jcs17
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Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:10 pm

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=4957

That whole thing makes me sick. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:18 pm

This article is so full of crap that I don't even know where to begin rebutting it. I won't even waste my time.

It's really amazing that people read and believe this stuff, but hey, you listen to Jim Rome. That tells us all we need to know.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Rai
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:20 pm

Not the most credible source of information. I take that article with a giant grain of salt
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:31 pm

Sounds like Pat Buchanan wrote that crap. It's a right-wing feel-good piece, nothing more, and, as Rai said, should be taken with a grain of salt.

Mexico may not be thrilled with the U.S. in some manner, but I think this is just hysterical over-reaching by someone who doesn't like foreigners to begin with.
 
Guest

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:42 pm

I agree. It's surprising that some people believe such propaganda-filled articles from a wacko far-right publication (which, driven by ideological madness, routinely portrays liberals, leftists, and everyone who rejects their extremist conservative views as anti-American).

I have always condemned real anti-Americanism when I've seen it, but I also have to condemn FrontPage's malevolent propaganda which is, franky, un-American to the core.
 
jcs17
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:42 pm

This article is so full of crap that I don't even know where to begin rebutting it. I won't even waste my time.

It's really amazing that people read and believe this stuff, but hey, you listen to Jim Rome. That tells us all we need to know.


Yet, you decided to waste your time taking a crack at me. Nice job, nice generalization...way to go. What the hell does the Jim Rome show have to do with my political views?
--
I do agree with this article to a certain extent after living in Atlanta and Dallas, and going to a college with a sizeable Hispanic population.

America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:47 pm

Yet, you decided to waste your time taking a crack at me. Nice job, nice generalization...way to go. What the hell does the Jim Rome show have to do with my political views?

Jim Rome has to do with your political views in that he is from the school of "slam first, think later." In otherwords, he is an idiot. Clearly, based on what you've said about what you think of this article, you operate in the same manner.

I do agree with this article to a certain extent after living in Atlanta and Dallas, and going to a college with a sizeable Hispanic population.

You just proved my point. Gracias, amigo.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
jcs17
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:48 pm

I have always condemned real anti-Americanism when I've seen it, but I also have to condemn FrontPage's malevolent propaganda which is, franky, un-American to the core.

How is Front Page Mag un-American? Because they dont say things that you want to hear? Because they dont sugar coat the issues for you? Go read a far-left magazine and look me in the eye and tell me the Front Page is un-American.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:02 pm

Jim Rome has to do with your political views in that he is from the school of "slam first, think later." In otherwords, he is an idiot.

Oooh, are you gonna get the wrath of KROC for that statement!  Wink/being sarcastic

I don't see where listining to a sport talkshow host has to do with anything about this thread, to be honest. I listen to Romie when I can, and he can be pretty damned funny sometimes. But what does it have to do with views on Mexican-American relations?
 
MD-90
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:20 pm

I am American, I do not want to speak Spanish, I do not worship their holidays, the nation of Atzlan never even existed anyway, and it's high time we militarized our border with Mexico. We need U.S. troops to defend our own border. That's why I pay taxes. I don't come to America to bilk this nation out of all the money and free social services that I can, then encourage my family members to come so that they can live off of honest working American's tax dollars that liberals so willingly dole out to illegal Mexican immigrants who have no right to be here.

I do. My grandfather on my dad's side immigrated here legally, from Poland, when he was 7 years old. His future wife was born in America from parents who had also legally immigrated from Europe. On my mother's side, my ancestors are British with some Indian blood in there too (Cherokee, I think).

All of my ancestors assimilated into America, and were God fearing, patriotic Americans. The same cannot be said for the invading Mexicans.
 
Guest

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:21 pm

Jcs17 wrote:

"How is Front Page Mag un-American? Because they dont say things that you want to hear? Because they dont sugar coat the issues for you?"



Front Page is un-American in my view because it routinely portrays liberals, leftists, and other people who are not far-right conservatives, as virtual anti-American traitors. If you don't support the war against Iraq, you are anti-American; if you are a dual citizen, you can't be a loyal American... Heck, the magazine even has an archive section called "Fifth Column Leftists".

