cba
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Bush Is At It Again

Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:13 pm

http://money.cnn.com/2002/12/25/news/dividends/index.htm

Moron/President Bush wants to ram a bill through that would cut dividend taxes in half to "stimulate the economy," a move that would only benefeit the wealthy.

I have to wonder whether this man is just an idiot or if he is evil. A moron who has never seen anything less than a silver spoon is deciding what is best for this country. That fact alone scares me. This man is sending this great nation to hell in a hand basket.
 
Guest

RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:50 pm

A tax cut? How evil can you get?! I mean I thought I'd seen it all, but now this!! The man actually wants to let us keep our own money! Does he think we are morons?! I, for one, will not stand for this!

Please! If it's government revenue that you are concerned about, there's a (very) basic economic principle that states that when taxes are cut, government revenue actually increases. I'd recite it for you, but then again, it's your job to get aquainted with the facts of the matter, not mine.

Sure, this may benefit the rich. It will also benefit every joe/jane who has an IRA or a mutual fund--I'm included in this group, and I make less than $20,000 per year.

Now, this type of tax cut may not help the economy that much. I see where those skeptical economists are coming from--the money that is given back to the public may not be significant enough stoke a fire under the economy. But I don't consider the government proposing that I keep more of my own money evil. If you think this is the issue that you are going to nail Bush on, then you better keep looking. In any case, it just goes to show how desperate Bush's opponents are--they can't find anything of real substance, so they feel they must fabricate, miscontextualize, and blow out of proportion.

Nice try, no cigar.

'Speed
 
Guest

RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Dec 26, 2002 5:46 pm

This man is sending this great nation to hell in a hand basket.

correction: to hell in a Kate Spade hand basket (they're cousins).
 
jwenting
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Dec 26, 2002 7:44 pm

Let's start a communist revolution!
Power to the collective, down with individual ownership!

Rename the USA to United Soviet States of the Americas!

That should cure the economy.
I wish I were flying
 
Matt D
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:11 pm

A moron who has never seen anything less than a silver spoon is deciding what is best for this country.

Maybe you'd be happier with these people running the richest, most powerful, and most diverse nation on earth, i.e. deciding what's best for us?




 
777236ER
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:20 pm

Matt D, KROC might be ugly but that doesn't mean you can insult his intelligence.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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yyz717
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:35 am

Bush Is At It Again

Bush is "what" again?

Having oral sex in the White House???? Errrr...no. That was Clinton.

Getting impeached????? Errr...no. That was Clinton.

Emboldening Al Qaida by not responding to the Yemen & Kenya bombings????? Errr...no. That was Clinton.

Fending off charges of illegal real estate dealings (Whitewater)???? Errr....no. That was Clinton.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
777236ER
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:48 am

Bush Is At It Again

Yyz717, I think he was going for the ol' "Bush is a moron" angle. Blowjob in the White House! They shoulda shot him!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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yyz717
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:53 am

I'll take a moron in the White House over a Rhodes scholar in the White House who defiles it by having oral sex with fat interns.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:55 am

Yyz717, for God's sake, is Clinton all you can bring up in response to this subject. The man has been out off office two years now, so stop being Rush-like, and get over the guy. Unbelievable.

As for the subject, yes, it's true that the Republicans have ALWAYS felt the best way to economic nirvana is trickle-down: let the rich get the immediate benefit, and the rest will trickle down to us peons somehow. It doesn't work, of course, but it's as much faith in the GOP as it the belief that Ronald Reagan single-handedly brought down the Soviet Union.

And, to be a bit balanced here, a president of either party will offer up such economic stimuli when the economy is going bad. It's not unusual in that respect.
 
777236ER
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:56 am

Wow, a guy....had ORAL SEX! OUT OF MARRIAGE!!

Guess what, it's happened a lot before and it'll happen in the future. Get over yourself.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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yyz717
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 7:07 am

Yyz717, for God's sake....Unbelievable.

