KAUSpilot
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The Laughing Bali Bomber

Thu Nov 14, 2002 3:02 pm

This is disgusting, especially the fact that the police chief was joking and laughing with him. Really quite disturbing.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/11/13/1037080786324.html
 
david b.
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Thu Nov 14, 2002 3:10 pm

Other people are laughing too. Well................People will do anything in front of a camera. Properly beat the shit out him afterwards. BTW: Why are so many people there?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
tbar220
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Thu Nov 14, 2002 5:20 pm

Honestly, I don't believe it. The picture is obviously out of context. The authorities would have him in much tighter security, and people wouldn't be smiling and laughing with him. I don't know this source and it can be making this shit up just to rile people like you and me up.

Sorry, just don't find it credible...
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Skystar
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Thu Nov 14, 2002 5:21 pm

It was on video too!
 
swissgabe
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Thu Nov 14, 2002 5:24 pm

Weird if you look at this picture and the sitting one killed a lot of people just like that. But maybe all the police/government guy just laughed because they know that there is a camera or maybe someone made a joke.

I really don't hope that the sitting men is their friend and they are going with him for a cafe later ...
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
tbar220
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Thu Nov 14, 2002 5:29 pm

NO URLS in signature
 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Thu Nov 14, 2002 8:44 pm

Tbar...The Age is owned by Fairfax, and is probably one of the most credible sources on international news in the world.
 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:42 pm

The Indonesians have real problems. What a disaster their state and society are in

 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:45 pm

TNNH.....is there any country on this planet who's society is not in a state of disaster?

Can you please explain to us exactly how Indonesian society is in a state of disaster at the moment?
 
heavymetal
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:32 am

I'm tellin ya. Sharks. Big Sharks. Feed these thugs to a mature adult great white. On tv.

Primordial people understand only primordial justice.
 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Fri Nov 15, 2002 2:07 am

Can you please explain to us exactly how Indonesian society is in a state of disaster at the moment?

Take a closer look pal. The answer is staring you right in the face:

 
cwapilot
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Fri Nov 15, 2002 4:01 am

Hmmmm....well, looks like some people need to calm down a little bit, and get a little balance...maybe learn about a culture and people before calling them "primordial".

http://smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/14/1037080851468.html

Read that before trying to run down Indonesians based on one messed up individual, and a single event you read about in a newspaper.
Also note that it is from an Australian publication.
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
palmjet
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:35 am

Yes - it would appear that the behaviour reported was offensive, but a letter to the SMH this morning made reference to something which I also thought may have been the case. In many Asian countries, to smile in this sort of situation indicates that the person is uncomfortable, feels awkward or embarrassed.

Perhaps not the best example, but when I lived in Taiwan, if someone slipped on the sidewalk, people around them would laugh - not because they wished the person ill-will - but because they were embarrassed for that person and did not know how to react.

Interesting?

Eastern - Number One To The Sun
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:42 am

I find that rude and disrespectful. If that's the way they behave in their culture then I think their culture is rude and disrespectful. So be it. It should be a universal value that you shouldn't derive entertainment or pleasure from the misfortune of a fellow human being, needless to say the death of many fellow human beings.
 
Spaceman
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:53 am

Since when is it a crime to look happy to a camera. Life is short so you might as well make any circumstance a pleasant one. What's with the long face?(Only applicable is you are a horse.) Big grin
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:12 am

I don't know how these people go to sleep at night.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
CGK
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sat Nov 16, 2002 10:37 am

These people were just so happy to be in front of the camera and knew that the next morning their picture was going to be on every major newspapers across the country.

Where did you guys get ideas that they derive entertainment or pleasure from the misfortune of fellow human beings?

Just my $0.02.

CGK

 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sat Nov 16, 2002 6:49 pm

yeah i'm sorry i don't buy this "laughing-at-murderers" thing as a normal behavior. no way. those indonesians are sick.
 
heavymetal
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:46 pm

Cwa...

Some people should dial down the button marked "IM OFFENDED"

My primordial comment was directed toward the alleged bomber and those who sympathize with him, not the whole friggin population. And if you wish me to withdraw the opinion that mass slaughter and taking delight with it are anything other than the basest form of evil, sorry. I won't.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 12:13 am

Cwapilot
Hmmmm....well, looks like some people need to calm down a little bit, and get a little balance...maybe learn about a culture and people before calling them "primordial".

I don't buy your argument either. This is no "nervous laughter", the picture shows a very relaxed, jovial group. I know (and have known) many Asians, and I can tell you this is not normal behavior by any stretch of the imagination.

