manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 3:37 am

The IDF invaded Jenin today in retaliation to yesterdays suicide bomber wich killed 13 people. The IDF blew up the house in wich, they believed, the terrorist had lived. The IDF also killed a nine (9!!!) year old boy, a western journalist who witnessed this got shot. The journalist, a British female, was not deadly hit, only wounded. The IDF also killed an Irish man from the United Nations mission in Jenin.
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Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:15 am

ok... lets dig for any scarcity of truth in your propagandist flamebait.

Manni's BS: - The IDF invaded Jenin today in retaliation

FACT: The IDF did not "invade Jenin". The IDF raided the home of a wanted Islamic Jihad terrorist in the Jenin refugee camp, Abdullah Wahsh. Why are United Nations administered refugee camps haboboring Islamic Jihad terrorist fugitives?

Manni's BS: - The IDF blew up the house in wich, they believed, the terrorist had lived.

FACT: Nope. There was no report anywhere that the IDF blew up any houses in the Jenin camp. The IDF raided the house of an Islamic Jihad fugitive hiding in a United Nations administed refugee camp outside Jenin.

Manni's BS: - The IDF also killed a nine (9!!!) year old boy

FACT: The IDF raided a the house of an Islamic Jihad fugitive during which a fierce gun battle broke out between terrorists and soldiers. A boy (some reports say 10, some say 11) was killed in the cross-fire. An investigation is underway to determine what happened.

Manni's BS: - , a western journalist who witnessed this got shot. The journalist, a British female, was not deadly hit, only wounded

FACT: The woman Caoimhe Butterly, 24, from Dublin, Ireland was indeed not British, she was Irish. Furthermore, she was not a "journalist" she was an active supporter, activist/member of the pro-Palestinian International Solidarity Movement who has been living in the camp for half a year. Butterly was quickly evacuated by the IDF to a hospital in Israel for medical treatment.

Manni's BS: - The IDF also killed an Irish man from the United Nations mission in Jenin.

FACT: Your confused again. Ian Hook (50 y/o), a British, not Irish, national was killed today in the Jenin refugee camp. The IDF has said it is unclear who killed Hook and the matter is under investigation. IDF troops raided the home of an Islamic Jihad wanted terrorist fugitive, Abdullah Wahsh, who was hiding out in a United Nations administered camp. A gunbattle ensued between terrorists and IDF soldiers and Hook was killed in the crossfire. The Palestinians, naturally, are prematurely fingering the Israelis. Hook was the first UN official to die during the last two years of Mideast fighting. At least 19 foreigners have been killed, including a Turkish man and a Swiss woman who were shot dead by Palestinian gunmen while serving as European monitors in Hebron. Why was an Islamic Jihad wanted terrorist fugitive, Abdullah Wahsh, hiding out in a United Nations administered camp??? The Islamic Jihad is listed as a terrorist organization by the EU and the USA.

TNNH
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:36 am

TNNH,

You call this propagandist flamebait, I could care less. But what I wrote is what I have directly translated from our local news channel. This report was accompanied with documentation showing the house been blown up, the woman who claimed to be a journalist and who told the reporter that the IDF had clearly seen here , but they did not stop firing at here at all.

I write,

a nine (9!!!) year old boy

TNNH replies,

a boy (some reports say 10, some say 11)

Question: What a hell of a difference doe it make? Once again a young boy get murdered by the IDF. Oops I nearly forgot, ticketed for jaywalking offcourse  Yeah sure

I hear on the news...
An Irish man from the UN got killed

TNNH replies,
Not Irish, British...

TNNH could be correct, I could be wrong and vice versa. Sure is , I did not make this up but copied it from the news

Question: What a hell of a difference does it make? The man got killed!
Oops, ticketed for jaywalking offcourse.
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heavymetal
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:51 am

You're looking for...what? Sympathy? Shock? Outrage?

Nah. You're just looking to pitch a bitch.

When the world truly doesn't flinch at these stories anymore....Israeli busses full of teenagers and Palestinian 9 year olds.....maybe they'll quit. But then you'd have nothing to be outraged over, right?