Oh settle down. Maybe, just maybe, I was being sarcastic or joking. Oh brother.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jwenting
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 7:13 am

Alpha1, it DOES work. It just takes longer than the time until the next elections when they're voted out of office again by the lies and exagerations in the socialist election brochures.

What's so unfair in having the same tax RATE for all people (or at least something close to it)?
Why should I pay 80% taxes over the money I get for an honest day's work while you pay 40% just because I get paid more per hour than do you? (percentages fictional, but you get the idea)...
Even if your CEO pays the same rate you do, he's still paying a lot more taxes.
Because he has more money after taxes, salaries before taxes can be lowered which means higher profits AND more money in the economy.
That will mean more jobs at the lower end (to make all those goods all those people with more money can now afford to buy), which is good for people with lower incomes.

Just raising taxes for more social security programs will mean that in the end you get the current situation where everyone except stockbrokers and cleaning ladies is unemployed.
I wish I were flying
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 9:29 am

Wow, a guy....had ORAL SEX! OUT OF MARRIAGE!!

That doesn't bother you?
 
L-188
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 1:26 pm

I have to agree with Jwenting,

That money that they government doesn't take in taxes is going to have to be put somewhere, and that is back into the economy. There is no other place to do it. You don't think that corparate CEO's put it in mattresses or glass jars buried in the backyard do you.

It doesn't mater if the investor is the person or the bank that is holding the cash. Eventually it will have to be reinvested or else it isn't making any value, just losing it's value due to inflation.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 1:57 pm

Matt D wrote:

"Maybe you'd be happier with these people running the richest, most powerful, and most diverse nation on earth, i.e. deciding what's best for us?"

Well, chances are they'd do a better job than Dubya.  Big grin In any case, they would probably do a lot less damage to our country's image than Bush has done since taking office.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Fri Dec 27, 2002 2:35 pm

Emboldening Al Qaida by not responding to the Yemen & Kenya bombings????? Errr...no. That was Clinton.

hmmmm. Ok everyone listen up.

Food for thought:

Dubya is considered unilateral. But wait, so far he has consulted Congress to pass a resolution on Iraq. He has also pressured the UN.

Clinton on the other hand, responded to Saddam kicking inspectors out by launching cruise missiles at him on the eve of his impeachment. "Wag the Dog" anyone? He did this without consulting the UN.

He also responded to the embassy bombings by launching cruise missiles at pharmaceutical factories in Sudan, hitting no terrorist targets. He did this without consulting the UN, Congress, or even his own Joint Chiefs.

Bush may need hooked on phonics, but at least he read the rule book on a President's role in decisions on warfare a bit.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:19 am

Cba ... It never ceases to amaze me how a teenager can determine that a president is a moron based on a single, exremely complicated issue -- taxation. If you are so well-versed in macro-economics, how come you do not back up your opinion with some credible arguments?

Your calling Bush evil, an idiot and a moron does not make him so. Saying he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth does not lead to that conclusion either.

Here are some of the issues......

On the Adminstration's side, the argument is that lowering dividend taxes will spur investment, which will create new jobs. The people newly employed will then have money to spend, increasing demand for goods and services, thereby creating more employment.

The opposing side says that the tax break should go to consumers, who will then create demand, which creates employment. The higher demand will ultimately result in increased profit for businesses, which will raise stock prices, and result in new investments.

Obviously, there has to be a balance between the two sides. Rich people must have sufficient incentive to invest, so businesses can create new jobs, while consumers should not be overtaxed.

Where is the right balance? Economists are divided on this issue, but it's nice to know that Cba has all the answers.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
777236ER
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:21 am

That doesn't bother you?

There are far worse things in the world.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:28 am

You still didn't answer my question. Does that bother you?
 
777236ER
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:32 am

It bothers me to a point. Like I said, there are worse things for a man to do! Clinton did a lot more good than bad. Fact is the man was good for America, blowjob or no blowjob.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Matt D
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:33 am

Delta-Flyer:

That was an excellent post.

