Guest

Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Fri Sep 20, 2002 2:25 am

Breaking News from CNN:

Palestinian official Saeb Erakat tells CNN Israeli armored personnel carriers opened fire near Yasser Arafat's Ramallah compound. Details soon.

This is followed by the 2nd suicide attack today at Downtown Tel Aviv which killed 5.

Posted at 1821GMT September 19, 2002

 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sat Sep 21, 2002 1:17 am

Updated at 1603GMT Sep 20, 2002

Israel has destroyed entire Arafat's compound, except the main office.

Here we go again, Israel used "too much" force now.

 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sat Sep 21, 2002 11:37 am

i wouldnt say they used too much force. they didnt kill everyone there and they allowe people to evacuate and surrender. i doubt very much that a palestinian suicide/terrorist bomber would have been so gracious.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sat Sep 21, 2002 5:19 pm

Arafat has been instrumental in many Israeli deaths and many other Nationalities death for many many years. The world owes him no favour. It is not a civilian compound, so unfortunately, SAS23 can't say that IDF are targeting children this time, although one may argue....
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:35 pm

No, the IDF is not targetting children and civilians (this time) but all that will happen is that the Palestinians will retaliate with yet another attack; to which the IDF retaliates with another strike or tank invasion; to which the Palestinians retaliate ...

Clearly, neither side is capable (or willing) to stop this cycle of violence. Given the tinderbox state of the region at the best of times, the Iraqi factor means that for the rest of the world (and in particular the US and UK as the primary aggressors with Iraq) to ignore the situation in Israel and the Occupied Territories is like juggling with nitro glycerine.

Both sides are behaving like spoilt brats; therefore they should be treated as such.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sat Sep 21, 2002 8:55 pm

Note that:
President Yasser Arafat is a Nobel Peace Price winner taken hostage in the most brutal way by Israeli Prime Minister and ex-General Sharon, a man wanted in several European countries for mass murder and huge violations of basic human and international rights!

 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sat Sep 21, 2002 9:02 pm

SAS23, its good to see your liberal face on over this issue, however you fooled me once, you wont do so again.As soon as israel makes a mistake you scream blue murder yet when the palestinians kill innocent civilains, including scots, you then same its the fault of both sides.

even when a bomb goes off at an arab school which by the way, no-one who did it,you accused israel of state terrorism, when it transpired that the IDF havd in fact rushed to the school to stop a second bomb and help out, the statement wasnt retracted.

I believe when another suicide attack happens, israel will simply destroy more of arafats buildings and destroy other goverment buildings.If the buildings crumble on arafat and he dies then its his own bloody fault for not standing up to the terrorists and for not keeping his promises, only a few weeks ago arafatcalled for the end of terror and said his party would stop further attacks, this hasnt happened, unless arafat calls for a ceasefire then hes finished, even then people have seen yet again that hes irrelevant in the middle east, he lost all his credibility when he rejected the american offer of peace, once he refused to negiotate and once his own party started to suicide bomb innocent civilains then the world saw the truth.

Its such a shame that more innocent people on both sides have had to die before the world saw what arafat is like, the great travesty of the palestinian porblme rests on yasser arafats head.

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sat Sep 21, 2002 9:12 pm

just to clarify, i dont want yasser arafat dead, however i feel that if he does die then be because of his failed policies, i dont think it is wise to target him.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 12:19 am

Note that:
President Yasser Arafat is a Nobel Peace Price winner
who has signed, with his own bloody hands, money orders to terrorists, as head of one of the deadliest terror groups nowadays: the "Al Aksa martyrs' Brigades" which have carried out horrific bombings against hundreds of Israeli civilians in recent months.
He is also a Nobel Peace Price winner who ordered a huge ship full of terror weapons from Iran, in order to continue and improve his "peace policies".



But all this is not even worth being mentionned, Sabenapilot, isn't it?

There is one Nobel Price which Arafat definetely deserve, but it still has to be created; the Nobel Terror Price.

 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 12:33 am

How would you defend Sharon? A war crimes criminal wanted in several countries. He was taken hostage in the most brutal way by Israeli Prime Minister and ex-General Sharon, a man wanted in several European countries for mass murder and huge violations of basic human and international rights!

Sharon is your god so you dont think these things are mentioning do you? Sharon: A terrorist no better then Arafat.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 1:12 am

" man wanted in several European countries for mass murder and huge violations of basic human and international rights!"

which european counties, which 'several ' countries?, until sharon is indicted by the un no-one has the right to callh im a war crimes criminal, since the international criminal court has never tried to question him i suggest not everyone believes with you. The only country that tried was belguim under its laws, however the international criminal court said it had no right.

the issue isnt sharon, the worlds had 20 years to prosecute him and they havent.the issue is yasser arafat and his failure to maintain the peace that he promised he would in the olso accords and again and again including just over a week ago when his fatah party promised to stop the attacks, this hasnt happened, the issue here is that yassaer arafat has consigned his people to extra misery and violence because of his failure to accept nor negiogate with the usa regarding the creation of an independent, sovergin palestinian state.

yasser arafat has lost the trust of the international community, hes tried to rebuild it but hes lost it again, hes lost the trust of his own cabient which has resigned en mass at the failure of his policies, the issue is yasser arafat.

this week has shown that unless the terrorist groups are destroyed and unless theres a palestinian leader with power then more innocent civilians on both sides are going to be killed, butchered, massacred and maimed.