I think you're just like the both of them....addicted to outrage.
 
manni
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:53 am

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20021122/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_8122

I found an article about these incidents written in english.

Note that also here is written that TROOPS BLEW UP the house. The IDF REFUSED immidiate access for an ambulance to evacuate the UN official (his death could also have been a result of this, in Belgium this is a criminal offense!) According to this report the young boy that got shot by the IDF is 11 years old (but even this is the case, what difference does it make?)
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Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:01 am

Your facts are all wrong - there is no proof that the 9/10/11 year old was killed by the Israelis.

The IDF denies delaying the ambulance - on the contrary they say they were the ones who called for it.

Why are UN refugee camps being used as safe havens and hideouts for terrorist fugitives??  Confused

TNNH
 
manni
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:10 am

FACTS? Where did i say these are facts? This comes hot from the news. No I wasn't there, I did not see this actually happen if it is that what you mean?

BTW, Heavymetal

I wonder if your post is adressed to me, because if it is... I've been accused of quiet a few things by some members here, but this is the funniest accusation so far... 'addicted to outrage' Thanks buddy, I always appriciate a good laugh.  Big grin
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AC320
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:12 am

They blew up the house because it was where that psycho who took out the bus lived, as the article states "A common Israeli measure meant to discourage suicide attacks and punish bombers' families." A smart move, they airm to make terrorism an personal loss for the bombers knowing that their actions will harm their families.

Ever wonder why the IDF shoots kids? Because they are "youngsters who were throwing stones and firebombs". When you attack an army, don't be suprised when they shoot you for it.

Your selective reading habits are not healthy, Manni.
fuddle duddle
 
manni
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:19 am

What's happening?
Yesterday someone stated on this board that it is OK for Palestinian men to blow up their kids, as long as it is in their own country. Today I read that when a kid throws a stone he should be shot for that.
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heavymetal
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:20 am

I guess to me "shocking"(your word) and "outrage"(mine) kinda are connected at the hip in this one.

In any case, if a story like this gets a good chuckle out of you, even in a roundabout way, then I guess I'm right. Cheers.
 
AC320
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:20 am

When you physically threaten an army, would you be surprised if they shoot back?
fuddle duddle
 
manni
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:24 am

PHYSICALLY THREATHEN AN ARMY
An 11 year old throwing a stone AC320? Yes, I would be surprised if they shoot back, then again, not anymore I guess.
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AC320
Posts: 2809
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:27 am

Yes an 11 year old throwing a stone threatens physical harm to an unprotected soldier, notice how the article also mentioned "firebombs"

So now we have this simple equation: hostile crowd + weapons = legitimate target

Selective reading again
fuddle duddle
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:55 am

FACT: The IDF did not "invade Jenin".

Your playing with words ..

in·vade ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-vd)
v. in·vad·ed, in·vad·ing, in·vades
v. tr.
To enter by force in order to conquer or pillage.


Pretty much describes what happened.

The IDF raided the home of a wanted Islamic Jihad terrorist in the Jenin refugee camp, Abdullah Wahsh.

Manni - 1, TNNH - 0

Why are United Nations administered refugee camps haboboring Islamic Jihad terrorist fugitives?

Because the refugee camp is full of people who need help. Unlike you, these people don't judge the whole because of the behaviour of the one. Additionally, this is an ALLEGED home of an ALLEGED terrorist. In light of the CONSTANT embarrasing errors made by the IDF, i'd like to see them err on the side of caution. Did they kill this terrorist?

FACT: Nope. There was no report anywhere that the IDF blew up any houses in the Jenin camp. The IDF raided the house of an Islamic Jihad fugitive hiding in a United Nations administed refugee camp outside Jenin.

The description "United Nations administered refugee camp" appears to be incorrect by the way TNNH.

As reported by the Australian Government Media Outlett

No, I see no report of blowing anything up, and we use the term "incursion".

in·cur·sion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-kûrzhn, -shn)
n.
An aggressive entrance into foreign territory; a raid or invasion.


Incursion as you can see means invasion.

Manni - 1, TNNH - 0

By the way, he could have been confused .. it was in Bethlehem that the IDF blew up a house .. so whilst he has the wrong house the action is correct ...

