Alpha 1
Topic Author
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Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:58 am

Couldn't happen to a nicer team! For once, George Steinbrenner couldn't buy a World Championship. Must be hard on those Yankee fans to have only won 28 Titles.

The Anaheim Angels just destroyed the Yankees pitching. No tears here!!

 Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:03 am

woooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooo I'm so glad they lost!  Big thumbs up
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
Guest

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:04 am

Great! Now the playoffs will be interesting to watch for once! I just hope the Diamondbacks survive!  Big thumbs up
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:07 am

This is the best news of the baseball season!  Big thumbs up
 
Alpha 1
Topic Author
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:08 am

Don't worry, National757, the Diamondbacks won't come back against the Cardinals.  Big grin
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:11 am

I'm contacting Hepkat so I can suggest this thread for deletion.

Signed, George Steinbrener
 
Alpha 1
Topic Author
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:15 am

"Alpha 1

I think you need apologize to all New York Yankee fans, the way you offended them on this thread. It was very childish of you to do this, and if you keep it up, I may have to delete you. Grow up."

Hepkat
God of The Fourms

....deletion to follow shortly, since some poeple have no sense of humor.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:38 am

As I spent the day with the most beautiful woman in the world, not listening to the radio, someone please tell me the Yankees have been eliminated for sure. The D-Backs were dead before the playoffs began. I would love to see an Angels/Cardinals world series.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:56 am

THANK GOD!!  Smile  Big thumbs up

Although I'm not a baseball fan, I do watch some playoff games & am kinda sick of seeing the Yankees go all (or almost all) the way every year. Finally, some variety in the World Series! (variety meaning any AL team getting into the World Series other than the Yanks.)

DeltaRules
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
Guest

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:04 pm

Well looks like you were right Alpha 1, the Diamondbacks had no chance today. Oh well, B-ball season is starting soon, but with since the Bulls are my favorite team, it won't be all that exciting, lol  Laugh out loud
 
AC320
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:04 pm

I'm hereby ordering the contraction of the Angels, Twins, and A's. No way will I allow smaller market teams to do well in the post season against large market teams with $100 million payrolls. Why, that destorys my whole argument.

Signed,
Bud Selig
fuddle duddle
 
flyguy1
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:30 pm

For all the New Yorkers..
The Yankees lose, thhheeeee Yaannkeesss Loooossssseee Smile
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
767ALLTHEWAY
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 1:26 pm

From us in BOSTON...HELL YA..THIS IS THE BEST THING IN THE WORLD. The Angels coulndt save the Red Sox but they saved them selves...Its about time they watch a World Series instead of winning one or loosing one (thank u Diamondbacks) maybe next year the Curse of the Bambino will be broken and the Red Sox will win one??
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear"
 
KRIC777
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 1:31 pm

I'm hereby ordering the contraction of the Angels, Twins, and A's. No way will I allow smaller market teams to do well in the post season against large market teams with $100 million payrolls. Why, that destorys my whole argument.

I appreciate the humor in your post Bud, er, AC320, and I don't mean to split hairs, but I don't think we can include the Angels in that comment, since they're contained within the L.A. media market, which is, you know, kind of a BIG market.  Smile

GO ANGELS !!!!!!

PS -- for those that remember the '86 ALCS....they said during the Angel-Yankee game today that the daughter of the late Donnie Moore cannot bring herself to watch any of the Angels' playoff games because of the way fans treated her father after he gave up that late-game hit (was it a HR...I can't remember?) to Dave Henderson of the Red Sox which eventually cost them what would have been their only trip to the World Series. Moore later comitted suicide after years of depression after that game. Very sad.
 
KLAX
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:05 pm



 Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin
GO ECKSTEIN! Big grin Big grin

POWERFUL PUNCH PACKIN' PERCIVAL! Big grin Big grin Big grin


This made my day. Yankees Suck, Angels Own. Nuff' Said'
I'm glad I got to see at least one Angels game this summer in LA. Angels-Red Sox. Good Fun. Percy is one hell of a pitcher. Big grin

-Clovis

Time to get out the rally monkey Big grin
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:42 pm

Frenchie, don't EVEN try and get on the Angels bandwagon, knowing you are a Dodger fan.
 
KLAX
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:56 pm

Dude, whenever I mention the L.A. Dodgers, it is out of pure sarcasm. The Dodgers SUCK They got the whackest stadium, the whackest players, (Piazza is gone) and a fan base made up of illegal immigrants from Mexico who dont know the difference between "safe" and "out", but only go to games for the simple reason that Dodger Stadium happens to be smack dab in the middle of one of LAs most hispanic areas. I never root Dodgers buddy. The only LA team that I support are the Los Angeles Lakers.

-Clovis
 
boeingnut
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:14 pm

nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah!

say hey hey

GOOD BYE!!!
Excuse me, but what does God need with a starship?
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:40 pm

Frenchie, you had a picture of you in your profile, with a DODGERS hat on. Stop fronting.
 
donder10
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:43 pm

HAHAH Clovis.The Dodgers have no team spirit either.Well,they just plain suck really.
 