Now, I condemn REAL anti-Americanism when I see it, but publications like Front Page routinely use the term to describe anyone who doesn't fit into their far-right view of what a patriotic American should be like. They fail to realize that America is all about democratic VALUES and IDEAS, not some narrow conservative definitions of patriotism. Their simplistic attitude has much in common with McCarthyism, and I consider it un-American. Happy now?
 
Guest

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:30 pm

In other words, I consider Front Page to be un-American because it is arrogant enough to decide who is "patriotic" and "loyal" on the basis of a warped far-right ideology. This McCarthyist attitude goes against America's most treasured democratic principles, IMHO.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:31 pm

I am American, I do not want to speak Spanish, I do not worship their holidays, the nation of Atzlan never even existed anyway, and it's high time we militarized our border with Mexico.

Great-let's militarize one of the most peaceful borders in the world, simply because you don't like Mexicans. That's Gringoism at it's worst. That's not what is needed. What is needed is for Mexico and the U.S. to work together to make it so Mexican's don't want to leave their native land. That should be the goal of every nation.

But we don't need to put armed troops on the border to shoot down people you find undesirable.

That's why I pay taxes.

You want to pay taxes to have U.S. Servicemen and women gun down unarmed people? That's not what I pay taxes for. You obviously believe the tripe that was in that article-and that's what it was-utter bullshit. We don't need an armed border. We need a strong, prosperous Mexico. That's what the goal should be-to make Mexico a more desirable place for Mexicans.

then encourage my family members to come so that they can live off of honest working American's tax dollars that liberals so willingly dole out to illegal Mexican immigrants who have no right to be here.

That's only fair for "liberals" to do, since conservatives dole out money, and give IMMEDIATE asylum to Cubans who come here illegally. Shoe's on the other foot now, isn't it. And the Cuban immigrants are no better than their Mexican counterparts. They've made Miami a Little Havana, which the GOP is constantly getting votes from.

I do. My grandfather on my dad's side immigrated here legally, from Poland, when he was 7 years old. His future wife was born in America from parents who had also legally immigrated from Europe.

And you would have the U.S. treat Mexicans the way your people were treated by Nazi Germany? Short memory in your family, or what? You have the same hatred for Mexicans as the Germans had for Poles back then.

If you want that kind of America, I'll take my family to Canada. Such thinking is alian to what America has always been.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:36 pm

I am American, I do not want to speak Spanish, I do not worship their holidays, the nation of Atzlan never even existed anyway, and it's high time we militarized our border with Mexico. We need U.S. troops to defend our own border. That's why I pay taxes. I don't come to America to bilk this nation out of all the money and free social services that I can, then encourage my family members to come so that they can live off of honest working American's tax dollars that liberals so willingly dole out to illegal Mexican immigrants who have no right to be here.

I do. My grandfather on my dad's side immigrated here legally, from Poland, when he was 7 years old. His future wife was born in America from parents who had also legally immigrated from Europe. On my mother's side, my ancestors are British with some Indian blood in there too (Cherokee, I think).

All of my ancestors assimilated into America, and were God fearing, patriotic Americans. The same cannot be said for the invading Mexicans.


Why don't you go learn what the real issues are about. When you're informed and able to post something other than the jingoistic rhetoric you've just given us, you can come back and argue the issue.

Some people really are clueless.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
777236ER
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 9:49 pm

Mexicans, British, French, Germans, Italians, Russians, Canadians, Kenyans, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Iranians, Brazillians...soon Americans are going to be called anti-American,

 Insane
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manni
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 10:21 pm

I have read in various newspapers, internet articles and seen on various documentarys that anti-Americanism in on the raise in Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, Europe, now Mexico, nearly all muslim countrys,... Time to start worry guys an woder what's wrong with the image of your country. And dont give us the cheap crap of being jealous 'cause I ain't buying this excuse. Could it be that getting rid of Bush would already be a step in the good direction?
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
Guest

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:57 pm

Can I ask a question? I don't know if it is just me that see this, or is there something about Polish immigrants to America which totally sets them apart from every other nationality? I am only going by what I have seen on these forums, so I am not generalising, but am totally curious as to what the deal is. (Oh, and I know the Polish jokes. We use the same jokes but about the Irish).
 
jcs17
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:38 am

PHX-LJU wrote:
Front Page is un-American in my view because it routinely portrays liberals, leftists, and other people who are not far-right conservatives, as virtual anti-American traitors. If you don't support the war against Iraq, you are anti-American; if you are a dual citizen, you can't be a loyal American... Heck, the magazine even has an archive section called "Fifth Column Leftists".
Oh cmon, do you really think that this is much worse than what Republicans get labeled as by far-left magazines. Give me a break, as far as the left is concerned, the Republicans want to kill old people by taking away SS, they want put arsenic in the drinking water...Democrats having been scaring citizens for years. By the way, if you had cared to read anymore on http://www.frontpagemag.com, you'd know that the editor, was a former leftist and radical.

