Guest

Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:44 pm

Britain's Ambassador to Israel has upset his host government by saying it like it is ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$FXURCKNFHLSTJQFIQMGSFFWAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2002/10/15/wmid15.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/10/15/ixnewstop.html

Some exerpts:

Britain's ambassador to Israel has angered its government by describing the Palestinian territories as "the largest detention camp in the world".

Sherard Cowper-Coles accused soldiers of humiliating and harassing civilians. He put his complaints to Maj-Gen Amos Gilad, the officer in charge of the welfare of Palestinians under occupation, after a tour of the West Bank which he is said to have found shocking.

After his comments were leaked to the press yesterday, a senior Israeli official said: "The ambassador has forgotten that the British mandate is over. He went too far."

British officials said the criticisms were co-ordinated with Whitehall after Gen Gilad visited London, where he was asked to explain why 3.5 million Palestinians were effectively locked up.

Although Israel has directed its anger at Mr Cowper-Coles, his criticism is part of an Anglo-American campaign.

Last week the American ambassador, Dan Kurtzer, delivered a letter to Ariel Sharon, the prime minister, calling for more freedom of movement for the Palestinians and an end to the killing of civilians by the army.

Mr Cowper-Coles said: "This conversation was part of a private dialogue between friends. We do not publicly lecture our Israeli friends. We do not believe in megaphone diplomacy."

The ambassador is seen as a sympathetic figure in Israel, thanks to his troubling to learn Hebrew. Last Sunday he appeared on a hard-hitting satirical television programme, arriving at the studio in a London taxi, carrying a rolled umbrella and wearing a trilby.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:46 pm

Oh boy....here we go again...a childhood rhyme comes to mind

"Here we go round the mulberry bush, mulberry bush, mulberry bush
Here we go round the mulberry bush, all day long."
NO URLS in signature
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:58 pm

So are you saying that this report is untrue, Tbar?
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:16 pm

Sure , the situation was better 2 years ago....BEFORE Arafat had launched his terror war against Israel : 98% of the Palestinians were living under Palestinian administration, 100 000 were coming daily in Israel for work, there were no street closures, no Israeli soldiers in Palestinian cities....and an international airport.

But....before deciding to send dozens of suicide bombers in Israeli public places....killing hundreds of innocent civilians....the Palestinians were surely well aware that their daily situation couldn't possibly remain the same.....(even though British ambassador would like....)

In March 2002, the territories were not yet the "prison camp" it is supposed to be now; Israel should have accepted the hundred-dead-a-month rate without even thinking of defending itself.



 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:24 pm

So you are saying that it is better to live under a brutal oppressor than to strive for freedom, Toda?
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm

Goddamn SAS, don't put words in my mouth.

Let me spell out what I was saying above so that you can understand my dry, sarcasm.

All these threads about the middle east which begin with an accusation of either Palestinians or Israelis lead to nowhere. They just end up being the same bullshit debates between the same people using the same points to argue the same old shit. I don't care about these stupid threads anymore. I only try to contribute to Middle East threads which will lead to thoughtful debate.
NO URLS in signature
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:29 pm

Tbar - so why not just ignore them then, if you want to remain blind to the injustices being caused to the Palestinians by the Israelis?
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:59 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:45 pm

Since when do suicide bombing constitute " to strive for freedom" ?
Do think the Palestinians terrorist activities are helping their situation? I guarantee they would be 100% better off if they stopped.

-Clovis
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:55 pm

SAS,

I don't care about your petty little debates, don't you get it? I don't care for the points you try to make. I just don't give a damn. I know where my opinions stand on this subject, and you of all people haven't proven to me that you can have a solid debate on the subject with valid points. You of all people haven't proven to me that you can give me a worthy opinion or idea that may change mine. Not many people on this board have. The only person who crosses my mind is Mx5_boy. So apart from starting threads of my own, I'll stay away from these. Oh, and I'll throw in a dry comment here and there, which you apparently like to twist around.



