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Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:39 am

I have heard a lot of talk on t.v. lately about the possibility of slavery reparations. Do you think that African Americans should get reparations?

UALrampORD
 
lubcha132
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:40 am

no, and neither should smokers.
 
brianhames
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:41 am

No, not if they were not DIRECTLY effected from their great great great great grandpa being a slave. Its in the past, and yes it was a crappy deal. But they (desendants of slaves) don't deserve money.
 
KROC
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:42 am

No. I am saying this as a white male who never had to experience slavery, BUT to start handing out money is absurd. We as a nation need to get over the fact that it happened, and it was horrible, but we cannot change the past. The only reparations that should be made, are the total and absolute equal treatment for all races in America. That is the best we can hope for, but while there are racists out there, this can never be accomplished.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:24 am

How can you define African-American anyway? It's not that simple. Millions of blacks have moved to the US since slavery ended. There has also been MUCH mixing of whites and blacks in the last 300 years. The estimate is that the average American black is actually about 22% white (in terms of average lineage) while the average American white is about 1% black in lineage (indeed, demographers state that the majority of American whites with black blood -- however small -- don't even know they have black blood). Moreover, there were MANY black slave owners in the US south......do they owe (or are they also owed) reparations????

The whole idea is just so messy.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
avt007
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:49 am

What`s next? Maybe I should sue the Italian government for what the Romans did to my ancestors...............
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:18 am

Question for all of you: who is more of an "African-American"? A black American who has never set foot in Africa, and would never want to, or a white guy who emmigrates from Zimbabwe and becomes an American citizen?

Just something to think about.

As for reparations. It's an attempt by the underserving to take money that is not theirs. It's almost like one great big Welfare grab.
 
Rai
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:27 am

Here's something else to think about: why would blacks want reparations to begin with? I mean, many already have a reputation of receiving too many "handouts". Aren't slavery reparations more or less the same thing? Don't blacks want to shed themselves of that image?
 
Superfly
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:29 am

How many of you people actually spoke to other Blacks about this issue?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Rai
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:31 am

I did. And he agreed with me.

(filler)
 
Superfly
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:36 am

It would be interesting to see all of those blue-eyed, blonde-haired Cherokee Native Americans at some Universities suddenly turn in to African Americans.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
N312RC
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:39 am

My family didnt come to America from Poland until 1910... WAAAAAAAAAY after slaves. They never owned one, so why should I owe them? Over my dead body will I ever pay reparations to somebody who doesnt deserve them, namely some African Americans out to snatch up a quick buck.
N/A
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:59 am

How many of you people actually spoke to other Blacks about this issue?

What has that got to do with anything? I don't think my tax money should go to give money to people who are 150 years removed from slavery, who were never slaves themselves, and don't deserve a dime because of what happened to a distant ancestor. That's robbing the taxpayers blind to give a huge Welfare check to people who don't deserve it.
 
Superfly
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:26 pm

Again, how many of you people actually spoke to other Blacks about this issue?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:30 pm

Again, how many of you people actually spoke to other Blacks about this issue?

Again, Superfly, why does it matter? Even if I talk to any blacks about it, it won't change my mind one bit. People in 2002 should not be gettng my tax dollars for things that happened a century and a half ago.
 
Rai
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:34 pm

Again, how many of you people actually spoke to other Blacks about this issue?

Again, I did, and he agreed with me. Do you believe in reparations, Superfly?
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:45 pm

Why does it seem that the very same people that speak of bringing down the barrier between blacks and whites in this nation are the very same people who are proponents of this movement?

You think there's a division now??? Just wait until the "Reparations Deduction" shows up on some paychecks...

Talk about division.
 
N312RC
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:23 pm

Of course blacks will agree with reparations... It means money in their wallets.

Arms of my family could have been gassed by the Germans for all I know.. I havent seen a dime.
N/A
 
Guest

RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:32 pm

Maybe my views are too simplistic; but if they want reparations let them try to collect from England, France and Spain, not from the US government. We inherated slavery from those folks. As far as I'm concerned we fought a civil war to free them. What more reparations would they want? If it were to come to it, any reparation check would also come with a one-way ticket back to the motherland and the loss of U.S. citizenship.