FACT: The IDF raided a the house of an Islamic Jihad fugitive during which a fierce gun battle broke out between terrorists and soldiers. A boy (some reports say 10, some say 11) was killed in the cross-fire. An investigation is underway to determine what happened.

Logic dictates that had the IDF not entered Jenin then the boy would still be alive. Additionally, our reports say 12 so i'm calling you innacurate here also (although given his rapid rise in age he'll have died of old age sometime during this afternoon)....

However the media are reporting that the child was throwing rocks at the IDF and the IDF threw bullets back, i'm pretty sure that counts as a point to Mannis side.

Manni - 2, TNNH - 0

(although it could be argued that had the suicide bombers not killed Isrealis the boy would be alive, but as i've never seen the pro-Israeli lobby put any deep thought into their comments i'll not go that extra step).

FACT: The woman Caoimhe Butterly, 24, from Dublin, Ireland was indeed not British, she was Irish.

Now you're playing with semantics, it's entirely possible that the news reports Manni was hearing said British, i'm giving him the point because of your pettiness.

Manni - 3, TNNH - 0

Furthermore, she was not a "journalist" she was an active supporter, activist/member of the pro-Palestinian International Solidarity Movement who has been living in the camp for half a year. Butterly was quickly evacuated by the IDF to a hospital in Israel for medical treatment.

Can't confirm or deny this as the incident has been largely ignored by the Australian media and the one site I found it on didn't go into that much detail.

Manni 3, TNNH - 0

FACT: Your confused again. Ian Hook (50 y/o), a British, not Irish, national was killed today in the Jenin refugee camp.

Childish play on words ... taking a point from you ... By the way, CNN describe him as a "British National" ...

Manni - 3, TNNH - -1

The IDF has said it is unclear who killed Hook and the matter is under investigation.

The media says the bullets used are the type the IDF use ... and an investigation by the IDF is bound to be tainted (as tainted as an investigation by the Palestinians). The IDF have a history of indiscriminate shooting

Manni - 4, TNNH - -1

The Palestinians, naturally, are prematurely fingering the Israelis.

and the IDF are naturally, fingering the Palestinians.....

Hook was the first UN official to die during the last two years of Mideast fighting.

But not the first foreigner to be caught in the fighting. Indeed there are documented instances of the IDF targetting foreigners and media for no valid reasons.

The Islamic Jihad is listed as a terrorist organization by the EU and the USA.

And it's reasonable for the IDF to go after terrorists, however as usual they've managed to catch everyone else in the crossfire as they attempt to revenge yet another attack on Israeli civilians, irregardless of whether the citizens are in Israel or elsewhere when attacked. Personally I think if the Israelis are in Palestine and they're killed well bully for them. The 2 "states" are at war, if these people don't stay in their own state they get what they deserve. If they're in Israel then it's a totally different story.

Regardless, it's nothing more than a circle of violence that is starting to bore the rest of the world. The world (less the United States) have lost patience with the behaviour of Israel and Israel is damn lucky that OBL has the world focussed elsewhere.

Manni - 4, TNNH - -1

 Laugh out loud


VH-ADG
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:10 am

Hey MANNI care to provwe your point?

: Manni
Posted 2002-11-22 21:24:30
PHYSICALLY THREATHEN AN ARMY
An 11 year old throwing a stone AC320? Yes, I would be surprised if they shoot back, then again, not anymore I guess.

Come here to my base were im at, pick up a rock and throw it at the base guards, and see if they dont shoot you?

"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
galaxy5
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:19 am

: ADG
Posted 2002-11-22 21:55:44
"Personally I think if the Israelis are in Palestine and they're killed well bully for them."
"Why are United Nations administered refugee camps haboboring Islamic Jihad terrorist fugitives?

Because the refugee camp is full of people who need help. Unlike you, these people don't judge the whole because of the behaviour of the one. Additionally, this is an ALLEGED home of an ALLEGED terrorist. In light of the CONSTANT embarrasing errors made by the IDF, i'd like to see them err on the side of caution. Did they kill this terrorist?"

again ADG you condone the killing of israeli's and defend terrorist actions, how surprising.  Nuts
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:52 am

2 infants killed in their home along with her mother who desperately tried to save them - ADG keeps silent

13 Israeli civilians killed in a public bus, including children, mothers and grandmas - ADG keeps silent


Suddenly ADG is back...in force...to attack Israel as hatefully as she can. I don't even read your BS, it's too long.