NO URLS in signature
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
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RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:05 pm

SAS23, I've been stayinng out of these things because they annoy me, but what the heck:

I don't care what the British Ambasador said in a private message. One man's view is proof of nothing. Also there are many reasons a person might say something. While I won't argue that conditions the Pallestenian areas could use improvment it is pathetic that you nver seem to realize that these people brought their own plight against themselves. Arafat is their leader. Arafat is a power hungry egotist. He is a terrorist. He could care less about his oun people. The leadership of the Palestenians is apathetic to their own situation. They are more concerned with lining their own pockets. That is why there is a problem. Israel is just protecting itself. SAS23, why don't you get on Arafat for what he does to his own people????
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 8:35 pm

So you are saying that it is better to live under a brutal oppressor than to strive for freedom, Toda?

it seems the Palestinians believe it is better...because THEY decided to bring back the Israel Defense Forces into their cities and roads...

Indeed, even though you want us to ignore it, the Palestinians weren't living under ANY "oppressor" in the year 2000; but then , their evil leader decided to launch a new terror war on Israel. The Barak Gvt didn't send the army back into the terrirtories...and even Sharon didn't do it after a long serie of horrific suicide bombings [Tel Aviv disco, Netanya mall, Jerusalem Sbarro, Haifa bus, Jerusalem pedestrian mall and many many more]; but the Palestinians really wanted Sharon to send the army into the territories, so they launched a wave of attacks which resulted in more than hundred Israeli civilians assassinated in one month [Netanya hotel, Jerusalem Moment café, Haifa Matza restaurant and all the other atrocities].


But of course, Israel shouldn't have reacted...even with hundred dead a month...or with 200 and more, because the numbers would have kept growing, until the wanted "invasion" would have finally been ordered.




So that you should better ask your provoking "question" to Arafat...
And at the same occasion, you'll also be able to ask him another great question : why did he select Sharon as Israel's PM if he's so unhappy with the man...



 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:11 pm

Toda,

You need to get down off the soap box. The IDF invaded, they were not invited. Nor did the *Palestinians* do ANYTHING to invite the IDF, you are using the actions of terrorists to justify attack on a whole community.

It's pretty standard, the IDF have a problem with telling the difference between terrorist, Palestinian, media, non Palestinians, non violent protestors. Unless of course they are looking for human shields in which case they grab the unarmed .... (refer Jenin).



VH-ADG
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:26 pm

guess whatsas23, i dont bloody care, all this is is a attempt at flamebait.

the palestinians have been oppressed for 100s of years, that doesnt make it right but you have to look at why they have been offered a state 7 times in the 20th century from balfour to taba and everytime they have said no.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
avi
Posts: 878
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:51 pm

SAS23,
I told you in other post. The PA can blame only themselves for their condition.
Long live the B747
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:27 am

The IDF invaded, they were not invited. Nor did the *Palestinians* do ANYTHING to invite the IDF

No, the *Palestinians* didn't do ANYTHING to force Israel's intervention...To kill hundreds of innocent civilians in Israel is clearly NOTHING, ADG; it is NOTHING which could eventually justify a military action against the sources of this unending terror.

If the IDF "invaded" just for the pleasure to invade...then it would have been easier not to evacuate these territories during the 1990s. Your "views" are as always heavily biased and opposite to any reality. But hatred makes blind, that's well known; to be blind to the point of saying that the *Palestinians* didn't do ANYTHING is already an extreme case...

 
ronen
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 1999 9:08 pm

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:41 am

So he had said it so what? I suppose everything which comes out of a British civil servant is the holly true .
b.t.w sas what do you think about this prison http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/08/nireland.politics.1400/index.html
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:01 am

the PA can only blame themself for this unattractive predicament they find themself in, and the good news is now most of the world agrees.

Yes their lives are hell in the territories, this is by design to apply enough pressure to the Palestinians to end their support and dispatch of suicide bombers across their border.

The roads are closed, the checkpoints are up? Why, because the Palestinians misused these opportunities. Ambulances are stopped at the checkpoint? why, because the goddamn Palestinians misused the ambulances to transport suicide terrorists.

You can get all hissy and emotional as you want Neil, but your constant posting after posting after posting gets you, me, and the middle east nowhere.

Your postings add no value, are devoid of any inteligence, meaning, or substance. Worthless.

