tbar220
Posts: 6706
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Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 9:27 am

I pose the question to you. Is the UN necessary in the scope of world politics anymore? The way I see it, no. I personally think it is an ineffective group. The idea is good, and the intention is there, but it doesn't get much done nowadays as too much time is spent between nations bickering instead of getting stuff done.

Ex.: Israel-Palestine, USA-Iraq, Milosevic, Racism Conference (that was a joke, sorry folks), etc.

Now, I don't know if the UN should be scrapped, but perhaps it needs some sort of major overhaul. Obviously, I can't think of anything now, but I think the UN has some serious flaws.

Any comments?

p.s. Can we please keep this civilized? Thanks.
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IndianGuy
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 1:26 pm

No.

That would be like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The UN needs urgent reform and more teeth to rein in irresponsible members hellbent on proving on how they are above the rest of the world.

There has to be one world constitution governing all people on earth. Same rules apply. Mankind has to evolve a consensus and evolve a set of rules that apply to all, and then provide the UN with teeth to protect that constitution.

The UN must first de "democratised" instead of the panchayat that it is today.

And let there be no doubt that the firt step would be rein in irresponsible member states like the Anglo-Saxon brigade of the US and UK who keep using the UN as a sort of condom to cloak their imperialist ventures. And when the UN refuses, the US talks of going alone!

This is not what the UN was set up for.

-Roy
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 1:45 pm

I'm taking a break from political discussion for a while. See you guys in the fun topics.
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 1:55 pm

The needs and desires of someone in Rwanda are different than the needs and desires of someone in California. The UN should not exist; instead other countries should be given MORE autonomy.

I think government should be as de-centralized as possible. The bigger a government is the harder it is for the people (i.e. the inconvient things that make government necessary) to cause change when necessary. Also the harder it falls when the people get so fed up with it they finally start over via whatever means possible. Does anybody remember the USSR? What about when that happens on a world scale? Say we got a true UN, the United States of World; What if some members decide that their rights are being trampled? Can you imagine a civil war when the World is at stake?

No; the UN should not be powerful; Instead governments should delegate rule to their underlings; all the way down to the local level. Let local governments decide what is permissible for their locals; and what punishments should be given when people cross the line. If the people in that locality don't like the government, they can change it quite easily.
 
L-188
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:10 pm

I really don't have that much use for the UN and think they step on certain portions of their anatomy most of the time.

However I can't condemn them because it is the provisions of article 73 of the UN charter that the United States violated when they put forward Alaska statehood.

It would be difficult for me to condemn an organization who wrote the rules that will help free the Alaska people from American oppression.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
AC320
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:36 pm

Erm, that whole Alaskan thing was a joke right? I don't get it, am I missing something?
fuddle duddle
 
Guest

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:41 pm

UN? Not a fan.

You can blame U Thant for the 1967 Six Day War. If you don't know who U Thant is - you probably shouldn't be participating in this discussion.  Wink/being sarcastic.

night all

gotta love the daylight savings time - its only 1:30! nice.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:08 pm

Like you said, the UN is a good idea gone wrong.
It's gotten far too large to possibly be effective, and has not enough power to enforce that which is IS able to decide.

L188, the Alaskan people got to vote on their statehood. They got a choice of
a) continue as a territory
b) continue as a state of the union
c) independence

They voted to become a state in free and open elections.

AC320, there are people in Alaska who consider themselves to be no more than a colony that is exploited. In a large part that is mainly grievance against the politicians in Washington who spend billions on the smallest program on the east coast yet don't even allocate enough money to keep roads in good repair in Alaska.
Alaska is one of the few states of the USA that is seeing a declining population. A lot of the young people are leaving for study in the other states and don't return.
I wish I were flying
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:10 pm

Alaska is one of the few states of the USA that is seeing a declining population.

That is not true. According to the latest census report, all U.S. states recorded a increase in population.
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:15 pm

Not in it's current form.

It has turned into a Disneyland for the cynical, over wrought by political correctness, back biting and ineffectiveness. as far as it being a "political forum for peace" it has failed miserably because it has no spine and refuses to take any steps PROACTIVELY to prevent small problems becoming major issues.

It is nothing more than a lawless porkbarrell, hell even the frikkin diplomats wont pay their damn parking tickets. Maybe they should move it out of NY to someplace where its really needed, like Iraq.
 
Rai
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:17 pm

Maybe they should move it out of NY to someplace where its really needed, like Iraq.

And before they move out of here, they should pay us the hundreds of millions of dollars they owe us in parking ticket fines. We could sure use that money, you know!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:42 pm

the firt step would be rein in irresponsible member states like the Anglo-Saxon brigade of the US and UK who keep using the UN as a sort of condom to cloak their imperialist ventures.

Oh, please. More anti-Anglo racism. Given that "anglo saxon" nations pay more in UN dues than the relative power they wield in the UN, the above quote is laughable.

Seriously, perhaps the UN should be restricted to democratic nations only.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
L-188
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 5:10 pm

No it is not a joke.

And independence was not an option in that election.

Also military personell who where not indigenous to Alaska where allowed to vote but Natives where disenfranchised in that ballot. They had been one of the reasons that the statehood measure had been deafeated four times previously.

http://www.akip.org
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
IndianGuy
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:25 pm


Given that "anglo saxon" nations pay more in UN dues than the relative power they wield in the UN, the above quote is laughable

Actually, "Anglo-Saxons" OWE billions of dollars to the UN.