 
Guest

RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:39 pm

Here's something else to think about: why would blacks want reparations to begin with?

Why wouldn't they? It's just FREE money. I'm totally against giving away money for nothing. Listen, that sounds harsh but hey, slavery is a dark part of our history. Yes, I said HISTORY. It's over and done with. Blacks now haven't suffered one bit. Yes, their brave ancestors did, but not them, so why should they get the money?
 
KCLE
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sat Oct 05, 2002 2:14 pm

I saw on the news a while back that a black woman was going to sue the CSX Railroad for reparations.

Um, the CSX railroad was not around 150 years ago, it was created 15 years ago, as a group of railroads merged together (the Family Lines and Chessie System for those train buffs out there). And those railroads formed out of mergers with other railroads (Family Lines-> L&N and SCL, ACL, and SAL, and Chessie System-> B&O, C&O, MA&PA, WM).

So, honestly, how does she expect to get money from a railroad that never existed in the time of slaves? Does she somehow believe that CSX has a time machine and went back in time, bought slaves, and brought them to the present to work on the railroad?

Do African-Americans deserve reparations? No. All racial, ethnic, or religious group has suffered some sort of cruel treatment.

Do I think many AFrican-Americans will recieve reparations? No. Why? Because it's as absurd as saying that Jewish people will start sueing Egypt because Egypt enslaved all of the Jews several thousand years ago.

(Very bad joke I just thought up: If the blacks are so sore about not getting reparations, maybe they should make an epic movie about their slavery in the US. Chareton Heston didn't fare too bad after making his epic movie on the slavery of the Jews in Egypt. I know, that joke wasn't funny, but it makes a point.)
 
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yyz717
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:18 am

Maybe my views are too simplistic; but if they want reparations let them try to collect from England, France and Spain, not from the US government.

Actually, slavery was only possible in the first place because African tribal leaders were only too willing to sell off their own people....so perhaps a big source of the reparations should come from.........black Africa.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
david b.
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:25 am


Actually, slavery was only possible in the first place because African tribal leaders were only too willing to sell off their own people....so perhaps a big source of the reparations should come from.........black Africa.


yes the white mans point of view....it makes it right for the white men to enslave people because tribes were willing to sell people or do you consider the white race incapable of wrong doing.
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seb146
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:27 am

I don't understand why I as second generation American (on my father's side) should pay anything. His parents immigrated from Germany before WWII. I could have family that was sent to prison camps but I am not asking for ANY money from Germany for the 'pain and suffering' caused by that. It was a horrible time in history but I am here and now.
On my mom's side of the family, there is Cherokee somewhere. (I know, I know... EVERY white person in the US is Cherokee.....) I don't see anyone suing for the Trail of Tears!
Again, let's live in the here and now. Get over it.

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manni
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:34 am

Sure! why not?
After all, big German companys have payed huge sums of money to the jews for the slavery work they did during WW2.
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david b.
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:41 am

But it is the same jews who were enslaved? Thats the point. Most American slaves are now long gone. If so, the German companies must pay the people who suffered not people like Seb who has never been a slave........I personally think that Reparationsfor 5th or even 8th generation is a bad idea. Same goes for the Jews suing.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Guest

RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:42 am

They will never see a fat cent off of me, that's all I am going to say.
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 3:18 am

It is interesting that we should see so many posts atempting to skirt the whole issue by questioning who should benefit and who should not. I think the question is clear, does some reparation for past wrongs need to be made or not ?

Surely the question of whom should benefit - if at all - from such an offer does nothing but distract us from the central question of yes or no !

The question is clear, is a government of today responsible for the actions of a government of yesterday. Me, I say yes they are because if not them then who ?