KLAX
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 10:16 pm

The Dodgers hat was used because it had LA on it. Gotta Represent at School. It has since been replaced by this:

Besides, I'm a basketball player, and a baseball fan.

-Clovis Big grin
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 10:53 pm

Knowing you're a Clippers fan.  Insane


 Big grin
 
Guest

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:26 pm

My favorite part was the lynching of George Stienbrenner effigies at Anahiem Stadium. I couldn't have said it better myself.

'Speed
 
Guest

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:30 pm

Ahh,

Nothing [hangs] like an effigy.

Signed,
Homer Simpson
 
jcxp15
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:52 pm

I have a question for all of you... How do you think the Yankees buy their World Series? In case none of you noticed, you need $$$ to buy things. Money does not grow on trees. I'm so sick of hearing people rant about how the Yankees buy everything. In case you haven't noticed, Yankee games are usually more than 75% full. This year, they exceeded 3 million people for a season, more than any other team in the majors. You people jump on the "playoff" we hate the Yankees bandwagon when it is convenient for you all. At least in NYC, the Yankees have their fans backing them the whole season. Do you know that when the Yankees came into your home team's town usually the games were sold out? The Yankees helped you earn even more $$ for your team.

It took Steinbrenner almost 2 decades to build up the Yankees to the level they've been at for the last 7 years. They went from being last to first. You all are so hypocritical of the Yankees. How many of you turn down higher paying jobs just because you don't want the extra money? In the end it just comes down to jealousy. You people who knock the Yankees are jealous that the Yankees are the "winning-est" sports franchise around.
I'm a die hard Yankee fan, but the Angels definately did deserve to win the series. The yankees didn't look like they had their heads on straight, and I really don't think pitching was the problem. I think the Yankees pitching was alright, I don't think the method of how they went about pitching was right though. The pitches were all there for the most part, but when a player can foul off 15 pitches, he's eventually gonna get something to hit. It's a great strategy for the Angels, and if they can continue playing the way they did against the Yankees, I firmly believe they will win the World Series.
 
Alpha 1
Topic Author
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:40 am

Jxcp15, you think we're gonna cry with you on this one? Forget it! Do you REALLY believe that having 75% of their games full is how they afford a $140 million payroll? Try the fact that that they have the largest local TV contract in the Majors. I can't remember the figure,but I thought I heard that they pull in like $80 million A YEAR from LOCAL TV deals!! Know how much the Expos local TV deal pulls in for them a year? 1 Million. So it has nothing to do with home attendance. The Indians drew 3 million a year for like 6 seasons, and they never had more than a $90 million payroll, because they don't generate TV revenue the way the Yankees do.

And we don't just hate the Yankees because it's convenient. We hate them because we get tired of seeing them win EVERY YEAR. I mean, they've only won 28 Championships. I know that's tough for you Yankee fans to deal with such misery, but for the rest of us, we're glad to see the Bronx Bombers lose any time. The could never win another game, and they've won too many.

And, personally, I'm glad the Yankees get nailed hard under the new Collective Barganing Agreement. Maybe it will mean that from now on, the Yankees won't be in half the World Series every decade. That would be welcome indeed.
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:53 am

Hey Yankee Fan. Let Mets Fan break it down for you...

The Yankees "buy there" team for many..many reasons. Here are but a few. George S. is willing to spend the MOST money. When he spends mroe than anyone else, and still loses, he just spends more. The Yankees have greater revenue than other teams, because of their psuedo popularity. No other team has a 100 plus million T.V. deal (in part because the Yankees own the network). Yes, the Yankees, do home grow their own players in the minors. Jeter, Posado, good scouting for Soriano, ect. Thing is, the Yanks can throw around money to keep these players in the minors to "develop". They can hand out huge signing bonuses (and yes, most teams try too, I know, but most teams cannot match the Yankees money). Now, to wrap this up, lets look at the Yankees moves this year.

Sign Giambi. 120 million. Nobody was going to match or top that.

Raul Mondesi. They did not need this guy, yet they got him, because they could. Didn't cost'em anything other than 7 million.

Jeff Weaver. They did not need this guy either. They traded for another teams ace, and gave up more or less nothing to get him, but they can easily pay his 4 or 6 million salary.

Rondell White. Only the Yankees were going to give this guy 10 million plus incentives for 2 years. Dude hasn't played a full season since Matt D last had a relationship with a woman, and has spent more time on the DL than the rest of the Yankees combined.

Plain and simple. The Yankees make more money, so they can spend more money, and spare me the 3 million fan thing, because in 98 while the Yankee's were winning games at a record pace, they couldn't sell out the Stadium for anything. They were nowhere near 3 million. The NY Fan base is no different than any other fan base in the country. When the team wins, they have all their fans (although the late 90's Yankees seem to disprove this). Hell, the NY Mets not only have to compete in their league, but they have to compete for the NYC fans as well. The Mets spent a ton of money this year just to keep up (even though that went horribly wrong). No other team has the cash flow like the Yankees do, to address "whatever needs" they have at anytime of the year. There was a reason why the Yankees were the only team not to sign the new collective bargining agreement............