The responsibility of the peace rested on yasser arafat, when the latest plan began where israel withdrew in some parts in exchange for palestinian crackdowns, only the israelis kept to their side of the deal, the whole world knew and everyone agreed across the globe that this was a chance for peace and the palestinian leadership have blown it.It is no concidence that in the week where the IDF help save arab children and in the same week as the big four(UN, EU, russia and usa) annouce a new peace plan that the palestinian terror groups start the bombing again and the failure of yasser arafat to stop this is as bad as the failure of ariel sharon to be aware and to stop the lebanon massacre. Sharon didnt order the massacre but he didnt stop it, the idf didnt order it but they didnt stop it,yassear arafats actions are just as bad therefore if sharon is a war crimal then so is yasser arafat.

may arafat rot in hell for the betrayal of his own people.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 1:28 am

Belgium, France, Switzeland;... want some more?
Sharon doesn't even dare to come to these countries anymore fearing he would be arrested on the spot! Sharon is in exactly the same position Milosevic was a few years ago, i;e. virtually locked up in Israel and the ever loyal USA and UK.

BTW,
before the peace process in South Africa, Mr. Nelson Mandela was also called a terrorist and a troublemaker by many right wing politicians in South Africa, Britain (Maggy) and the USA (Reagan), yet all he did was trying to lead his oppressed people to freedom and equality by using all possible non-violent means at his disposal. Some of their most radical supporters are/ were more violent indeed, yet can you blame that on the leadership of these 2 Nobel Peace Price winners? How can any man which is kept imprisoned, without means of communication with the rest of the outside world have any influence on the individual behaviour of his people?

Let's face reality, Yasser Arafat has no direct hands in the terror attacks, all he can possibly be blamed of is that he does not do enough to stop them, yet every single bulled fired from a Israeli gun is fired on direct order of Sharon. I think it is clear who has blood on his hands here!
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 1:43 am

I get tired of the suggestions that Sharon is the problem here. For the sake of discussion, I will assume that everything that has ever been said about Sharon is true..or worse.

During Arafats time, there have been many Israeli prime ministers, and Arafat has said that each of them are the problem, and he is the saint. At what point do we realise that maybe Arafat is the problem....

Peres, Netenyahu, Barak, Rabin... the list goes on....all their fault....

Jeremy
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat

Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:20 am

If Israel were to take these latest suicide attacks on the chin, they would just intensify, as Israel would be perceived as having lost the will to fight.

Arafat is not serious about stopping these attacks, despite his feeble pleas in the western media. He still sends the message to his people to continue.

I think Israel is doing the right thing -- it is the best of the bad choices available to them.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
advancedkid
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compound

Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:42 am

History shows that Ariel Sharon is a
war criminal. Ariel Sharon is more
a threat to peace in the ME than Arafat
ever is at present. If Sharon were serious
about peace in Israel and Palestine
he would have immediately ordered the
demolition and evacuations of the settlements
in the midst of the Palestinian areas.
These settlements are for pete's sake
ILLEGAL.
Fact is, Sharon's agenda is to eradicate
the Palestinian presence bit by bit and will
find any excuse to do so. Why not allow the
United Nations into Israel/Palestine and let
them enforce peace and inspect weapons of
mass destructions there too.
Actually, if there's any country possessing
WMD's in the ME, then it's Israel.
Regards,
Advanced
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:44 am

BTW,
before the peace process in South Africa, Mr. Nelson Mandela was also called a terrorist and a troublemaker by many right wing politicians in South Africa...

The ME "peace process" has begun in 1993...Arafat came to Gaza in 1994...the first suicide bombings against the Israeli population have occured in 1994; So, we are not "before" a peace process...(actually, we are rather after a peace process...)



*******************************************************



Let's face reality, Yasser Arafat has no direct hands in the terror attacks


"Reality" ??! A la belge, peut-être...

- The Al Aksa Brigades Martyrs, which are part of Arafat's Fatah, have carried out, and claimed, many of the deadliest attacks against Israeli citizen since September 2000. Of course, as chief of these terror groups, Arafat has absolutely "no direct hands" in their crimes, that's clear and evident (...to all bad faithed person!);


- Arafat's hands have signed money orders for the members of the Al Aksa Brigades Martyrs, but these saint hands have nevertheless "no direct" involvement in the terror attacks...;


- Arafat has personnally called to Jihad in order to "liberate Jerusalem's mosques and churches", and said he was ready to "sacrifice 1 million martyrs"...which is direct incitement for more suicide bombings...but Sabenapilot is shameless enough to tell us that Yasser Arafat has no direct hands in the terror attacks;


- the Karine A ship, ordered by Arafat and manned by Arafat's close associates...was seized in January 2002, with 50 tons of weapons; these were terror weapons, including large quantities of extremely powerful explosives; but one should face reality and aknowledge that Yasser Arafat has no direct hands in the terror attacks!





******************************************************





all he can possibly be blamed of is that he does not do enough to stop them


ORGANIZING, PROMOTING and FINANCING terror attacks is slightly more than merely "not doing enough to stop them".



 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:50 am

Next we will be hearing that Shimon Peres is a war monger

Jeremy
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:54 am

Actually, if there's any country possessing
WMD's in the ME, then it's Israel.
Regards,
Advanced




Sure...Israel has killed thousands of innocent civilians using chemical weapons...Iran, Irak or Syria are not too high on your list.



Ariel Sharon is more
a threat to peace in the ME than Arafat
ever is at present. If Sharon were serious
about peace in Israel and Palestine
he would have immediately ordered the
demolition and evacuations of the settlements
in the midst of the Palestinian areas.


Interesting...Previous PM Barak offered to evacuate all the settlements in the Gaza strip and most of them in the WB (and offered Israeli territory in the northern Negev to "compensate" for the few settlements which would have been maintained)...A guy called Arafat categorically rejected this offer (which BTW also forsaw the establishment of an independant Palestinian State on these territories, with its capital in east Jerusalem and sovereignity over the Temple Mount...).

At that time, your so heavily hated Sharon was in the opposition...But, BY DEFINITION, HE is the threat to peace in the ME.


 
advancedkid
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 3:03 am

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/maps/m3070r17.gif
The UN can see to it that the settlements evacuate
and that both sides are disarmed. W'sMD should be inspected and destroyed equally in Israel as well as in
Iraq.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 3:43 am

If Iraq is a rough state because they have ABC weapons and do not obey international law, then so is Israel.
Israel has to obey international law too by returning to within its pre-1967 borders;this includes giving up the occupation of the Gaza strip, the full West bank, the Golan and East Jerusalem!