Alpha 1 wrote:
Great-let's militarize one of the most peaceful borders in the world, simply because you don't like Mexicans. That's Gringoism at it's worst. That's not what is needed. What is needed is for Mexico and the U.S. to work together to make it so Mexican's don't want to leave their native land. That should be the goal of every nation.

The most peaceful borders in the world, huh? Yeah right. That peaceful border allows more drugs into the US than any other. There are also hundreds of murders on the border each year. Try to find me a border town with a decent crime rate...you wont find one. I dont like Mexicans? I like Mexicans, I especially like the ones that immigrate legally.

You want to pay taxes to have U.S. Servicemen and women gun down unarmed people? That's not what I pay taxes for. You obviously believe the tripe that was in that article-and that's what it was-utter bullshit. We don't need an armed border. We need a strong, prosperous Mexico. That's what the goal should be-to make Mexico a more desirable place for Mexicans.

Uh, they wouldnt be shooting anyone....dont make irrational statements. The problem is that the border patrol is stretched to the limit. And yes, I do believe that we should put servicemen on the border. What do you pay taxes for? So an illegal immigrant can get social services? Or so a serviceman can sit on base 365 days a year? Give me a freaking break.

That's only fair for "liberals" to do, since conservatives dole out money, and give IMMEDIATE asylum to Cubans who come here illegally. Shoe's on the other foot now, isn't it. And the Cuban immigrants are no better than their Mexican counterparts. They've made Miami a Little Havana, which the GOP is constantly getting votes from.

Cuba is a communist country, Mexico isnt. In Mexico you are afforded at least basic human rights, that is not the case in Cuba. What an awful example, give me a break. You can thank Janet Reno for losing votes in the Cuban community, usually a SWAT team raiding a house, guns drawn, just to take a little boy away from his parents, and send him back to a Communist regime....Great stuff.

Manni wrote:
I have read in various newspapers, internet articles and seen on various documentarys that anti-Americanism in on the raise in Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, Europe, now Mexico, nearly all muslim countrys,... Time to start worry guys an woder what's wrong with the image of your country. And dont give us the cheap crap of being jealous 'cause I ain't buying this excuse. Could it be that getting rid of Bush would already be a step in the good direction?

Yeah, its our fault. Were successful. Go play with your Osama doll.











America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
B747-437B
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:54 am

just to take a little boy away from his parents, and send him back to a Communist regime

Actually, the raid took the little boy and gave him BACK to his father.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
manni
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:01 am

Jcs17,

I believe it was you who came up withthe doll topic  Insane

Great rhttp://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/311961/?PHPSESSID=aa0af835e23a1b0ad7c3b38836547304eply kid!

I haven't seen them in Belgium yet and I'm very sure that we will never see them in the shops over here. Kind of pathetic to make a doll of the most sought after man in the world, even if it is meant to be a joke.

Getting back to the FACT that anti-americanism is raising all over the globe.
Recognizing your problem, kid ,is the first step in the good direction to solve your problem. Luckily for the millions of nice Americans out there, you are of little or no importance when it comes to that matter.

SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
cicadajet
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:02 am

The USA *needs* immigration...and not just for "cheap labor". However, the border with Mexico ought to be enforced. Its irresponsible to the extreme to ignore the concerns of those that are feeling and seeing the consequences of this invasion.
 
jcs17
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:28 am

I believe it was you who came up withthe doll topic

Your point is?!?

Getting back to the FACT that anti-americanism is raising all over the globe.
Recognizing your problem, kid ,is the first step in the good direction to solve your problem. Luckily for the millions of nice Americans out there, you are of little or no importance when it comes to that matter.