I would also like to add to it that it never ceases to amaze me how these very same teenagers all cry about how the taxpayers need to "help the poor", "expand health care", pay for this and that, all while living under the safety of their parents' home.

Wait until they go into the workforce on their own, and have to put in their 40 or more hours, find a place to live, put food on the table, gas in their car, and toilet paper in the bathroom, and see their GROSS versus NET income and where the disparity went on their pay stubs.

It's always easy to be altruistic and compassionate as long as you are using someone elses money.

Wait until it's your own. Then your tune will change real fast.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:39 am

Alpha1, it DOES work. It just takes longer than the time until the next elections when they're voted out of office again by the lies and exagerations in the socialist election brochures.

As opposed to the lies and exaggerations of the religious conservatives elecitons brochurses? Oh, please, grow up and give me a break. You sound like your sitting on the GOP Platform committe.  Laugh out loud It works both ways-and actually, you'll see far more "propoganda sheets" from ultra-coservatives than you will ultra-liberals.

What's so unfair in having the same tax RATE for all people (or at least something close to it)?

Maybe because the wealthies people in the country-the ones who can afford to hire lawyers to find every loophole-get out of paying most taxes as it is? This way, their lawyers will just be saving them less in taxes. The rest of us don't have that luxury.

You don't need to milk the rich, but if you're going to lower tax rates such as this, why not close up ALL loopholes in the tax code that lawyers for the rich can find? I have no problem with such tax cuts if it weren't for the fact that the very wealthy in this country are not, for the most part, paying their fair share becuase of loopholes.
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:43 am

Fact is the man was good for America, blowjob or no blowjob.

Well, that's where we would disagree.
 
777236ER
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:48 am

The guy's presidency should be judged on how America changed during his term in office, not his private life. Anyway, it's 2 years ago...
Your bone's got a little machine
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 2:16 am

The guy should have waited 'til the end of his term before engaging in his private life.
 
Guest

RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 2:43 am

"Maybe because the wealthies people in the country-the ones who can afford to hire lawyers to find every loophole-get out of paying most taxes as it is?"

It's documented that the top 50% of wage earners pay 96% of the income taxes. Get your facts straight before you get all emotionally involved.

Here is the IRS data to support my claim, generously published by the Rush Limbaugh website.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/menu/irsfigures.guest.html

'Speed
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:07 am

If Rush published it, I don't believe it, Normal Speed.

They pay 96% of the taxes? Bullshit. It's nice that you're here to defend the incredibly rich, though. Someone has to do it.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:13 am

The guy's presidency should be judged on how America changed during his term in office, not his private life.

Let's put aside the oval office blow job and the semen-crusted dress then, as you suggest.

Let's focus on the impeachment instead.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:17 am

Yes, let's focus on the impeachment, Yyz717, shall we? The culmination of a 6-year witchunt that began the day he was ELECTED, and didn't end until the day he left office. Do you HONESTLY believe that the Monica Lewinsky deal was worth throwning a president-any president-out of office? I don't. It wasn't worth the trouble, and the majority of Americans agree with this assessment. Most Americans think the Whitewater investigation was a sham, that wasted about $50 million of our tax dollars.

Again, why are you even focusing on it now? He's out of office. He's gone. He's not coming back. He's history.
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 4:25 am

What's Bush?

Signed,
Matt D
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:07 am

Matt D, thanks for the compliment.

It seems that this thread has taken a drastic turn away from the topic. Not surprising, since the issue of taxation is complex, and it's a lot easier to defend Bush by bringing up Clinton'sexual exploits in the White House -- it does not require any logic and the possibilities are endless.

 Yawn Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
JetService
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:52 am

Let's not forget that any incentive to bolster market investment is also good for the employees of the company being traded. The first thing companies do to equalize low stock prices is go to the payroll. They either slash staff or at the very least cancel annual increases & bonuses. So don't think for a moment that inciting investment is only good for investors. The second thing they go to is advertising. YIPE! Double-whammy for me!!!
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:42 pm

"They pay 96% of the taxes? [expletive deleted]! It's nice that you're here to defend the incredibly rich, though. Someone has to do it."

