GDB
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30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:35 am

The 13th December marks the 30th anniversary of the last Moonwalk on the Apollo 17 mission.
The BBC have done a nice tribute, well illustrated and with good links;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2573129.stm

Just goes to show that technology does not follow the paths often assumed at the time, though as this article points out, the legacy of these astounding missions is still with us.

Wonder if they'll do a tribute when commercial supersonic flight ends towards the end of this decade?
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:45 am

IMHO, It would be useless to send men back to the moon. We have robots who could do the same job (Maybe even better) and we wouldn't have to worry about losing americans. If the robot conks on the moon, or the spacecraft doesn't make it, they can rip up the flight plan and walk out like nothing happened. Apollo 13 was a different story, but if there had been robots on that flight, they would have heard about the oxygen tanks and said... "Oh well, Sh*t Happens" and walked out of the MOCR with cigarettes hanging out of their mouth.

Thats just the way it works....


Or is it?
Puhdiddle
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:33 am

There are those that say America did not land on the moon. They have some very good supporting documents and photos but we will never know the truth.

As for the future, what is the point of going to the moon ?. Is there anything there we need ?, how much money would it waste to go there again ?
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:47 am

As for the future, what is the point of going to the moon ?. Is there anything there we need ?, how much money would it waste to go there again ?

EXACTLY!!!!!!

But, BTW -- I believe we went there. Why would American waste all the money for the launches, Blah Blah Blah, and Photos of the moon. Why Why Why, Just to send us into another depression. Boo hoo.
Puhdiddle
 
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yyz717
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:14 pm

When all those guys who walked on the moon are dead, the "human knowledge" of the moon will die as well.

Kinda weird.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:41 pm

Of course we went there i'm sick and tired of all this conspiracy garbage! As for why should we go back there? Well the moon could be useful as a stepping stone to Mars. Mankind will go to Mars in the fairly near future and the moon could possibly be used as a launching platform. Plus i believe the moon contains rocks which have a certain gas called Helium 3- i remember Jack Schmitt talking about it. This can be useful to make fuels. I don't think going back there is a waste of money at all.
 
L-188
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:54 pm

Hey Hkgspotter1.


You might want to watch yourself.

Buzz decked the last guy who tried to claim he didn't make it to the moon.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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yyz717
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:57 pm

The moon could have valuable mineral deposits that might be cost effective to mine in a generation or two, regardless of space travel elsewhere.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:04 pm

Plus i think the Japanese want to build a holiday resort on the moon in the future too. It would be nice to take a nice relaxing holiday on the moon. Oh and i forgot to mention the moon- especially the dark side is an excellent location for deep space astronomy because of 0 light pollution.
 
Guest

RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:13 pm

There are those that say America did not land on the moon. They have some very good supporting documents and photos but we will never know the truth.

HKGSpotter, please check out this website regarding the moon landing. This scientist knows what he is talking about, and he analyzed EVERY point the conspiracy losers brought up and proved them all wrong.

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html
 
EGGD
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:52 pm

The explanations given AGAINST landing on the moon were absolutely hopeless, with a little time and research even I could find more convincing information. The problem is these people who try to prove the moon landings never happened show their ideas to the average joe-blow who doesn't know screw all, so he just takes it in because at a glance (and the way the information is presented) it looks like it makes sense..

But lets not stray too far off topic here, We should celebrate the awesome achievements made by those astronauts!!! Still incredible today that humans have stepped on another world than our own.

Freaky.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:26 pm

Mankind will go to Mars in the fairly near future and the moon could possibly be used as a launching platform.

I don't think so. We have Highly Technical Robots now that can do the job for us.
Puhdiddle
 
GDB
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:10 pm

Robots could never replace a human explorer, look at the article again, compare the amount and diversity of samples collected and compare to what the Soviets brought back from their unmanned missions. Especially from Apollos 15, 16 and 17, the definitive exploration missions.
Why go to the Moon?
Why do anything? Invent anything? Explore anything?
Just sit back fat and happy and consume instead, like the Romans ended up doing.


 
Guest

RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:02 pm

Sorry, but there is only one Moonwalk which I will concur actually happened, and it televised on 16 May 1983.

