UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:19 am

Now, don't get me wrong. I love visiting other countries. I love history, culture, and people. I speak 3 languages, I've studied abroad, and have many frends abroad, but there is something I just dont understand....

Why is it that some people make it a hobby to bash the US? It's like everytime I turn around, all I hear is how the US is responsible for everyone elses problems. Like, it's our fault that UK beef was contaminated with mad cow disease, or its Pan American Airways fault that the Japanese attacked the US, or it's the US's fault that Saddam treats his people so badly, or its the US's fault that England beats France in soccer, or its the US's fault for the demise of Swissair, or its the US's fault that Afghanistan is a breeding ground for terrorists, or its the US's fault that British people have bad teeth, or its the US's fault that there was so much flooding in Europe this year, or it's the US's fault that terrorists bombed a club in Bali, or it's the US's fault that Sydney is not having good weather at the moment, etc. etc, etc, etc, etc.....

Honestly, I beg you to ask yourself what would happen if the US took an isolationist standpoint in the world. I beg you to ask yourself how many would starve, how many would be killed, how many would be poor, how many would suffer. Are we wrong about certain things? Of course. Just as your countries are wrong about MANY things as well. But you know what, you don't hear about your countries wrong doings, unless its something big. WHY? Because a lot of the countries in question, in fact all of the countries in question have nowhere near their political or economic standing as the US does.

It is not our fault that US has developed so quickly, in fact, I put the blame on all of the other countries besides us. All the US is is a large peice of land full of immigrants. Yes, immigrants. People who came here because of the harsh regimes that are, or were once a part of all the countries in the world. They left you, and came to us. They made it better, and you suffered for it. No fault of our own. With the exception of the slave issue, the US is full of immigrants who wanted to come here and make it, and they did.

Now, onto politics. You gripe because you say the US is too involved with other countries politics. Fair enough. However, US involvement around the world has led to peace, prosperity, and happiness, whether you believe it or not. Sure, there have been those instances where the US has generally screwed up; however, their triumphs greatly outweigh their failures. You may not agree with everything we do, but for the most part, it is for the better of society, not the worse. You call is imperialists, but then again, I beg you to look at the European countries past, and then I think you will find the true meaning of Imperialism.

How many of you want to visit the US? A lot, and many of you have. You all enjoy the luxuries that come from this country, but you will always deny this. Why? I guess thats what Im trying to understand. We have given the world SO much, and done so much for humanity, yet you still gripe and complain that its not enough. Pitty you. You people look for a scape goat for the worlds problems, and you find it through us.

What I find amazing is you hardly EVER see a US citizen on here constantly criticize and bash other countries. We are not like that for the most part. I just don't understand the mentality of other people who do this to the US. So why is it the US is destined to be "Damned If we do, and damned if we dont?"
I think its a load of crap. Honestly, I wish, just for one year, the US would take a completely isolationist point of view. Close its boarders, close trade, cut off aid to the rest of the world, cut off our media, our products, our business. Let's see how well you do..... (of course, yes I know the US would suffer, but it would be a neat idea).

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
keesje
Posts: 8856
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:39 am

Poor USA , everybody hates us ...

This bad outside world, they don't understand ..

Let's be proud to be American !

Do I hear the Stars & Stripes ?



"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:49 am

"What I find amazing is you hardly EVER see a US citizen on here constantly criticize and bash other countries"
Ahem...  Yeah sure
 
ovelix
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 12:50 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:09 am

Harold Pinter has written:

"How can any country, in the light of such blanket condemnation of its policies and actions, not pause to take a little thought, not subject itself to even the mildest and most tentative critical scrutiny?

The answer is quite simple. If you believe you still call all the shots you just don't give a shit. You say, without beating about the bush: Yes, sure, I am biased and arrogant and in many respects ignorant but so what? I possess the economic and military might to back me to the hilt and I don't care who knows it. When I say that I also occupy the moral high ground, you'd better believe it".

The whole article can be found at http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/Never_happened.html
 
cfalk
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:28 am

Honestly, I wish, just for one year, the US would take a completely isolationist point of view. Close its boarders, close trade, cut off aid to the rest of the world, cut off our media, our products, our business. Let's see how well you do..... (of course, yes I know the US would suffer, but it would be a neat idea).

You are right of course - it will never happen. Too many American workers would be thrown out of their jobs.

But it would be fun to see the rest of the world, particularly in the Middle East scratching their heads and saying, "What? We still have the same problems - in fact they are getting worse."

