closer to the US, making logistical support far easier
- the FARC don't have the full support of a neighbouring nation like the VC had the full support of North Vietnam (and was in fact an arm of the NVA).

There have been US troops in Colombia for a long time, mainly training and advising local forces at headquarters level and training facilities.
I think it's about time the US got more actively involved in destroying the operations of the druglords there, and IMO other countries should (if so invited) join the effort.
By destroying the coca plantations the problem is stopped at the source rather than having to be solved by cops picking up drugdealers in the streets all over the world and having to arrest the same addicts time after time for stealing in order to pay for cocaine.
I wish I were flying
 
Hepkat
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:53 pm

Good grief, just legalize the damn drugs and wipe those druglords out of business overnight!
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Tue Sep 10, 2002 9:31 pm

Yeah, legalization of drugs is the answer. Like we don't have enough problems with drunk drivers, pilots, ect., making access to drugs legal will only compound the problem, especially since the majority of people cannot learn to ration out such excesses. Just what I want to deal with, a coked up pilot, a stoned pilot or a pilot on acid (or a driver for that matter). Alcohol is enough to worry about.
 
EWRvirgin
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 11:38 am

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Tue Sep 10, 2002 10:22 pm

There's a small difference with Vietnam (or rather, several small differences).
- the majority of the population support the government.
- it's a lot closer to the US, making logistical support far easier
- the FARC don't have the full support of a neighbouring nation like the VC had the full support of North Vietnam (and was in fact an arm of the NVA).


None of those were reasons why Vietnam was a failure, especially logistics.

That entire campaign was fought half-assed. It was really limited by politics and politicians in Washington. "Graduated response" and doing the absolute minimum to avoid defeat is what doomed the US in Vietnam. At the war's height there were more than 500,000 troops in Vietnam and about 1.3 million servicemen in that part of the world but only 50,000-60,000 of those were actually put into combat. I don't think many people know that.

If that war had been left to the generals and not to a handful of preppy civilian advisors and three presidents to micro-manage then not only would Vietnam have been a success but it would have probably cost far fewer lives, especially for the Vietnamese.
 
Guest

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Wed Sep 11, 2002 12:02 am

There was another important factor in Vietnam: imagery.

Vietnam was the first time TV viewers were treated to the gritty reality of war, thanks to the development of satellite relays and portable cameras in the '60s. At the same time, the media began to lose its fear of elected officials, and was beginning to push the old limits on what it could put on air or print. In the '50s, there was no way the media would have printed a photo of screaming children running from a napalm attack or video of a man being executed in public. By the late '60s and early '70s, the media was willing to give it a try.

The imagery shocked the public, leaving many of them dispirited. This translated into lower political support for the war. Sensing that neither the public nor the politicians back home were resolutely behind them, the troops' morale began to suffer.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4443
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RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Wed Sep 11, 2002 1:19 am

Nicaragua. El Salvador. Panama. Now we add Columbia to another long littany of countries that are supposed to be our "next Viet Nam".

We've got 57,000 plus brave names on a black granite wall in DC that will scream at us forever that there will never be a "next Viet Nam". Whatever politics sent them there to die, their legacy will save the lives of countless young men(and women) who came after.....the message is your soldiers are your sons and daughters..... and you better have a goddamned good reason to send them off to die.

Loose Iraqi atom bombs smuggled into Los Angeles or Miami by terrorists may meet the criteria. A few kilos of coke doesnt.
 
srbmod
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Wed Sep 11, 2002 9:17 am

I hate to break to you, but Colombia will be our third (or fourth) Vietnam. We're currently in our second one right now (War on Terrorism/Afghanistan) and the military reports sound eerily like does during Vietnam. The third will be an Iraqi campaign. All I have to say is that I sure hope that all of these wars won't lead to a return of the draft (Not for my sake, I'll more than likely be out of the age range they would want draftees to be, 25 and under), because that would literally start a civil conflict in our on country.
 
Guest

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Wed Sep 11, 2002 11:20 am

Srbmod wrote: "All I have to say is that I sure hope that all of these wars won't lead to a return of the draft"

It's very unlikely, except as an act of desperation.

Put yourself in a politician's shoes. Say Politician X voted for a draft. Later, he finds out both his own son and several sons of big campaign contributors are being drafted. The donors want their sons gotten out of it -- or else. Politician X also knows the media are watching him like hawks.

Does he let them be drafted, thus keeping the media off his back, but endangering his son's well-being and possibly watching his now ex-donors recruit and bankroll a primary opponent in the next election? With negative advertising to boot: "Politician X voted to tell your kids to go into a dangerous war zone. When you vote tomorrow, tell him where to go."

Or does he get them out of the draft, thus sparing his family the turmoil and relieving the donor pressure -- only to return to his district to this: "Coming up after the movie: This man bought his son a draft exemption with the help of Politician X. Why can't you? Find out why on Eyewitness News at 11."

(Then there's the matter of the Internet: If there were even the possibility of a draft, every draft opponent in sight would put up 'how-to' draft avoidance guides.)
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:28 pm

Well, in the same article, predicting what the world will look like in 2012, they predicted that there will be peace between the Israelis and Palestine.

So I don't think we should be too worried about their predictions about Columbia  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Marcus
Posts: 1666
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 5:08 am

RE: Newsweek: US On It's Way To 2nd Vietnam - Colombia

Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:22 am

Columbia?.......the space shuttle?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown

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