 
Guest

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:55 am

Hehehehe, the Mets. Big grin
 
jcxp15
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:03 am

KROC:

Obviously, you're not a true Mets fan, because your whole payroll argument is flawed. Why don't you look up the Mets payroll, compare it to the Yankees' and then see why just having money will not buy you wins, yet smart decisions do....
It's all about making the right decisions.
Weaver was not picked up necessarily for this or even next year, but as Clemens and Wells retire, he will step in as a key started.
Mondesi held so many runners to singles when with any other team they would have been doubles. Sure, his hitting was atrocious, but if he can work things out (i.e. not trying to pull every single ball) the 7 mil will be inconsequential to the results he produces.
Rondell White: KROC, care to look up how long he was on the DL this year? His numbers were horrible, as were Mondesi's, but could we maybe say it was attributed to a bad season. We'll have to take next year as a deciding factor on White.

Also, for all you idiots who say the Yankees buy their way to the World Series, look at how many "home-grown" yankees are stars: Jeter, Soriano, Johnson, Bernie the list goes on to hopefully one day include players like Juan Rivera, Drew Henson... These players were not bought.
Also, why is the Yankees who always buy their way to the World Series. First off, the Red Sox have or had the highest payroll in baseball, and look how great they did. Second off, who set the stage for the big $100 million dollar contracts? Last time I checked that team wasn't doing too hot either.

Have you ever considered that perhaps the Yankees have every right to go out and do what they feel is best for their team? If they have $100 million sitting around and want to sign a free agent, should they say "well we really shouldn't sign him, and let him go to another team, just so things can be fair? or will they say "this guy is gonna help us win.. let's take him"?

What ever happened to the laws of supply and demand? About the TV contract. If people want to see the Yankees then local cable companies will pay to broadcast the games. Case in point: Cablevision. They decided not to carry the Yankee games, and lost a significant amount of customers (backed up by several Cablevision employees) who switched to DirectTV. If the Mets were to have done the same thing, would as many people switch? No, because no one really watches the Met games.

Alpha 1:

I'm not asking you to cry with me. I think the Angels deserved to win the series, and the Yankees have no real excuse for losing except for the fact they were outplayed. But, you have to understand the laws of supply and demand. People want to see the Yankees, therefore they can net much more money than teams who don't draw as much of a fan crowd, enabling them to make better pay decisions. It's that simple. Yankees merchandise sells everywhere, even abroad. Not too often you hear of people wanting to buy Expos hats outside of Montreal (except for fashion). Look how many people the Expos draw to their home games. It's pathetic. No one in Montreal really gives a damn about them. Now, should the Yankees be penalized for the lack of interest in 2nd rate teams?
Baseball ownership today has become more of a "status symbol" in that the principle owners a lot of times have no clue on what type of decisions to make to better their ballclub and really have no business operating a team, rather use the team for their personal enjoyment. Baseball has grown too rapidly. IMHO teams such as the Devil Rays, Rockies, Expos, Brewers (and I don't see anyone bitching about the Brewers getting loads of money thanks to selig for a new stadium) even existing.

Bottom line is still jealousy. People are jealous that the Yankees can afford (b/c of good business decisions) to go out and spend millions of dollars, and wish their team could do the same, and then they get even more mad when the Yankees play their team in crucial games, and beat them, not b/c they have a greater payroll, but b/c they outplayed the other team. (I'm saying this in general, obviously they lost this year, b/c they were outplayed).
Why does no one bitch about the Mets' and Red Sox payrolls? They are comparable to the Yankees, yet they can't seem to "buy" their way to the World Series.. huh?
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:48 am

KROC:

Obviously, you're not a true Mets fan, because your whole payroll argument is flawed. Why don't you look up the Mets payroll, compare it to the Yankees' and then see why just having money will not buy you wins, yet smart decisions do....


Don't talk about what you don't know. I rip the Mets, their payroll, AND their decisions on a daily basis. How would that make me a "true" fan anyway?

If the Mets were to have done the same thing, would as many people switch? No, because no one really watches the Met games.

Another quality statement from someone who probably defines the term front runner. How do you know that nobody watches the Met's games? I suppose the 2.5 mil in attendance was a figment of our imaginations. I'm sure that Mets games would be carried on T.V. even though "nobody watches them".

Dude, I'll reply more later, if I can find something valid in your post.
 
