lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

Asians: Indians.

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:50 am




Columbus was wrong, obviously, so why do people [Americans] still refer to Natives Americans as Indians? Furthermore, why do the Native Tribes refer themselves as Indians? Are they all just too stubborn to learn their own history?

Indians are from India, DUH!

In addition why are Asians somehow only Orientals? I remember my brother telling some jackarse kid in his class that he was Asian and that idiot honestly thought he was from China. WTF? How many of you like to group up people as if only people who look the same are the same? Just because my folks do not have the stereotypical pale skin and flat eyes that they are not Asian?? Why do you folks think that middle easterners are not Asian and probably African just because Egypt has Muslims in it?

The Middle East in simply a nickname for that region, it is still in Asia, THEY ARE ALL ASIAN! Everybody from southern ex-USSR to Jordan and Israel to the Philippines down to Sri-Lanka is in fact an Asian.



GET THAT INTO YOUR HEAD!
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Asians: Indians.

Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:51 am

The Middle East in simply a nickname for that region, it is still in Asia, THEY ARE ALL ASIAN! Everybody from southern ex-USSR to Jordan and Israel to the Philippines down to Sri-Lanka is in fact an Asian.

Technically, that's correct. At least in the United States, however, the term "Asian" generally denotes a person of East Asian ancestry, in other words someone of the Mongolian race.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Rai
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Asians: Indians.

Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:54 am

Technically, that's correct. At least in the United States, however, the term "Asian" generally denotes a person of East Asian ancestry, in other words someone of the Mongolian race.

And if you go to the UK, Asian usually denotes a person from the Indian subcontinent. They call people of the Mongoloid race oriental.
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: Asians: Indians.

Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:09 am

Brits refer to people from the sub-continent as SOUTH Asian not Asian, a relatively new and generic title instead of attempting refering to specific nationalities (Indian, Bangladeshi and such). Haven't heard the term oriental in sometime now, it's pretty much a dinosaur.

Sorry Lephron but the only place some one from Jordan or Kazahkstan are referred to as Asian is in the US. It is a title of conviniance only as they certainly don't consider themselves to be Asian which must be the true determinant don't you think ?

Residents of Asia (China, Korea, Japan, etc) only really use the term Asian when speaking with Occidentals as they know it is a term they understand.

Surely such a broad title for 3/4 of the worlds population is as useful as calling Americans Europeans (ethnicity and culture being manly european after all) when clearly such a title would be wrong.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
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RE: Asians: Indians.

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:35 pm

Brits refer to people from the sub-continent as SOUTH Asian not Asian, a relatively new and generic title instead of attempting refering to specific nationalities (Indian, Bangladeshi and such).

South Asian also seems to be catching on in the United States.
People from India (and maybe, inaccurately, Pakistan/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka etc. too) often were called "East Indian" in the U.S., with the "East" part presumably distinguishing them from American Indians. That term seems to be falling out of use, however.
"Arab" is sometimes used in the U.S. as a more or less generic name for anyone of Middle Eastern, North African, or Central Asian ancestry. It includes not just Arabic-speaking peoples, but Iranians, Afghans, Turks, and so on. I would suspect the term's growing use is due to the fact that the aforementioned people are difficult to categorize racially, and Americans aren't comfortable with complicated racial classifications. We've already created a new race - Hispanic or Latino - where none exists in nature, so what's one more?

"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Guest

RE: Asians: Indians.

Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:15 pm

Makes me laugh about "Latinos" designation in the USA...
And about what is an "Indian" and an "Indian"...
xxx
I was born in Santa Monica, USA, my father was an Irish-American, my mother, Belgian born of Russian parents... I lived all my youth in Europe, as my Dad was a US Diplomat and worked in US Embassies in Paris and Brussels.
xxx
What I am, I dont even know... just a mix of everything. In 1993 I moved to Argentina, got married there, to a Buenos Aires young lady, and became a naturalized Argentina citizen... My first name, Paul, got changed to Pablo... Occasionally I travel back to the USA, these US Immigration officers are really confused with me, I present my Argentina passport, with my (now) brand new USA visitor and crew visas... I speak English with a Los Angeles "Valley Boy" vocabulary and accent... I got Irish "red hair" and "white skin"... this is so strange to them that I got taken on the side for "further investigation"... the gentleman asking me questions, said to me, that "Latinos" dont look like me, and they thought I had a false passport...
xxx
USA people, yet a nation of immigrants know so little about the rest of the world, it is sad, really... Claiming to be the world leaders, they know nothing about the rest of the world...
xxx
Argentina as an example, is far from the USA "Latino" definition... as I fully understand that the connotation "Latino" or "Hispanic" means to Americans, a person of Spanish language, of mixed (Native-American Indian) blood... The Argentines are... NOTHING like that as a majority... although speaking Spanish they call "Castellano" (Castillan), they are 97% white European race, and as the "conquistadores" from Spain destroyed all the local Indian tribes, there were few "natives" left to mix with in Argentina (and Uruguay)...
xxx
The largest immigration group in Argentina was actually from Italy, not Spain, this at a later time, to include numerous Central Europeans, large number of Irish and Welsh, and walking in the capital, Buenos Aires, makes it appear a "white-only" city... maybe the only one on earth nowadays... Blacks and "Native Indians" are rarely encountered, and Asians are an extremely small minority in the city...
xxx
Argentines are far from being racists, as there is no "ethnic" groups there, merely a few "ethnic"... individuals, lost in the middle of blond and blue eyed people, who speak Spanish with a (almost) Italian accent...
xxx
And look at the telephone book of Buenos Aires, there are pages and pages of Italian names, tons of O'Conners and Kellys, many "Von something"... but their first names are always Pedro, not Peter, or Erico, not Erik... and they would have problems to address theirselves to you in English or German... Buenos Aires people do not speak much English, except in hotels and touristic areas.
xxx
There are "native Indians" in Argentina, in the North, near the Bolivia, Brasil and Paraguay borders, they are sometimes even speaking Aymara or Guarani language, they do not live in "reserves" and are fully integrated... We call them "Indios"... just to say that they are not "white Europeans"...
xxx
People from India, or the Indian subcontinent, not many in Buenos Aires, are known as "Hindus" locally, we pronounce that word "hin-doo" as opposed to "in-dee-oh"... quite different, we know the difference...
xxx
And we love the people from everywhere here in Argentina... except if your soccer team has defeated our team...  Wink/being sarcastic
(s) Skipper
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Asians: Indians.

Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:24 pm

Skipper: I always thought that Argentines were mostly of Italian decent, with some Germans, but not too many from Spain.

Actually, I know a Korean who was born in Argentina. Fabian Kim.  Big grin He tells me that Asians are very, very rare over there.

I also hear that there's a fair number of Arabs down there. Wasn't your last President of Syrian decent? Batistuta is of Arab decent too, no?
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
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RE: Asians: Indians.

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:36 pm

In the UK, people from, or descended from the Indian Subcontinent as generally referred to as 'Asian'.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: Asians: Indians.

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:40 pm

Columbus was wrong, obviously

Uhm, Columbus had thought he reached India, hence calling them Indians. DUH.
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Asians: Indians.

Thu Sep 26, 2002 5:32 am

"Uhm, Columbus had thought he reached India, hence calling them Indians. DUH"

Well KROC, after 510 years we should know otherwise, correct?!
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Asians: Indians.

Thu Sep 26, 2002 5:39 am

Well hell Lehpron. The name Indian just kinda stuck, and who are we to change something after510 years. Besides, the proper termanology these days is Native American.
 
mt99
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Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Asians: Indians.

Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:50 am

Actually.. the term "oriental" refers only to objects not people. As in "oriental rugs" and "oriental cuisine"

---------------------
from dictionary.com

oriental - often offensive

adj : denoting or characteristic of the biogeographic region including southern Asia and the Malay Archipelago as far as the Philippines and Borneo and Java; "Oriental politeness"; "for people of South and East Asian ancestry the term `Asian' is preferred to `Oriental'"; "Asian ancestry" [syn: Asian] n : a member of an Oriental race [syn: Oriental, oriental person

------------------

"GET THAT INTO YOUR HEAD!" -- what a joke!



Step into my office, baby
 
us330
Posts: 3411
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Asians: Indians.

Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:47 am

Of all the countries, I'd say that Argentina has the most attractive blend of populations, as I have yet to see an ugly Argentinian woman.
Regarding the whole debate about Columbus, it has already been proven that Columbus wasn't the first European to reach the "New World", so it seems almost idiotic to be celebrating Columbus Day. I have been reading a book, "Stolen Continents" by Ronald Wright outside of school, and Wright brings up an interesting point: "How can a land be 'discovered' if people are already living there?"
 
Krushny
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 4:22 am

RE: Asians: Indians.

Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:41 am

I once talked to a Guatemalan guy of native descent, who insisted not to be called "Indio". This would be perpetuating Columbus' big mistake, believing he had reached India when he actually was in America. And I could not really discuss that because he was obviously right (though a bit nitpicky...).  Sad

In Spain, when we say Asians we mean East Asians (mongoloid race), And "Hindúes" are the people from the subcontinent. As for Africans, we do correlate that word more with the North African muslim people, whose pollitical correct name is Maghrebí (common word : Moro); black Africans have a political correct name too : Subsaharianos, while commonly they are called negros. By extension, colloquially all Arabs are called sometimes moros too.
So as you can imagine, when I first heard about "African Americans", I did not know what to think...


And B747skipper, interesting your post about Argentina. The population mix is good, I still have to meet an ugly Argentinian girl...
But it was not the Spanish "conquistadores" who exterminated the Argentinian natives and blacks, this was done by the white Argentinians in sXIX after Independence...
 
seven_fifty7
Posts: 900
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 2:54 am

RE: Asians: Indians.

Fri Sep 27, 2002 9:07 am

About Argentina.....


Everybody I know who's been there characterize those "European descendend" Argentinians as very, very arrogant at best, and flat-out racist at worse. My African American good friend (who is a F/A for United and used to do the JFK-EZE route often). The citizens of Buenos Aires were never that hospitable to black Americans, according to him. He'd be served last at a local restaurant when accompanied by his fellow white American F/As. Shopkeepers would be rude to him in the stores. And last, but not least, on his flights between EZE-JFK, passengers would practically REFUSE to be served by him because "he couldn't possibly as clean as the rest of the flight attendants." This is the Argentine population you guys know and love.

Remember, there are many descendants of Nazi sympathizers who fled Europe during the WWII to settle in Buenos Aires. This could probably explain why a lot of "blonde blue-eyed" Argentinians think they're sooooo much better than the rest of Latin America.

I personally, do not believe these people are the "most beautiful" in the world. Not by a long shot. ....That honor absolutely goes to the incredible people of Brazil.

 
Rai
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RE: Asians: Indians.

Fri Sep 27, 2002 9:24 am

Actually, I will somehwhat echo what Tony said. The guy I know (Fabian Kim) left Argentina because of flat out racism. He went to Brazil at first, a country which he LOVED, but then moved to Canada because there was no opportunities in Brazil. He hates Canada, by the way...LOL.

As far as the most beautiful women in the world. I'd also agree that Brazil is right up there (where to they hang out in NYC?). I'd also add South Korea (women there are INCREDIBLE!) and Italy.
 
Guest

RE: Asians: Indians.

Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:53 am

Dear Seven Fifty7 and Rai -
I see your point about possible racism in Argentina, with such overwhelmingly "white European" group, 97% in Argentina... I never heard of, or saw "blatant cases of racism" here in restaurants or on the street... because in town here, I hardly ever meet a person, who could be potentially subject to racism...
xxx
Let us not confuse "racism" to be the same as "rejecting" certain groups of people... as an example, frequently in Paris, Roma or Madrid, I avoid any contact with "gypsies" and their kids, who are notorious thieves and pry on tourists... it is not by racism that I do that... I am not a racist, I try to prevent my wallet to be "lifted" out of my pocket...
xxx
Indios are not liked much, in Buenos Aires, I encounter many Guarani and Bolivian musicians on the streets, being a musician myself, I never fail to talk to them, ask them to play a certain melody, and leave some money for them, since I am attracted to their music...
xxx
Correct, Rai... Argentines are predominantly "Italians" rather than Spanish, the Spanish language was already established in that country, when large groups of Italians immigrated there... Nowadays, the "Argentina Spanish" is spoken with a dash of Italian style, and sometimes Italian words still are used...
We do not say "Spanish" we call the language "Castellano", since there are many languages spoken in Spain... Same as saying "speaking Belgian or speaking Swiss"... In Buenos Aires, the "street languages" is known as "Lunfardo"... many Italian words are used in that "dialect"...
xxx
My wife is mixed Italian and Guarani tribe, I am Irish-American... I settled in Argentina because of my job here, and then married my wife... at first she wanted to "move to the USA" - it was her dream - I took her a few times to visit the USA (she does not speak any English), after spending a few weeks in the "USA she loved so much", she told me she rather be home in Argentina... Apparently she was subject to two or three typically "racist" incidents... She has never asked me again to visit USA... now her attraction is Brazil...
xxx
I know Argentina had the reputation of a refuge to former Nazis, it is a fact, but many South American countries did the same, the most notable is Paraguay... Many Nazi Germans found it easy to "hide" i.e. Argentina or Brazil, since it had been easy for them to mix with German communities who arrived in these countries before Nazism even existed... Many "Germans" I know in Argentina and Brazil are from parents who arrived there way before 1940...
xxx
Like there is much research in the USA to "seek your roots of immigration", it is same in Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay... the large number of immigrants from Europe - Germans, Irish, Italians - who left in the 1920s had equal choice of destination, USA, Argentina, Brazil... many went to Argentina and Brazil, which had better living conditions than USA 1929 Wall Street crash...
xxx
Seven Fifty7 - I assume you are an African-American... I am a White American who spent all his youth in Paris and Brussels, my dad was a US Diplomat in US Embassies there, I went to school with many Africans... never had ideas of "racism" with them... until I came back to USA, the good relations I had with Africans in Europe, was not possible in USA...
xxx
You call Argentines racists, certainly there are some, like everywhere, there are Japanese, who are racists with Koreans... there is racism everywhere, but it is quite limited in Argentina if any exists... Brazil is more open, yes... but do not generalize too much... Many Black Brazilians live in misery, because they are rejected by the dominant social classes there...
xxx
My career as airline pilot is nearing its end, after having visited some 150 countries and having made friends everywhere in the world, if I know something well, is "the world"... and "the people of these countries"... I fail to see much of that type of expertise among the people of USA, so please, do not lecture me about how Argentina is... Now I am Argentina citizen, by choice, since my wife asked me to adopt her citizenship...
xxx
All the best, friends...
(s) Skipper
 