I suppose next you'll tell us that killing innocent people is also a part of their culture? I suppose killing innocent westerners may be.

pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 1:51 am

"Those Indonesians are sick". Right, so all 230+ million Indonesians are sick because of a single photo in which you don't know what was happening at the time. This is like me saying that Yanks are all pyschotic murderers because one kid decides to open fire on his classmates. You cannot judge 230+ million people by the "actions" of a dozen people. You know, kinda how you can't judge all Saudi's for the acts committed by a dozen of their countrymen. But this is a theme the right wing nuts on this forum like to subscribe to.

KAUSpilot. Why is that rude? In "western" culture we use words like fuck, arsehole, and even cunt, in every day (just look at movies/tv/music for this, and yes, these mediums are indicative of the culture). Yet in Asian culture, language like this very very rarely used. And you say that they have a rude culture? C'mon. And I hardly think that the people in the photo were laughing at the deaths of nearly 200 people on their island. I would not be in the least bit surprised if there are people in that photo who knew someone who was killed.

People say a picture says a thousand words, but without knowing in what context that picture was taken those words may just be wrong.

But the "rude and sick Indonesian" bandwagon will be coming around again shortly, and I am sure some of you will be jumping on board.

Note to moderators: Certain words in my post were not used just to be crass, but to make a point/comment in response to KAUSpilot, and should be considered fair useage of that language. Plus, an Australian court has recently deemed that useage of such language is fine when used for that purpose  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 5:15 am

Those Indonesians are sick". Right, so all 230+ million Indonesians are sick because of a

Quit being so paranoid. I don't give a sh*t about "all 230+ million Indonesians" - just those laughing at this animal (the subject of this thread must I remind you).

TNNH
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:47 am

Aviatsiya, I don't know where you live, but the words you describe are certainly not a part of the music I listen to, the movies I watch, or the way I talk to people. I'm sure any so called "police chief" or reporters who went around talking like you describe would be called upon to resign, as the people in this picture should be. You can try to turn this topic into anti-western rhetoric all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that this was a pathetic display.
 
lehpron
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:56 am

Yeah, let us all stay angry and sad all our lives because one moment in time destroyed our peace of mind. As of the idea of looking back and laughing at things, even if they have nothing to do with the matter at hand (hint hint), that's just revolting.  Angry
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:07 am

It's not surprising at all to see all the terrorist sympathizers on here condoning this event, I'm sure you were jubliant at their success in killing a few more evil westerners. Pretty sad, but it's just the ultimate manifestation of hatred and envy.
 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:29 am

TNNH, I am far from being paranoid, but I am simply pointing out how much of a hyprocite you truly are. I quote "The Indonesians have real problems. What a disaster their state and society are in". You said this TNNH. "state" and "society" points to the fact that you are talking about all 230+ million Indonesians.

KAUSPilot, I am not trying to turn this into an anti-Western thread. You were trying to denegrate Indonesian culture by saying that the Indonesian culture basically is "rude" and "disrespectful". I guess that this photo is your first representation of the Indonesian culture?

I also am left to wonder why no-one has mentioned this. Under normal circumstances the Indonesians would not film such interrogations, but it was done in this case to show that Amrozi was being treated properly (the Australian government was concerned that he would be bashed and abused by the Indonesian authorities). Like I mentioned above, we don't know in what context that particular photo was taken, but by people smiling (in terms of "western" culture), it shows that everyone is in good spirits. Also, in "western" society, it is well-known that interrogators will often joke and laugh with suspects; basically to stay on "friendly" terms with the suspect and get information more easily. Except most of you probably wouldn't realise this?
 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:35 am

KAUS, you have NO idea at all.

Terrorist sympathiser? Yeah right. I nearly lost a friend in the Bali bombings, and you think I am sympathising with the people who perpetrated that act? Guess again.

Personally, if Amrozi is guilty of the bombings I hope that he gets a sentence of "term of natural life". Just as I hope the same of Osama bin Laden.

But because we have the clarity of mind to be able to see that one event is not directly related to another we are sympathisers?

Not at all....but this merely a line used by people who are so close-minded to be able to see that things in this world are not as simple as black-and-white.

Also, KAUSPilot, can you please tell me the names of the last 10 movies you watched? Just interested in what they were?
 
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yyz717
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:43 am

TNNH.....is there any country on this planet who's society is not in a state of disaster?

Can you please explain to us exactly how Indonesian society is in a state of disaster at the moment?


Several reasons:
1. Corruption.
2. Dictatorship.
3. Abject poverty.
4. Strong armed control of regions from Java.
5. Treatment of East Timor.