AC320
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:55 am

jcxp15, you know nothing about the Montreal situation, so I suggest you leave it alone.
fuddle duddle
 
CMK10
Posts: 1826
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:10 am

As a yankee fan its a crushing blow and a smack to the face, but this is what happens when you have shotty pitching.
Oh and Alpha 1 The Yanks have 26 World Champion Titles, not 28
DC-10's Forever
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
McRingRing
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:31 am

LMAO!!! The Yankees got their ass beat. So much for "smart decisions."  Insane

I have a feeling they don't even care anymore. Everyone on the team has already won a few times. They've got nothing to play for, no heart. They can all take their inflated paychecks and buy a nice new tv to watch real teams with real fans play in the World Series.
B==============) ~~~~
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:38 am

AC320:

Why don't you explain the Montreal situation then? Is there really much more to it than they can't draw crowds, which means people really don't care, which means they don't have enough $$ to draw big name players and many big name players don't even want to play for the Expos? The Expos couldn't even draw 1M fans, let alone 900,000. Although their attendance is up from last year, 812,000 fans aren't gonna get you a good ballclub. Honestly, what the Expos should do, is move their team out of that horrible stadium in Canada, and move it somewhere in the US, rename the tean, and hopefully draw more of a fan base.


KROC:

You said in the above post "let a mets fan tell you" and then you went on to say how the Yankees bought the World Series b/c Steinbrenner buys anything he wants. Obviously, you cannot buy a "world series" because if you could, the Mets and the Red Sox would be right up there with the Yankees. You have to credit Brian Cashman for making smart decisions over the past few years. Money is good, but if you don't know how to manage it (i.e. the mets, rangers, red sox) it won't do you any good. The Mets sucked this year, and even though they drew somewhere in the ballpark of 2.8M fans they could not produce anything for their fans to be proud of. Also, I would not mind seeing some TV viewers figures comparing how many ppl watched the Yankee games on TV and how many watched the mets. Combine stadium attendance with TV viewership, and I would imagine the Yankees would be way ahead of the Mets. Don't get me wrong, I think the Mets have great potential ahead of them, once they can free up their salary base, but they need to make smart choices, (i.e. no Mo Vaugh for Appier). I personally would get rid of Wilpon, and start anew. Valentine is definately not the one to blame. Mike Lupica, I believe it was, in his column about how Joe Torre would be in the same position as Valentine after such a season wrote something to the extent of maybe if Wilpon had made the announcement before a game, the mets would have been able to fill every seat. How often do you make it down to the Met games from Rochester? How often do you watch them? I assume you have a satelite which receives MSG and WB11, since those are the channels the Mets play on and you're such a true fan. The fact of the matter is, the Yankees are NY's team, primarily b/c they have been doing so well, along with their long history, which draws a lot of the front runners. Front runners do not watch 130+ games a season like I have. They watch it occasionally, know some of the player's names, and take it as is. They're the ones who buy the box seats or get the playoff tickets, while true fans such as I are left watching at home. I've been with the Yankees from the late 80's, when they sucked, to now, so don't talk about stuff you honestly have no clue about, especially not even living in or around the NYC area.
I guarantee you if the Mets started their own network, and Time Warner, or Cablevision decided not to carry it, there would not be as many people switching over to dish just for the met games. You'd have the true fans, and maybe some people who like watching them occasionally. When Cablevision decided not to carry the Yanks, it became a huge controversy.. they even had cablevision employees on Mike and the Mad Dogg and has statistical analysis etc... I guarantee you if the mets were in the same boat, there wouldn't have been so much controversy.

BTW - Dude, i'm lookin forward to your reply  Smile

 
jcxp15
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:41 am

Mcringring:

Are you an idiot? If getting into the playoffs for the last 7 years and winning 4 World Championships is not comprised of smart decisions, then I don't know what is...
 
McRingRing
Posts: 1028
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:45 am

Did I stutter or something? Get the nuts out of your eyes and read the post again.
B==============) ~~~~
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:02 am

Jcxp15, once again you demonstrate your ignorance regarding this situation. I'll post what I've said before about this:

The Expos saga began on May 27, 1968 when Major League Baseball awarded two new expansion franchises: San Diego, and Montreal. As the 1969 season begins, baseball sees the first Expos team take to the field and beat the Mets at Shea 11-10 on April 8. They then go on to play their first home game against the Cardinals at Jarry Park, a minor league stadium expanded to serve as home for the team until a better location can be found. 29,184 excited fans watch the Expos win 8-7. The fun doesn’t stop there, a mere 2 weeks into their major league play, the Expos win their first no-hitter as Bill Stoneman whacks the Phillies 7-0 (he would earn his second no-hitter Oct 2 1972 against the Mets).

The team continued to win the hearts of Montrealers through 1972 when in September the team sees their fist season of contention for a post-season berth: Pennant fever. April 15, 1977 was a big turning point in the history of the Expos as they move into the infamous Olympic Stadium to a crowd of 57,592. Through the late 70’s the team plays admirably, drawing large crowds and remaining in contention right through till the end. The teams high point comes Oct 10, 1981 when the team wins their first National League East division title, but finds their hopes come crashing down on the infamous “Blue Monday” of Oct 19, when Rick Monday hits a 9th inning game-ending home run to give the Dodgers the NLCS and ending the Expos’ hopes of a world series.