In November 2001, Manni and ADG could have launched a thread called "Shoking Retaliation Of US Army..."


And all those "human rights" supporters who are constantly bashing Israel's targeted liquidations...kept also silent when the US Predator did the same in Yemen...Interesting (oh, but these were "real" terrorists, because they have killed American and Australian innocents, not only Israeli "legitimate targets"...)


 
Marcus
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:38 am

Why not just get out of the occupied territories?
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:48 am

Why not just get out of the occupied territories?

Yeah...that's exactly what former PM Barak had offered to do in the year 2000; and the Palestinian "strategic" answer to it has been the bloodiest terror war against Israel, which is going on for more than 2 years and has claimed more than 600 lives.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:00 pm

Now now Toda, the offer from Barak offered "partial sovereignty", which isn't the same as getting out of the Occupied Territories at all. Basically most of the West Bank would have been Israeli, but with Palestinian garbage collectors. Only token settlement closures. Israel was to have controlled the water, phones, airspace, surface transport, military. Arafat would have been dead within an hour of signing. It wasn't a fair offer at all.

If Israel completely withdrew from the West Bank and Gaza, the war would end instantly. All the Arab nations have agreed to a pre-67 border for Israel / Palestine, which is a situation the vast majority of Palestinians would accept as well.

I predict that Israel either withdraws 100% and Palestine is reborn as an independent nation in the West Bank and Gaza, or Israel will be gone within 30 years. Short of putting every single Palestinian in a concentration camp or forcibly expelling them, Israel needs to make peace or sow the seeds of it's own destruction. You can't generate this much hate in your neighbours and think an army or anything can protect you.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:21 pm

Galaxy,

It says you are in the United States. It's my understanding of military law in the United States that if a 12 year old threw a rock and someone shot him there would be a prison sentence involved there.

again ADG you condone the killing of israeli's and defend terrorist actions, how surprising.

and as usual Galaxy5, your grasp of basic english is extremely lacking. I do not, and have never condoned the actions of terrorists. I do believe however that if you are in a war and you are in the war zone, in this instance areas outside the borders of Israel as set in 1967, then you are very foolish indeed and you get what you deserve.

To think otherwise is to condone the slow theft of the remaining Palestinian land by the Israelis which is happening.

Toda

You said I don't even read your BS, it's too long.

Do I really need to point out the obvious idiocy in your statement ?

In November 2001, Manni and ADG could have launched a thread called "Shoking Retaliation Of US Army..."

Unlike you Toda, I read your post and can say with complete credibility (unlike yourself) that it is nothing more than an emotional rant based in absolutely no fact. If you are going to have a cry, take it offline.

Marcus

I agree. Why don't they get out of the occupied terrotories. They'll give you every EXCUSE under the sun as to why they didn't, and they won't tell you that the occupation is ever expanding. They also don't tell you that many of the "illegal settlers" are jews moving into the region who deliberately settle their as they have no real fear of their lives (coming from safe countries) and believe that their actions increase the size of Israel. The Israeli government allows it to continue. What other country in the world can you think of that not only allows it's citizens to settle illegally in another country, but encourages it and protects their citizens who are partaking in this illegal behaviour?




VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:28 pm

Suddenly ADG is back...in force......I don't even read your BS, it's too long.

Me neither! What a fucking waiste of her time. Too bad.

TNNH



 
Alpha 1
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 12:49 pm

Manni, you cry outrage when the Israeli's respond, but not a word of outraged is uttered from your fingertips when Israeli kids are blown up, do you.

Save your righteous indigination for people like ADG, who feel the same way. I'm getting sick of both sides and this endless circle of violence. But having said that, I have a lot more sympathy for Israel in fighting these idiot terrorists.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:08 pm

Why not just get out of the occupied territories?