Well, you may not care for Rush, but those numbers don't have anything to do with him. (Did you even bother to click on the link? The source for that data is listed on the bottom of the page--and it ain't Mr. Limbaugh, that's for sure.) And the top 50% of wage earners are those who make something like $50,000 per year or more--hardly "incredibly rich."

One thing I don't understand, Alpha, is why you seem to have such contempt for people that are well off. What did they ever do to you? Where you scarred as a child? Or is it just that you are jelous? They earned it themselves. And you could earn it to if you wanted... But why begrudge them what they have worked for?

'Speed
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:24 pm

Haven't we already proven that lowering taxes doesn't help the economy? How many more nest-eggs are the Republicans going to have to break before they understand?

Oh, and news flash, Clinton isn't president anymore.  Insane
Dear moderators: No.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:47 pm

Hey All, Have you ever wondered where the republicans would be if it wasn't for Clinton? Bush seized power 2 years ago and they still blame him for everything !!! I think Bush is a L7 Looooozzzer .... The rich oil people in Texas are his only concern..... Regards DC10GUY
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
donder10
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:12 pm

'' Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households. ''

Taken from the CIA site.Perhaps the trickle-down affect doesn't work as well as some would like us to think?
 
777236ER
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:18 pm

The guy should have waited 'til the end of his term before engaging in his private life.

What nonsense is this? He may be the president but he still has a life. 8 years without sex? What does his private life have to do with anyone voting for him?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:40 am

Geez, 777236ER, I've seen 15 year olds with more maturity than you.

8 years without sex? Nope... that is what his WIFE is for. Hillary probably has a bigger schlong than Bubba though, haha.

It ticks me off to no end to see so much of my pay check going to taxes each time. I open it up, am momentarily excited to see the gross pay total, then i open it up further and a frown instantly grows accross my face at the actual pay. I'll take any tax break i can get! Thanks Dubya!

And screw you guys that think taxes should be raised... quite possibly the dumbest notion out there. Another reason his dad shouldn't have been re-elected.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
777236ER
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:43 am

Geez, 777236ER, I've seen 15 year olds with more maturity than you.

Awww  Smile

8 years without sex? Nope... that is what his WIFE is for. Hillary probably has a bigger schlong than Bubba though, haha.

What does it matter to you? The man was elected to LEAD THE COUNTRY, which is exactly what he did - well.

Speaking of maturity, I love some of your phrases: "Hillary probably has a bigger schlong than Bubba though, haha. ", "quite possibly the dumbest notion out there" and "And screw you guys that think taxes should be raised".

Penis-obsession, petty insults and greed aside, you don't make much of an argument.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Bush Is At It Again

Wed Jan 01, 2003 10:35 am

I don't know how this got to be about Clinton again. Bush is proposing a 50% dividend tax cut that would benefeit shareholders (ie the wealthier chunk of the nation). This will not stimulate more economic growth, it will only make the wealthy wealthier.
 
B747forlife
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Wed Jan 01, 2003 1:11 pm

Delta-flyer - And it never ceases to amaze me that some of the members here who aren't teenagers think that anything a teenager says is moronic. Now, I agree with you on the political principles of what you are say later. Just let it be known that just because we don't have experience in the "real world" doesn't mean we're dumbasses. I am a teen and I (and my friends) pay a lot of attention to politics. Our opinions mean just as much as yours or anyone elses.

Anyway, these cuts keep happening. It seems as if this should help the economy as people will have more money to spend but, I don't even dare to say whether or not the economy will get better. To all you who say that these cuts will benefit the rich: yes, this is true, but maybe, if taxes wern't so damned biased against the rich and for the less rich, a cut would benefit the country equally. But wait, if taxes were flat, then the people who work a whole lot and make a whole lot of money wouldn't suffer and we can't have that. That wouldn't be fair to those who don't make as much.  Yeah sure

-Nick
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:37 am

.....some of the members here who aren't teenagers think that anything a teenager says is moronic.