National_757

Sorry, but your "expert" has failed to prove anything in terms of the materials which the spacecraft were made from. To prove that man has been to the moon and back, why doesn't NASA construct the original Apollo 11 program, IDENTICAL to that in 1969. And I mean identical in terms of the materials used to construct the various crafts, because it has been said that many of the materials used in the re-entry craft would have burned up on re-entry into the Earths atmosphere, resulting in the death of those on board.


 
Alessandro
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:11 pm

I think the 13th man on the moon will be Chinese, they have the will to go there. As for these who don´t think 12 US citizens have been on the moon,
I have a question, if this was a "Hollywood" stunt, don´t you think the Russians and Chinese would love to prove that it was fake and a capitalist lie?
Remember that this took place during the Vietnam war and the people in Beijing and Moscow wasn´t too friendly with Washington DC....
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
gkirk
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:18 pm

BR-715 said:
and we wouldn't have to worry about losing americans

Who said it would be Americans going up? It could be Russians, Frenchies or even Australians...  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
GDB
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:35 pm

This thread is to commemorate Apollo, not for those with seemingly huge deficits in knowledge and common-sense to indulge their paranoid, childish beliefs.
And if it WAS a fake, they would only have faked Apollo 11, (and explain the near disaster of 13? you cannot? thought so), if you are unable to get your head around that, much less any of the technical stuff, well I'm surprised you can even switch on a computer much less operate it.
Those who think it was filmed on a film set, clearly are suffering from watching too many real bad movies.
 
jwenting
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 12:08 am

Humankind NEEDS to continue manned space exploration.
We will have a pressing need to settle other worlds in the not too distant future. Population pressure, natural disasters, polution, exhaustion of natural resources all lead to an inexorable time when we either move to other worlds or die out.

If we (like some want because they think manned space exploration is a waste of money) abandon manned missions in space, we loose the knowledge needed to mound such missions and will never get to the point where we can successfully colonise space and other planets.
I fear it may already be too late. At this time we could not land another man on the moon. The technology needed no longer exists. The USA cannot build another Saturn rocket and nothing better has been created in 30 years. The USSR has collapsed, its knowledge of space exploration disappearing with it.
Politicians think in 4 year cycles, any program that takes longer to give a result that increases their chances of being reelected will not get funding.
At the current level of technology and spending (even if the latter is enormously increased but see above) a major manned exploration program would take 15-20 years to reach the moon, 30-50 years to reach Mars.
I fear that in a few years time, that target Mars (the first viable colony project) will have slipped to 100 years away.
I wish I were flying
 
GDB
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:50 am

It would certainly be very pricey and difficult to replicate what Apollo did, for a start Saturn V production tolling was cut up.
But you would not want to do it that way in any case.
JFK wanted a landing by 1968, an end for his hoped for 2nd term, and maybe a boost for RFK in '68.
So the original NASA plan, to use a huge (much larger than Saturn V) NOVA rocket to do a direct ascent mode, putting 60 tons of Lander and Command Module directly on the Moon was axed at an early stage.
Difficult, expensive, fraught with potential operational problems and unlikely to do it by the end of the 60's.

So NASA went with Lunar Orbit Rendevous, splitting the Lander and Command Module, and able to use a smaller rocket.
The almost forgotten Gemini Programme proved you could perform complex docking operations in space.

The same still applies now, with Shuttle and conventional rockets plus a space station, you can put the craft together in orbit. You don't need a huge booster to get to the Moon from Earth orbit.

As for Mars, the Robert Zubrin plan looks very do-able and affordable, in the spirit of Apollo you do what you need to get there and nothing else.
Previous Mars proposals have been full of exotic technology, huge spacecraft, every bit of the space industry trying to get their pet project on board. Unreal and unaffordable.

It needs political will to do it, nothing else.

This idea that Apollo damaged the US economy is rubbish, if anything did in the 60's it was Vietnam, the budgets for the two don't compare, by the late 60's the US was spending more in Vietnam in a year than it did on the whole of Apollo.

At least Apollo gave great technological benefits, including a real boost to computer technology, look what that industry has done for the USA.