 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 4:13 am

Sabenapilot, it's easier to ignore the reality...on every level, I see.



 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 4:16 am

BTW... Iraq is a rough state because they have ABC weapons and do not obey international law...and because "they" have exterminated thousands of "their" own citizen with these weapons of mass destruction..... then so is Israel

...really...?.
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:38 am

Evacuate from Palestine? Lots of empty promises there .. little teeny drawbacks followed by a re-entry under the most minor of excuses.

The whole ME debacle appears to be going exactly as Sharon has planned it to go. It's all appears to be an orchestrated plan designed to gain him what he wants whilst fooling those who wish to be fooled!

It's hard to believe that Sharon could convince ANYONE that Arafat is leading the violence against Israel, particularly in light of the continuing decimation of the infrastructure in Palestine. But we live and learn.

I absolutely condemn the actions of the suicide bomber that killed in Tel Aviv, and I absolutely condemn the REVENGE actions of the Government of Israel in Palestine. This war started in 1947, and will continue until the rest of the world steps in and disarms both countries. The biggest threat to world peace right now is NOT Iraq, make of that what you will.....




VH-ADG
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
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RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:51 am

Thank God this is finally happening, good for Israel. Yassar Arafat is a modern-day Hitler whose goal is to eradicate Israel through any means possible, killing civilians and politicians, making Israel live in constant fear. You dont know how happy I was to see that bulldozer ripping down the building. Arafat deserves what is coming to him, and to tell you the truth, I could care less if the guy is killed, it just makes up, to a certain extent, the hundreds of Israelis killed during his vicious reign.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:11 am

hey not-so-advanced-kid what do you think will happen as soon as israel dismantels its nuclear arsenal???? hmmm shortly there after it will be invaded by syria,iraq, Jordan possibly egypt, maybe even iran. Ever heard the term " nuclear deterent"?
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
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RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:35 am

What's this about Israel raising their flag in Arafat's compound? I don't quite get that story.
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:50 am

This month, as good people throughout the world remember the senseless brutality of last September 11, we must also mourn the second anniversary of the outbreak of the intifada.

Even while remaining wary of promiscuous analogizing, comparing and contrasting can be instructive. Israelis and their supporters have much to learn from the way Americans and their supporters responded to vicious terrorist attacks against innocent civilians.

Americans responded to the September 11 massacres with shock, fury and unity. From the start, there were two main goals: to comfort the victims and punish the perpetrators. A torrent of love, support and generosity succored the victims and their families. Thousands of volunteers were turned away from relief efforts, millions of dollars poured into relief funds. At the same time, the cries for justice were resolute and mature. Most Americans were careful not to jump to conclusions — or demonize all Muslims. And even the supposedly warmongering Republicans waited weeks before attacking Afghanistan, methodically gathering evidence, assembling a coalition, mustering forces and maintaining the national consensus for just and comprehensive action.

The results were pretty impressive. The families of the victims were well-tended to spiritually, psychologically and materially. During those dark autumn days, Americans from coast to coast rediscovered the magic of community, the value of living life integrated in family and friendship networks.

Moreover, the massive embrace that enveloped the families of the victims sent a clear message to the evildoers: This will not stand. Anyone who doubted American resolve, anyone who wondered if terrorism would work, saw just how effective the United States could be, both communally and militarily, at home and abroad, and saw how illegitimate it was to slaughter innocents. American military action reinforced the message by targeting the Al Qaeda terrorists and their hosts — and demonstrating that host regimes, which are easily targeted, have much to lose by aiding these psychopaths.

While mourning and fighting, many Americans continued thinking. The surge in books purchased about Islam, Afghanistan, Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden reflected a need to make sense of the events of September 11, to understand the context in which these murders occurred. But while asking, as Newsweek did, "Why do they hate us?", most Americans justifiably refused to wallow in guilt. Unlike too many of their intellectual leaders in academia, Americans could ask "What went wrong?" — with Islam, as Bernard Lewis did in his best-selling analysis, "What Went Wrong: Western Impact and Middle Eastern Response" — without unduly blaming themselves or legitimizing the terrorists.

By contrast, Israel responded to the Palestinian resort to violence with denial, dithering and division. Too many Israelis minimized the Palestinians' dramatic abrogation of the Oslo accords.

Lured by the siren song of Oslo, addicted to the peace and prosperity of the 1990s, Israelis minimized the Palestinian offenses, while the government and the army simply played defense, being reactive not proactive. Moreover, many Israelis blamed themselves and not Yasser Arafat, the settlers and not the terrorists, the victims and not the victimizers.

Israel's prime ministers during the intifada, Ehud Barak and Ariel Sharon, responded with a confusing mix of revenge and restraint, of condemnations and concessions. It took Israel a year-and-a-half of enduring thousands of attacks, and the deaths of 130 Israelis in March 2002 alone, before finally the military entered the territories in April and brought the war home to the terrorists.

And yet the man chiefly responsible for this wave of terrorism, the head of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat, remains in power.

It is hard to prove whether a massive Israeli response early on would have solved the problem. Some Israeli dithering and confusion has been the result of laudable humanitarian, diplomatic and strategic considerations. Still, the contrast is worth pondering. The massive and united American response resulted in a year free of the kind of catastrophic terrorism so many terrorism "experts" warned us to expect.

At the same time, Israeli half-measures have helped the conflict to fester, so that we now enter the third year of the intifada with hundreds of casualties on both sides, deep despair all around and little resolution in sight.

