tbar220
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Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:21 pm

I just came across an idea which struck me. Somebody told me the reason that Arafat doesn't accept peace with the Israeli's is that he knows he'll be a dead man if he does. A Hamas assassin will be the first to kill him if he does this.

Agree/disagree?
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jwenting
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:02 pm

Possibly. But also he does not wish for peace because that would mean compromise and the abandonment of his lifelong ambition of the destruction of Israel and Jews in general.
The loss of power (and possibly his life) is a minor annoyance compared to that, power can be regained and on death he must surely go to paradise after being responsible for killing so many of his enemies.
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Krushny
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:49 pm

His assessination has been tried many times (by Israelis or by rival Palestinian groups), I do not think this will change whether he accepts peace or not. He knows how to protect himself. Anyway he is an old and sick man, he will not be around much longer.
But you are right this is some kind of ME tradition, murdering leaders who sign peace accords (Sadat, Rabin).
 
Guest

RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 9:39 pm

If that were true he wouldn't be fighting against the Israelis who have been trying to kill him for quite a while. Hence it most likely isnt' true.

Everyone dies sometime.




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Guest

RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 10:05 pm

Arafat has publicly stated on many, many occasions that he fully accepts the right of Israel to exist. He is not fighting for the destruction of Israel and all the Jews as Jwenting claims ... rather, for the removal of a brutal oppressor and for an independent nation state rather than an apartheid-style bantustan as presently exists.
 
avi
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 10:06 pm

But you are right this is some kind of ME tradition, murdering leaders who sign peace accords (Sadat, Rabin).

You can add to that list the Lebanon president in 1983 (?) Bashir Jomael who declared he want peace with Israel and shortly after was murdered in a car bomb explosion (the Syrian intelligence was behind it).

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avi
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 10:11 pm

Arafat has publicly stated on many, many occasions that he fully accepts the right of Israel to exist. He is not fighting for the destruction of Israel and all the Jews as Jwenting claims ...

I don’t think there is one leader in the world who care what Arafat says anymore. Only his actions are taking into a count and he doesn’t get any points here.
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Guest

RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 10:49 pm

for the removal of a brutal oppressor and for an independent nation state rather than an apartheid-style bantustan as presently exists.

No, really?

But then, WHY has he decided to offer Arik Sharon the election...?

Indeed, for you and other Israel-haters, Sharon represents the most evil forces on earth [you've just stated, in the thread called "OK to attack Saddam...?", that "The best thing for world peace would be if one of the bodyguards in TNNH's photo drew his pistol, put it against Sharon's head, and pulled the trigger"];

But...without Arafat's FULL cooperation, Sharon would NEVER have become Israel's PM.

. . .



]
 
Krushny
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 10:55 pm

I don’t think there is one leader in the world who care what Arafat says anymore. Only his actions are taking into a count and he doesn’t get any points here.

He he he, it looks like Sharon is lately trying to rehabilitate him... He gave Arafat a small victory in the last siege of the Muqata. The funny part of the siege was when the Israelis asked the White House to mediate in the issue; they were answered in the line of "Are you crazy or what? You convinced us to ostracize Arafat, and now you ask us to talk to him?"  Yeah sure
 
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:37 pm

This article seems to confirm that Arafat has the Israelis on one side and Hamas and the other militants on the other ... and that he is getting badly squeezed between them.

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/international.cfm?id=1136992002

Some exerpts:

By 9 October, the tension had calmed but the authority and its Islamist adversary were still not reconciled. The authority wants Hamas to "extradite" the killers to its custody, but Hamas has refused because "the law must be applied to the police and not just to citizens".

Hamas’s defiance of the authority will almost certainly continue. Two years into the intifada, the Islamic group is a dominant power in the occupied territories, and nowhere more than in the poverty-stricken, besieged towns and refugee camps of Gaza.

It owes its ascent to Mr Sharon’s emphasis on a military solution, Israel’s attacks on the Palestinian Authority and its subsequent collapse, the divisions within Yasser Arafat’s Fatah movement, public support for Hamas’s strategy of armed struggle within the West Bank and Gaza, plus suicide attacks in Israel. The result is less a party in opposition to the leadership than a movement bent on establishing an alternative to its crumbling order.

In August, the authority’s police forces gingerly tried to arrange a ceasefire in Gaza along the lines of the truce that has more or less held in Bethlehem.