The beginning of the 1990’s saw the first inkling of trouble as new ownership came on board. However, any bad feelings were over-shadowed by the thrill of 1994 season, as the Expos were untouchable and well on their way to winning it all. It would be the crowning moment of baseball in Montreal. Then the strike ended the season and the hopes of the team and fans for the next 8 years. When the team began play in 1995, it was not the Expos everyone knew and loved. It was a ghost, a shell, a shadow of its former self. The ownership had dumped star talent like Larry Walker, and John Wetteland for minor-league prospects. The team began a long journey to nowhere, not contending, merely hovering. Fans howled at this betrayal and spoke; with their feet. Attendance began dropping, the fire sales of talent continued, and the team was for all practical purposes rowing with just one oar.

A little while back a saviour seemed to come and part the waters of the St. Lawrence for Expos fans in Montreal. A man named Jeffery Loria became the controlling partner of the team, owning 24% of it, and promising an end to the fire sales, a come back for the team, and a downtown ballpark everyone had been dreaming of. The roof long ago broke for Olympic Stadium, it was old, out-dated, never intended for baseball and in totally the wrong area to continually attract fans, it was a giant tomb for baseball. The fans were excited; it was standing room only for the home opener. Baseball was apparently saved in Montreal. Loria even purchased an option on prime land downtown for a ballpark, began drawing up plans and securing funding. Montreal soon realized it could have a beautiful downtown stadium for $200 million Canadian, seating around 38,000, open-air with a view of the city skyline. Loria soon showed his true colors, destroying and stabbing in the back any media connections the team had, demanding more money from them for a product he had yet to fully restore confidence in, he authorized dumb trades for our top prospects and talent, he let the ballpark plan die when he almost had all the funding secured. Once again, Montreal and its fans were stabbed in the back by baseball as Loria ran the team into the ground, then through some shady dealings with Selig, diluted the other shareholders almost 75% ownership of the team to something around 10-20% of the Florida Marlins as he sold the Expos to MLB and bought the Marlins.

All this brings us to this season, The Expos are owned by MLB with the threat of relocation hanging over us. Everyone says it’s the end, you suck, you’re pathetic, don’t even try, the end is here. Despite this attendance is up about 20% over last season, the biggest increase increase in the majors, we are only last in attendance because Loria convinced some sap to purchase 15,000 tickets and not use them after our final game figures were revealed and giving the Marlins a 1,000 seat lead and 29th place. In our "lame duck season" we finished in 2nd place with more attendance than anyone ever would have figured for us. 75,000 signatures have been collected to keep the team in Montreal, and pledges recieved for over 7,500 sets of season tickets for 2003 (we had only 1,000 sets for this season), politicians are beginning to come aboard, where a current plan to build a new ballpark has the goverment loaning $100 million to jump start the plan. People are saying "We want our Expos". They are not some recent expansion team, they've been here over 30 years and have a true history to them. We hope the current projects underway will draw out investors who are interested, but unsure of the doom and gloom coming from MLB.

What we are in now is a slump, every team has one once in a while. Atlanta and Cleveland have had ones and it is a perfectly correctable situation.

It can work again. Montreal has been a good home to baseball in the past and it still can be. When 35,000 fans+ can show up for opening days and special events, it shows the fan base is there, the people can come if they are given reason to. The fact the team could break 800,000 in total attendance for the year is remarkable considering everyone and their mothers telling people not to even bother, that it’s over. All that is required is responsible ownership, who could properly manage and maintain the team. Combined with the downtown ballpark, Montreal could be one of the jewels of MLB, the city offers every demographic and quality that could make baseball succeed. All we fans can do is hope the local ownership comes through, that the lawsuit filed against Selig by the former minority shareholders plays out, that next year we can give more people a reason to come and watch baseball again, and we must endure the taunts of a media and “fans” who will not see the bigger picture. Imagine the heart break of losing your favourite team, especially when you know that can have a bright future ahead of them.

By the way a fan wrote a nice song that's been getting airplay on Montreal radio, sure it sounds all doom and gloom but that's because it was written back in January when we didn't have as many positive things on the horizon: http://www.chom.com/audio/EXPOSm.mp3

fuddle duddle
 
AC320
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:07 am

and Exhibit B an article from a sports station that has usually been quite negative to Montreal http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/story/10336251642498.shtml?sport=baseball&association=mlb&STORY_OID=10336251642498

Now wasn't this thread about the Yankees?
fuddle duddle
 
Guest

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 7:21 am

"You people jump on the "playoff" we hate the Yankees bandwagon when it is convenient for you all."

In truth, I hate the Yankees all year long.

'Speed
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:43 am

To Yankee Fan, pay attention here.

You said in the above post "let a mets fan tell you" and then you went on to say how the Yankees bought the World Series b/c Steinbrenner buys anything he wants. Obviously, you cannot buy a "world series" because if you could, the Mets and the Red Sox would be right up there with the Yankees

And my reply from my FIRST post.....

The Mets spent a ton of money this year just to keep up (even though that went horribly wrong).