Nobody ???
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
srbmod
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 4:08 am

It would be quite hard to really determine if one has ancestry that can be traced back to slaves or former slaves. With the education level of most slaves being very limited, most didn't even know how to sign their names, and considering that birth certificates did not exsist back then (families put all that sort of info in the family Bibles), it would be hard to prove ancestry. Slave families were constantly being broken up, with members being sent to other farms and plantations, so one doesn't really know if their relatives really exsisted except by oral history. As for suing companies that either directly or indirectly relied on slavery or provided insurance to slave owners, the practices done by previous incarnations of the arms of companies were in line with the practices of the times. Yes railroads were built using slave labor, and yes slave owners did purchase insurance against slaves running away, these were common and acceptible practices prior to the Civil War. These are not practices these companies (and their successors) follow today. There is too much potential for fraud and misappropiation of reparations if they were to be enacted. Some people even say that we've done more than enough to repay for the evils of slavery. In a way, many blacks are still enslaved, but by their own choice. They would rather get supported by the government than to go out and prove the stereotypes that people have towards wrong. Blacks are still enslaving themselves because of stereotypes that they themselves are still perpetuating. One historical fact that seems to be forgotten is that the early slaves in the American colonies were white. Those that sought a new life in the Colonies and couldn't afford the trip usually entered indenture servitude to a wealthy family in the colonies for a set time period. You don't hear of anybody seek reparations for the indentured servants of the early years of English colonization.
 
Rai
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 4:20 am

If my memory of history class serves me correctly, Belgium's King Leopold II was particularly active in the slave trade. If that is case, then I'm all for reparations! Best to go after the source, right?

Any European's suggestion of Americans paying slave reparations is completely laughable, especially when the EU refuses to categorize Europe's role in the slave trade as a crime against humanity for the fear of having to pay slavery reparations themselves.
 
teva
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 5:03 am

I do not agree with individual reparations.
As many said, the victims are not here anymore.
However, if one day reparations are to be paid, the money has to go to Africa. And not only come from the USA, but also from all the European countries involved in this horrible "market".
Why ? Because we took the young workforce from Africa, making the development impossible.
And for those thinking as YYZ117 that:
"Actually, slavery was only possible in the first place because African tribal leaders were only too willing to sell off their own people...."
1) those tribal leaders were not the majority
2) Corruption has always existed
3) If they were selling, it is because there were buyers
Teva
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Barcode
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 5:27 am

Like the majority - I think the entire thing is absurd. We hold no responsibility for the actions of our ancestors, and I do not feel that I owe anyone anything for what my great-great-grandparents may or may not have done.

It's ludicrous, it'd be like the Jews demanding recompense from the Germans now or me demanding compensation because members of my family suffered in WW2.

Thankfully, most reasonably intelligent and sane people see the absurdity of the situation. Frankly, I find it insulting that anyone should have to pay taxes towards something that does *not* affect the lives of black people nowadays.

It happened, civilization evolved - however, it seems the mentality of some people has not.
 
Superfly
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 5:40 am

N312RC:
Of course blacks will agree with reparations... It means money in their wallets.


You're insinuating that every Black person is in favor of reparations. That's an absurd statement. Even the biggest a$$kissing Toms (Alan Keyes & Clarence Thomas) that White conservatives love so much would be offended by that foolish comment.

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david b.
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 5:51 am

A typical white man's point of view.......watch when people say things that sterotype whites, they are the first to complain.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
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yyz717
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 5:59 am

As bad as slavery was, I fail to see how the current generation of black Americans today suffers from the results of slavery. Black America is an increasingly prosperous community that would rank as the world's 7th largest economy, based on the economic power & purchasing power of black Americans. The millions of middle-class and upper-class prosperous blacks in the world are found largely in the US (and the UK and Canada), certainly not in Africa.

Ironically, it's black Africa that remains mired with the world's worst poverty.....as African blacks have never been slaves......can you honestly tell me that these people are BETTER OFF than American blacks??????



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
manni
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:15 am

Rai,

if you had the intention to piss me of with your post (I assume you are reffering to Belgium because I'm Belgian  Big thumbs up) I have to dissapoint you. I can only agree with your first paragraph...  Innocent
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flight152
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:27 am

The same people saying that Americans are "sue happy" are now saying they deserve slavery reperations. Intresting.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:41 am

yes the white mans point of view....it makes it right for the white men to enslave people because tribes were willing to sell people or do you consider the white race incapable of wrong doing.