Good day to you
TNNH
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:02 am

You know SAS, you remind me of a user named Tedski. (Tedski forgive me for using you as an example if you are still here). Tedski continued to bash GE engines for the 777, saying they were unsafe and poorly made. Sure, his opinion once or twice was fine, and we all took it for what it was worth, but then he began to talk about it in every thread, even when the thread had nothing to do about the engines. People started to get so annoyed with him, that they began bashing him every time he spouted off something about the GE90. Finally, he got the hint and he shut up about the engine, realizing that he had given his opinion and people knew the way he felt. He realized that people understood his opinion after the first time he spoke about it, and he didnt need to keep telling them, (because it only made them annoyed). After he realized this, people liked him a lot better and there was a lot less bitterness on A.net. Now, either you are just insecure about your opinion, or you are just trying to piss people off about Israel. But honestly, we all know your opinion, and enough grinding. Give it up. You too ADG, we are quite aware of your opinion as well. Grow up and stop acting like damn hippies with a protest sign. This is not the place.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:08 am

And, if you want to know why we can't acheive peace between the palestinians and the israelis, you don't have to look any further than yourselves, SAS and ADG. You represent those who see only their opinion, and don't take into consideration the opinion of others, just like the palestinians and israelis. You have two sides that make themselves totally blind to the other. Neither is willing to listen or cooperate, they are both taking innocent lives, and its a shame they are doing this to what was once one of the most beautiful regions of the world. Shame on them, and shame on you for your blindness to both sides.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:40 am

SAS23, thanks for sharing this positive note

The British ambassador to Israel can be seen as a very neutral person in this matter as he is a host in Israel. A lot has to happen before someone insults his host. Let's hope he can be an example for many others.

UAL747,

Reading your posts and these of some others reminds me to an old saying...
BARKING DOGS DONT BITE Big grin

SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:05 am

UAL747, people like ADG and I are voiciferous about the plight of the Palestinians is because there is great evil being perpetrated in the country at present - and on both sides of the divide. Israel/Palestine, not Iraq, is the greatest danger to global stability.

Why do I keep posting on the subject? It is because I am reminded of the words of Pastor Niemoller: "First they came for the Blacks and Indians, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't Black or Indian. Then they came for the undocumented immigrants, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't undocumented. Then they came for the gays, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't gay. Then they came for the homeless, the welfare mothers, the dissenters, the hemp smokers... and I didn't speak up because I was not one of those people. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up."
 
lubcha132
Posts: 2642
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 10:37 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:18 am

you're pretty safe..anti-semitism is getting more tolerance now.

arafat has no control over his people, no other arabs seem to want them, they only have interest in killin us kikes. The arabs, you, and big brother aren't gonna be happy until the jews are gone. BUT WE AREN'T GOIN ANYWHERE! take up a new hobby.
 
Marcus
Posts: 1666
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 5:08 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:29 am

Didn't this second intifada start after Sharon visited that temple?.....something that the Barak government stupidly authorized knowing this would stir things up....and in the end who capitalized from the resulting turmoil.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:53 am

Didn't this second intifada start after Sharon visited that temple?...


No, it didn't. And it has been "officially" recognized in a document called "the Mitchell Report".

The first terror incidents of what has been named "intifada" by its organizers have been carried out weeks before Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount.


BTW, "intifada" is supposedly meaning "stones war"...it is part of the Palestinian propaganda machine : bombs, Kalashnikovs and...suicide bombers are innocently called "stones"...to present the Palestinians as poor defenseless people whose fight is limited to throwing stones at tanks......

 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:11 pm

I'm shocked that while al qaida has declared war on civilization by bombing discos and office buildings and murdering thousands of innocent civilians you still have the gaul to label Israel "the greatest danger to global stability."

You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
qatarairways
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:02 pm

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:26 pm

Toda,

"BTW, "intifada" is supposedly meaning "stones war"...it is part of the Palestinian propaganda machine : bombs, Kalashnikovs and...suicide bombers are innocently called "stones"...to present the Palestinians as poor defenseless people whose fight is limited to throwing stones at tanks......"

I am Arabic and I speak my language. Intifada's meaning is something along the lines of "Shake Up" and not "stone war" which by the way would be "Harb al Hijara". I am sure this one of the many myths perpetrated against the Palestinians, and it is probably the work of a Propaganda machine but definitely not the "Palestinian propaganda machine" as you put it.

