fspilot747
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What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:16 pm

I have been trying to figure this out for a while.. I tried asking around, not a straight answer anywhere. What exactly constitutes a minority for a college? I know that hispanics are considered a minority, as are African-Americans. But is there more? Indians, Asians, etc...? What about mixes. If someone has a parent from...Africa and another from...India or asia..are they a minority in the eyes of an admissions staff member?

[sigh] the only thing more stressful than college is worrying about getting into the one of your choice...

University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: My No.1 choice. Please Please!

-FSP
 
Guest

RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:26 pm

Anyone that's not a caucasian is considered a minority,so if you are not of european descent, you have nothing to worry about......if you are european descent,with the way University of Michigan is,then I'd start looking at other schools as well just in case to be on the safe side.I say that from indirect experience (had a friend rejected for admission last year just because of that)
 
FlyBoeing
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:30 pm

Actually, "minority" does not include Asians since Asians aren't really an "underprivileged" minority. When I was applying to college, I noticed that African Americans and Hispanics could get into Ivy League (and Stanford, Duke, and Georgetown) schools with levels of high school work and literacy that top-rank Asians and Caucasians exhibit in their high school sophomore years.

Did you know that at Michigan, getting a perfect 1600 on the SAT counts for 1/4 of the admissions weighting as being a member of an underprivileged minority counts?

stupid PC admissions officers.
 
jcs17
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 12:08 am

Ahhh, nothing like another pet liberal cause (affirmative action)!!
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
fspilot747
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:14 am

The U-M system is crazy like that. You get about 75 points for having a 3.7 unweighted GPA...bout 11 for getting a 30 on your ACT..bout 5-10 for having amazing extra curriculars and activities..like 1 for having alumni..and TWENTY..for being a minority. It's like "Congratulations! your hispanic! welcome to Michigan!!!"

its ludicrous. But i want to go to UofM so badly it hurts. I'm giving it my all. I'm trying to fly over in the next few weeks to visit the campus and talk to an admissions counselor, take the tour(even though ive been there tons of times)..just so theycan see that im INTERested in going, and not just applying here and there.

take care--wish me luck!,
-FSP
 
david b.
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:17 am

Write a nice-long letter to the admin saying how much you love this school and how much you want to go there. We all know why AA is needed...........because of conservative caused racism.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:37 am

Hey David. lol, I can't write a letter like that! I mean a have a fairly good GPA with honors and AP classes (you can see in my earlier post about "Calculus necessary for college")..my only downside is that im out of state... I am thinking about going to the campus in the next few weeks, setting up an appointment with an admissions counselor to discuss things, and take the campus tour session..yes i know that means flying down all the way from cali.. This way at least they can see im serious about going, and not just applying here and there.

regards,
FSP
 
redngold
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:21 am

African American
Hispanic no matter the color of your skin
Asian
Native American
Pacific Islander
Native Alaskan


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
fspilot747
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:32 am

Redngold: Yes but is that so in the eyes of universities? Asian isn't so much minority anymore...at least not here in california and the UC system as far as I know, because asians are a majority here now, lol

-FSP
 
seven_fifty7
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissio

Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:31 am

If its that easy to get into U. of Michigan as a "minority," then why isn't that campus predominately black/Latino/Native American/Disabled? Last time I was there, you could practically count the numbers of "minorities" on your hands and toes.

In short, there's no truth to these suburban legends told by the young, underachieving conservative kids with racist parents.

Trust me.
 
jaysit
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 11:31 am

Depending on the state you're in minority can mean anything. However, more often than not it means underrepresented minorities which include Black, hispanic and native american students. Asians, especially in California and New York, are not considered minorities for purposes of college admissions. What I find rather amusing is that after conservative groups lobbied to stop the UC system from using affirmative action to admit students it wasn't the percentage of White students that went up at UC Berkeley but the percentage of Asian students who incidentally had the highest combination of SAT scores and GPAs. So then the refrain heard was that "those" Asians were just messing up the chances of good ol white students from being admitted.