Oh, I see, I am not a "nice" American because I do not agree with you. That makes a lot of sense, kid. Recognizing our problem? What, that we dont agree with Europe or the rest of the world on terrorism or Iraqi issues? How is that a problem? I could care less what the rest of the world thinks of us, as an Americans, I feel that the government has done the right thing in terms of Iraq, and most Americans do. Manni, you and your cronies, are always the first to point the finger at America for the world's ills. For once, why dont you open your eyes, take a look in the mirror, and stop casting blame on others.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
jcs17
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:34 am

Actually, the raid took the little boy and gave him BACK to his father.

The problem was that the boy's father was in a communist country. Lets face it, the kid has no future, like many Cubans, in the dictatorship. To send him back was an awful idea. Might I also remind you that the father was divorced from the mother for a few years before she tried to get her child to America. Think about it, the woman sacrificed her life to get her son to freedom, and what does Bill Clinton and Janet Reno do? They ship them right back to Cuba. If I was a Cuban-American I'd be incensed also over the situation, it was not handled properly.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
jcs17
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:36 am

They ship them

Sorry about that, I meant to put him instead of them.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
KLAX
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:45 am

I don't come to America to bilk this nation out of all the money and free social services that I can, then encourage my family members to come so that they can live off of honest working American's tax dollars that liberals so willingly dole out to illegal Mexican immigrants who have no right to be here.


How in the heck are Mexican Immigrants living off Honest working Americans tax dollars? It is to my knowledge, after living 15 years in Los Angeles (39.9% Hispanic population) that most Mexican immigrants are working their asses of as gardeners, cleaning people, maids, garbage truck drivers, construction workers, and other low pay jobs, all for the rich white man's benefit.
If you think they come here to milk our social benefits you are wrong buddy. Some of the hardest working people I have ever seen are Hispanic immigrants. Many work 2 jobs, and 50 hour weeks for dirt pay, with no healthcare benefits, or life insurance, while sending most of their measly little salary back to their relatives in Mexico. What happened to the land of the Free, of Liberty, Hope, Justice and endless opportunity that I thought we Americans are so proud of! I'm downright flattered so many have immigrated here. Its just more proof how wonderful our country is.

-Clovis
 
heavymetal
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:05 am

In the first paragraph, the author conveniently wants us to believe that the number of epithet laden bumper stickers in the LA area was in the "thousands".

Obviously, the author writes articles for ten minutes a day and counts bumper stickers the other 23 hours and 50 minutes to arrive at this 'fact'.

Behold the heart of the right wing worldview;...don't question data if it supports your bitchfest.

There are too many people in Mexico. There are too many poor people in Mexico. There are too many poor Mexicans illegally entering the United States. There are too many American companies hiring said Mexicans at third world rates. There is not enough regulation to monitor and penalize such companies. There are too many special interest groups trying to create an unfettered "freeway" of immigration from south to north. There are too many politicians caving into those special interest groups (and many of those pols are conservatives.)

So you see, the problem, dear boy, is a tad bit more complicated than the snarling bigotry offered by this article. Dirty bumper stickers and fans waving Mexican flags aren't the problem(I take it we should feel threatened by the glorious Irish tricolor on St Paddys day? Clearly disloyal un-American drunks hover in the bars). They're piss ant little side shows to the problem. But the people who publish shallow right wing tirade mags don't make money off of solving problems. They make money off the side shows.

 
B747-437B
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:36 am

The problem was that the boy's father was in a communist country.

That isn't the issue. You said that the boy was seized away from his parents. That was not the case. I was simply correcting your lie.



"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
B747-437B
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:51 am

Some of the hardest working people I have ever seen are Hispanic immigrants.

This makes it ok for them to openly flaunt immigration laws in search of economic opportunity? What next then? Let them steal stuff because they work so hard? How about exempting them from having to pay sales tax?

The end does not justify the means. If they choose to break the law and come across illegally, then they are common criminals. Criminals may work hard, but they are still criminals.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:16 am

and were God fearing, patriotic Americans.

What the hell does that mean? To be a good American - one has to be "god-fearing"? Is that what you are saying - perhaps I misunderstood you.

TNNH
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:52 am

Could it be that getting rid of Bush would already be a step in the good direction?

Well, Manni, Mr. Anti-America personified, Bush will be around for at least another two years, so that's a non-starter. Getting rid of Bush won't do much, because whether you like it or not, a lot of it is jealousy, so deal with it. You wouldn't like America no matter who was president, so you're crdibility is a little low on this subject.