By the way here is the definition of the phrase "Shake Up":



shake up
vt

1. make major changes: to make major changes in an organization or institution, especially with the intention of improving or modernizing it
2. upset somebody: to make somebody feel upset and disturbed
3. mix by shaking: to mix something by shaking it in a container

Microsoft® Encarta® Premium Suite 2003. © 1993-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. (emphasis added)


 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:56 pm

Toda,

"BTW, "intifada" is supposedly meaning "stones war"...it is part of the Palestinian propaganda machine : bombs, Kalashnikovs and...suicide bombers are innocently called "stones"...to present the Palestinians as poor defenseless people whose fight is limited to throwing stones at tanks......"

I am Arabic and I speak my language. Intifada's meaning is something along the lines of "Shake Up" and not "stone war" which by the way would be "Harb al Hijara".


QatarAirways:

While my understanding of Arabic is still elementary, I too know that parenthetically the word "intifadah" does not translate to "stones war". So, I agree with you.

However, I think toda meant something else. That while the word does not directly translate to "stones war" -- symbolically for the Palestinians, "Intifadah" has come to mean "stones war" or war of stones.

As you may know, the first intifadah from 1987 to 1991 was marked by wide scale attacks of Israelis by stone throwing Palestinian youths. The second intifadah began in a similar vein, but for a reasons strongly debated by both sides - devolved in a much more violent and (suicidal?) form with Palestinians using, not stones but suicide and car bombs and small arms ambush attacks to communicate their message and with the Israelis using walls, tanks, roadblocks, and large scale troop movements to defend themselves from this violent message.

Best regards,
TNNH
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:01 pm

Toda, I cannot let that go unchallenged. At no time have I, or ADG, ever stated directly or indirectly that we are against the existence of the State of Israel. Without wishing to speak on behalf of ADG, we want to see Israel revert to its pre-1967 borders. We want to see it pull out permanently from the Occupied Territories, including the removal of all of the illegal and inflammatory settlers there. We want to see Jerusalem be made into a neutral city - under the control of no single group or country. We want to see Palestinians who were forced from their homes and farms by terrorism being allowed to return, or received full compensation both for the loss of their land and for the suffering they have endured at the hands of the Israelis. Given that these reparations are what the Israelis received from the Germans, this is fair and equitable.

The IDF has F16s, Main Battle Tanks, Apache attack helicopters, guided missiles, and probably the best trained and equipped army in the region. They also have up to 500 nuclear warheads and extensive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, some of which have already been tested in 'live' exercises. This military force, in the hands of an extremist government, is what makes Israel the greatest danger to civilisation.

Against this military might, the Palestinians have, what? Stones, AK47s, molotov cocktails and an ever growing supply of people that are so oppressed that they literally have nothing to lose but their lives who are prepared to sacrifice themselves for the freedom of their people.

Truly, this is a battle of biblical proportions - except this time it's the Israelis who are Goliath and the Palestinians who are David.

There are two scenarios that would provide an 'end-game'. First, if the Palestinians adopted an MLK/Gandhi non-violent approach to the IDF - as envisaged by Tom Clancy in one of his books. That would clearly signal to the rest of the world that it is indeed Israel that is the aggressor and not the Palestinians - and the US would be in a completely untenable position in terms of their support and protection of Israel.

The second is where Israel completely pulls out of the Occupied Territories and removes all barriers to free movement by the Palestinians; removes the settlers and pulls out of East Jerusalem - and does not retaliate against any Palestinian attacks for a period of say, six months. If at the end of that period the Palestinians are still carrying out suicide bombings when they have in effect achieved the majority of their goals, then it will be clear to the world that they are the aggressors. Of course, one would have to watch out for groups of IDF members masquerading as Palestinians stirring up trouble and carrying out attacks - that's something that has happened on many occasions.
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:19 pm

Toda.

You need to stop generalising. The Palestinians did not do the things you claim, the Palestinian terrorists did. The people have no control over the terrorists, indeed with israeli opression they no longer have any control over anything.

TNNH  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Your posts are of no value and state only the Israeli propoganda line, interspersed every now and again with pictures to break up the monotony and bog down our bandwidth.

UAL747

I will continue posting my opinion until these discussions are banned. I do not start the threads, I merely join them. If you already know my opinion then direct your attention to others who insist on telling us ad nauseum their opinions which are simply reposts of posts ignoring facts and figures that are posted to discount their propoganda. As for your comment about them not being able to find peace. What you really mean is that people like SAS and myself are stopping the rest of you from sweeping the Palestinian people blindly under the sand.