Anyway, Cashman has made good decision yes, but that is not a touch thing to do when you have a blank check.

The Mets sucked this year, and even though they drew somewhere in the ballpark of 2.8M fans they could not produce anything for their fans to be proud of.

Yeah, the Mets sucked this year, and they STILL had 2.8 million people attend games. Even though they did not have a quality product on the field, the fans still supported the team. Something Yankee Fan did not do in the 80's and early 90's. Hell, even when they were winning titles early on in their streak. Oh, and what does comparing attendance and TV viewership have to do with anything? The Yankees clearly have more fans, that is not in dispute.

Oh, and this is classic. How would you "get rid of Wilpon"? It's not like the SOLE ONWER of the team can be fired. Next.

Valentine was to blame, just as Steve Phillips was. Valentine lost the team, an Phillips made some poor moves. The Robby trade was great, he just had a bad year. Most of the other moves were questionable.

Mike Lupica. Lupica is about as big a Yankee Front Runner ERRRRRRRRRR supporter as there is in the media, so he is far from a fair and objective source.

I have no idea what the relevance is in wanting to know how many Met games I make it to a year, but I went to Shea for the first time last year, for a weekend series against the Braves (the first weekend of ball after 9-11). And before you start, Crapchester is a 6.5 hour drive, add in high ass hotel costs, and the fact it was the first year I was back since I had joined the Air Force at 19, my chance to get there wasn't too well. This year I went to Cleveland (v Mets) for a game, and I caught a weekend series in Philly(v Mets). As for watching them, I have cable. I get MSG and WPIX and one other channel that carries the games. I easily watch 100-120 games a year or more. I tend to miss day games during the week, and the West Coast night games during the week. I watch them whether they suck, or whether they are great.

The fact of the matter is, the Yankees are NY's team, primarily b/c they have been doing so well, along with their long history, which draws a lot of the front runners. Front runners do not watch 130+ games a season like I have. They watch it occasionally, know some of the player's names, and take it as is. They're the ones who buy the box seats or get the playoff tickets, while true fans such as I are left watching at home. I've been with the Yankees from the late 80's, when they sucked, to now, so don't talk about stuff you honestly have no clue about, especially not even living in or around the NYC area.

Dude, nobody is saying that the Yankees are not "NY's" team. They have more history, but in the mid 80's when the Yankees sucked, and the mets were doing well (especially in 86) the Mets were NY's team. That goes both ways. The Yankees have more front running fans than anyone. It is not just in NYC. When I am in a mall in Sacramento, and they have 45 different color Yankee hats at the Footlocker....something is wrong. As for judging you, you're right there. My bad. But looking at your age.....16-20, chances are, you don't exactly remember the futile Yankees that could not buy a win. Oh, and not living in or around the NYC area has absolutly nothing to do with my baseball and fan base knowledge. Pure fact.

I guarantee you if the Mets started their own network, and Time Warner, or Cablevision decided not to carry it, there would not be as many people switching over to dish just for the met games. You'd have the true fans, and maybe some people who like watching them occasionally. When Cablevision decided not to carry the Yanks, it became a huge controversy.. they even had cablevision employees on Mike and the Mad Dogg and has statistical analysis etc... I guarantee you if the mets were in the same boat, there wouldn't have been so much controversy.

Nobody had to switch to Satellite, to see the Yankees. No matter what you may have thought, the Yankees were going to be on T.V. I have no problem with them creating there own 100 million cash cow ERRRRRRRRR network, but when that KILLS the competitive balance in baseball, then there is a problem. As for your continuing to compare the Mets and Yankees, that is like comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare two teams in the same city, when one team finishes first, one finishes last or does not have a prolonged winning streak like the Yankees. So in all seriousness, you need to stop using the Mets to try and justify the fact the Yanks season ending payroll was over 130 million.



 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:07 am

Mcringring:

No you did not stutter, and yes, I went back and re-read the post, and the latter post you made, really makes no sense. You see, you said "LMAO!!! The Yankees got their ass beat. So much for "smart decisions."
I countered that with "If getting into the playoffs the last 7 years and winning 4 World Championships is not comprised of making smart decisions, then I dunno what is". This basically means your post made no sense, since the Yankees have been the most successful ballclub in the past 7 years, and it is not just because they have money, but because they have made the correct moves. I hope this clears things up for you.
As far as the part about having no heart in the game, I care to differ. Just because Major League Athletes play baseball for a living, and get paid handsomly at that, does not mean they do not want to win. The Yankees last year, and last world series, had already for 4 WC in 7 years, and you can not say they did not have heart (i.e. Martinez's and Brosius' HR's in the bottom of the 9th against Kim). Playing with everything they had until the end really shows heart. It is not easy winning playoff games, as everyone makes it seem to the Yankees, and they were outplayed by a team. I do not understand why people cannot leave it at that, and move on.
What do people want the Yankees to do? Then Yankees come into town, and all of a sudden your stadium is filled to capacity for 3 games, and we usually give you a good series. Would you just like the Yankees to fold up, close up the most successful franchise in any sport with a history better than any other baseball team, so that your team can win? That is what does not seem fair...