Maybe, just maybe, people would start to realize that their problems are their own fault and their own responsibility to fix.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
EGGD
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:33 am

I agree with the quote Ovelix has posted AND Cfalk.

Its possible you know!!

I think that the USA does do alot for other countries, but it also does what it wants, and thats what annoys some people. The mentality that 'we can do it because we can' doesn't work to well. But the USA still does alot for the rest of the world despite the slight arrogance/ignorance etc..

Problem is, if you help someone, someone else is going to get angry (either for being on the wrong end of the help, or not getting any help!).

Oh well.
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:49 am

You know, it was Bush’s platform in the 2000 elections to take a more isolationist stance in terms of foreign policy. It is that reason why I voted for him. He was fulfilling his campaign promise until…well, you know.

They hate our greed, but they love our dollars.

They hate our policy, but they hate when we do nothing even more.

They hate our zealous patriotism, but they are guilty of overzealous “criticism”.

They hate our “culture”, but rush to buy our products.

They hate our weapons, but they rush to build the same ones.

Well, you get the point. I don’t call it jealousy, but hypocrisy. The world would be a much better place without it…
 
KLAX
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:58 am

Let's be proud to be American !

Yes, lets! I'm real sorry that where I come from patriotism and a love for one's country is encouraged.  Insane


-CLovis

 
b757300
Posts: 3914
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:01 am

I think most here bash the U.S. for one of two reasons. One because they are jealous of the success, wealth, and power of the United States compared to their country. The other most likely reason is they just don't want to admit that the problems of their country are THEIR fault so they do the classic human behavior of shifting it to the most visible entity.

Now please excuse me, I must go put on my asbestos suit.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
zauberfloete
Posts: 297
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:02 am

It is not everyone that bashes the USA. It is foremost the "left" and fare left political side.
Therefore they blame e.g. the USA for "bombing down" afghanistan, while in reality the US operations there hardly damaged that country at all. I know, some incidents happend, but the whole afghanistan operation is a very small one.
Afghanistan was completely destroyed by the UdSSR, but that is not mentioned by the Lefties nowadays.
Also the extreme war in Tchetchnia is nor recognized by the left wing. I mean 50000 russian troops flattening an entire country back to stoneage - no one seems really concerned. And the Iraq issue is the same.
The communists and socialists have there point of view that they will never change, whatever the USA does. The US will allways be bashed by them as beeing "imperialistic" (boy I hate that childish point of view...), whatever the USA does.
 
DeanBNE
Posts: 246
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:06 am

Oh please don't any of you see the real issue here? The US has produced three offerings to the world that to this day we cannot forgive you for.





The Cosby Show, The Facts of Life and Punky Brewster.

Cheers,
Dean
 
Rai
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:09 am

What's not to like about Punky?

 
EGGD
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:26 am

One because they are jealous of the success, wealth, and power of the United States compared to their country.

Thanks for proving my point.
 
Arrow
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO O

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:27 am

UAL747 --

I lived in the US for ten years, went to school there, still have family living there. And I bash the US from time to time -- usually when its Commerce Department smacks a Canadian industry with a trumped-up tariff and throws thousands of people out on the street. I'm also quite happy to praise the US when I think it has done something good, and like other Canadians, I felt terrible for you all when 9/11 happened -- and I still do.

But -- I understand why you are upset. A lot of US bashing goes way over the top, and it does ignore all the good the country has done. American money rebuilt Europe and Japan after the war and we all conveniently forget that.

There's no quick or simple answer to the question why -- but here are a few to think about.

1. The US is on top -- the most powerfull and technologically successful nation the world has ever seen. Envy always sparks unfair criticism. Like every other world power before you, you need to develop a thicker skin.

2. Generally speaking (you appear to be one of the exceptions to this), Americans know almost nothing about other countries, unless there is some direct connection that happens to be in the news. US media totally ignore the rest of the world (again, unless there's some direct connection). For an illustration, compare the BBC World report, or even the CBC National News, with any of the nightly US newscasts and you'll see what I mean.

3. No one else in the world gets any credit for any thing. You made a comment yourself about the world benefitting from "all the luxuries" that come from the U.S. They don't all come from the U.S. Here's a trivial example of what gets people's backs up: Hollywood just made a movie about how the US Navy during the war captured a German submarine (U-275???) and a copy of the German Enigma encryption machine and how important that was to the war effort. Trouble is, the US Navy had nothing to do with it -- it was the Royal Navy. But a movie about the Royal Navy wouldn't attract an American audience, so...history was revised. Don't underestimate how big an impact Hollywood has on the rest of the world.