David B, are you naive about EVERYTHING? The point was this: slavery was in large part due to the fact that blacks in Africa were willing to capture their own people and give them to white slave traders. That isn't a "white man's point of view", that's historical fact. So maybe the reparations should start with African governments, although I guess that would ruin the appeal for many blacks who themselves are racists.

Sure! why not?
After all, big German companys have payed huge sums of money to the jews for the slavery work they did during WW2.


Big difference, Manni in the two: the jews who were repaid were actually held by the Nazi's, and many of their family members were murdered by the Nazis. ALL off the people wanting money for slavery were never held captive themselves. Big, big difference.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:16 am

Theres a diffrence between the blacks and the jews. First many of the direct descendents (or the people themselves, if they survived) are or were still alive. Also thanks to the excellent German record keeping its rather easy to find who employed whom.

While compared to the black slavery, first not everyone owned slave, they weren't even in this country. Second all that remains in the oral history. Third even if it could be verfied the desendents are 5-6 generations old, whats the point, no one directly suffered from it, heck would they rather be in Africa now(chances are thats where most would be if they familes weren't enslaved)?

Slavery was a dark chapter in American history, but its in the past now, the world has or at least should have moved beyond it. Its time to think of the future, no wallow in the past.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Rai
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:22 am

if you had the intention to piss me of with your post (I assume you are reffering to Belgium because I'm Belgian ) I have to dissapoint you. I can only agree with your first paragraph...

No, Manni. I am just stating an example. King Leopold II was especially brutal when it came to the slave trade. There are plenty of other examples and not all of them are from Belgium. As for the second paragraph in my previous post, I suggest you look up that failed UN racism conference in South Africa. The EU proposed to appologize for their involvement in the slave trade, but refused to consider it a crime against humanity for the sole purpose of avoiding reparations.
 
Hepkat
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:42 am

FYI, many of the colonial masters kept excellent records of their slave tradings. I've heard that to this day it's still possible to read and research the archives in Spain detailing where they got their slaves and where they were eventually transported.

Remember, slaves were a very important economical commodity to the colonial powers. Europe today wouldn't be half as rich were their economies not driven by the slave trade and the looting of the Americas, so it's no surprise to learn that they DID keep records of their activities. Finding those records, however, is another story altogether.
 
david b.
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:31 am

Ironically, it's black Africa that remains mired with the world's worst poverty.....as African blacks have never been slaves......can you honestly tell me that these people are BETTER OFF than American blacks??????

So your satying thats its OK??????


Yes Alpha its a white men's point of view, saying that it is the fault of Africans and not the whites. Just because someone gives you a gun means you shoot someone? Slavery, was in part due the whites........
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david b.
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:34 am

yes the white mans point of view....it makes it right for the white men to enslave people because tribes were willing to sell people or do you consider the white race incapable of wrong doing.

yes the white mans point of view....it makes it right for the white men to enslave people because tribes were willing to sell people or do you consider the white race incapable of wrong doing.

NO ALPHA, I did not say the latter. Dont put words in my mouth.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
david b.
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:50 am

So maybe the reparations should start with African governments, although I guess that would ruin the appeal for many blacks who themselves are racists.

You really feel that way? oh yea, you dont know any black people. I forgot.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Pendrilsaint
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:50 am

This is really quite hard for me to admit , its a bit of a family thing that we dont share too much...but we have done quite a bit of geneology and found that some of my ancestors...one in particular...owned a rather large plantation on coastal North Carolina during the 17 and 1800's...Now , today , I am a fairly liberal, open minded person. I think slavery was a horrible thing, but it happened , dont dwell on it , move on. I am not my ancestors , I have not enslaved any living african american , nor would I ...I feel that I should never have to pay for a crime I didnt commit...the sins of the father do not carry to the son...Im sorry but the entire idea of reparations is silly...
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:52 am

So your satying thats its OK??????

God, you're naive. No, that's not what he is saying. He's saying that all these "African Americans" grabbing for reparations should realize that they have it better than probably 75% of the people in the world-their distant relatives in Africa included.

Yes Alpha its a white men's point of view, saying that it is the fault of Africans and not the whites.