As far as CO 757's crap about how if youre not Caucasian you have nothing to worry about, I guess he should go tell that to the millions of non-Caucasian students around America who bust their butts in high school to get good grades and the highest SAT scores. Perhaps, he should board a CO 757 and visit the campus of MIT or CalTech and see that the percentage of Asians there is nearly 50%.

Also, having tutored students at Princeton Review for the SATs, LSATs and GMATs, I can assure you that it is easy to raise your scores by at least 300 points by dishing out the big bucks to these organizations, money that underprivileged students from lower class urban neighborhoods do not have. So when people cite statistics as to how black and latino students have lower SAT scores on average, I would have to say that college admissions officers factor in their family incomes viz a viz those of upper middle class suburban kids to determine if statistical access to entrance exam preparatory classes is evident. Lastly, having been a preliminary interviewer for my own Ivy League College for students I can assure you that any white student with good grades and a competitive SAT score who hails from a low income family (especially rural families) will have no trouble whatsoever getting into any college of his/her choice.

The mythical white scholar athlete with a perfect 4.0 GPA and a 1600 SAT score who got rejected by Harvard and Berkeley is just as likely to exist as the Unicorn.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
cfalk
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:12 pm

I think that the success of the Asian (or Oriental, if you prefer) populations in the U.S. and elsewhere just shows that the disparity of living standards between the dîfferent races is the result of the amount of work/play each is willing to do, much more than racist attitudes.

How come I rarely see Asians playing basketball, rapping, hangin' out in front of the 7-11, joining a band? They are too busy studying!

Charles

The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
jaysit
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:32 pm

Well, I for one am glad that we have basketball, rap music, and bands here in the US. Also, depending on where you live you will see folks of different hues hanging out in front of the 7-11. Incidentally, on a different note altogether, some 7-11s began blasting classical music and opera to rid their portals of undesirable folk and it seemed to have worked.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
hartsfieldboy
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Thu Sep 26, 2002 11:17 pm

I have the difficulty (just with PC form-filling bullshit, it's great for everything else) of being half white and half Latin (Brazilian), would I be considered a minority? When I applied for college I just chose "other" to increase my chances of being accepted  Smile
 
jcs17
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:29 am

Dont tell me that white kids with 4.0s and 1600s dont get denied in favor of a minority with lower scores. That is a lie. In fact, affirmative action is so racist, that some schools are actually placing quotas on Asian admission. David, I find it ironic that you are calling people racists, considering the fact that you have made it quite clear that you hate all Jews.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
seven_fifty7
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissio

Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:30 am

How come I rarely see Asians playing basketball, rapping, hangin' out in front of the 7-11, joining a band?


Probably because you've obviously have never been to Chinatown, or parts of Queens or Brooklyn where young Asians selling marijuana, crack, and illegal steroids and participating in gang fights is not all that uncommon.

And probably because you're basing all of your perceptions on what you see on TV and in magazines.
 
Guest

RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:49 am

Excuse me Jaysit, my friend got rejected for admission there last year for just that reason, I just stated what I knew to be a claimed fact,as they had told him indirectly that if it wasn't for the "system",he would of been there(his exact words). I could react further to that flamebait, but I won't,as I know it isn't worth my time and effort to go mudslinging with someone who obviously thinks the answer is to swing mud if they disagree with a stated view.
 
mirrodie
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:53 am

It is a twisted concept.

I listed myself, back when i was in school, as OTHER. b/c I am American of Haitian descent. Yet, I look Hispanic.

1 year later, I was talking to my advisor and he asked "what are you?" I told him, then he asked, "can that be considered as black?" I said maybe.

2 days later, I get a scholarship for 13,000 a year x 3 years. Just because of a twist on words.

Minority is now an archiac term that needs redefinition.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
jaysit
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:51 am

CO 757 - your so-called facts are just as muddy as your crass arguments. More anecdotal nonsense that barely deserves a mention, rather than a whole paragraph I threw in for good measure. Did your friend get a letter from the University saying "Dear Mr/Ms.. Inspite of your impeccable credentials you are being denied admission because of some unqualified black/hispanic/native american sod?" I bet not. And as I pointed out, being non-Caucasian doesn't give you carte blanche to sit around and watch MTV as you so crassly implied. If that were the case, then you blatantly insult all those Asian kids - the media pronounced perfect minority - who bust their chops trying to make it to the school of their choice.