NWA,

and we know your point of view so kindly take your own advice.

Its attitudes like yours that leads to hatred and intolerance and then wars. It's laughable that you sit there being exactly what you despise and you can't even see it.

TNNH is correct when he says Hitler was not half jew, from a web page:

Not one of them realized that Adolf Hitler had a strict Catholic upbringing (of the type that supposedly produces moral, virtuous people), or that he was an altar boy in his youth, or that he once told General Gerhart Engel that "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so". None of them knew that his infamous "Mein Kampf" contains phrases such as this: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Toda,

You are incorrect again. Whilst I am against the existance of the state of isreal because the state was illegally created, I have never advocated the most barbaric attacks against innocent civilians regardless of race or religion.

These statements are nothing but your lies.

I have stated on a number of occasions quite clearly that I am aware that the state cannot be dismantled, and therefore even though it should not be there, it will remain. I call for a return to the 1947 borders and a cessation of the opression and murder of the Paletinian people (and when I say Palestinian people I am talking about those that are NOT the terrorists).

This is clearly stated and totally ignored by the zionists of the group.

I see fault on both sides and could, if I chose to, start as many Israel v Palestine threads as you guys do, I simply choose not to. I counter your lies, inuenndoes, racial slurs and so on as best I can and in a far more mature manner than many of your counterparts.

As for spreading lies, I don't think you are in a position to make any statements at all about liars, but having said that, which lies have I told? I ask this question time and time again and it's never been answered, that's the nature of dishonest propoganda isn't it? You sit here and make slanderous statements about others with no ability to back it up, when asked to do so you're off on some tangent or other in a typical avoidance tangent. Eventually, if it goes true to form i'll be called something like "sand nigger" or "rag head" or "that Aussie Bitch" by one of your zionist friends.

No, I don't see a difference. About a year back I posted the history of Palestine/Israel from 1911-1990ish. I got my information from reliable sites, including the Un site (which is the organisation that created Israel). The true history supports my statement that Israel *should not* exist. It simply shouldn't be there. The UN had no authority to create the state.

This is a fact, that is only in dispute by a few people. This is largely accepted within the world. This creation of the state *IS* the cause of the instability in the middle east. You can try and blame the palestinians for not accepting their lot in life as you see it, but the simple fact remains that it all comes down to the creation of the Israeli state. There has been no time since 1911 that the people we now call the Palestinians ever accepted the creation of the state, so it is no surprise to anyone that they behave the way they do.

The fact that I have looked into the reasoning and feel that the Palestinians have a valid complaint does in no way and has never indicated that I support the terrorism. I understand why they do it, I do not support or condone it.

I'm really tired of posting this statement only to have it ignored time and time again by the likes of you. It doesn't suit your purpose to conceed that others may have a point because that would make your beloved Israel look bad.

Well sorry to disappoint, but except to the jews and a small number of mostly Americans, Israel is a country that is widely critisized for it's behaviour. It has WMD and 68 United Nations resolutions against it, all of which have been ignored. Iraq, who the Americans are about to attack has only 16 broken resolutions and is about to get WMD.

It's time to get off your soapbox and start working with the rest of the world. Israel is as responsible as Palestine for the problems going on in the middle east and you need to accept that before there is any chance of peace. You need to realise that your blind support of Israel will eventually lead to an end of the terrorism, but the cost will be genocide.

I happen to think there must be a better way and if the cost of my belief is to have people like you lying about me and calling me names. Well so be it.

I know the truth and so do you, because if you didn't you wouldn't be so defensive about the issue.




VH-ADG
 
ronen
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 1999 9:08 pm

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:29 pm

Israel=Satan

Palestinians = angels

we get the picture.

just ignore them.

 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:38 pm

Your posts are of no value and state only the Israeli propoganda line, interspersed every now and again with pictures to break up the monotony and bog down our bandwidth.

Whatever, my criticism thats yours are also nothing more than the simple and tired repetition of the global anti-semitic "propaganda line" get us nowhere. Please debate facts said-- intead of emotions incurred.

I will continue to post pictures in my threads, as you have occasionally in yours. They illustrate my point and bring home the raw scenes necesary to help effectively communicate this very complex and complicated issue.