4. Americans tell the world they invented democracy. They didn't, and other democratic nations resent that. It's not a knock on American-style democracy -- just a request that you temper the rhetoric a little.

I'm sure others can come up with lots of other reasons why they flail away at the US -- but most of it is because you're big and powerful and you use the power for both beneficial and not-so-beneficial results.

One final note -- please don't withdraw from the world. That would be the beginning of a very quick decline for the US because a good chunk of the rest of world would be forced to get along without you -- and they would. That would mean some other nation (or block of nations) would be the world power.

Personally -- if I have to pick one nation in the world (other than my own, of course) to be a superpower -- I'll still stick with the US. You are better at it than most of your detractors would be.

cheers

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Staffan
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:48 am

If you want to be and are in a leading position, you are always going to have alot of negative feedback, humans unfortunately work that way, it's only the negative feedback that is heard. In a smaller scale, just look at this site, Johan spends alot of time and effort running it, and what does he get back? complaints complaints complaints... Even though what he provides with a.net by far outweighs the flaws of the site, most of the feedback he gets is complaints.

"What I find amazing is you hardly EVER see a US citizen on here constantly criticize and bash other countries."

If you say so...


Staffan
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:52 am

Arrow, you bring up some interesting points and I do agree with a lot of them, actually, but…

2. Generally speaking (you appear to be one of the exceptions to this), Americans know almost nothing about other countries, unless there is some direct connection that happens to be in the news. US media totally ignore the rest of the world (again, unless there's some direct connection). For an illustration, compare the BBC World report, or even the CBC National News, with any of the nightly US newscasts and you'll see what I mean.

I lived in Canada for 14 years, hold Canadian citizenship, was educated there and my family still lives up there. I can’t say that Canadians are truly that much more knowledgeable when it comes to world events or other countries than Americans are. And don’t kid yourself by saying the CBC is that great of a news source. I’ll agree that Americans certainly should do more to educate themselves about the rest of the world, but I don’t believe they are worse off than in Canada. Generally speaking, Canadians themselves are guilty are horrible stereotypes about Americans that would be eliminated if they educated themselves more about the country instead of relying on what the CBC says. That is as bad if not worse than being just ignorant.
 
kolobokman
Posts: 1112
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 5:32 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:13 am

No one is bashing US!
Yes, there is a certain number of people who voice a little healthy criticism, but they provide evidence to their bashing and deserve to be heard!
There is also a small number of idiots who bash, but there are some in every country. They are very easy to spot and ignore.

Ual747,
care to provide some serious examples of the bashing that concern you? The list you have up there is a joke.

-Я есть ARTIOM
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
airways1
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 3:05 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:17 am

UAL747,

you raise a lot of questions and issues in your thread-starter. Firstly, I think it is only a very small number of people who actually make it a hobby the bash the US, and each of those poeple probably have their own individual reasons. Most people who criticize the US, do so for a legitimate reason, and not just for the sake of bashing. Unfortunately many people cannot take criticism or see the other person's viewpoint when criticized, and just regards it as bashing. This is an unfortunate trait of many people, and since blind patriotism is much stronger in the US than many other countries, US citizens tend to regard any kind of criticism, constuctive or otherwise, as bashing.

Anyway, I think people very rarely 'bash' the US for any of the reasons you quoted, such as "its Pan American Airways fault that the Japanese attacked the US, or it's the US's fault that Saddam treats his people so badly". Rather, it's more often than not related to the US's foreign and environmental policies, which tend to possess 'isolationist' aspects, in the sense that a lot of those policies are based purely on a blinkered US world-view, rather than taking world opinion into account. So from this perspective, if the US did adopt an isolationist point of view, the consequences may not be as drastic as you imagine.

You wrote, "US involvement around the world has led to peace, prosperity, and happiness, whether you believe it or not." You have stated this as though it's fact, regardless of whether one agress or disagrees, displaying again the arrogance so characteristic of some people in the US, paralleled in the US's foreign policy. OK, US involvement, as well as involvement from other countries has led to peace in some situations, but there are just as many examples of where this is not the case, such as Vietnam and Somalia. And in answer to your question, how many people would starve, be killed, be poor and suffer if the US were to be isolationist, why should it be any more than now? There are poeple starving in North Korea, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, people killed in Nigeria, Indonesia, Colombia, poor in Haiti, Afghanistan, Cuba and suffer in swathes of Africa, with the US and the rest of the world doing far too little to help, the difference if the US stopped would be minimal. And no, US involvement in Haiti, Afghanistan, Cuba, Iraq etc. hasn't led to the peace, prosperity and happiness that you claim.