As far as the contention that someone with a perfect 4.00 and 1600 SATs was rejected in favor of a minority student with lesser scores... Where does that happen? At Harvard? At MIT? At Stanford? At the University of Virginia? I think not. Every single student I have interviewed with perfect scores got into schools of their choice.

Of course students with perfectly good - but not perfect - scores get passed over for all sorts of reasons: race, ethnicity, socio-economic background, gender, alumni standing, athletic ability, professed interest of major, etc. When I applied to colleges, I got into 3 of my top choices but got rejected by Stanford, my first choice. Thats life. Are racial categorizations perfect? No. A wealthy Hispanic 17-year old of European or mestizo racial heritage could easily have trumped my acceptance because she checked off the Hispanic box. Who knows? Maybe she was a budding opera singer or a gymnast? But the system isn't perfect. It works well 99% of the time, but sometimes you fall into the tail end of the curve and learn to live with it.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Hepkat
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:59 am

Guys, this thread has been suggested for delete a few times for flamebait/harsh language. Although I agree there IS a possibility of things getting blown out of proportion, I nevertheless see no reason why this discussion shouldn't continue.

I'd like to ask everyone to keep the discussion civil and stick to the facts. Please refrain from personal attacking other users whose views you don't agree with.

Hepkat
Forum Moderator
 
FlyBoeing
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 5:25 am

Thanks for not just deleting me and all my posts, Hepkat.

Now here's my affirmative action question: Why don't they simply do it ECONOMICALLY? It seems to me that opportunity in this country is highly correlated with wealth and then with race. The root of the correlation is with wealth.

You have the damn shame of rich African-Americans getting in everywhere and poor white kids getting the shaft because of it.

The worst part is that at most Ivy League colleges they give minorities so much "support" that they add nothing to the community. Blacks and Hispanics don't sit together at the dining halls. They have their own "community houses". This is especially apparent at Dartmouth, where the rural nature of the community makes it difficult to get non-Asian minorities up here. So we have centers for Jews, Hispanics, and Asians to insulate themselves from the rest of the community.
 
david b.
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 7:36 am

Dont tell me that white kids with 4.0s and 1600s dont get denied in favor of a minority with lower scores. That is a lie. In fact, affirmative action is so racist, that some schools are actually placing quotas on Asian admission. David, I find it ironic that you are calling people racists, considering the fact that you have made it quite clear that you hate all Jews.

True that happens but is quite rare. If a white boy has a 4.o and a 1600 SAT score he/she will get in. Regardless of school. As for your personal attack, well I think that AA should be modified to include the poor reguardless of race. I didnt complain about racism, you did. I said AA is needed because racism, sexism and the fact that the ruling class is dominated by white males.

Your last sentence was a personal attack and I voted for deletion of your post. Dont give me that BS.

Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
jcs17
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 8:05 am

Not true, a guy in my class last year, he had a 4.3 GPA (with IB and AP classes), basically the kid never got a B, and he scored a 1600...rejected at Harvard and Yale (he ended up going to Cal-Berk). The ruling class??!? Where are we...India?!? Last time I checked we didnt have a caste system in America. Affirmative Action is a direct form of racism, it puts one race ahead of another...In America we call that racism. I dont care what the intention of AA is, it is still racist. Ruling class, thats actually pretty funny, especially when Democrats are the ones keeping minorities down by giving them handouts and not making people earn stuff.

Thats great that you wanted to delete my post...I dont care, it is the truth and anyone knows that after reading your posts about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
david b.
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 8:16 am

You have to bring that up because you cant defend yourself. Too damn bad. Yes people in power and high ranking position such as CEOs are white males. Only like 3 females and 5 minorities make up the CEOs for fourtune 500 companies. Yes it is racism but we need it. Would you hire a minority? Better yet would you hire a arab since you hate them so much?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
jcs17
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 9:20 am

Why are you moaning? Because I know personally of an example that totally disproves your arguement?!? As for hiring someone who is a minority, are you kidding? If they are going to bring something to my company that I need... and I guarantee you 98% of those people in charge of hiring people agree with me. But, I'm not just going to hire someone as a token gesture, even though a white person is clearly more qualified then them. AA might have been needed in 1979, but it is clearly not needed today. I dont hate Arabs, I disagree with many of the Arab viewpoints on particular issues. Their is a difference between hate and disagreements.