The lesson here is clear: As a vulgar and violent form of political theater, terrorism exploits indecision, uncertainty and sympathy for the weak. Palestinians have begun to reconsider their support for suicide bombings only now, after repeated examples of Israeli resolve, not after the initial miasma of half-measures and concessions.

Moreover, terrorists watch the news. When much of the world embraced the United States on September 11, Al Qaeda terrorists were weakened. Similarly, when much of the Western world criticized Israel for responding to Palestinian attacks, Palestinians felt emboldened.

And yet there is a danger in learning this lesson too well. On some levels, Israeli wavering reflected Israel's strength, not weakness — Israel as a humanitarian and liberal democracy truly committed to finding a just peace with its neighbors. History is littered with instances of civilizations that lost their way when they plunged ahead into war with little restraint and no self-doubt.

This, then, is the great political, ideological and psychological challenge for the United States, Israel and other Western democracies in this age of terrorism. How do we withstand the Islamicist threat resolutely, how do we root out terrorists prospering in our midst, exploiting the culture of humanitarianism and dissent so essential to a vibrant democracy, without risking our own ability to learn from self-criticism and without stifling our consciences? How do we win this war against terrorism without losing our souls?

"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:54 am

followed by a re-entry under the most minor of excuses.


Hundreds of Israeli civilians assassinated in suicide bombings against busses, restaurants, shopping malls, trains and any other kind of public places...is what you call the "the most minor of excuses"...

You are, once more, showing your absolute hatred for the Israeli people.



What a shame!

 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 10:15 am

Australian foreign minister Alexander Downer has publically joined other democratic countries in criticizing the heavy handed behaviour of the Israelis.

As for the suggestions above that Arafat is the leader of the opposition to the Israeli opression of Palestine I suspect that time will show a different truth and that the innocent civilians in Israel/Palestine will pay the price for this ignorance.

Toda: You would have us believe that there have been no incursions into Palestine. You minimise the suffering of these people in everything you post. You are hardly in a position to call me out for anything. I also note your dramatic exaggeration. I don't hate the Isreali people, but I do believe they are treated by their own Government as irrelevant in the quest to possess the land that we currently see as Palestine.

Now that's a shame ...



VH-ADG
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 10:45 am

innocent civilians in Israel/Palestine will pay the price for this ignorance.

I agree. Look what the innocent people have to live through on both sides.

Thats why both man have to be bought out in public and killed via firing squad.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:09 am

Just want to add that Israel is actually a coward.

Shouldn't Israel target the Hamas extremest militant group in order to meet their goals on "war on terrorism" and "capturing the terrorists" rather than targetting and bullying Arafat? Hamas has been known to have major links towards every suicide bombings in Israel.

What Israel is currently doing now is to help Sharon to save his political life. Israel's current move is to capture their so-called "terrorist", so they can get show their citizens that they're "fighting against terrorism". This could boost the trust (and more votes on the next election) from the Israelis.

The Israeli "war on terrorism" policy is a total failure. If Israel DO captured the terrorists who they want, then how come there's more and more suicide bombings?

Israeli Government is a coward. They don't have the guts to fight against terrorism. They don't have the guts to hunt down Hamas terrotists.

Current situation is similar to parents who tried their best to get their out of control teens settle down. People blames the parents who tried so hard, not the out of control teens.
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:23 am

Bigo747; When Israel actively hunts down the Hamas and IJ terrorists they are accused of "Occupying the West Bank and Gaza Strip". Even if they kill terrorist masterminds they are condemned as being "heavy handed"; or "murderers of innocent women and children" Israel is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The only thing Israel could do that would not bring condemnation, resolutions, and sanctions from the UN and other countries against it would be to drive itself into the sea  Insane

 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:35 am

No they could set up security zones bordering WB and GS. That would do a lot of good. Like the security zone in Syria. Set up a zone just outside to catch terrorists sneaking in. Havent they thought of that.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:53 am

Problems exist with that, David.

Not the least of which is the willingness of the terrorists to die.

Then there are plenty of ways to get people or munitions around or through or under or over a wall of any size.

Also, as a democratic state Israel has an arab presence inside its borders, with voting and citizenship rights, that can still be manipulated into killing the Jews.

And many Palestinians have jobs in Israel, International groups condemn Israel when they do not let the Palestinians get to their Jobs; therefore lowering the Palestinian quality of life.

How many people near the border and otherwise would have to die while they set up such zones?

Where are the borders? It seems these are not completely agreed upon between Israel and the Palestinians.

Sorry, david; I'm not an optimist on this whole situation.
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 12:12 pm

Checkpoints to let people in and out. Fences and walls with guard towers. A few more people might die but personally if this plan works its a small price to pay. That way Israel can increase security for its citizens and at the same time let the people in the WB and Gaza get around on their own land.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 12:28 pm

The UN can see to it that the settlements evacuate
and that both sides are disarmed.


The UN can't pass a resolution on if a delegate can go take a piss, let alone disarm both sides. And do you REALLY think that Israel would let ANYONE disarm them, so that their enemies could destroy them? Riiight. What are you smoking?

The same old, tired, repetative voices that always come apologizing for the Palestinians are out in force, I see. How predictable.
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 12:36 pm

And what happens when the Israelis shoot at a shadow running toward the fence that turns out to be a kid? What happens when the Palestinians complain that they are being forced to live in squalor on their side of the fence? What happens when they force their children and young men to rush the fence? When they dig tunnels? When they lob mortars? When they continue to cultivate the terrorist suicide bombers? When Israel goes in to try to stop the suicide bombers?  Insane

The USA has a fence between itself and Mexico to keep illegal immigrants out, and to keep drugs from entering the country. Drugs and illegal immigrants enter the country just as easily still. Replace the USA and Mexico with Israel and Palestine, Replace immigrants and drugs with terrorists and bombs and you've got the current situation.

It wouldn't work.

 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 4:40 pm

Thats why both man have to be bought out in public and killed via firing squad.