Cuba is a communist country, Mexico isnt.

Ah, the old GOP chestnut-Cubans immigrating illegally on boats, so they're better. Get your ass out of the 1950's. Castro isn't a threat to anyone, and you're just looking for communist boogeymen, JCS. Mexico is as dirt poor as Cuba; it's people are looking for opportunities, just like in Cuba. There's no difference between the two, except to right-wing nuts who still want to relive the Cold War. You're a few decades behind the times.

You can thank Janet Reno for losing votes in the Cuban community, usually a SWAT team raiding a house, guns drawn, just to take a little boy away from his parents..

Jcs-get the damn story right, at least. Janet Reno got the boy BACK TO HIS FATHER. Those people in Miami-those good anti-Castro Cubans that were holding him Hostage, were relatives he didn't even know. HE'S FROM CUBA-HIS FATHER IS FROM CUBA. Get your frigging story right, at least. Elian belonged with his dad, not relatives who were using him as a political football. Again, there goes your credibility down the toilet.

The problem was that the boy's father was in a communist country.

Pardon my language in advance, all moderators-BUT WHO THE FUCK CARES IF HE'S FROM A COMMUNIST COUNTRY!!!??? That doesn't give you, the government, his relatives, little Havana-ANYONE-the right to keep him from his father. You really are way out there, Jcs. Not lust a little, either. You actully believe it's ok to keep this boy from his father, simply because where he's from? God help you, and the sick people like you, if you REALLY believe that. What a poor excuse for an American.

Again, I hope the moderators bear with me on that language, but I think this person needs a little slap of reality. You don't hold a child hostage simply because you don't like the politics of the country he is from. That makes you worse than the country you're trying to deamonize.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:14 am

Alpha 1,

I must say that it is very clear that anti-American feelings in the world have grown immensely since Bush came to power. This is an undeniable fact. If you ask around Europe what people think of Clinton, you'll see that most Europeans think he was a very good president, one of the best the US has ever had. And that was the general feeling while he was in power, too. However, when we ask the same question about Bush, the answer is entirely different. Many Europeans strongly dislike Bush, and it started the day he RAN for office, way before 9/11 or the war on terror. I live here, so I witnessed it first-hand. It's Bush people have a problem with, more than the US as a country.

For the rest I agree with your post wholeheartedly.
 
Superfly
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:30 am

My God but the sky must be falling because I am agreeing with Alpha1.


Jcs17:
Please tell me you aren't serious. I hope you are a fake user trying to embarass conservatives much like Leopold and Hairyass (Both now deleted).

Your arguments aren't even genuine conservative beliefs.


....after living in Atlanta and Dallas, and going to a college with a sizeable Hispanic population.


So I guess you are an expert on Hispanics.  Confused
Did you hang out with them or did you hang out with the rednecks who hated them?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:30 am

If you ask around Europe what people think of Clinton, you'll see that most Europeans think he was a very good president, one of the best the US has ever had.

I voted for President Clinton twice, but one of the best ever? With all due respect, he is far from it-he's middle-of-the-packs, where most Presidents reside in the annals of history. The biggest reason he's only average, was his stupid personal dalliances, if you will, of the sexual nature, that tarnished his presidency. Without those, he would be remembered as an above-average president, who was hounded unmercifully by his opposition from the moment he won his first election as for the office of president.

Maybe that's the problem, with all respect-that Europe is not judging our presidents very well.  Smile

I respect President Bush, I agree with most of his international policies; I have major problems with his domestic policies and agenda.
 
Guest

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:44 am

Jsc17, you want to make a point with a single case...so shall I....

You seem to go on about Cuba being a communist country and not providing even basic human rights. I am about to take a big swipe here at American policy, because it seems the Americans in Cuba are not providing people on "American" territory in Cuba their basic human rights.

There is an Australian being held in Cuba at Guantanamo and has been held in captivity for over a year now.

An article appeared in a local newspaper here in Perth on Saturday about David Hicks. Here are some facts:

* He has been held in prison, without charges being laid nor guilt being proven, for over a year
* He has had no access to any legal counsel. In fact, he is totally oblivious to the fact that he has a legal team, in America and in Australia, petitioning for his release from "Camp X-Ray"
* He is locked in a 6 x 8 foot cell for nearly 24 hours a day, 7 days a week; except for 2 lots of 15 minutes per week in which he is allowed to go outside (and then he is shackled)
* He is "allowed" 2 showers a week. That is shocking, especially when living in a "tropical" climate
* He doesn't receive any news from the outside world. All of the correspondence with his family is heavily censored.