AC320:

Point well taken. I applaud you taking the time to write that long passage. The strike in 1995 really did hurt the Expos, and most likely created the "hole" they are in today. Can the Expos come back? Sure, why not, but as you said it will take a lot of support, which I personally do not see right now. Montreal started off the season fairly well, but started lagging towards the end. IMHO the Expos really need to build up their minor league system, especially with the "no free agency" clause, if they were to take a few years to build up a good system, they would still have a couple years where few players would be eligible for free agency. One thing I believe can benefit the Expos is a relocation. There are plenty of areas in the US where the Expos could draw many more fans (esp with a new ballpark and all) than they currently do at Olympic. The people say "We want our Expos" but they also need to go out a bit more and support the team. Olympic stadium in itself is a horrible place from what I've seen on TV. It would be beneficial for the Expos to build a new stadium, but they would definately need major backing by Montreal, and the Expo fans too. This was a Yankee thread, but a "side track" such as this is not such a bad thing. I hope you did not take things said too personally, I have learned in the past year that internet boards are weird places, and people take this stuff way too seriously (judging by some of the posts I see in the non-aviation forum you would think a.net is what some people live for, and is their lives). The Expos got screwed, but if fans do not rally behind their team, no matter how bad they are, they simply will not get much better. Sure they might make the post-season a couple times, might make or even win the WS one season, but it will not be that type of "dynasty" teams such as the Yankees, Braves, Dodgers etc... have set.

 
AC320
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:23 am

Thanks for the reply. I think we are seeing the beggining of a resurgance of Expos support. with pledges for over 7,500 season tickets next year, a 75,000 name petition, and strong rumours of investors looking for governement support, it seems the people of Montreal are beginning to start a slow rally. It would be interesting to see if it can gather steam and if the against lawsuit plays out to our benefit. If the team stays together, plays well next year, and those 7,500 people honor their pledges we'll see 1 million in the stands for the year easy, more so if the investors step up to the plate before the season starts. It's going to be an interesting off-season
fuddle duddle
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:27 am

Too bad the Expos will be playing home games in Puerto Rico next year.
 
AC320
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:28 am

MLB sure loves leading the media around by the nose. Next they'll be playing on the moon
fuddle duddle
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:30 am

They would draw more fans on the moon, than they do in Montreal.
 
AC320
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:32 am

I'm not getting into this again with you KROC. You say they should go, I say they should stay, we're never going to agree so why don't we leave it alone and see what happens?
fuddle duddle
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:32 am

KROC:

Ways of disposing of Wilpon can be attained. If there was enough pressure on him, things would happen. As far as Valentine, I still do not believe he was the cause of a horrible season. Honestly, the Mets as a team seemed to lose it. Valentine took them to the WS before as a team, so I do not think any other manager would have faired a lot better.
As far as killing competitive balance in baseball. The Red Sox have a higher payroll (or it was higher) than the Yankees, how do they not kill competitive balance? The Mets' payroll is similar to the Yankees'.. how do they not kill competitive balance? Is it because the Yankees have made the right moves, which kills competitive balance? If the Yankees had finished the season around .500 and not made the playoffs, and this type of pattern was established, would people be complaining about how the Yankees were killing competitive balance? If the Mets all of a sudden start winning every year, is it fair for people to complain that the Mets are killing competitive balance? The mets would have worked their asses off to get back to the top, would it be fair for them to have to give a portion of their revenue to other teams whose owners many times have no business at the helms of a major league baseball team? People are mad that the Yankees have such a high payroll because they made good investment decisions, people around the country know them and like them because of their great history, but they're mad that they win. I find it perfectly acceptable to compare the payroll of 2 teams, one which wins and one which loses in trying to make a point that Money is not everything in baseball, but good investments as well as proper planning are as well. People think the Yankees have bought everything, but don't remember, many of the current Yankee members grew up in the Yankee organization. They were not bought. If having 6 players home grown is going to free up money (i.e. Soriano is still under the "no free agency" clause etc.. and even with arbitration will not get what he's worth) to go after a Giambi, then by all means, what's wrong with that?

Also, you cannot say the statement "the mets spent a lot of money this year to keep up" is a fair statement. If the Yankees were horrible, would the mets not have spent the same amount of money for the same players? Maybe they'd get in under in a few places, but besides that, I doubt it. The Mets have to do what's good for their team, and unfortunately the decisions they made, while not all that bad, didn't pan out.
As far as age goes, I do not remember the whole 80's, but I do remember the bad days. I remember the Yankees and how they sucked in the late 1980's and early 1990's. I remember that playoff with Seattle and all, when they were just beginning to turn things around.

Lupica's article actually was how Valentine's firing was "inevitable". He said that if Torre had been in his shoes, Torre would be gone too. You are correct, your evaluation of me being a "front runner" was false, as was my "attacking" you about not living in NYC and going to the games. I am sure if I moved somewhere other than the Tri-State area, I would not lose interest in the Yankees, although I would be pissed I could not go to many games.