Actually, during Barak's tenure, and even earlier if I recall correctly, Israel pulled out of the major towns in the West Bank, with the proviso that the pull-outs and concessions will continue as long as Israel's security is maintained. On the eve of the latest intefadah, Barak was about to announce major concessions regarding Jerusalem and the contentious settlements. However, all that prospect of peace was just too unbearable for the Palestinians, so they had to rebel, thereby inviting the IDF back, undoing years of progress.

I suppose the Palestinian people are tired of this, but their revered leaders have no intention of participating in a peace process, as they have amply demonstrated.

Peace is fairly easy, really. It starts by stopping terrorism. And Hamas knows it!

Pete  Smile
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 3:26 pm

TNNH,

The post wasn't directed at you, I consider it a positive thing that you don't read them. I couldn't be bothered with dealing with your lack of comprehension anyway. My preference is to deal with people who think about things, not go off like a 2 bob watch.

Delta,

I think you're understanding of what was going on is sadly lacking. You totally miss the lack of tolerance on the part of the Israelis. They continually allow a small group of terrorists to derail the peace process, then they claim that the other side is all at fault.

Seems to me on the basis of the evidence before us that Israel doesn't want peace and is using any excuse to derail the peace process. Lucky for Ireland that England doesn't have the same narrowminded pathetic attitude isn't it?





VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:46 pm

. I couldn't be bothered with dealing with your lack of comprehension anyway

No way sister. You could be bothered to read my posts. You've spent more time responding to posts written by me, marco, and toda then NASA took to launch the space shuttle.

Good try though.  Big thumbs up

TNNH
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:05 pm

TNNH,


"couldn't be bothered with dealing with your lack of comprehension anyway" does not mean "I didn't read your posts". There is absolutely no way that a normal coherant person could get your understanding from what I wrote.

You have given everyone a shining example of the terms "your lack of comprehension" and "going off like a 2 bob watch", which obviously saves me some effort ...

GAME OVER.



VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:27 pm

If Israel completely withdrew from the West Bank and Gaza, the war would end instantly.


What a fantasy...! Who are you to make that kind of statements? You seem to have too much self-confidence...and not the most basic understanding of the ME problem.

Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and the PLO have one agenda: eliminate any form of Jewish independance in the ME. Once Israel wil have withdrawed from the territories, it will be even more easy to attack Israel's major cities Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Haifa...And what will be your advise then?

But well....Hamas and Islamic Jihad will be so happy that they will celebrate the existence of an infidel State in the middle of the Dar-al-islam; really. you are so far from any reality on the ground...




And ADG...don't panic...one doesn't need to read your unending posts to know what is written; it's always the same BS, again and again.
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:32 pm

Maybe its just me, but there does seem to be an interesting spike in the number and visiousness of suicide attacks in the wake of any announcements of peach treaty negotiations. It seems that some of the terror groups will not be satisfied unti the Israelis cease to exist, it is up to the Palestinian and other authorities to remove these elements fro mtheir societies if there is to be any hope for peace.

and I for one would like to visit Israel and its people once in my life time without fear of pieces of me being shipped back home in a box
fuddle duddle
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Sun Nov 24, 2002 6:32 am

What a fantasy...! Who are you to make that kind of statements? You seem to have too much self-confidence...and not the most basic understanding of the ME problem.

I agree, there is no way this war would end "instantly". However, in my view it is up to Israel to get out of the occupied terroritories. Then the United Nations Security Forces can came in and attempt to resolve the rest. Hatred this ingrained will continue for a long time, but right now the world is divided with a huge amount of sympathy towards the Palestinians at the moment.

The Israelis need to consider that they are the agressors in taking and holding land that is not considered theirs. Once the world opinion is with the Israelis the power will be there for non Israeli troops to get into Palestine and sort out the problem.

The hatred in Palestine is felt for the Isrealis, having Israelis in there fighting the terrorists is causing Palestinians who would not normally side with the terrorists to do so. It's absolutely the wrong course of action to take as has been shown in the last few years! The Israelis (and I mean the government when I use that term) needs to absolutely rethink it's stand.

Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and the PLO have one agenda: eliminate any form of Jewish independance in the ME. Once Israel wil have withdrawed from the territories, it will be even more easy to attack Israel's major cities Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Haifa...And what will be your advise then?