And Jsc17, your government says this is humane.

What is this guys crime? (Well, he hasn't been charged with anything, so who knows). He was picked up by Northern Alliance rebels in Afghanistan in 2001, after the terrorist attacks on 11 September. When he was picked up by the rebels, he has absolutely no idea what had occurred in New York and Washington (and Pennsylvania). He was handed over to American authorities and was transported to Cuba and has been treated (read: mistreated) like an animal for the last 12 months.

His only crime was that he was fighting for the Taliban against Northern Alliance rebels. Northern Alliance rebels who were responsible for widespread murders, rape, pillaging, drug trafficking and a host of other crimes. Crimes which the "world community" seems to have forgotten about. The guy isn't a terrorist. He isn't responsible for any of the deaths on 11 September. He wasn't involved on those attacks. He was basically in the wrong place at the wrong time.

What about his human rights?

Alpha 1, I totally agree with basically everything you have said above.

The Cubans in Miami hold too much power in terms of politics, and when/if "capitalism" returns to Cuba, people seem to think that the Cuban people will all of sudden be rich and living lavish lifestyles. These Floridian Cubans are the same Cubans which owned Cuba under Batista, when the population were not educated, they held shitty jobs (both in "career" and pay), they had no health care, and they basically had the same rights as they hold now. At least these days the Cubans who have "no human rights" are entitled to university education, free state provided health care, and other "socialist" ideals. All of this would disappear in an instant once the Cubans in Florida get their hands in the pie once again.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:57 am

Aviatsiya:
I'd also like to add that after visiting many 'poor' countries including Cuba, they are a lot better off than the poor people I've seen in Haiti, Mexico and other poor Caribeean/Latin nations. True they are poor and have some restrictions but I felt lots of love, happiness and pride among the people.
Bring back the Concorde
 
seb146
Posts: 14045
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 4:59 am

I have lived and worked in communities with legal an illegal Mexican immigrants. There are the hard working types and there are the types that come here to leech off the tax-payers. Just like natualized citizens. My opinion: If someone has a job but is here illegaly, so what? Let them be.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:05 am

Seb146:
Exactly!
Leeches come in every color, creed, age, religion, gender, sexual orientation and social-economic class.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4796
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:06 am

Alpha 1,

The biggest reason he's only average, was his stupid personal dalliances, if you will, of the sexual nature, that tarnished his presidency.

Well, in Europe people generally felt that people in the US were overrreacting to the whole Lewinsky case, and that we should stay out of his personal life (mind you, this was a general feeling, and of course it neglects that he lied under oath, but that's another matter enirely). It is for that reason that people in Europe judge Clinton so highly: they tend to judge him purely on the basis of his achievements as a President, and not on what he did in the Oval office.

Guess it just depends on how you look at things.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:09 am

US troops right now are deployed in 40 countries and we can't even protect our own southern border!

 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:15 am

Dang it, what is up with the refusal to post links?.........sighs

Silent War, from ranchrescue.com

We live in Duval county, 48 miles from the Mexican border and 4 miles from the Webb County line. My husband and I live on a ranch, just across the road from the railroad tracks, on a major highway in Texas. It's a major highway both for vehicles and for illegal aliens.

My husband is a law enforcement officer, therefore he had to attend a TECLOSE training course one night. My in-laws were visiting and we were outside putting up new gates to compliment the barbed-wire topped fence that surrounds our house. Due to the number of illegal aliens jumping over it, it had dropped into disrepair. We spent our time outside talking, laughing, and generally being a ranching family, enjoying our life out here, discussing cattle, the weather, and all the little things that every rancher understands.

My in-laws bid their farewells and left my husband and I alone as the sun was beginning to dip and twilight was getting close. My husband, complete with uniform and gun, left to attend his course and left me alone to enjoy the twilight hours on our peaceful ranch. Soon that peace was to be shattered completely.