As far as the Satellite TV thing goes... Every cable company except for Cablevision agreed to broadcast Yankee games as part of a standard package. If the Yankees would have allowed Cablevision to charge a premium rate, then every other cable company would have done the same, and it would have messed up a lot of things. The Yankees made a smart marketing decision by letting Cablevision do what they wanted to, because the die hard Yankee fans who had CV switched to Dish, those that watched the Yankees enough also switched to dish (which might I add is a better product than Cablevision's 1990's cable system).
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:43 am

You dont understand how angry I still am...I broke the TV remote by throwing it on the hardwood floor after they lost. The Yanks pitching was a joke, I am really not a Moose fan or Pettite fan, but I wouldnt be against trading those two in the off season for some better starters....Not to mention our middle relievers and setup men are jokes.

KROC, as for the Mets, c'mon, its not like the Mets are small market. I think that they would actually sell out many games if they built a new stadium and tore down the dump that is Shea Stadium (my least favorite stadium I have ever been to). KROC, one word for you....scoreboard (at least for the past 7 years).

This is actually really depressing...Now I cant see a Yankees game when I go to New York on Friday. At least I get to see Islanders opening night, which is more important to me than the Yankees.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
KROC
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RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:14 am

ACBeard. You are just fun to get all riled up. And easy as well. Relax potna.

As for Yankee Fan...word is out, and now there are two of you.

Yankee fan one, in the interests of saving time, I will not make anything in bold, rather just answer what I feel is necessary in your post. It may get jumbled, but bear with me.

Wilpon is not the NY Mets problem. If you think so, then I suggest you stick to talking about the Yankees, as you have a good knowledge base there. Also, Bobby Valentine was not the sole reason, BUT he lost the team. He could not motivate them, he lost the team, they would not play for him the way they were capable of. Sometimes a managerial change is needed just for something new, despite the manager doing a decent job. This was one of those times. Oh, and the 2000 Mets GROSSLY overachieved for Valentine that year. They were good, but played above there best for much of the season. 2001 proved that.

The Red Sox do not, and did not have a higer payroll than the Yankee$. The Yankees started out number 1, and finished even higher. TYhe Mets payroll while 35 to 40 mil less is still over 100 million, and horrible in my view. And here you go again, trying to compare the two teams, because you have nothing else to grasp. The Mets, while flashing big money made poor moves. The Yankees while flashing big money made the right ones (for the most part). Then again, with a blank checkbook, its not tough to make the right moves. As for your Yankee finished at .500 scenario, yes, there would be talk about competitive balance, because George would spend and spend until he had the winning combo on the field. If the Mets started winning (and here we go again) would be killing Comp. balance. They are part of it now, with 100 mil payroll. But if they start winning, it would depend on how they do it. When the Mets retooled this year, they did not add much payroll at all. Instead of spending and spending, they took in what they gave out for the most part. Does not make it better, but they also don't have a blank check to work with.

The mets would have worked their asses off to get back to the top, would it be fair for them to have to give a portion of their revenue to other teams whose owners many times have no business at the helms of a major league baseball team?

I had to do the bold, damnit, lol. That is a good point, but guess what, Montreal cannot generate the revenue the Yankees do, no matter who owns them. That is why rev. sharing is needed.

Oh, and the Mets are not paying out all the money they are, to prove that money is not everything in baseball. I told you, they are trying to keep up in their own city.

And I already addressed the home grown players. When you can offer the biggest signing bonuses and such, its easy to keep a player in the monors.

Yankee Fan two, aka Jcs.....in The Big D.

KROC, as for the Mets, c'mon, its not like the Mets are small market. I think that they would actually sell out many games if they built a new stadium and tore down the dump that is Shea Stadium (my least favorite stadium I have ever been to). KROC, one word for you....scoreboard (at least for the past 7 years).

I never said the Mets were small market. I do not understand where you guys are getting your arguments from. I like Shea Stadium, and the ONLY reason you are dogging it, is because you are a Yankee Fan. As for the Mets, scorboard, blah blah blah. I have already said the Mets suck. They have too big a payroll, and I hace criticised management. So your scoreboard is nothing but a Clone comment I will not put much stock into. I bet in the mid to late 80's you wern't running around a Yankee fan talking about "Scoreboard".

 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Bye Bye, New York Yankees!

Mon Oct 07, 2002 11:15 am

Actually KROC, I lived in Connecticut from 1988 to 1993, and that is when I became a Yankee fan. Not exactly the prime years. I grew up with the great Mel Hall, Roberto Kelly, and Gerald Williams in the outfield. My dad is a Mets (he grew up in Albany) fan and tried to influence me at a young age, I had none of that. Same goes for when I became involved in hockey before I moved to Connecticut, he wanted me to become a Rangers fan, I became an Islander fan shortly after we moved.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!

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