Your point, about European imperialism is taken, however, we in Europe realise this was a wrong, and is consigned to history. The point is, Europe has learnt from it's mastakes, and not repeated them.

What I find amazing is you hardly EVER see a US citizen on here constantly criticize and bash other countries.
Well, the only thing I can say to this is that it's completely untrue. It's just that most other people don't react so defensively and perpetuate the argument.

And how well would the world do if the US were to become isolationist? Probably not as badly as you'd hope. You see, most of what's available from the US is available from elsewhere. Some people may choose to use US-made consumables, but that's all it is, a choice. If these things weren't available from the US, there are plenty of other supplies to more than meet the world's needs. Technology? Japan and Europe. Oil? The middle east. I think those who'd suffer the most would be the US, all your exports gone, and where would you get your oil? Still, it would be interesting to see.

Another point, not directly related to your post, but I see many other posters from the US saying things like 'If the US is so bad, why are people from all over the world scrambling to get to the US?'. The distinction has to be made between life in the US, which is undeniably comparatively good, and the effect the US has on the rest of the world. True, many people would like to have the quality of life available in the US, but these aren't the poeple who tend to 'bash' the US. It's rather those who live in other countries that are affected negatively by the US's policies. They may not wish to live in the US, they may just wish the US would stop interfering with them.

 
Guest

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:31 am

UAL747, if you expect me to take you seriously in this thread, I would implore you to read and respond to my last post on this thread:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/312424/

Because I never did blame Pan Am for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.

You are inventing things here in your own mind to try and make a point; a point which loses all meaning if you use false information or accusations to try and make it.
 
Guest

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:36 am

I think what UAL is getting at here is that any one of us could nit-pick, and select things about other countries that we dislike, and harp on them. Not very many of us do that, thank goodness. But there seems to be an inordinate amount of crititcizm of the US. And there seems to be an unwritten rule: Non-Americans have carte blanche to say what ever they want, regardless of how much it might offend Americans. But Americans do not have the same priviledge. Americans' criticizm of other countries is labled "ignorance" and/or "arrogance."

Now, I'm not saying that all the criticizm that America recieves is undue. I know my country isn't perfect; I love it anyway. I'm just saying that there is sort of a double standard here, and that I would hope that people would be fair in their criticizm of the US. That's all.

'Speed
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO O

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:37 am

Rai --

OK -- I'll accept some of what you say about Canadians and the CBC. I didn't mean to hold it up as a bastion of great journalisim, because it has lots of flaws, as you point out. But I still maintain it has a more comprehensive world view than anything you'll see on ABC, NBC, or CBS.

However, put an average American and average Canadian on the hot seat and start asking each of them questions about the other country; and you'll find that the Canadian has a pretty thorough grasp of US history, geography, and even politics. The American will be hard-pressed to tell you anything about Canada, other than its somewhere up north and they play hockey.

What's discouraging about this is the fact that the U.S. and Canada have the largest two-way trade of any two nations in the world. No one buys more from Canada than the US, and no one buys more from the US than Canada. That has been true for decades. You would think, based on that, and based on the fact that we're next-door neighbours, that a little more Canadian stuff might show up in US school curriculums. But stop people randomly on the streets of New York and ask them who is the U.S. largest trading partner? Most of them will pick Japan.

I think that's why the US Commerce Department can wreak havoc on Canadian exports and trade in general (which they've done lately) without a murmur from anyone in the US. Out of sight, out of mind.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:45 am

To address my thread starter's first paragraph, those examples are of course false, it was more a humorous attempt to reach a point. Of course people don't blame the US for bad weather in Sydney. However, some people use this forum, and every thread in it to make it a point to say something negative against the US. It "seems" that no one ever has anything nice to say about the US. And, honestly, of course I dont thinkthat there are NO Americans who bash other countries, but it seems that way. Especially on here. Gosh, it seems that some of you require people to be so politically correct and use so much perfect rhetoric that I need to have my english professor edit my posts.

Secondly, for a lot of the technologies you speak of that you would be fine without the US in, well, a lot of those technologies were developed here in the lovely US for use througout the world. It's a double edged sword.