TNNH is correct

You seem surprised?  Big grin

TNNH
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:13 pm

As semite covers anyone of Middle Eastern origin, it (a) includes the Palestinians and (b) does not cover many Jews, many of whom are of African and European origin.
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:29 pm

SAS23,

I still don't understand why you ALLWAYS post stuff about this topic??? Were you beaten by the IDF as a child? Did Ariel Sharon take your favorite toy away from you? Did you and Yasser share an "intimate moment". You take every opportunity to rehash this subject.

I could say: "Tulsa, Oklahoma- Old Lady Mauled By Bears After Being Set On Fire in Freak Zoo Accident", and you're problably reply... I'm sure she'd have been happy to die in that manner if it was a choice between that and living under Israel's opression!

C'mon SAS, whatever point you had was diluted through your exxesive posts that now anything you say seems moot.



ADG,

I'd think by now you'd know why terror needs to be fought. By the way, how ar those Aussie blood bank levels?
 
avi
Posts: 878
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:06 pm

Didn't this second intifada start after Sharon visited that temple?.....something that the Barak government stupidly authorized knowing this would stir things up....

Actually, before the government gave Sharon a green light to the visit they checked with the PA (not that they had authority in Jerusalem, but still) and they said it was ok. (They gave few "red lines" that were maintain).

As you may know, the first intifadah from 1987 to 1991 was marked by wide scale attacks of Israelis by stone throwing Palestinian youths. The second intifadah began in a similar vein…

Absolutely not!
The second Intifada started when a bomb exploded near a military Jeep in the GS (one officer was killed) and with a PA policeman who fired and killed an Israeli policeman after they both finished one of many Joined patrols in the WB.
The first 2 deads in the Intifada were Israelis, not PA. So it didn’t start the same (with stones)

Whilst I am against the existance of the state of isreal because the state was illegally created,

… including the Un site (which is the organisation that created Israel). The true history supports my statement that Israel *should not* exist. It simply shouldn't be there. The UN had no authority to create the state.

In case you don’t know / remember, Britannia returned its mandatary on the region to the UN so the UN DID have authority. The UN decided to end the British control and establish 2 states. It is neither Israel fault nor the UN that the Arabs decided to start a war.
You always call for Israel to accept and carrying out UN resolutions. Here you have a resolution we did accept so suddenly it is illegal?

Long live the B747
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:42 pm

There has been no time since 1911 that the people we now call the Palestinians ever accepted the creation of the state, so it is no surprise to anyone that they behave the way they do.

...and since they're not yet accepting it, and they shouldn't accept it according to your opinion ["why should they compromise?"]...they will continue to "behave" the way they behave...until Israel, which simply shouldn't be there, will be gone.



The UN had no authority to create the state.

As always, things have to be understood according to your "wishes"...the UN had no authority to present the partition plan...but has suddenly authority to dictate Israel's policies with its automatical Arab majority....
And BTW, the UN didn't "create" the State of Israel; the UN voted the partition plan, which forsaw the creation of 2 States...The second State, which would perhaps have been called Palestine, has not been created because the Arabs refused the plan and Transjordan + Egypt invaded the territories meant to become this new State.
The State of Israel was declared by Ben-Gurion...and created with a heavy price due to the immediate war its neighbors launched; 6000 Israelis were killed, out of a population of 600'000.


* * * *


You want to see an example, just ONE example, of the lies you're constantly spreading? There's no need to go too far to find one...:


The people have no control over the terrorists, indeed with israeli opression they no longer have any control over anything.


Ha ha ha...the suicide bombings are clearly coming out of nowhere...there's no organizations behind those human bombs....these guys decide spontanously to become a bomb...they "find" the explosives....they "find" the belt....and they go, alone, to blow up somewhere in Israel.

As long as there was the "Israeli oppression"...there were NO suicide bombings...As soon as a Palestinian authority has been created, its territories became the source of unending suicide bombings. Once more, a blatant lie...





I understand why they do it, I do not support or condone it.

You are condoning it after each attack. But you don't even have the honesty to recognize this fact.







SAS23: At no time have I, or ADG, ever stated directly or indirectly that we are against the existence of the State of Israel.

ADG: I am against the existance of the state of isreal because the state was illegally created

. . .