After the Bali bombings, Aus (and the West) should consider a travel ban & foreign aid ban until Indonesia smartens up.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:45 am

Oh please, then why are you pleased with the "good" treatment this guy is apparantly getting? If you want to see him punished and not treated with any remorse, then good. It's not like he's a petty thief, "oh we can overlook this, it's all okay, you only killed a few hundred people, no big deal". BS. This is unacceptable and disgusting, I don't care what kind "cultural excuses" you try and make for the indonesians. Things like laughing and smiling are universal, they are limited in what they can mean. That's really all I have to say about this, have fun trying to blame me for the bad publicity.
 
david b.
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:50 am

According to the CIA factbook, Indonesia is a Rebublic.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/id.html#Govt
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
ben
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:31 am

TNNH.....is there any country on this planet who's society is not in a state of disaster?

Can you please explain to us exactly how Indonesian society is in a state of disaster at the moment?

Several reasons:
1. Corruption.
2. Dictatorship.
3. Abject poverty.
4. Strong armed control of regions from Java.
5. Treatment of East Timor.



Here we go.....

Corruption: Florida elections, Gray Davis (see e-gray.com), Enron, Merrill Lynch, Dubya's Texan oil buddies, Watergate, Whitewater.....

Dictatorship: Pinochet (Chile), Fulgencio Batista (Cuba), General Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq and 30 years of American supported dictators (Pakistan), The Shah of Iran, Anastasio Somoza (Nicaragua), Papa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier (Haiti), George Papadoupolus (Greece) and the list goes on and on and on...
ALL American-supported and/or created!

Abject Poverty: It's very easy for us middle class people to say that America and the 'west' doesn't have a problem with poverty. .. but I'll give that one to you for now.

Strong armed control of regions from Java: America supports Israel and their brutal apartheid rule of Palestine. See also the Dominican republic, Haiti and everything I wrote in the 'Dictatorship' section above.

East Timor: Please explain how well the residents of Diego Garcia were treated when the US needed a cold-war base on that Island.

After the Bali bombings, Aus (and the West) should consider a travel ban & foreign aid ban until Indonesia smartens up.

Not if the situation is of their own making. General Suharto was brought to power by CIA operations to assassinate his opponent and previous leader of Indonesia, General Sukarno.

So all those years, keeping a 'friendly' dictator in power has done more than just give the kids back in the good ol' "land of the free" a pair of cheap Nike trainers...
 
ben
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:41 am

Hey that is a great profile, David B.

Love the anonymous tip form!! hilarious!
 
radarbeam
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:59 am

That photo's just sick, it shows a suspected murderer waving and happily smiling to the photographer, you can barely read on his lips " Hi, yeah it's me that killed all those nasty westerners, man it feels good. Hi mom are you proud of your son now? you doesn't need to be a genius to understand that.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:24 am

Corruption: Florida elections, Gray Davis (see e-gray.com), Enron, Merrill Lynch, Dubya's Texan oil buddies, Watergate, Whitewater.....

You just failed to mention one little detail....the USA has laws that provide remedies and redress for the "corruption" you noted above....in Indonesia, the law is the ruling party and their police and military cohorts.

You also neglected to mention that your examples have been lawfully addressed......
-The Florida election was settled lawfully by the Supreme Court.
-I don't know what Gray Davis did, but if he did anything illegal, e-gray.com should be pursuing it in court; their web-site is just partisan politics.
-Enron is being prosecuted in a court of law. What the Merril Lynch do? Do you mean Arthur Andersen? They are also facing prosecution.
-Watergate and Whitewater were settled in a court of law. Remember, Nixon's presidency ended in disgrace?
-Dubya's buddies -- someone will get them if they are corrupt; again, allegations do not equal a crimes.

Judging by the picture of the jovial Indonesian murderer with his jovial police comrades, I don't see what law will bring him to justice.

I could similarly argue your other points, but I'll leave that to others.

Pete


"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 10:53 am

Yyz717, adding to the points that Ben made, particularly on East Timor, if it weren't for the "west", in particular Kissinger, then the Indonesians would never have had the opportunity to set up shop in East Timor. Plus the treatment of East Timor by the "west" is even more disgraceful, because we all sat back and watched whilst the Indonesians slaughtered the East Timorese. Not only did we watch, but we also supplied the bullets  Sad

KAUSPilot, I am actually glad that the Indonesians are treating this suspect (remember, he is not yet guilty of any crime) in a civilised manner, for this means that the torture which used to be dealt out by the Indonesian military in the past may be on the downward path.

Is the photo in this thread similar to the photo below?



Here you have 2 men sitting together and smiling for the cameras. All the while, the guy on the right is responsible for the cold-blooded murder of thousands of Iranians, and the systematic torture of Iranian students and other citizens. What is the excuse for this "happy snap"?

Or how about this photo?