The day had been hot and humid and I decided to go inside and have a lay down. I left the front door open but the screen door latched. I had just laid down when I heard the sound of our screen door being forced opened. My heart froze in my chest. I lay there listening to the intruder ransack our home. To be honest, I was frozen in terror. When I heard the screen door slam shut, I decided to investigate.

I grabbed our .22 rifle and went outside. There stood an Illegal alien holding a bag of things he had stolen from our home, and he was now stealing fruit from the tree just outside our front door. I raised my weapon up. He looked at me with a cold stare and gruffly told me "Hey lady, I just wanted water". I pointed at the bag he was carrying and said "That's NOT water". He just stared back at me with dark eyes.

Then I saw movement out of the corner of my eye.....THERE WERE MORE OF THEM !!

They were sitting just outside our house fence. I knew I was in a very dangerous situation and that I was now way outnumbered, alone in the middle of nowhere. I decided that I was in no position to safely detain them, so I raised my weapon up higher and ordered them off my land, then went back inside to call for help.

I dialed 911 and guess what? No response. I called again, and again no one answered. So I then called the closest Sheriffs Department, in nearby Jim Hogg County. I begged the man for help, as I was in my home, still looking at the men who had just ransacked it: THEY HADN'T LEFT. They were standing outside, looking in at me. The man on the other end of the phone said that since I lived in Duval County, I would have to call the Duval County Sheriffs Office. I explained that the Duval County Sheriffs Office was over 30 miles away and I needed help NOW. I was in deep trouble.

He declined to help me but said, "Well, I guess I can call the Border Patrol". I screamed "YES!!! Get me help now !!!"

Well, the Border Patrol finally showed up over 20 minutes after the illegals had left. I was later informed by the Border Patrol Agents that they had been told only that I had "seen" illegals and that they had not hurried to get to my home, as they had not been told that it was an emergency!

This is the short version of my story, and I have glossed over my terror, my shaking knees and my house in ruins. But I would like to highlight a couple of things:

No 911 system. No one answered.
Jim Hogg county Sheriff's Office refused to respond to my emergency. However, they regularly respond in Duval County to non-injury traffic accidents and go even further afield into Webb County on occasion. So it seems that they only respond when they feel like it.
The Border Patrol Agents, after looking at the tracks left by the criminals, told me something that chilled my bones: that this large group of illegals had been stalking my ranch house for about 2 hours before coming up to ransack my home. That meant that they had been watching us, waiting to strike. It also meant that they SAW that my husband was a cop and they didn't care. Just how dangerous does it have to get out here before our government takes notice and begins to care? How many of us have to DIE?
No, these trespassers and home invaders were NOT caught
These illegal aliens trespassed on my land and then made it worse by breaking into my home and stealing property, making this a FELONY offense. The Border Patrol does a good job, but this was a serious enough matter that I should have received help from my local law enforcement. I didn't get any help from the Jim Hogg County Sheriffs Office, so I'm very lucky to be living in Duval County. The Duval County Sheriffs Office filed a report as soon as I was able to reach them. They are a great bunch of officers! NOTE: you MUST file on trespassers ASAP so that the Border Patrol can hold the violators. If you don't, then the Border Patrol will just send them back to Mexico, with no charges filed.
Jim Hogg County Sheriffs Officers LAUGHED and JOKED about no one answering my 911 call. WHEN are people going to take this matter seriously? What if I didn't have a gun? What if I had stayed outside a bit longer and got jumped? RAPED? MURDERED? Thank goodness I don't know the answer to that question, but it is on my mind every day now.
This sort of thing happens EVERY DAY where I live. Living under this stress is both mentally and physically exhausting.
"So why do you stay?", I hear people ask. The answer is very simple: we LIVE here! We should be free to live our lives without having to fight a daily war with INVADERS from Mexico. Our government gives the illegals more rights than our citizens...This isn't right!

But we stay on, we love this land and our lives here . Why should we move? We will stay on and protect what is ours !!

As they say, "These colors don't run ! " and ranchers don't either !!! It takes a TOUGH breed to be a rancher and we will show just how tough we are by NOT moving, standing our ground, and continuing to fight this silent war.
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:17 am

I don't know about you, MD-90, but I'd much rather have a mooching, Mexican illegal immigrant leach in this country than a law-abiding, productive, God-fearing, al-Qaeda terrorist who enters this country legally. But of course that's just me and you might not agree...
 