And SAS23...translate for us please in English what the expression "to remove Israel" does mean...That's the "solution" you and ADG have been advocating on these forums some months ago... You are not against the existence of the State of Israel, but this "illegal" State should be removed; oh, I see...you are in favor of the existence of the State of Israel...on the moon..







Given that these reparations are what the Israelis received from the Germans, this is fair and equitable.

You love provocation, isn't it? I wonder why...






"that Aussie Bitch"


?...Persecution complex...??

On your next post you'll accuse me of having insulted you...




It has WMD and 68 United Nations resolutions against it, all of which have been ignored. Iraq, who the Americans are about to attack has only 16 broken resolutions and is about to get WMD.

The fact that Irak has used chemical weapons on at least two occasions [killing several thousands civilians] is a mere detail...it is obvious that Israel is a much bigger danger....

What is really obvious...is that both you and SAS23 have a problem...an obsessive hatred againt Israel; because to be able to write such a BS as this last sentence and the following...both of you must be in trouble.

This military force, in the hands of an extremist government, is what makes Israel the greatest danger to civilisation.


Like Irak...al-Qaida is also a mere detail in comparison...
 
advancedkid
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Thu Oct 17, 2002 9:52 am

By the way, to clear things a bit, I have
confirmed views of Rabbis that the current
State of Israel has almost nothing biblical
to it.
Their belief is that Israel as we know it
today is illegal and that it isn't really
based on any Jewish thought but was created
by the Zionist movement which they strongly
oppose.
They stand by the way on the Arabs side.
Regards,
Advanced
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:41 am

I have
confirmed views of Rabbis


yeah, cool...you've found some of the most extremist faction in Judaism...the Neturei Karta....It has the same kind of value as "confirmed views" of mollah Omar ...



 
advancedkid
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:06 pm

Todi,
Would you please elaborate, why or how
are these Rabbis considered extremists?
Are they wrong when they say Zionism
and Judaism are two dufferent things?
Are these Rabbis "self hating Jews" then??
....
Wanna know what you think?

Advanced
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:11 pm

Advanced...

Surely even you are inteligent to understand that in a global religion such as Judaism, not every Jew is going to believe the same thing on every issue.

Some religious Jews recognize the Jewish state, others don't. It's simply a case of differing opinion. However, this small minority that denies Israel's legitimacy pales- let me repeat PALES- in number, influence, and prominence to those who believe the opposite.

Does that make sense to you 'kid?

TNNH
 
Guest

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Thu Oct 17, 2002 4:59 pm

More proof of the Israeli government's lack of commitment to peace through the removal (or lack of it) of illegal and inflammatory settlements of ultra-right wingers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/10/17/wmid17.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/10/17/ixworld.html

Some exerpts:

The Israeli government backed away from confrontation with Jewish settlers yesterday after about 800 gathered to defend a rogue outpost that the army had planned to dismantle.

Settlers, many armed, had arrived from all over the West Bank to prevent the demolition of six makeshift buildings at Havat Gilad, near the Palestinian city of Nablus.

Teenage toughs damaged at least seven cars belonging to journalists, smashed Israeli television equipment, threw stones at soldiers and attacked a Red Cross vehicle.

The outpost is named after Gilad Zar, a settler who was killed by Palestinian gunmen 17 months ago. It is officially a farm, although its is hard to see how crops will thrive where only some stunted olive trees do battle against the wind.

After several hours of talks with the army he announced a deal under which soldiers would protect the site, the Zar family would be allowed to farm it by day and no one would sleep there.

"We are not evacuating. Our presence will continue and the Israeli flag will still fly here," he told the crowd. Most of the crowd clapped, but some diehards shouted: "No agreement."

The outpost is one of 30 built without army permission in the West Bank, which the defence minister, Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, has promised to dismantle.

Most of them are uninhabited - tokens of future expansion - and Havat Gilad is the first with a permanent population, the Zar family.

Palestinians have dismissed an army drive against the outposts as window dressing.

====

Now, imagine that instead of being Jewish, they were Palestinians - what do you think would have happened when they started throwing stones at soldiers, trashing vehicles etc? That's right - the brave members of the IDF would have opened fire on them, or called in an Apache attack helicopter to fire missiles at them.

Yet more evidence of a non-even handed, apartheid approach ...
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Occupied Territories Largest Prison Camp In World

Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:46 pm

as the author stated, both sides have their faults.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit

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