Well I think that's a tad drastic, but certainly something must be done, i'm sick of reading news reports about dead children :-(

Jessman: it's the method that labels them terrorists. They are damned if they do, but we cant comment on the if they don't because we've yet to see restraint. I wonder if they are deliberately empowering the Hamas with these latest moves. Will Sharon cry more crocodile tears when his ill thought out actions end up with the death of more Israelis? How about you?

Not the least of which is the willingness of the terrorists to die.

The suicide bombers are willing to die because it's a preference to living. This has been brought about by 50 years or opression. You can't blame them for that, it is not their fault.

Also, as a democratic state Israel has an arab presence inside its borders, with voting and citizenship rights, that can still be manipulated into killing the Jews.

There is no democratic state, and how offensive to suggest that the arabs as a whole are untrustworthy. It may be difficult to identify the enemy but you don't blame everyone because of that.

And many Palestinians have jobs in Israel, International groups condemn Israel when they do not let the Palestinians get to their Jobs; therefore lowering the Palestinian quality of life.

Well considering the Israeli Government has created this problem on their own, why shouldn't international groups do exactly that? If you destroy the infrastructure in a country you are condemning the people into poverty. If you bulldoze their houses or blow up their communities you force them into poverty. Everything the Israeli Government does pushes the Palestinians further and further into poverty. Indeed, if you scan the UN site you will see that the Israeli Government is even so arrogant that they limit the underground water that the Palestinians can have access to even though it flows under Palestine (and thus ensuring that Isreal thrives whilst Palestine flounders).

They have every right to condemn Israel.

How many people near the border and otherwise would have to die while they set up such zones?

and how many will die whilst Sharon enacts his plan to incite the violence and take further liberties in Palestine? The man appears to have no conscience, using his own people as pawns in his big game.

Where are the borders? It seems these are not completely agreed upon between Israel and the Palestinians.

They were officially set out in 1947. Seems to me that it's not the Palestinians with the problem with the borders (except for a select few).

Sorry, david; I'm not an optimist on this whole situation.

No one is ..

The UN can't pass a resolution on if a delegate can go take a piss, let alone disarm both sides. And do you REALLY think that Israel would let ANYONE disarm them, so that their enemies could destroy them? Riiight. What are you smoking?

Yes, the UN is the organisation your schmooze to get your own way and then ignore when it doesn't suit you. The Israeli Government has learnt from the master. But then, that's what the blue berets are for. If the UN mandates disarmament (and i'm not saying it ever would), then Israel could fight the rest of the world.. a situation their Government would prefer anyway .. (it's the victim mentality). That allows them to blame everyone but themselves for the predicament they are in.

The same old, tired, repetative voices that always come apologizing for the Palestinians are out in force, I see. How predictable.

and the same old apologist out here plying the same old worn out excuses for Israels behaviour. How predicable.




VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 6:40 pm

The problem that the Palestinians have is that when things are peaceful there, the Israelis tell the rest of the world that this means they are happy with the status quo.

Let's get this straight, people. There is no difference whatsoever between Israel as an occupying force in Palestinian territory and the Nazis as an occupying force in Europe during WW2; or the Soviets as an occupying force in the East Bloc.

In the same way as various Resistance groups fought back against a brutal repressor, so the Palestinians are forced to do the same against the Israelis. They did not ask the Israelis to blatantly disregard the original UN agreements; they did not ask the Zionist terror groups to carry out acts of murder and ethnic cleansing against their civilians; the did not ask to be cast to the winds to live in squalor as refugees in countries around the Middle East.

As ADG said, the greatest threat to world peace is not Iraq - it is a country with chemical, biological and nuclear weapons (between 200 and 500 warheads) and which jointly with its close friend, apartheid South Africa, ethnic biological weapons. It has not hesitated to use those weapons to blackmail its supposed ally, the United States, into paying close on a hundred billion dollars to prop up its bankrupt economy - whilst at the same time it has attacked a US warship; spied on the US and traded its intelligence 'take' with the Soviets, resulting in the torture and executions of dozens of US agents; and withheld information that would have saved the lives of the US Marines in Beiruit. In addition, there is clear evidence to show that they knew what was happening in the run-up to 9/11 ... yet did nothing.

With 'friends' like these, who needs enemies?
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:18 pm

The UN can see to it that the settlements evacuate
and that both sides are disarmed


ROTFLMAO  Laugh out loud

Shoot Alpha1 pretty much summed up my feelings on this comment.

It is taking the US threatening to act unilaterally against Iraq just to get inspectors back in there, to play their little shell game with Saddam. Something that should have been threatened by the UN a long long time ago.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 9:10 pm

Here are some interesting figures for you all to mull on, particularly those who think that israel shows great restraint and that the Palestinians are doing this without provocation. I was unable to find a complete list of suicide bombs after the 19th of June so these attacks are not deliberately excluded. When reading this, take particular note of the days of the attacks and what occurs immediately prior and immediately after these attacks. Anyone who cannot see a cycle of violence here is a fool!


Gaza Tank Assault (29 August 2002)

Nablus Old City Destruction (6 August 2002)

Gaza Assault and Execution (23 July 2002)

Prolonged Reoccupation (9 July 2002)

Al-Khalil Standoff (28 June 2002)

Reoccupation (24 June 2002)

Five Palestinian Children Killed (21 June 2002)

Israel Retakes Palestinian Areas (20 June 2002)

(19 Jun 2002) - bomb - Jeruselum
(16 Jun 2002) - bomb - Herzliyah

Call on United Nations Security Council to Prevent Israeli Incursions (11 June 2002)

Sharon's Op-Ed Article in the New York Times (10 June 2002)

Shelling of Presidential Headquarters in Ramallah (6 June 2002)

(5 Jun 2002) - bomb - Megiddo

New Illegal Israeli Settlement in Occupied East Jerusalem (4 June 2002)