Aviatsiya,

You said in fact, that Pan Am Caused the invasion of Pearl Harbor. I do indeed remember you getting in a grammar war over what you said. Listen buddy, to blame and to say something caused something sounds pretty similar to the average Joe. Okay, so lemme get this straight, you say Pan Am caused the invasion, but I guess you dont blame them right? LOL, I couldn't wait to see your response anyway.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:58 am

I still disagree about the CBC. I think it purports itself as a worldly news organization, but I don’t think it is that much better than anything we get down here. Remember, this is a media organization that won’t allow American programming on its airwaves. That says more than enough to me.

As for your “hot seat” comparison, I still don’t believe that Canadians have as thorough a grasp of the U.S. and what this country is about than you or many others believe. I won’t argue that Canadians probably know more about the U.S. than Americans know about Canada -- then again, you’d be surprised on what I’ve come across since moving back here two years ago -- but Canadians harbor more wrong stereotypes about the U.S. than Americans do of Canada. I don’t know about you, but I think these stereotypes (and I think you’re guilty of such by claiming that Americans are generally ignorant) are worse than simply not knowing something.

As for asking an average New Yorker about the U.S.’s biggest trading partner, you’re a financial journalist, right? It’s a lot of New Yorkers’ jobs to know these things. You might be surprised again.

I do agree with you about the Department of Congress and some of their actions lately. But then, Canadians welcomed the steel tariff decision, didn’t they?  Big grin You had no reason to complain about that one.
 
OO-VEG
Posts: 1217
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:01 am

High trees catch a lot of wind.


 
Guest

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:05 am

UAL747

I have made my response known. If you want to "debate" the fact of what I meant by what I wrote, go ahead and do so on the "Pearl Harbour" thread! Until then, put up or shut up.

 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:51 am

Alright Aviatsiya...

I took what you said apparently the wrong way. LOL, but if you are going to be so critical of others, expect some criticism in return my friend. And, I have no intention of shutting up. LOL. You are a funny man, you are.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:58 am

And by the way, you are the one who started the debate on this thread about what you said. If YOU want to debate it, go to the Pearl Harbor thread. Until then, you "put up or shut up" you little American basher you!!! RFLMAO!!!!!! "Put up or Shut up" I think I used to say that in kindergarten.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:01 am

By the way, I appreciate those replies who are trying to understand my point. It's nice to have someone think before they speak.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
GD727
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 7:33 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:05 am

Ual747-I agree, there is way too much U.S. bashing on this website.

Maybe I am not looking hard enough, but I almost NEVER see the American members on this website bashing Europeans or Asians or whatever, unless they are provoked by someone else starting an anti-American thread. Listen, if you people don't like America, fine. But just stop your lies about everything being our fault! Think about it, if the Americans started bashing the Europeans, you all would go crazy, yet, it's okay to bash Americans. How unfair is that?

-GD727

Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:12 am

Right on GD727! I wouldn't have started this thread, but things keep getting out of control. Ever since September 11, the people on this forum have been ruthless, to the point of disrespect and hatred. Of course criticism is good, but non-stop bitching has to stop. We are not the cause of all the world's problems. Also, to people who think the world would do fine without us Americans, have you really thought about that closely? If you don't see how detremental the US is to the world, then you are blind.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:14 am

Also, we do see our faults. Of course. We have made mistakes, but the majority of things we do are to better the lives of ourselves or our friends. The people of afghanistan are much better off now. They don't have to watch in the soccer stadium anymore their people being shot in the head. Just an example. But do we get credit for it? No. Absolutely not. We get treated as if we are worse than the Taliban.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
airways1
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 3:05 am

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:36 am

UAL747, don't you think you're getting a little extreme now?

If you don't see how detremental the US is to the world, then you are blind.

Also, try using a dictionary to find the proper spelling of 'detremental', and while you're at it, you may want to look up its meaning.

airways1
 
saintsman
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:45 am

As has been mentioned previously not everyone bashes the USA. However I think the reason some people bash the USA is because certain members bite. A little bit of bait is floated and....

If no one bit then no one would bash because it would be no fun for them.

And finally, do not mistake bashing for constructive critisism. Everyone should be open to that, even if you may not like what you are hearing.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:45 am

I have very mixed feelings about the United States. I went to school in the United States and lived there for 7 years, so I am intimately familiar with the country and its culture. I also speak as someone who has a deep personal connection to the September 11 tragedies, as well as someone who has been deeply affected by the aftermath and backlash of the events. I've spent many hours in interrogations with US Government officials where I have been called every name in the book, been subjected to physical abuse and had civil rights denied to me in the name of national security.