Protect Israel at all costs. Isreal has every right to protect it's people within it's borders, what it doesn't have is the right to go into other countries to protect it's people illegally settled there.

and Toda, if you don't read a statement you can't tell it's BS .. the clear message sent there is that there are people here who are absolutely unwilling to listen to points other than their own, and we wonder why there are so many wars being fought in this world.....

AC

I'm not sure I agree with your statement, but certainly the terrorist organisations are (as correctly stated above) out to derail the peace process. The terrrorists are not the ruling authority in Palestine however, and the Israelis reaction to the terrorist attacks is just as damaging to the peace process as the terror attacks themselves. People need to realise that to look at the reasoning behind the support for the terrorists isn't supporting them, this issue has been well discussed and totally ignored by the "I hate Palestine" lobby, the actions of Israel are forcing more and more Palestinians to side with the terrorist organisations, which appears to be just what the Israeli government wants. The more terror out of Palestine the more justification to destroy Palestine and make it one big Israel.

The issue to address IMMEDIATELY is how to stop the Palestinians from supporting the terrorists. There is no magic answer but when the Palestinians hate the terrorists more than the Israelis peace will move foward another step.




VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Mon Nov 25, 2002 8:00 am

Protect Israel at all costs.

empty words, easy to write...



The terrrorists are not the ruling authority in Palestine however


Ah no?

Arafat is the "ruling authority"...and Arafat's organizations (Fatah, Al-Aqsa martyrs' brigades) have been launching many of the deadliest terror attacks against Israeli civilians, without even mentionning the strong cooperation of the PA's "security" services with Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Mon Nov 25, 2002 8:12 am

adg:

your reference to a "2 bob watch" escapes me. perhaps you can clarify to us what the hell you are trying to say.

thanks
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Mon Nov 25, 2002 9:44 pm

And the shameless murdering of children continues as Israelli troops killed an 8 year old boy today...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&e=4&u=/ap/20021125/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians


Meanwhile the IDF admitted that they killed a 53 year old member of the UN. The IDF said it shot Hook because he was mistaken for a terrorist by Israelli soldiers. Hook died on the way to the hospital
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AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Mon Nov 25, 2002 9:50 pm

*sigh*

Lets see there were hundreds of kids gathered and throwing stones at an army jeep, I don't blame the soldiers entirely if they got scared and open fire.

Of course details are still srely lacking so lets find some more information before we totally pass judgement, eh?

fuddle duddle
 
avi
Posts: 887
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Mon Nov 25, 2002 11:24 pm

If Israel completely withdrew from the West Bank and Gaza, the war would end instantly.

Really? Israel completely withdrew from Lebanon. Did it end the war with them? NO.

Since Israel withdrawal 4 people were hijacked to Lebanon (one of them is civilian and we have no information about their condition since it happened over 2 years ago) and another 4 soldiers were killed.
All of these attacks were inside Israel.

So we have (bad) experience with "go out and it all be end" (and we did go out from PA cities)

Lets see there were hundreds of kids gathered and throwing stones at an army jeep, I don't blame the soldiers entirely if they got scared and open fire.

You don’t open fire on children who throw stones especially when you are inside a shielded Jeep. The point is that stones were not the only things they threw. He (yes, the particular child) threw also 2 explosive devices.
In this case it is not up the soldiers to check his age. The PA uses children for this but what’s new?
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AC320
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:19 am

Well the news I've read didn't say the boy himself was throwing the explosive, but if the devices were hurled fro mthe crowed, the soldiers were well justified in the actions they took.

And the mental image I have of an army jeep is one of the open vehicles, in which case hurled stones would pose a risk to the soldiers.
fuddle duddle
 
Marcus
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:56 am

As someone mentioned before on this site

Get out.......put up a fence.....never go back
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
tbar220
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:47 pm

Sigh...

This is the same old crap coming from the same people. Whenever a bus is blown up sending a dozen or more Israeli civilians to bits and pieces, not a word comes from them. When a Palestinian civilian is killed in a crossfire between IDF and Palestinian Terrorists, these people cry bloody hell! Its simply unbelievable...
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Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 5:36 pm

AC320

Lets see there were hundreds of kids gathered and throwing stones at an army jeep, I don't blame the soldiers entirely if they got scared and open fire.