Do I think that? Read my post again. My objection is to teenagers calling educated, experienced people idiots.

I would like to respond to your second paragraph, but I am not sure what your point is. But I will make a couple of general comments....

Tax cuts always stimulate the economy. However, whether the cuts are given to the high-income or low-income segment will impact the extend of the stimulus. That, in turn, depends on the economic situation of the moment -- interest rates, inflation, tax structure, etc. Different situations demand different solutions.

Progressive taxation is not unfair. Refer to any first-level text on macroeconomics. In fact, even a highly progressive income tax structure may still result in a nearly flat or regressive tax when sales, excise and corporate taxes are factored in. Higher income people "suffer" (as you put it) less under a high tax rate than lower income people. Indeed, how much tax can you exact from someone at the poverty line, anyway? Even proponents of "flat tax" really advocate a progressive tax -- except they propose only two tax rates rather than multiple.

Pete

"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
B747forlife
Posts: 386
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:20 am

Delta-Flyer - I was just saying, that he has a right to an opinion. If he thinks some person is an idiot, that is his right. Just because he is a teenager doesn't make his opinion any less valid. How is progressive taxation fair? For example, the rich have to pay 55% taxes while the poor only have to pay 15%? That's fair?! No. The rich are getting screwed because they're rich. Why should they have to pay a higher percentage than any other person? they shouldn't. The point of a flat tax is that people at the poverty line pay a certain percentage, and the rich pay the same percent. Yes, the rich will still have more, but that's why they're rich. They either worked for their money, or they figured out a way to get it, why should they be punished for achieving the "american dream?"

-Nick
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:25 am

Why should they have to pay a higher percentage than any other person?

I'll tell you why:

We have two men, man 1 and man 2. Man 1 is just starting out his career, he flies for a small airline and gets about $30,000 a year. Man 2, however, flies 747's at United and gets around $150,000 a year. Now, if we used a flat tax of say, 10%, man 1 would pay $3000 dollars and man 2 would pay $15,000. But the thing is, man 1 needs every penny he makes just to live. $30,000 is barely enough to cover rent and expenses. But as far as man 2 is concerned, $15,000 is a drop in the bucket! He doesn't need it to live. And that's why he should be taxed higher than the poor.
Dear moderators: No.
 
donder10
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:00 am

The solution to that Nuts is to introduce a tax threshold but continue with the flat tax rate,kicking in at say 20k or so?
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:03 am

Well I don't have all the answers. I just know what the problems are.
Dear moderators: No.
 
MD-90
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:55 am

My mother is one of the so-called rich people that you are trashing. She's 53 years old and makes $90,000/year. She has two bachelors degrees and a masters, and she works hard for her money. I'm sorry about the bleeding heart liberals, but I think that my mother knows what to do with her money better than some federal beauracracy. Ooh, to make matters worse, she voted for George W. and never for Clinton, whom she thought was nothing but a big sleazeball and a sorry president and should've been removed from office for lying under oath. And to just horrify some of you, she's a Christian, a staunch member of the United Methodist Church, and she packs heat: a .38 Smith & Wesson. Mess with her and you'll wind up dead because she grew up on a farm in Mississippi and she can shoot. She welcomes the tax cut proposal, in case a lot of y'all are forgetting, there's this generation called the baby boomers that are going to be retiring here in a while.

Better to be judged by twelve than carried out by six.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
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RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:07 am

Don't give me your bleeding heart conservative "I'm too rich for taxes" crap! I don't give a damn. I'm not sure where you got the idea that government was free, it takes money just like everything else. And if you don't want to pay for your government, you have two choices: move somewhere that suits you or kill yourself. It's your call.
Dear moderators: No.
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: Bush Is At It Again

Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:17 am

Nobody has answered my question! Whats Bush???????

Signed,
Matt D

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