Seriously, perhaps the UN should be restricted to democratic nations only

I agree with you 100%!

-Roy
 
Guest

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:46 pm

The UN cannot work until ALL countries honour it's existance and stop playing this pathetic game of supporting it ONLY whilst the decisions are in their favour.




VH-ADG
 
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yyz717
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Sun Oct 27, 2002 11:34 pm

Actually, "Anglo-Saxons" OWE billions of dollars to the UN.

This hold-back of payments is based on the UN's unwillingness to increase efficiency and cut bureaucracy. The fees to Western nations (while based on their ability to pay) far outweighs their voting power in the UN.




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3309
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:07 am

The UN is most definately plagued with problems. Overbureaucratic and corrupt, used as a political weapon by some countries etc.

I would not want to remove it though. Unfortunately you only seem to hear of the failure of large conferences. Is this a fault of the UN, or a fault of individual countries blocking measures. (BTW isn't it ironic that those countries complaining most about the UN often seem to play a large part in making those conferences fail).

What you do not hear often on the news is the large amounts of food, healthcare and educational help that is given. Not to mention disaster relieve that are also done by the UN. The conferences that are useless take ussually only a few days. The food/healthcare/educational/disaster help is done every day, and a lot of people depend on it!


Attamottamotta!
 
GDB
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:22 am

Petertenthije has it right, easy for us in the rich part of the world to not see a use for the UN.
In any case, the post war world could have been much worse without it, think of conflicts where although the UN did only manage to broker some kind of peace, rather than a complete solution, these conflicts could have gone on and spread, to who knows what.
An imperfect organisation in an imperfect world.


 
Guest

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:29 am


This hold-back of payments is based on the UN's unwillingness to increase efficiency and cut bureaucracy. The fees to Western nations (while based on their ability to pay) far outweighs their voting power in the UN.


Doesn't matter what they can afford to pay, it's what they do pay. And isn't withholding the payments simply an attempt to control the UN? The UN cannot work whilst it is being controlled by one or two countries.

The UN is the best we have, lets work on it and improve it rather than getting rid of it altogether.



VH-ADG

 
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yyz717
Posts: 15698
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:44 am

The UN is the best we have, lets work on it and improve it rather than getting rid of it altogether.

Well, that's the whole point of the US withholding its fees. It is having a positive effect on UN bureaucracy. Do you have a better approach?





I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 10:23 am

Honestly i don't really know how I feel for the UN.

I'm sorry its so damn Anti-Israel, but I suppose it has some value. I don't know - I'd need to study its history more.

TNNH
 
747-451
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RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:59 pm

ADG,

maybe if they'd pay the parking fines...LOL


 
Guest

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 4:48 pm

Yzy,

it's those who use money/force to force their will that are at fault in dealing with the UN. It is NOT a forum to support only when they agree with you, it's a forum that allows everyone in the world to have a say.

TNNH,

The UN isn't anti Israel, it created Israel. It's complaining against the behaviour of Israel which is a valid complaint.



VH-ADG

 
Guest

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:07 pm

WRONG WRONG WRONG. Israel created Israel.

Check your history books. It occured like this:

14 May 1948: The last British commisioner General Alan Cunnigham departed Haifa in the early evening lowering the Union Jack and sailing away. A few hours later, David Ben-Gurion, announced the creation of the State of Israel and became its first president. Immediately both the USSR and USA recognized the state.

The next day, 15 May 1948:
Units from the Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Transjordanian, and Iraqi armies invaded the new state and launched a regional war.

Neither the UN nor the British had any hand in creating Israel - in fact both had failed to effectively create political institutions in the mandate instead leaving the Arab and Jewish communities to struggle for power. Of course the Jewish community won.  Big thumbs up

TNNH
 
Guest

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 9:15 pm

The Palestine problem became an international issue towards the end of the First World War with the disintegration of the Turkish Ottoman Empire. Palestine was among the several former Ottoman Arab territories which were placed under the administration of Great Britain under the Mandates System adopted by the League of Nations pursuant to the League's Covenant (Article 22) .

All but one of these Mandated Territories became fully independent States, as anticipated. The exception was Palestine where, instead of being limited to "the rendering of administrative assistance and advice" the Mandate had as a primary objective the implementation of the "Balfour Declaration" issued by the British Government in 1917, expressing support for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people".

During the years of the Palestine Mandate, from 1922 to 1947, large-scale Jewish immigration from abroad, mainly from Eastern Europe took place, the numbers swelling in the 1930s with the notorious Nazi persecution of Jewish populations. Palestinian demands for independence and resistance to Jewish immigration led to a rebellion in 1937, followed by continuing terrorism and violence from both sides during and immediately after World War II. Great Britain tried to implement various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged by violence. In 1947, Great Britain in frustration turned the problem over to the United Nations.

After looking at various alternatives, the UN proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947).


I suggest you get a more accurate history book

and in the 1948 war expanded to occupy 77 per cent of the territory of Palestine. Israel also occupied the larger part of Jerusalem. Over half the indigenous Palestinian population fled or were expelled. Jordan and Egypt occupied the other parts of the territory assigned by the partition resolution to the Palestinian Arab State which did not come into being.


taken freely from a non copyrighted site and based on United Nations documents and sources



VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Is The UN Necessary Anymore?

Mon Oct 28, 2002 10:21 pm

Absolutely. Your right. The UN had no hand in creating the State of Israel. The State of Israel created the State of Israel.

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