So I hope the Chinese do go for a manned programme, it could get some fingers out of some US political backsides.
 
jwenting
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 5:50 am

Space access needs to be economically viable (and allowed).
As long as space exploration and exploitation depends on government funding and government controlled institutions (at least at the manned level) no large scale projects will happen again.

What is really needed is a means of making space colonies self-sufficient economically (in other words, at the very least cost-neutral).
I wish I were flying
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 5:56 am

Aviatsiya, so you don't think it really happened? Why am I not surprised, coming from someone who believes that Pan Am was responsible for the War in The Pacific? Not surprised at all.
 
777236ER
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 6:28 am

Aviatsiya,

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html

And I mean identical in terms of the materials used to construct the various crafts, because it has been said that many of the materials used in the re-entry craft would have burned up on re-entry into the Earths atmosphere, resulting in the death of those on board.

It has been said by who?

The ONLY way the moon missions could have been faked is if NASA launched an identicle Saturn V, took a ship to the moon, brought it back and made it re-enter the atmosphere. The Russians and others are no fools. They were tracking the missions. Given that NASA would have to basically complete an entire Apollo mission in order to "fake it", what's the point? Especially considering there's no way computers could complete the mission in place of humans.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 6:43 am

Very good points 777236ER, but it doesn't matter how many different websites or how many paragraphs you or anyone else writes, Aviatsiya is still going to choose to believe the conspiracy losers over actual fact. It's a darn shame too because landing on the moon was mankind's greatest accomplishment to date IMO.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 7:29 am

More and more, I think Aviatsiya is just waaaaaay out there, and he's not coming back any time soon.  Big grin
 
lubcha132
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 8:02 am

reminds me of a joke

What's the difference between Neil Armstrong and Michael Jackson?

Neil Armstrong was the first person to walk on the moon...





and Michael Jackson screws little boys in the butt.
 
GDB
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 9:07 am

I'm not really, as a non-American, qualified to say this but;
Any American who is not immensely proud of Apollo, and the other great planetary explorations like Voyager, is not really a patriot at all.
The only bad thing about Apollo was that it was curtailed and not further developed.
But what took place was beyond what JFK called for, which was of course to beat the Russians.
Nothing about further missions, with longer endurance, Lunar Rovers etc.
That implied only the Apollo 11 landing, and if it was faked, that's the only mission that would of 'taken place'.
This thread started with commemorating Apollo 17, go figure.
I won't even go there with all the scientists, from many nations, including the USSR, who had access to the 700+ lbs of samples brought back, they are part of this huge conspiracy too?
(And to prove that there is indeed 'one born every minute', as late as the 1970's there was still a society, in the Western world, dedicated to still believing the Earth was flat!)

 
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 12:19 pm

Yeah it wasn't only the USA who were tracking and communicating with the Apollo spacecraft on the way to the moon- it was literally the entire world. Australia played a major role with Parkes, Spain played a role, England played a role with Jodrell Bank, Goldstone in California, Germany and some others. Not to mention that some astronomers actually observed the spacecraft on its way to the moon through telescopes and some radio hams even picked up its signals from the moon. There is an excellent website called Project Apollo Archive that contains pics, audio etc. I will post the link as soon as i find it.
 
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 12:31 pm

Check this site out: http://www.apolloarchive.com/
 
zauberfloete
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 8:59 pm

In my opinion it would be useful to return to the moon, in form of a lunar based observatory compound.
It would be a fantastic thing to have an array of radio telescopes on the "backside" of the moon. That telescopes wouldn't be disturbed by the earths "radio noise" (with the moon as a natural shield).
Additional optic and X-ray telescopes there would add to the value (the moon has no atmosphere and magnetic field).
An observation platform on the moon would be a fantastic thing, and I think it is possible to realize it.
Manned spacecraft will always make sense too, unless we have robotics that "think and act" like a human (comparable to Lt.Cmd. "Data" in Star Trek NG).
Because on long range missions it is very difficult to fulfill a really complex mission by robotic spacecraft.
It is not possible to remote control a space robot from the earth for a planetary mission.
You have to program all thinkable situations and movements into the robot in advance, later corrections will last long and will be probably too late.
Because the light needs so long to reach other planets. A radio signal needs about half an hour to reach an exploration-robot on one of our neighbor planets, and the answer signal will also need about half an hour to reach back to earth, making quick responses to anything impossible.
We will never be able to predict all possible situations that might occur, and since the speed of light makes real remote control impossible, the capacities of space robots are very very limited.
If a robot is able to think and react like a human scientist, the case would be a different matter. Then the speed of light wouldn't be a problem.
But we are VERY far away from a Lt. Data.
 
flyboy36y
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:10 pm

EXCUSE ME!!!!