The United States' strength when responding to threats in the past has always been that they have stuck to the fundamental principles upon which they were founded, namely those of justice, fairness and equality; and it is important that they continue to do so. The United States is a great country built on great principles. Those principles have to be considered absolute if that greatness is to continue and should not be compromised in murky political speak such as "proactive military response" (aka attack) and "alien combatant" (aka prisoner of war without POW status).

The biggest reason to worry about the US is the innefectual response to the biggest threat facing it right now, namely the threat to destroy the bedrock of freedoms that it was built on. The system works. Just give it a chance to do so rather than taking shortcuts that may lead to short term gains to the detriment of the long term.

I don't subscribe to the extremist position that many here do that the United States is satan personified and needs to be stopped. However, I do find it very ironic that in their fight to bring democracy to the world, the US is sacrificing the very democratic principles that they claim to be fighting for.

So yes, I will stand up and criticize the United States for many of their actions. I don't do so out of hatred, but rather out of love for the principles that the nation was founded on and that most of the world aspires to emulate. And just like a child feels let down and hurt when their role model turns out to be a sham, much of the world is extremely disillusioned right now by the way the United States is acting.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
UAL747
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 6:05 am

Sorry, Airways, I made a freaking mistake...God, some people need to get the 10 foot pole out of them.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Arrow
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO O

Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:10 am

Rai --

If I start trying to defend CRTC restrictions on foreign content on Canadian airwaves, it'll completely hijack the thread and confuse the hell out of everyone except you and me. Suffice it to say the issue is cultural, and has more to do with avoiding complete assimilation by the US than anything else. When a small country of 30 million lives cheek-by-jowl with the 300 millon-strong most powerful nation on earth, you need a little slack to survive the onslaught. But that doesn't mean I agree with it.

Of course we accepted the steel tariff decision. Our membership in NAFTA got us off on that one. What luck. But that doesn't make the steel tariff defensible in any way -- it was blatant protectionism, just like the lumber tariff, and the tomato tariff, and the potato tariff, and the threats to go after the wheat board at the WTO. Maybe now that the Congressional elections are over, we can return to some trade sanity.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Rai
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:22 am

If I start trying to defend CRTC restrictions on foreign content on Canadian airwaves, it'll completely hijack the thread and confuse the hell out of everyone except you and me. Suffice it to say the issue is cultural, and has more to do with avoiding complete assimilation by the US than anything else. When a small country of 30 million lives cheek-by-jowl with the 300 millon-strong most powerful nation on earth, you need a little slack to survive the onslaught. But that doesn't mean I agree with it.

True, but they allow British programming on the air. I find this selectivity a bit odd.

Of course we accepted the steel tariff decision. Our membership in NAFTA got us off on that one. What luck. But that doesn't make the steel tariff defensible in any way -- it was blatant protectionism, just like the lumber tariff, and the tomato tariff, and the potato tariff, and the threats to go after the wheat board at the WTO. Maybe now that the Congressional elections are over, we can return to some trade sanity.

I was actually joking about that. I concur with you about tariffs in general and the way this administration has been handling these trade issues. And most economists would agree with you and I. Unfortunately, Mr. Bush doesn't listen to us and petty politics come into play with some of these decisions, like was the case with the steel workers and the farmers. Don't even get me started with that farm bill.  Pissed
 
747-451
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:30 am

Rai,

Funny you talk about tariffs. The last thing we should be doing is giving Canada greif with tariffs. Their wretched, evil, disgusting government and miserable, arrogant louse of a PM and the arrogant Quebecois, Canada is our partner and sactions and tariffs are not the way to mette out our differences. (the only tariffs should be a 30%levy on Airbuses sould in the US  Yeah sure)

Secondly, NAFTA is a disaster for Canada and the US, period. All it has done is allow export of manufacturing jobs out of the US and Canada to Mexico (for cheap labour). What this has accomplished is that if the US and Canada ever needed to build a car or truck (or anything for that matter) for war, boycott what ever, we could not do it. before anyone says anything about "evolving into a service economy", yes that would happen in time. However, NAFTA has moved that timetable forward too quickly before the US/Canada economies/job pools to eveolve effectively.

The CBC is just as yellow and sensational as CNN and hardly a bastion of journalism with such headlines (on Newsworld First) "Mc Donalds making Frecnh People Fat!!" Really, that is so "Donahue-ish"  Nuts



 
Arrow
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO O

Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:33 am

Ok -- I gotta do a little defence of the Canadian broadcasting even though some of your comments are correct.