seven_fifty7
Posts: 900
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 2:54 am

RE: Asians: Indians.

Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:36 pm

B747skipper,

Uhhh, just for clarification, I am not Black. Both my parents were Italian descendants, and my father even lived in Uruguay and Brazil for 9 years. I just had a black girlfriend once and currently have some black and Latino friends. (Afterall, I do live in the Bronx.)

For the record, I do not believe all Argentinians are racists. Some are quite warm, I'm sure. I think a better term would be "less-exposed." This could easily bleed into xenophobic or racist leanings if they aren't careful.
 
Guest

RE: Asians: Indians.

Fri Sep 27, 2002 5:37 pm

Dear Seven Fifty7 -
The only thing I learned in my life, with my travels, is not to judge people by their nationality or citizenship, there are "nice people" everywhere, and... unfortunately idiots too... Truly, too, before living Argentina, I thought all the "Germans" there were fugitives of 1945 Germany... I heard their side of the story, to find out that most of their parents or grand parents had come to Argentina way before Hitler... granted, many were able to hide in Argentina and other South American countries, but realize it was easy for them to make friends with other "innocent" Germans established in these countries... Eichmann I understand was thought to be a German who had escaped his country because of Hitler... by the "German community" in Buenos Aires... he probably had false documents "proving it" to them...
xxx
I am like you, the color of people or, their religion does not matter to me, as long as they have a smile and a good heart... When I go to the USA many there think of Argentines as people with a big sombrero, a poncho, making siesta against a wall of his little house... and drinking... Tequila... Makes me laugh... we are as you know "quite different" in description.
 Wink/being sarcastic
(s) Skipper
 
Marcus
Posts: 1666
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RE: Asians: Indians.

Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:41 am

In Mexico Argentinian tourists do not enjoy a good reputation in general......now I'm not saying all Argentinians are snobby tight as$es, but after talking with people in the tourist industry and from personal experience they do seem to have a condescending attitude towards the locals.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Asians: Indians.

Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:45 am

Fortunately (I think), the word Indian to describe native Americans who are descended from people who were here before the Europeans arrived is falling out of use.

The word Arab should be primarily used to describe people who live from Tunisia eastward to Iraq and down the Arabian Peninsula. People who live outside that zone shouldn't even be called Arabs, even if they are Muslim. The people of Iran are definitely not Arabs--they speak a different language (Farsi) and even have a different sect of Islam. West of Tunisia, the peoples there are the Berbers, the same group that took over southern Spain and created that amazing civilization there from 700 to 1200 AD.
 
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RayChuang
Posts: 8005
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Asians: Indians.

Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:59 am

The thing about Argentina is that there are huge numbers of people of Italian and German descent living in that country. And in Buenos Aires, there are sections of the city where you wonder does anyone speak Spanish, given most of the speakers speak German or Italian.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Asians: Indians.

Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:26 pm

Actually, the term Asian truly on describes those in East Asia (Mongoloid race). The peoples of South and Southwest Asia are all of Indo-European origin. Just read this out of my World History book. All the peoples of South Asia, SW Asia, and Europe originated from around Ukraine and migrated as far as Western China. Therefore, the term Asian doesn't really describe any of these peoples, as they are all of European origin.

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