America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:15 am

"How come I rarely see Asians playing basketball, rapping, hangin' out in front of the 7-11, joining a band? They are too busy studying!"

You dissapoint me Charles.......

THEY ARE RICING THOSE CIVICS! Big grin

Every rice burner should be melted into a garbage can on this planet
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:22 am

"As far as the contention that someone with a perfect 4.00 and 1600 SATs was rejected in favor of a minority student with lesser scores... Where does that happen? At Harvard? At MIT? At Stanford? At the University of Virginia? I think not"

One i can think of off the tp of my head is the University of California branches in the early 90s
 
cfalk
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:45 pm

LOT767-300ER,

While I would think that rebuilding a '69 Camaro is much more manly than one of these little toys, adding turbos, NOS, different gears, suspension etc. etc. to a car is a highly technical exercise that actually teaches you something. They are budding engineers!

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Barcode
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:18 pm

Harvard turns down half of all 1600 SAT scorers - perhaps they came across as well, a little ... dull, bookish perhaps? Not that that is a bad thing in itself, but the colleges are seeking to establish a well rounded class with people from all kinds of backgrounds. There's simply not enough room to take every high scoring kid.

To FlyBoeing - I wholly agree that admissions should be done with an economic bias if somebody has lower grades than average for the institution. AA seems ridiculous if an average scoring black/hispanic person from a wealthy family gets the coveted spot over the poor white kid who has made the most of all the opportunities available to him. If someone is middle class/wealthy then they can afford tutors, prep books, independent college counsellors - the whole works. For this reason I'm not very sympathetic towards the minority kid with a 1000 SAT score if he's from an affluent background.

The minorities that get in *are* qualified by whatever standards the institution imposes. There's no point in allowing someone in only to have them flunk out - that would give the college a bad rep and call into question their admissions policies. SAT scores do not tell the whole story, but I do wonder why someone who has prepped for it still receives an average score. I'd argue that the kid with a 1200 who has no money to buy a book for the test probably has more innate intelligence than the kid who received a 1400 and spent hundreds on revision aids.

I do think AA should be done away with in its present form: you don't reward someone for declaring themselves Christian, Jewish, White, Gay on the application form do you? Being black or hispanic is no different. The colleges should look at the individual in the *context* of their background, school, family and see if they have made the most of whatever they have had - skin colour doesn't even need to factor into the picture.
 
jaysit
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:12 pm

You can moan and grumble about AA all you want, but for every anecdotal evidence of some white person who got bumped off a preferred list in favor of a minority, someone else can offer you anecdotal evidence of blatant rabid racism denying someone a job/admissions for their race, ethnicity, gender, perceived sexual orientation. Its America and for all our efforts at wiping out all the -isms of our time, they still exist.

In a system and society such as ours, which is as close to a meritocracy as you can get, there are still pitfalls.

The next time you complain, think about the tens of thousands of Asians and Jews in the 60s and even the 70s who even after succeeding academically and professionally at the zenith of achievement were denied admissions/promotions,etc because of their race and ethnicity. And try and think about the millions of black and hispanic kids who grow up in precarious homes, attend shoddy schools in rough neighborhoods and still make a 1200 on their SATs. I hope that the kids on the original posting of this thread who wanted to go to U of Michigan gets in, and if his/her achievements are of a high caliber, I'm sure that will happen. If it doesn't, try not to blame some kid who didnt have the same access that you had, but who still succeeded as much as he/she could. I wonder why we never see the blame game being directed to the jocks, the kids of alumni, those with connections, etc. Its because it is so much easier to identify the easy targets.