30 years since last ALLEGED moonwalk? Ok... geez!

Let us NOT become slaves of propoganda.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Mon Dec 16, 2002 1:15 am

Flyboy says...30 years since last ALLEGED moonwalk? Ok... geez!

Can you defend your position in light of the data and analysis of the hoax theory that overwhelmingly support the fact that the Appolo spacecraft did indeed go to the moon?

Anyone can say anything, but proving that position may be a bit more tricky.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Mon Dec 16, 2002 5:00 pm

I think people like flyboy36y are themselves slaves of propoganda. If you seriously believe that the moon walks were only "alleged" then you are the one being blinded by bull#$%^. All it takes is a visit to a website like badastronomy.com and your questions will be answered. Don't forget these Apollo doubters have plenty to gain by claiming Apollo was a Fraud- namely $$$$$$$$$. They write a stupid book, they get the stupid book published and then stupid people go and buy these stupid books thereby making the "author" richer in the process plus giving him/her celebrity status at the same time. I can't believe that TV networks and magazines actually devote serious articles/programs to tossers like Ralph Rene etc. These losers need to wake up to reality.
 
Thom@s
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Mon Dec 16, 2002 5:38 pm

30 Years Since Last Moonwalk ---> Is it that long since Jackson last performed?

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
GDB
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Mon Dec 16, 2002 8:39 pm

 
MD-90
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:08 pm

Marshall Space Flight Center is about 20 miles from my house, and according to rumor that I've heard over the years, the government has actually destroyed the schematics for the Saturn V series. We'd actually have to reengineer another large booster if we wanted one. We couldn't simply do some updating and manufacture new ones (personally, I'd just pay Russia to launch with their Energia heavy booster but that's just me).

I like www.spacefuture.com. Lots of interesting information there about commercial spaceflight.

And I don't think robots will ever be able to replace manned spaceflight. We're not God. I cannot imagine that we will ever be able to design an artificial intelligence that is as capable as an ordinary human being.
 
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Tue Dec 17, 2002 6:51 pm

There is a book out called full moon which i recently borrowed from my local library. This book contains thousands of photos taken by the Apollo astronauts on the moon. The most amazing photos for me are from the final 3 missions- especially Apollo 15 and Apollo 17. These 2 missions landed in mountainous areas of the moon- in the case of Apollo 15 they landed in the Hadley Appenines. It's amazing to see the LM sitting there surrounded by 15,000ft high mountains which appear so close because of the lack of air. Apollo 17 dicovered orange soil on the moon which was a real surprise. I recommend this book to anyone interested in lunar photography/geology.
 
GDB
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:25 pm

I've got that book Positive rate, and saw the exhibition of the restored photos at an exhibition in London in 1999.
Some photos were blown up the size of a wall, amazing, the sheer blackness of space, the fine detail of the surface and the amount of dust embedded in the spacesuits even after only a short time.
Also, the family photo left on the Moon by Apollo 16 crew member Charlie Duke.
Much of the samples and other scientific results were from the J missions, Apollos 15, 16 and 17.
Just when NASA were really getting good at exploring the Moon, with the Lunar Rover and other improvements, Apollo ended.
Despite being brought and paid for, the vehicles and spacecraft for Apollos 18 and 19 ended up as museum pieces, Apollo 20 was cancelled when Saturn V production was suspended and a booster was needed for Skylab.
 
zauberfloete
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RE: 30 Years Since Last Moonwalk

Tue Dec 17, 2002 9:38 pm

I also own the book "full moon", and it is one of my favorites.
The pictures in that book are fantastic, no wonder thinking about the high quality cameras the astronauts used. This book is indeed a must have, for all space exploration fans out there. By the way, I have a photographic image of Eugene Cernan on the surface of the moon hanging on the wall, which is signed by himself.

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