This is entirely unacceptable. If the IDF can put nothing but disorganised frightened CHILDREN out there with guns then they need to give it all up.

Tbar,

As unbelievable as every time a suicide bomber attacks you guys are out there blaming everyone from Arafat to John F Kennedy.



VH-ADG
 
AC320
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:25 pm

Hey kids these days can be dangerous, if they pose a legitimate threat to soldiers I'm not surprised if one or two of them get shot, and of course since there were explosives also thrown at the soldiers, they had every right to defend themselves from these children.
fuddle duddle
 
manni
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:41 pm

AC320,

There is no such a thing as an excuse for ChildMURDER! Wether it be Israelli or Palestinian children. The IDF said they will investigate the incident. I hope the murderer will be punished accordingly.

Tbar220,

I wouldn't call this crap, this is as worse as a bus being blown up. The difference is here that I've never called posts about suicide attacks crap and BS. In contrary those people posting these topics call attacks on Palestinian civilians crap and BS. Why do I need to put words/a post about a bus being blown up by a suicide bomber? There are plenty of people out here who will do it anyway. Yet, very few will do so when the IDF murders innocent civilians. So I'm better of posting about this. You could write how terrible it might be that a bus is blown up, but I do not feel the need to post 'you're right' or 'I agree'. These are useless posts and people doing so have nothing valuable to add. Think about it. Israel isn't white and Palestine isn't black. They are both grey!

But Israel is dark grey and Palestine light grey!  Smile (hold it buddy, I'm only joking Big grin)
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AC320
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:44 pm

It's not murder when its self-defence, you need to calm down understand the difference
fuddle duddle
 
manni
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:51 pm

AC320,

Do you sleep good at night when writing that killing an 8 year old boy is self defence?
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AC320
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 8:07 pm

Yes, if I was a police officer or soldier and and was faced with a young person who threatened my life with either a gun or other weapon, I would pull the trigger to preserve my life; it's the real world deal with it. These situation have happened here before where police officers can sometimes face young people who are armed and dangerous, doesn't have to be gun either, a knife, and yes even a rock can be classified as a weapon.
fuddle duddle
 
Guest

RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 8:25 pm

AC,

You don't answer rock throwing with bullets, that's cowardice.


VH-ADG
 
AC320
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 8:28 pm

and explosive devices?
fuddle duddle
 
manni
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 9:47 pm

AC320,

Read the story buddy! It was an 8 year old boy on his way to school, however a curfew was in place and did not allow anyone on the street. To say it with TNNH words, the boy was ticketed for jaywalking. In any civilized country this would never happen and in the case it would happen the murderer would be put away in jail for life.
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AC320
Posts: 2809
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 9:56 pm

Well "buddy",

I am reading the story. The new article on Yahoo News suggests the boy was in a crowd of children that was throwing stones at soldiers and also that 2 explosive devices were hurled at them. If this is the case, I agree with their decision to fire.

However, if the news article I'm reading is incorrect and the boy was not caught up in this crowd, then it is an unfortunate tragedy and should be investigated and delt with properly.
fuddle duddle
 
david b.
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:09 pm

To say it with TNNH words, the boy was ticketed for jaywalking. In any civilized country this would never happen and in the case it would happen the murderer would be put away in jail for life.

Hate to tell ya this but the middle east including Israel is anything but civilized.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
avi
Posts: 887
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RE: Shoking Retaliation Of IDF...

Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:34 pm

AC320: Well the news I've read didn't say the boy himself was throwing the explosive…

It doesn’t surprise me. There are a lot of things you (abroad I mean) don’t hear.
Here is a small example. Did you hear about the 2 suicide bombers that were located 10 days ago? It was supposed to be a very cleaver terror attack (Hi-tech attack actually) since the 20k explosive were hided inside 2 laptop computers! (We found it because the computers were very heavy).

ADG: You don't answer rock throwing with bullets

Stones do kill you know. Stones killed 4 Israelis during the Intifada (although stones were not the problem in this incident as I said).


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