Rai - where did you get the idea that there is no US programming up here? All Canadian television networks have American programming to some degree. It's restricted, and the CBC doesn't offer any because the other networks have it covered. But we get the same mindless sitcoms you do (and we get some of the good stuff, too.)

CBC Radio has no US programming -- but then radio has always been a local affair even for the private broadcasters. There's no rationale for US radio programming in Canada, just as there's no rationale for Canadian radio programming in the US. Who would listen to it?

Offering American programming on Canadian TV is a bit silly, anyway -- my cable provider gives me all the Canadian stuff as well as hundreds of US stations. I can watch as much US TV as I want. How many US cable providers have any Canadian content?

The CRTC Canadian content rules require all radio and TV stations to carry some Canadian content. I don't particularly like the rules and I think they are no longer needed -- but people like Bryan Adams, Celine Dion, Shania Twain and a bunch of other Canadians who have become internatioinal stars got their start because of CanCon.

747-451 -- NAFTA has been a great benefit to all three partners, despite what you hear from the unions and the lefties. Cross-border trade for all of us has expanded significantly. Be grateful -- before NAFTA Canada used to soak the US for its natural gas (and believe me, it's a lot of money -- $15 billion a year), but now its a complete free market and for the last decade (other than a couple of years ago) gas prices have been dirt cheap. Without NAFTA, that wouldn't have happened.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Rai
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:48 am

Arrow: I meant the CBC. They have British programs, but they stopped airing American shows about five years ago. I damn well know that there are American programs on most other media outlets. Hell, one can argue that Global and A-Channel ARE American channels.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy You misunderstood my comment, but I should have gone into more detail.

I also agree with you about NAFTA. It's generally been good for all those involved. Unions talk a big game, it's them that should get with the program.
 
Rai
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:50 am

Shit! I just thought of something. This is a bit off-topic, but do CRTC regulations apply to ethnic media outlets as well? We can discuss this privately if you want to spare the others with these details.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
jaysit
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:06 am

...Afghanistan was completely destroyed by the UdSSR, but that is not mentioned by the Lefties nowadays...

Duh. The progressive left and middle of center were some of the most vocal critics of the post-Soviet morass left in Afghanistan.



Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Guest

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:31 pm

Do I detect a touch of insecurity here?

Perhaps when we see more humility, less chest beating and an understanding that the *American way* is not necessarily the right way for a lot of things - then maybe, just maybe there will be less *America Bashing*.

I may not like some of the USA's policies, views of it's citizens or culture but anyone would be silly for condemning USA and her citizens outright.

If you can accept constructive criticism your on the right track.

mb

(but then again you will NEVER be forgiven for launching onto the world the vile and detestable red headed, greasepainted freak Rotten Ronnie... And bloody Marcia Brady... Eeewww)

mutilate a mime
 
Guest

RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:02 pm

Mx5,

They complain about American bashing yet this forum is full of Americans bashing other countries.

They complain about the violence of others but believe that violence is the solution to violence.

They tell us that they're the best, the most powerful, the most intelligent (blah blah blah) but if we express pride in our country it's interpreted as American bashing.

I don't think that there is that much American bashing in the world, it's just that there are a small bunch of loud Americans who are telling us that there is ...




VH-ADG
(and for gods sake be careful about using the term "bagging" around them  Wow!)

mine a mime today....
 
747-451
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:04 pm

Arrow, Rai,

I stand by my comments. Nafta is a disaster. When Swingline, for example, moved out of Long Island City, a working class/middle calss neighborhood, it left a whole group of skilled laborers without jobs. These are people who have been doing this kind of work for many, many years. It is unrealizeable to expect a 45 year old factory worker who assembled staplers to magically retrain themselves and get a new job in a different line of work. It has nothing to do with unions and it is not like these workers were making tons of money either. (PS I think unbions are antiquated BTW) And being the "fry guy at McDonalds" is not "comparable employment" either.

On a llighter note, as far as "country sell out" Shania Twain, cant stand her. Way too much over exposure and she dresses like the Nanny (guess Canada is punishing us for polluting Lake Erie  Smile ) Give me Julian Austin, Farmer's Daughter or Paul Brandt any day...speaking of Julian Austin, I don't think I would mind at all more Canadian artists getting time on our air waves...As far as "TV" you aren't missing much by not getting american programs--why pollutte yourself with junk like "the Fifth Wheel" or tired out reruns of "M*A*S*H"...