Lastly, may I add that AA is not a creation of the Democrats alone. These were bipartisan attempts at quelling the rabid racist hiring and admission policies that existed in the South (and the rest of the country as well) well into the 60s. Those yellow dog racist Democrats of the past who resisted every attempt at integration are the Conservative southern republicans of today, and frankly, they have barely changed. There is support for AA even as it is gradually being scaled back as graduation rates of blacks and hispanics start to rise.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
prosa
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:55 am

You can moan and grumble about AA all you want, but for every anecdotal evidence of some white person who got bumped off a preferred list in favor of a minority, someone else can offer you anecdotal evidence of blatant rabid racism denying someone a job/admissions for their race, ethnicity, gender, perceived sexual orientation. Its America and for all our efforts at wiping out all the -isms of our time, they still exist.

Moaning and grumbling may exist partly because almost all evidence at the individual level is anecdotal. Colleges usually don't give reasons why they reject applicants, and jobs almost never do. It's not uncommon that disappointed applicants are left wondering whether their lack of minority status was the decisive factor. On the flip side, minority applicants who get admitted or hired never quite know whether they made in through on the merits or because of their ethnicity.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
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RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:53 am

The next time you complain, think about the tens of thousands of Asians and Jews in the 60s and even the 70s who even after succeeding academically and professionally at the zenith of achievement were denied admissions/promotions,etc because of their race and ethnicity. And try and think about the millions of black and hispanic kids who grow up in precarious homes, attend shoddy schools in rough neighborhoods and still make a 1200 on their SATs. I hope that the kids on the original posting of this thread who wanted to go to U of Michigan gets in, and if his/her achievements are of a high caliber, I'm sure that will happen. If it doesn't, try not to blame some kid who didnt have the same access that you had, but who still succeeded as much as he/she could. I wonder why we never see the blame game being directed to the jocks, the kids of alumni, those with connections, etc. Its because it is so much easier to identify the easy targets.

So youre basically saying that colleges should punish us as whites now, because something happened 30-40 years before I applied to school. Congratulations to those kids that get 1200s and live in crappy neighborhoods, but if they are getting 1200s, why do they belong at Michigan? How does that happen? There are excellent schools that would die for kids with 1200s. I dont see how a poor kid with a 1200 is the same as rich kid with a 1500...dont give me that, "Oh, they were poorly raised," "Oh, they couldnt attend SAT class"....Common cries of the Liberal...Trust me, if they want to go to an SAT class they can go to one. Very few kids actually get private tutors for the SATs, and those that do often are the ones that struggle. Lets cry for a minute for the kid that got a 1200 and was raised in a poor neighborhood...Oh, never mind that kid somehow gets into Michigan because of his race and economic status and not his acheivements, it is the liberal hand-out mentality (hey, his parents probably voted for the democrats!)

I vote for equality and there is no equality created in AA, people get shafted, in favor of someone inferior.

Those yellow dog racist Democrats of the past who resisted every attempt at integration are the Conservative southern republicans of today, and frankly, they have barely changed.

Are you joking? If anything black dem politicians (Jacko, Wrangell, MCKINNEY, Mosley-Braun) are far more racist today than any white "southern" republican. A southern republican gets called "racist" if he insinuates anything that has to do with Af-American responsibility...A black politician is called noble and just if he makes a general statement where the "whites are keeping the blacks down" You and many people on a.net live in a false reality, where whites and the rich are always to blame for everything, when in fact people create and live their own lives. I'm just so tired of hearing this crap.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Sat Sep 28, 2002 3:15 am

Oh yea you forgot about women. Even thought they outnumber men, they are consider social minorities.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Guest

RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Sat Sep 28, 2002 4:41 am

the key to getting into michigan is applying early to the school's rolling admissions program.

send your application right now if you haven't already. don't write the essay.

thats it.

i got into michigan and i was a complete idiot in high school. im also white.

your arab right? thats a "protected minority" in the eyes of college admissions officers. Asians, Jews, and catholics are not. Arabs, Hispanics, and blacks are.

good luck and enjoy living in markley. you'll get laid a lot if you play your cards right.

tnnh
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: What Constitutes A Minority? (college Admissions)

Sat Sep 28, 2002 6:18 am

Charles....ok they dont actually in their garage screwing on fart cannons....they just leave their car at the body shop which is owned by a white guy......usually.

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