cwapilot
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Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:44 pm

It appears some European voters are realizing that, rather than voting for someone based on how much they America bash, they ought to vote based on what their actual performance is.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/BUSINESS/02/05/german.jobs/index.html
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
Andreas
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:08 am

Sorry cwapilot but you take yourself too seriously! The relationship to the USA is a problem that is definitely overrated in the media, and clearly the opposite of what people in Germany really moves. I can tell that much: It's not the USA! German people are traditionally friendly toward the US (don't believe those backwood crazies here on the Forum, believe a German), but currently the media campaigns are just getting on the nerves of everybody. Our problems are indeed home-made: taxes, unemployment, budget deficit, healthcare, oldage-pensions...pick your choice. Iraq is way back on our list of priorities and, yes, we do know a thing or two about terrorism (Red Army Fraction, if someone still knows who that was).

As for the election results: Don't even try to interpret this a reaction of the voters to some sort of US-bashing, if that's what you're getting at!!! As I said, there is no US-bashing except in the media, and the result was a hard and swift and well-deserved kick straight into the balls of out federal government...period! Nothing else!! even the conservative winners know this, not one of them said in any interview that the German people are now changing their mind.
Besides, most CDO politicians are also not supporting the war against Iraq, but again, this is not very high on their list of priorities!

btw I read a funny piece in a rather liberal news magazine Spiegel online about the problems between Germany and the USA: It's a actually a religious conflict: The ultraright American evangelists vs. the christian German peace movement...a rather funny idea and I had myself a good laugh!!

Hope that helps

Andreas
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
cwapilot
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:14 am

I'm not attempting to make light of the problems Germany is facing, nor do I believe that all Germans are as anti-American as the media outlets and those on this forum make them out to be. It is a response to people on this forum, more than anything else, so that we have a brief change from the daily myriad of Bush-bashing posts. We need a little variety! I am also willing to bet that those who regularly bash George W. Bush, although they are not US citizens yet feel entitled to do so, are now sharpening their axes to bash me over why I have no right to comment on the German leader! Just a little irony for us this morning, or afternoon, depending on where you are.

Also, I was referring to Schroeder's election win, in which his anti-American stance is more than likely what put him over the top. The second, more recent (we would call them a "midterm" election here) results are just everything starting to come home to roost.

Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
Andreas
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:30 am

Well as a matter of fact, it is rather unusual for Germans to be insulted if someone attacks their head of state, so I guess nobody in his right mind will bash you for this, certainly no Germans, over such a non-issue.

As for Schroeder's election tactics: Yes you are right, his clear statement about war against Iraq might have helped him to gain a few points...the election was basically won elsewhere: the junior partner FDP of the other candidate happened to make a very bad mistake just one week before the elections: One of their most famous members issued a flyer that was extremely ANTI-Israel, and he and the whole party were bashed heavily for this, it probably cost them 2 percent which would have been more than enough to kick Mr. Schroeder out of office!! I guess most people in the USA don't know this...people in Germany were outraged at this ridiculous pamphlet!!

Again: Most politicians in Germany are against war, that goes for most conservative politicians, too!! But they are not anti-USA and certainly not anti-israel, as this big scandal clearly proved!

Last Sunday Mr. Schroeder got the voters kick in the ass for his tactics during election time and shortly thereafter. Political majorities are now pretty balanced in this country, which makes deciding pretty hard, in fact we have now some sort of big coalition, though many members of Schroeders party are still trying to deny! Interesting times ahead!


btw: I found this piece about the religious quarrel going between both countries rather amusing...think about it...it's true!
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NoUFO
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:11 am

German people are traditionally friendly toward the US (don't believe those backwood crazies here on the Forum, believe a German)

Believe two Germans ...  Smile

As I said, there is no US-bashing except in the media,

Depends on the media. I regulary read "Die Zeit" (liberal by European means) and frequently "Süddeutsche Zeitung" (liberal, too) and - if waiting for boarding on a LH-flight - "Frankfurter Allgemeine" (conservative), and I hardly found any US-bashing. In doubt it was Schröder who earned more criticism of his foreign policies.

NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
NoUFO
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:57 am

Btw: it is often said that Germany would lack patriots. If that's true, those very few patriots are obviously frequent visitors of this forum, hehehe ...  Big thumbs up

NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
747-451
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:05 pm

...pick your choice. Iraq is way back on our list of priorities and, yes, we do know a thing or two about terrorism (Red Army Fraction, if someone still knows who that was)...