Israeli Military Assault Against Al-Barbara Church (3 June 2002)

(27 May 2002) - bomb - Petah Tikvah
(22 May 2002) - bomb - Rishon Lezion

Special Israeli Permits Further Restricting the Movement of Palestinian Persons and Goods (20 May 2002)

(19 May 2002) - bomb - Netanya

Israeli Occupying Forces Kill Palestinian Women and her two Children (10 May 2002)

(7 May 2002) - Bomb - Rishon Lezion

Hebron Incursion (29 April 2002)

Sharon's Deiceiving Declarations (22 April 2002)

Jenin Aftermath (16 April 2002)

(12 Apr 2002) - bomb - Jerusalem

The Israeli Onslaught Against the Palestinian People and the Palestinian Authority (10 April 2002)

(10 Apr 2002) - bomb - Kibbutz Yagur

Israel's Continues its Suffocating Military Siege (5 April 2002)

Israel's Defiance of Security Council Resolution on 1402 (4 April 2002)

Continuing Military Israeli Siege (2 April 2002)

(31 Mar 2002) - bomb - Haifa
(29 Mar 2002) - bomb - Jerusalem
(27 mar 2002) - bomb - Netanya
(21 Mar 2002) - bomb - Jerusalem
(20 Mar 2002) - bomb - Afula

Israeli Explosive Kills Mother and Four Children (15 March 2002)

(14 Mar 2002) - bomb - Karni Netzarim

Israel Attacks Jabaliya & El-Amari Refugee Camps (12 March 2002)

(12 Mar 2002) - bomb - Matzuva

1200 Palestinians Detained, Blinfolded and Handcuffed (11 March 2002)

(11 Mar 2002) - bomb - Ashdod
(10 Mar 2002) - bomb - Netzarim
(9 Mar 2002) - bomb - Jerusalem
(9 Mar 2002) - bomb - Netanya

Death Toll Rising (8 March 2002)

Over 1000 Palestinians Killed by Israeli Occupying Forces Since 28 September 2000 (7 March 2002)

(7 mar 2002) - bomb - Atzmona
(7 Mar 2002) - bomb - Ariel

Israel Instensifies its Military Attacks (6 March 2002)

Targeting PA Buildings (5 March 2002)

(5 Mar 2002) - bomb - Sderot
(5 Mar 2002) - bomb - Afula
(5 Mar 2002) - bomb - Tel Aviv
(5 Mar 2002) - bomb - Bethlehem

Israel Decides to Instensify Attacks Against Palestinians (4 March 2002)

(2 Mar 2002) - bomb - Jerusalem

Israeli Occupying Forces Shoot Pregnant Palestinian Women (28 February 2002)

(27 Feb 2002) - bomb - West Bank

Security Council Debate regarding the Detiorating Situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including Jerusalem (26 February 2002)

(25 Feb 2002) - Jerusalem
(25 Feb 2002) - Gush Etzion
(22 Feb 2002) - bomb - Efrat
(22 Feb 2002) - bomb - North of Jeruselum

Continuing Israeli Assaults (21 February 2002)

Israeli New Response (20 February 2002)

(19 Feb 2002) - bomb - En Arik
(18 Feb 2002) - bomb - Gush Katif
(18 Feb 2002) - bomb - Jerusalem
(16 Feb 2002) - bomb - Karnei Shomron

Israeli Occupying Forces Invade Saida (15 February 2002)

(14 Feb 2002) - bomb - Gaza

Israeli Occupying Forces Continue with its Incursions into Palestinian Areas (13 February 2002)

(10 Feb 2002) - bomb - Be'er Sheva
(8 Feb 2002) - bomb - Jerusalem
(6 Feb 2002) - bomb - Moshav Hamra

Israeli Occupying Forces Commit 5 More Extrajudiciary Executions (5 February 2002)

Sharon Makes Yet Another Dangerous and Condemnable Statement (1 February 2002)

(30 Jan 2002) - bomb - Taiba
(27 Jan 2002) - bomb - Jerusalem

Khan Yunis Assassination (25 January 2002)

(25 Jan 2002) - bomb - Tel Aviv

Nablus Raid & Settlers (22 January 2002)

(22 Jan 2002) - bomb - Jeruselum

Israeli Reoccupation of Tulkarem (21 January 2002)

Israeli Attacks on Tulkarem (18 January 2002)

(15 Jan 2002) - bomb - Beit Jala

Israeli Assasination and Home Demolitions in East Jerusalem (14 January 2002)

Israeli Demolitions of Palestinian Homes in Rafah (11 January 2002)

Israeli Claims of Alleged Ship (9 January 2002)

(9 Jan 2002) - Bomb - Kerem Shalom

Killing of Three Palestinian Teenagers (3 January 2002)

Israel Obstructs President Yasser Arafat from Religous Observences in Bethlehem (26 December 2001)

Israeli Occupying Forces Kill 29 More Palestinians (21 December 2001)

(12th Dec 2001) - Bomb - Emmanuel


Interestingly enough whilst searching for this information I found the "facts of israel" site which has an article "Palestinian Genocide bombers kill thousands in France", i'd never heard this so I linked to the site and what did it say? "They haven't yet, but they could! See the level some people will go to in their attempt to foster hatred in this world?




VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 9:57 pm

ADG, you have said that the Israeli "re-entries" inside PA terrirtories occured
"under the most minor of excuses"
; these "re-entries" occured after
horrific waves of suicide bombings which killed hundreds of Israelis; more than 100
civilians were killed in the sole month of March 2002, prompting the military action
in April.

You try, as is often..., to totally transform what I said:

Toda: You would have us believe that there have been no incursions into
Palestine.


I haven't said anything like that, ADG... I said exactly the opposite: I said that
the "incursions" OCCURED because of the unending suicide bombings, which are in
your hateful view nothing more than the most minor of excuses.