Guest

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:23 am

Is it only me, or is anyone taking MD-90 seriously?

I always find myself laughing when someone says "That's why I pay taxes", and then when you go and look at their profile they are in the 13-20 year age bracket and have "student" down as their profession.

MD-90, care to share with everyone in the forums exactly how much tax you paid last year? I bet that the amount of tax you paid last year would have bought a single bullet for an army rifle.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:35 am

www.ranchrescue.com, these are the people that actually have to live with this illegal immigration! You don't face the same problems that these people do, DeltaSFO.

http://www.freeopendiary.com/entryview.asp?authorcode=A553678&entry=10149 an interesting story from my friend Mark's opendiary

and, I only just stumbled across this website, so I'm not sure what kind of reputation it has, but http://www.rense.com/general32/LAmexicans.htm is interesting.

And why don't any of my links show up when my reponse is posted? They simply disappear after the Edit Message stage.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:39 am

It's called selling stock and paying capital gains, to the tune of $320. It may not be much, but I'm 18 years old, a full time student, and I don't have a job this semester.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:50 am

Rai, calling an Al-Qaeda terrorist "law abiding, productive, and God-fearing" is a farce, plain and simple. They don't believe in God, they believe in Allah. They are clearly only law abiding until the time comes when they're ready to strike. And as for productive, perhaps.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4796
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:02 am

MD-90,

Reading your posts in this thread, you seem to be a quite frustrated little man. You seem to be one of those people who wants to do their very best to discredit immigrants at every opportunity possible, and in support of that you print here these heart-breaking stories of people dealing with these people, failing to see the bigger picture. If you lived in Belgium, you'd be a Vlaams Blok supporter. And believe me, that's NOT a compliment.

BTW, a comment like They don't believe in God, they believe in Allah. says a lot about how worldly you are, as it is common knowledge that both Muslims and Christians agree that the God the Christians believe in and Allah the Muslims believe in are one and the same.
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:07 am

Well...Up until he conducted his operation, Mohammad Atta, by all accounts, was a productive, law-abiding member of American society. And yes, he certainly was "God-fearing". In Islam, Allah means God.

Although he didn't leech of social services in any way, he caused far more damage to my city than some "illegal-immigrant spic" ever will. There are countless Mexicans living in my city and I can say with authority (especially since I used to work for a governing authority) that they are productive citizens of my community and extremely patriotic Americans. I can't speak for L.A., but I can speak for my city.

Now, I do not necessarily agree with illegal immigration and feel the boarders should be enforced and those caught entering illegally should be kicked out, but people like Mohammad Atta who are here legally are a far greater threat to national security than a trashman named "Pablo".
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:27 am

You can call me worldly all you want but I know that the god Muslims call Allah is not my God. It is not common knowledge in my denomination. Yes, I am a proud member of a church in the Southern Baptist Convention.

In the 90's, my home state, north Alabama, has seen a huge increase in the number of Mexicans living there. In 1990, there more or less were none, and in 2000, there were many. They don't bother me, a lot of them work at the chicken plant, and they're honestly employed. I'm sure the same goes for many of y'all's personal experiences. And many of them are patriotic. But many of them AREN'T. They're Mexicans, they're loyal to Mexico, and they just want to get a job here and work, which I don't really have a big problem with or anything. But Mexicans who feel that Texas, Arizona, California, etc really belong to Mexico, well, I have an issue with that. Go read some of those links that I provided. Ignore the honest, law-abiding, productive American citizens that can't even go outside their house without carrying a gun. Ignore the 82 year old woman who lives behind barbed wire fencing and knows how to use a gun. Some of you on A.net like to say that gun control well reduce violence. Well, I suspect that the only way you'll be able to wrest away that grandmother's gun will be from her cold, dead hands.
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:35 am

You can call me worldly all you want but I know that the god Muslims call Allah is not my God. It is not common knowledge in my denomination. Yes, I am a proud member of a church in the Southern Baptist Convention.

What are you talking about? "Allah" is the islamic term for God, what part of that don't you understand?

In Arsene we trust!!
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Disturbing Article About Mexican Anti-Americanism

Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:00 am

The god that Muslims call Allah is not the God of the Christian Bible. Allah is the Islamic term for their god, not for Yahweh. You know, in the beginning the Word was with God, and the Word was God? The word Allah is never once mentioned in the Bible.

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