It was ignored by Hamas, which unleashed mortar attacks against army bases and Jewish settlements and suicide bombs in Israel. Some of these operations were done singly, others in concert with militias belonging to Fatah, Islamic Jihad or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

Also in August, the Palestinians made a sustained effort to agree a common policy for the intifada. Fatah wanted a clear acknowledgement that the goal of the national struggle was the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, and that resistance, armed and popular, should be confined to these areas. It also wanted a national unity government to be formed ahead of any new elections.

Hamas demurred on all three counts, but the critical divide was on goals. It agreed that the immediate aim was to end the occupation, but refused to relinquish national, religious and refugee claims to land that was part of the Palestine mandate but is now Israel.

Is it possible Hamas can be domesticated as a loyal Palestinian opposition rather than a mutinous one? Palestinians are convinced that it cannot be tamed by repression, or by ceasefires aimed at rescuing a regime in which Hamas has no stake, let alone by declarations from the battered ruins of Mr Arafat’s headquarters in Ramallah. Any remedy, they say, must come from outside.

Other Palestinians say that Hamas will remain irrepressible until Israel is pressured to lift the blockades and curfews, and until elections and a genuine reform process are established. Above all, Hamas will retain its power until the arrival of a peace process that offers a serious international pledge that the occupation will end.

Hamas is confident that such international rescue will not come. And Mr Sharon seems set on ending the intifada by military means. Between them, they have made one thing clear. "With every Palestinian death, Hamas grows stronger," said a Palestinian in Khan Younis.
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:47 pm


Nothing is restraining Hamas,Jihad, Al Aqsa or even a particular civilian Palestinian to shoot Yasser Arafat.The situation in which he is now is closer to death than life !!!

And then,who told that Arafat is refusing peace ?
Arafat is refucing your conditions of peace,and even if he will comply with these conditions entirely,the Israelis will do that he seem to the world's view as a con-peace !!!

That's what's happening now.
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cedarjet
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:11 am

If he accepts complete soverignty and independence in the west bank and Gaza, East Jersalem as a capital then no one will try to kill him, he'd be a hero (as if Israel would ever offer such a thing). If he accepts Israeli soverignty and some kind of compromise ie continued Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Palestinians can collect garbage ("partial sovereignty", cheers), as offered by Barak, then he wouldn't last five minutes.
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avi
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:47 am

Krushny,

Unfortunately you are 100% right.
Arafat was with his back against the wall, he was under attack and pressure from the PA authority and outside it by many people who demand him to accelerate the reform and suddenly, from all the people in the world, he was saved by Sharon.
But it was a small victory, already forgotten. He is under fire back again.

I do hope that my government learned something from it (but I doubt it).

SAS23,
Arafat can blame only himself about the situation he lives in.
As a leader you should take care your opposition, especially a violent one, and he had a great opportunity in 96 but he did nothing, as usual.
He started the Intifada and lost control of it. Organizations like Hamas are taking advantages from such situations (and trust me when I say that the PA people is not exactly on Hamas mind. Hamas is thinking about me more than about any other PA person).

Cedarjet,
What you describe as Barak's offer was not the case.
By the way, in the last summit (Taba, Egypt, Dec 2000) even Jordan and Egypt leaders thought Arafat should have taken what was offered so it certainty wasn’t a bad offer.

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Guest

RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:23 am

Avi,

and exactly how does Arafat control his enemies (the terrorists) when Israel continues to destry his police force and his ability to control his own country?

Come one, lets have a discussion with some answers ....





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avi
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:44 pm

ADG,
Who destroyed his forces in 1996 and prevented from him to do anything? (Read my post again).
Who destroyed his forces not on September 2000 but until April 2002, 19 months into the Intifada?
Who does prevent from him to act in the GS today? Israel didn’t enter the strip the way we did in the WB. His forces in the strip are still alive and active.
He could have done it but he didn’t and still doesn’t want to.

On April 2002 we had enough and took the security and the terror fighting in the WB into our hands. Not surprising things are much better here today than they were 6 months ago (The situation is not ideal in here yet but we are working on it).

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manni
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:47 am

Arafat a dead man if he accepts peace?

You mean just like Yithzak Rabin?
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tbar220
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:35 am

Yea, I dont see it as unprobable that he would be assassinated by members of his own factions if he reaches peace with the Israelis.
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RE: Arafat A Dead Man If He Accepts Peace?

Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:44 am

Avi,

The history available to us appears quite different to your understanding of it and includes copies examples of IDF bombing police stations, media stations and various other infrastructure such as peoples houses in addition to the things perpetrated by the Palestians.




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