 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 10:10 pm

You willingly "omit" to mention the number of Israeli victims in your precise list...
Just one example:
"Netanya - bomb" 31 innocent persons killed on the eve of a Jewish holyday...it doesn't sound too well in your pro-Palestinian campaign, so you simply decide to hide it and call it "bomb".


Oh and I forgot...the "alleged ship", as you call it, is still another Zionist lie...The PA "marine officers" who were captured onboard were surely cloned by some Zionist laboratory...
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 10:23 pm

ADG, you have said that the Israeli "re-entries" inside PA terrirtories occured "under the most minor of excuses"; these "re-entries" occured after
horrific waves of suicide bombings which killed hundreds of Israelis; more than 100 civilians were killed in the sole month of March 2002, prompting the military action in April.


April was a long time ago. Prior to the two most recent attacks the Israelis had moved back into Palestine, there was NO bomb, there was NO killing .. indeed, i'm hard pressed fo find these "horrific waves" of suicide bombings that kill "hundreds of Israelis". Indeed, the suicide attacks are horrific, but they do not occur "in waves", nor do they kill hundreds of Israelis .. sure when you add them up they do .. that that's not what you are trying to suggest.

Dishonesty is not called for.

Indeed, where is your condemnation of the murder of Palstinians this weekend by trigger happy members of the IDF? Your silence infers that you support the revenge attack of innocent people for the actions of others. I find that quite pathetic.

You've harped on about one minor point and managed to totally ignore all other points, am I to assume thats because you cannot address them? Or is the plight of the Palestinians irrelevant to you? Or would you simply rather try and twist my words to suit your own end without actually addressing any point? Which is it Toda?




VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 10:35 pm

You willingly "omit" to mention the number of Israeli victims in your precise list...Just one example:
"Netanya - bomb" 31 innocent persons killed on the eve of a Jewish holyday...it doesn't sound too well in your pro-Palestinian campaign, so you simply decide to hide it and call it "bomb".


What exactly is the relevance to the timing? It is certainly relevant to your emotive attempt to convince us that there are "waves of suicide bombers killing hundreds of Israelis" at a time, but not at all relevant to the point.

Interesting to note that you have appeared to completely missed the point.. AGAIN. Read it again, ignore the numbers of dead, it's not a pissing competition.


  • 21st December - no suicide bombs for 9 days .. IDF attacks and kills
  • 26th December - no suicide bombs for 14 days .. IDF DELIBERATELY incite Palestinians by refusing to allow Arafat to celebrate his religious days.
  • 3rd January - no suicide bombings since 12th December, Palestinian youths killed by Israelis.
  • 9th January - same day as the alleged shipment (and no, I don't believe that a man caught smuggling arms is going to get up, give us the peace signs and then tell us in very good english that Arafat sent him) a bomb goes off, most likely in retaliation to the 3 previous acts of agression from Israel.
  • 11th January & 14th January IDF moves into Palestine and attacks, destroys and murders as retaliation for the 9th January bomb
  • 15th January another bomb goes off most likely in retaliation to the actions of the 11th and 14th by the IDF
  • 18th and 21st January .. Israel retaliates
  • 22nd .. suicide bomber retaliates


This is how it continues, tit for tat, circle or cycle of violence. This is the point. Not how many people are killed on each side, but how they continue to incite EACH OTHER into violence.




VH-ADG
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:40 pm

ADG, your list is interesting, but it doesn't go back far enough-to when the intifadeh started, which was right around the time two years ago when peace talks were in full swing. That's when the Palestinians who are terrorists ratcheted up their violence against Israel. I think ommiting that fact doesn't show the whole story.

But, I will agree with your general premise that this is a cycle of violence that neither side seems willing and/or able to break. You have one side, the terrorists, who are not interested in a peace whatsoever, even if many of their fellow Palestinians are, and who increase the tempo of violence every time there's a hint at making progress towards peace; and you have Israel-more precisely, Ariel Sharon, who over-reacts to each suicide attack. That does NOT mean he shouldn't defend his people, but it does mean that if he and Israel would not respond so overwhelmingly after every suicide attack, they might just take back some of the moral highground that has been lost since his incumbency began. Both sides are locked in an endless dance that only costs lives.

I'm not for disarming Israel; that's a recipe for disaster, unless SAS23, who advocates such things, is willing to station about 10 divisions of NATO troops, and a bunch of Air Wings, in Israel to guarantee that Israel's Arab neighbors don't try to over run them some day, which I don't think most people in the west want. I also am not opposed to a legitimate military in a yet-to-be-made State of Palestine, but the terrorists must be disarmed somehow. I don't know if and/or how this can be done, but it's imperative, and for one reason: even if there's the creation of Palestine, these terrorists won't stop their attacks on Israel. It's their only worldly power, and they will never give it up.
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:52 pm

Dishonesty is not called for.

Ha ha..YOU write this!!


*****************************************************


April was a long time ago. Prior to the two most recent attacks the Israelis had moved back into Palestine, there was NO bomb, there was NO killing ..

And you speak of "dishonesty"...



indeed, i'm hard pressed fo find these "horrific waves" of suicide bombings that kill "hundreds of Israelis". Indeed, the suicide attacks are horrific, but they do not occur "in waves", nor do they kill hundreds of Israelis

Your own list indicates they are occuring in waves; of course, your list refrain from indicating that hundreds of Israelis were killed in these bombings...but they are dead, victim of blind Palestinian terro, wether you mention it or not.



****************************



ignore the numbers of dead, it's not a pissing competition.

1. I don't ignore the "number of dead"

2. You seem to ignore the number of Israelis killed in terror attacks...but to have a "detailed" count of Palestinian casualities...willfully adding the suicide bombers, those killed in attempted attacks and those killed while preparing their bombs...


******************************


21st December - no suicide bombs for 9 days .. IDF attacks and kills


Woaw!!! No suicide bomb for NINE days! That's really impressive!!