It was the Red Army Faction and that was led by Fusako Shigenobu and based in Japan and the Lebanon..Baader-Meinhoff was an ideological terror group based in Germany in the 1970's that was alligned with the Read Army Faction.



 
NoUFO
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:32 pm

...pick your choice. Iraq is way back on our list of priorities

Hmm, on second thoughts I wonder if thats true. No day passes without reports on Iraq.

NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
racko
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:39 pm

747-451, the Baader-Meinhof group called themselves "Rote Armee Fraktion" ("red army f(r)action" - both translations fit), it was founded in 1970. The Japanese terrorist group was called Red Army faction aswell, as they both regarded themselves as a part of a world wide communist movement. The most famous action of the German RAF was the kidnapping of the president of the German employers association and board member of Daimler Benz, Hanns-Martin Schleyer (who was murdered by them 1 month later) and the hijacking of the Lufthansa 737 "Landshut" by their palestine allies (the plane was freed by the GSG-9). After the GSG-9 had stormed the 737 successfully all heads of the RAF commited suicide in prison. After that there was a so-called 3rd generation of the RAF who attacked German politicans and industrials aswell as US forces during the 80's. In 1998 the remaining members (who had not been imprisoned or killed) announced that their "war vs. the imperial German state" was lost.

 
Andreas
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NoUFO: I Don't Actually Believe...

Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:32 pm

that the German government is pondering on Iraq questions all the time, it's the media that does so, because it is much more spectacular to talk about the ridiculous provocations of a certain Herr Rumsfeld, who is about to enjoy bavarian hospitality in Munich, I guess he wouldn't want to travel to Cuba or Lybia, but Munich seems to be ok, though he just put it on the same level as Havanna and Tripoli....
Well, at least I hope the German government deals with much more important problems than the ravings of old men.

btw: It does certainly not prove political common sense to send a religious rightwinger from the Middlewest to Europe let alone to Berlin as Ambassador... US-Boys, spare me the information that the US government can do whatever they like...sure they can, except the man is a regular non-issue in Germany and I wonder if this the right way to work as an ambassador.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
TriStar500
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:48 pm

I am really enjoying the verbal escapades of ol' Rummy lately. He is an awesome parody of a 1950's cold war defense secretary. Big grin

Call me weird but I am really looking forward to his next insult against our country! Funny dude. Too bad he has so much power.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Andreas
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TriStar: Take A Look At Today's

Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:07 pm

Spiegel Online, there's a story about the "kaff" near Bremen, where his family comes from, and some pics Big grin Big grin Big grin
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
racko
Posts: 4548
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:58 pm

In the current Spiegel issue there is an 1 page article about how Rumsi searched his relatives in Südweyhe (sp?) near Bremen  Smile
 
TriStar500
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:45 pm

Guys, leave ol' Rummy alone! Don't you have any respect for senior citizens!?! Today's youth really shows no respect for anything and anyone... (sigh) Big grin
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Klaus
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TriStar500

Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:09 am

TriStar500: Guys, leave ol' Rummy alone! Don't you have any respect for senior citizens!?! Today's youth really shows no respect for anything and anyone... (sigh)  Big grin

Still, dementia´s settling in early on him, it appears... Big grin
 
747-451
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Fri Feb 07, 2003 5:46 am

Racko--

Thanks for the info; I do recall several terrorist groups from the 70's; though some of the information I have read isn't as concise as I would have liked.

Am I also correct that BM also caused explosions in several department stores in Germany too?


Chris
 
racko
Posts: 4548
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RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Fri Feb 07, 2003 7:04 am

The department store bombs in 1968 were caused by Andreas Baader together with his girlfriend Gudrun Ensslin and some other friendsin order to protest against the Vietnam war. All the terrorists were imprisoned one day later, Baader escaped from the prison and was caught again some weeks later. After some time in prison and in the underground, Baader was again imprisoned in 1970 (don't remember why). In May 1970, he is freed by a group led by the journalist Ulrike Meinhof. After that, they sent a letter to a press agency claiming the foundation of the "Rote Armee Fraktion".

Funny thing about the name Baader-Meinhof is that the two spent most of time in prison, and many of the terrorist attacks, kidnappings etc. were done in order to free them (wasn't successful as the German government didn't even consider letting them go)
 
747-451
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Schroeder Faces ToughER Problems At Home

Sat Feb 08, 2003 2:11 am

Racko;

Thanks for the clrifications.

It is interesting to discuss the "history of terrorism....

I think I'll start a thread...

Chris

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