747-451
 
747-451
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:13 pm

"Perhaps when we see more humility, less chest beating and an understanding that the *American way* is not necessarily the right way for a lot of things - then maybe, just maybe there will be less *America Bashing*.

MX5;

Glad that you add some interesting insight. I would also hope that humility an understanding on part of some of the European/Non US participants to atleast open their minds to realize that their way of thinking isn't always right for the US as well and that we would "shout less" if they didn't constantly belittle us for actually thninking our own way.

"I may not like some of the USA's policies, views of it's citizens or culture but anyone would be silly for condemning USA and her citizens outright"


I think you sum up the issue succienctly ...

regards,

-451
 
Rai
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:48 pm

Don’t get me started about LIC. I used to live on 23rd and Broadway in Astoria when I first moved to New York. Believe me, Astoria and LIC are NOT hurting in any way shape or form! I loved that neighborhood and only moved out because I couldn’t get along with my roommate (that’s a loooong story  Laugh out loud) and the rents were too damn high. I still go back there every now and then as my favorite diner is there and that’s where I get my hair cut. I hear the rents haven’t receded at all, which is too bad because I’d move back in a flash.

LIC is fast becoming another Prospect Park and has a thriving arts community, Citibank has their HQ in that eyesore of a building (great views of LGA and JFK though!), there’s even a small emerging tech center. I don’t think LIC has suffered too much since Swingline moved away.

It is unfortunate, however, when one group of workers is immediately affected by such measures. Yeah, it sucks, and there’s not much these people can do after they’ve been laid off, especially since they’ve been working those types of jobs for generations. That’s all they know how to do! But factory-type jobs have been leaving this country for years, even before NAFTA, I reckon. Not only are many of these trades going to Mexico, but also heading to Canada. You should see Southern Ontario’s “Golden Horseshoe”. Labor costs are lower in Toronto compared to Detroit and it’s essentially the same location.

But as we lose jobs to those countries, we’ve also been gaining some from others and there’s been a shift in the types of jobs in the U.S. A lot of European companies are moving their factories over here because of lower labor costs (remember, U.S. workers make LESS per hour than Germans do, but work more hours), lower social security costs, lower taxes, better productivity, longer working hours and less labor strife. Mercedes is now building cars in South Carolina. BMW makes autos in Mississippi…or is it Alabama? You know more about cars than I…

And, as I alluded in the paragraph above, our job market has changed in the break-up of jobs. OK, sure, we have less manufacturing jobs than we did ten to fifteen years ago, but we have a lot more service jobs. Canada and Mexico don’t have as a high percentage of service-related jobs compared to the U.S. Depending on what you do for a living, that’s either good or bad, but the economy is evolving and I think it has evolved pretty nicely since NAFTA. For all the Manufacturing occupations we lost (well, we’ve gained some back), we gained a hell of a lot of high-skilled tech jobs (many have since been lost, but we did well in that arena for a while).

On a llighter note, as far as "country sell out" Shania Twain, cant stand her. Way too much over exposure and she dresses like the Nanny (guess Canada is punishing us for polluting Lake Erie) Give me Julian Austin, Farmer's Daughter or Paul Brandt any day...speaking of Julian Austin,

I’m not really into country music (OK, I hate it!), but I had no clue Julian Anderson was Canadian! Nelly Furtado and Avril Lagrange are Canadian too. What do you think of them?  Big grin

I don't think I would mind at all more Canadian artists getting time on our air waves...As far as "TV" you aren't missing much by not getting american programs--why pollutte yourself with junk like "the Fifth Wheel" or tired out reruns of "M*A*S*H"...

Dude, you have NEVER seen a Canadian sitcom...and believe me, you wouldn’t want to!  Laugh out loud
 
L-188
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:24 pm

Dude, you have NEVER seen a Canadian sitcom...and believe me, you wouldn’t want to!


AND WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE RED GREEN SHOW!!!

Not a damm thing.

Remember if the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy.


Keep your stick on the ice.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
UAL747
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:33 pm

What the hell does this thread have to do with Canadian sitcoms? Or Canadian anything?

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
gkirk
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RE: Why Is It That Everyone Bashes The US But NO ONE..

Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:39 pm

Quite a few George Dubya Bush jokes out there on the Internet  Big grin
For Example...
What do Osama Bin Laden and Crabs have in common?
They both irritate Bush
 Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!

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