On December 1st, 11 Israeli teens have been killed on a pedestrian mall in downtown Jerusalem...The next day, 15 persons were killed in a bus in Haifa...But really, after NINE days without a suicide bombing... what more could Israel ask for???


I would be ashamed to write something so low...
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Mon Sep 23, 2002 12:09 am

"Shouldn't Israel target the Hamas extremest militant group in order to meet their goals on "war on terrorism" and "capturing the terrorists" rather than targetting and bullying Arafat? Hamas has been known to have major links towards every suicide bombings in Israel. "

It has, it has killed the military leader of hamas and arrested its top commandors, it killed a top hamas commenador but people complained because civilains were also killed.

"Checkpoints to let people in and out. Fences and walls with guard towers. A few more people might die but personally if this plan works its a small price to pay"

israel has checkpoints, its accused of racism and athepid laws if it enforces them its building a security wall around part of the west bank and is being accused of breaching human rights.

"There is no difference whatsoever between Israel as an occupying force in Palestinian territory and the Nazis as an occupying force in Europe during WW2; or the Soviets as an occupying force in the East Bloc. "

ahh, good old sas23, wait until theres criticism of israel then jump in,the fact is sas23 there is.Israel is allowed under un mandates and charters to engage in action in self defence, its alo allowed to go into any country that harbours terrorists.

"See the level some people will go to in their attempt to foster hatred in this world?"

yes, there are 'zionist' sites out there that are run by crackpots, theres also a number of anti israeli hate sites out there too.We shouldnt trust either, however its not the pro israelis who resort to posting from biased websites.

there is a chain of violence in the middle east, however whenever the world tries to break that chain, the terrorists up the killings.It was the palestinian authority who started this mess by rejecting the olso peace accords and by rejecting the peace plan by the usa. Israels withdrawn in the past and the bombings have continued, its give land for peace and they have continued, it began to dismantle a number of settlements and the bombing continued.

then when a plan actually starts working(eg israel withdraws in some areas in exchange for the palestinian clampdown on terrorists), things seem ok, arafat condemms terror, says his party will stop the attacks and theres movement for a new peace plan on the table with a palestinina state within years....

the arabs welcome it, so do the israelis if the palestinians kepp to their word...

then what happens? bang two more bombs and the circle starts again.Israels tried to stop that cycle but it cant while the PA is the way it is.

its easied restrictions, given the palestinians tax dollars, stopped an arab school from being destroyed and innocent school children being killed and its got nothing to show for it.

the problem is that to the israelis they have offered a lot before, inclduing withdraws, 90+ % of the west bank, the gaza strip, the dismantlement of the vast majority of the settlements plus east jerusalem and land within israel to make up the short fall and to it its a fair offer, you speak to the avergae israeli they could believe it and what happens, its a no without any offer to negiotate.

to israel to dones a lot but the palestinians break their words.Israel is entitled to go into palestinian areas and arrest as many terrorists and militants as it pleases.


the israel-palestinian peace process in the 90s did the same as northern ireland, authority and votes in exchange for and end to terror, unfortunately it hasnt gone the same way, in northern ireland whether an attack happened from an extermist they were arrested and both sides clamped down, this hasnt happened in this case.

yasser arafat has kept his word.it makes me laugh people are complaining that israels targetting arafat but when it goes and targets the militants its accused of targeting innocent civilains, it cant win.

the only way to break the violence is for the palestinian authority to full renounce terror, to reform, hold fresh elections and to offer at the un a gurantee that it will keep to its word, israel cant trust arafat because everything hes said has been a lie.In the olso accords he renounced all terrorism but its still taking place.

only the decommising of the palestinian terrorists will be enough.however, arafat and the pa are too sacred to take part in operations with the israelis to clamp down on the terrorists.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Mon Sep 23, 2002 12:50 am

Alpha 1, if you look at the history of the Middle East you will clearly see that there is no real threat against Israel: that which the Israelis portray as such is merely other states having to counter Israeli aggression or alternatively actions taken by guerrilla groups.

Yom Kippur was in retaliation for Israel's strike against Egypt, Jordan and Syria. The Israeli line is that those countries were intending to launch strikes against Israel, but this is blatantly false - if that had been so, they would have been a very high state of readiness and would not have been caught napping as they were. The world has moved on since 1973, and Egypt and Jordan are both friendly to Israel.

Israel is the only country in the region proven to have WMDs. There is no justification whatsoever for Israel to have those, and if the US wants to invade Iraq on the pretext that they "might" be trying to develop such capability then such action should also be taken against Israel who are ready, willing and able to use them. Israel remains the best armed and equipped country in the region - thanks to the United States, from whom they extort billions of dollars every year in armaments.

I firmly believe that a disarmed State of Israel (at least as far as WMDs are concerned), coupled with a Mutual Defence pact with the US and/or NATO will create a far safer (and peaceful) Middle East.

As long as Israel continued to be a vicious and oppressive occupying force, they must accept the consequences - and those consequences are terrorism. Go Canada! brings up UN mandates that allow it to protect itself - that's fine, but he neglects to mention the hundreds of Resolutions and Censures against Israel that the Israelis ignore.

If Israel truly wants peace, then it needs to address all the concerns of the Palestinians - including the right of return of Palestinian refugees. It is laughable that Jews are permitted the right of return following the Diaspora ... yet those who suffered the ethnic cleansing and terrorism to make way for them are not.

Double standards, or what?  Insane
 
Guest

RE: Israel "invades, And Attacks" Arafat's Compund

Mon Sep 23, 2002 1:08 am

If Israel truly wants peace, then it needs to address all the concerns of the Palestinians - including the right of return of Palestinian refugees.

...which means: If Israel truly wants peace, then it needs to officially dismantle itself - and all the Jews who arrived there after 1917 (or 1885) and their descent must return wandering the world...

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