And this is after the slaughter of some 500,000 people by Suharto post-1965. This photo is presumed to be the meeting between Suharto, Kissinger and Ford, where the American party gave tacit approval for the invasion (and subsequent mass murder of the inhabitants) of East Timor./

But they were happy times weren't they?  Insane

 
radarbeam
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:02 am

KAUSPilot, I am actually glad that the Indonesians are treating this suspect (remember, he is not yet guilty of any crime) in a civilised manner

This is not civilized, this is lax. First, this guy should be handcuffed to the chair, he is suspected of blowing up a bomb afterall, so why wouldn't he try to get his hands on one of the policemen guns? Second, he should be isolated in a cell alone with a cop, not with journalists around.
 
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yyz717
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:14 am

the treatment of East Timor by the "west" is even more disgraceful, because we all sat back and watched whilst the Indonesians slaughtered the East Timorese.

Give me a break. Just like the West was responsible for the massacre in Rwanda?

It's time people (and countries) took responsibility for their own actions. Indonesia was responsible for the massacre in East Timor. No one else.

Indonesia is clearly a 3rd world hell hole right now. Let it rot for a while.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
docpepz
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Indonesia Has Lost Its Sense Of Humanity

Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:38 am

Article from The Jakarta Post, reproduced by The Sunday Times, Singapore's largest newspaper:

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,4386,155359,00.html?

Indonesia 'has lost its sense of humanity'

JAKARTA - Indonesian society is mentally ill as it has lost its sense of humanity and solidarity due to the lawlessness and the lack of leadership among the political elite, say analysts.

They said on Friday that the nation needed to examine itself to strengthen its sensitivity towards those who are suffering and that the authorities should seriously enforce the law against criminals and the corrupt.

'Our people are sick. They are confused and lack vision after decades of having been oppressed,' Mr Franz Magnis-Suseno, a professor at Jakarta's Driyarkara School of Philosophy, said.

'There are no exemplary figures who are able to help them escape this problem.'

He said the people no longer treated others as human beings, such that they crushed others like cockroaches.

Respected Muslim cleric and poet Mustofa Bisri, echoing a similar opinion, said the nation should re-examine itself to heal the wounds.

'Indonesia has suffered a heavy stroke and needs intensive-care treatment. So far we have shown no solidarity with the suffering people... you see many who ostentatiously display their wealth without feeling uncomfortable at all,' he said.

The critics lashed out at the 'public exhibition' put on by National Police chief General Da'i Bachtiar with Bali bomb suspect Amrozi, who laughed, shook hands and posed for photographs during their meeting in Bali last Wednesday.

The images of the smiling Amrozi, televised in Indonesia and Australia, also outraged Canberra, which called them 'ugly images' that would distress relatives of the almost 200 people killed in the Oct 12 tragedy.

Mr Magnis-Suseno said the jovial greeting of Amrozi by the National Police chief was similar to last year's public show of 'affection' by former chief of Jakarta Police, Inspector-General Sofjan Jacoeb, towards Hutomo 'Tommy' Mandala Putra, who was later jailed for 15 years.

Social psychologist Darmanto Jatman of Semarang-based Diponegoro University said the decades-long exposure to violence had contributed to the eroding sense of humanity. --The Jakarta Post/Asia News Network
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:00 pm

Again aviatsiya, we see more anti-western rhetoric from you to justify poor behavior by the indonesians. I think you and I both know international diplomacy is a different situation than a domestic police interrogation.
 
Guest

RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:26 am

Well KAUS and Yyz717....the west did sit back and not only give the Indonesian the authority to invade East Timor, but the west also armed the Indonesians to the teeth. And not only that, but the west also trained the TNI. And the west didn't only give the Indonesians the means to murder thousands upon thousands of East Timorese, but up to 500,000 of the general Indonesian population

That is not anti-western rhetoric. Its the fricking truth. Deny it all you like. See the movie "Year of Living Dangerously" for what I talk of.

Docpepz

Well that is a newspaper article. The images I have seen on the TV screen and in the newspaper paints quite a different story of Indonesian society. This society has bandied together and promised to get those responsible (a second arrest was made yesterday), and they have grieved alongside of us, in all classes and circles of Indonesian society.
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Tue Nov 19, 2002 5:35 am

So because Ford or Carter met with some brutal dictator 30 years ago it's OK to laugh when we die now? I guess we can't complain now when innocent tourists are getting murdered right? This strange logic may work for you, but it doesn't fly with anyone else I'm afraid. You keep grasping for arguments to justify the unjustifiable aviatsiya, first it's culture, next it's the Shah, then it's east timor. Despite your claims, none of these things justify an Indonesian police chief in 2002 laughing about a mass murder and treating the prime suspect like his best friend.
 
docpepz
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RE: The Laughing Bali Bomber

Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:39 am

THe thing with Indonesia is that with over 200 million people.... and if you consider that maybe even 1% of them as extremist idiots you get 2 million people. And all you need is one person to mess things up.

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