Yes, you are that naive. It is not ALL the fault of the Africans who captured their bretheren-they were compensated, because there WAS a demand for slaves in the west. The point-again, David B-was that many of these people
who ended up over here might not have had their own kind sold them down the river to White slave owners.

yes the white mans point of view....it makes it right for the white men to enslave people because tribes were willing to sell people or do you consider the white race incapable of wrong doing.

NO ALPHA, I did not say the latter. Dont put words in my mouth.


David, since I didn't even say that to you, how the hell am I am putting words into you mouth?





 
david b.
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:54 am

Pendrilsaint, personally i think that it is good to know about your family history no matter how dark it may be.......Unlike some people, you dont put the blame on other people.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
david b.
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 10:00 am

It is not ALL the fault of the Africans who captured their bretheren-they were compensated, because there WAS a demand for slaves in the west.

Yes and who's fault was that? and you call me naive  Yeah sure

I dont agree with reparations but people in the US are better off then people in 90% of the world....so what?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
UALfa@jfk
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:03 am

N312RC:
Of course blacks will agree with reparations... It means money in their wallets.

Superfly responds:
You're insinuating that every Black person is in favor of reparations. That's an absurd statement. Even the biggest a$$kissing Toms (Alan Keyes & Clarence Thomas) that White conservatives love so much would be offended by that foolish comment.


Superfly, most of the white members here have a VERY hard time looking at blacks as INDIVIDUALS, each with our INDIVDUAL beliefs, values, thoughts, and actions. We continue to be perceived as a monolithic group of people. You, me, and every other of the twelve million black Americans surely ALL must think the same because we are the "same" (at least in their eyes). They cannot help this way of thinking since they personally do not know more than one or two token black people. This explains why I still get followed around stores because I *must* be a shoplifter since "all" blacks are prone to stealing. This explains why New York cabbies always bypass me because they think I'll jump out without paying. In short, ALL BLACKS ARE THE SAME. So, logically, we must ALL be in favor of reparations. Right?

Let it be known to every white man, woman, and child on earth: That this black guy isn't hoping, needing, or wishing for any of your "red pennies," nor will I ever. And NO other rationally sane black person that I know is seriously pursuing "reparations" either. I'm not sure what you people are assuming, but reparations isn't even talked about in most black circles.

All of you who, for some reason, think there's even a remote possibility that slavery reparations will become a policy issue, are living in a naive dream world that defies description. You need to relax.

This whole "sky is falling" thread is such a non-issue. --Reparations will never really happen, and most black people aren't even fixated on it. And if you're an average taxpaying white person, you shouldn't be fixated on it either.


 
hartsfieldboy
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RE: Slavery Reparations?

Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:18 pm

Random thoughts on the subject:

Does anyone know about the Ex Post Facto clause in the constitution? You can't make a law retroactive. While slavery was very wrong, it was LEGAL back then. You can't sue someone for something that is illegal now when it was legal in the past. Maybe I should sue Ford for not having airbags in my old 1990 Ford Tempo (RIP), because cars are required to have them now. Automatic seatbelts are illegal now, my Tempo had them, so I was obviously held down from using the car to its full potential (a whole 83 mph!  Smile) because of the fear of getting into a wreck and getting killed. While I'm at it, I'm suing Adam and Eve's descendants for causing war, poverty, and retards to infest the earth.

Since when have handouts been beneficial to anyone? The only welfare programs that actually work are the ones where the recipient is required to learn job skills or other similar stuff in order to receive their check. How many lottery winners have you heard of that used their earnings to start a business and are now making much more money than what they got from the lottery? Absolutely none. Did you know that 1/3 of all lottery winners go BANKRUPT? That's just pathetic. There is NO reason to think the situation will be different when someone receives a reparation check.

On my mom's side, I'm a first generation American, on my Dad's side, I'm a who-the-fuck-knows generation American, how much money should I give?

How can anyone take Jonnie Cochran and Jesse Jackson seriously when they talk about how blacks are disadvantaged while they have $100 bills overflowing from their pockets? And if you believe that they are sticking up for those who don't have a voice, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you might like to buy.

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