Matt D
Topic Author
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:12 am

I can't imagine for a minute anyone that actually supports any terrorist act. But forget method for a minute.

I'm more and more interested at the underlying factors.

Do you feel that any terrorist organization or group has/have any legitimate grievances? Or are they simply the whacked out losers everyone makes them out to be? Most of us saw the events of Sept 11 as a tragedy, and wanted Arab blood to flow.

How did that event appear through the eyes of most Arabs? Was it the act of madmen, or a well thought out blinding strike out of some underlying frustration?

Take Timothy McVeigh for example. Or the Unabomber. I think that their methods and deeds were abominable to say the least. But in all objectivity, their issues with Big Brother/Martial Law Government and "1984 Orwellian Technology" did, in my opinion have some very valid points.

It's just a shame that they used the methods they did to get their messages across.

Now take the never ending Israel/Palestine/USA issue. Do you feel the Palestinians have been legitimately wronged, or is their issue driven largely by their jealousy of our way of life?

same thing with the Arab terrorists. Have we really wronged them in some way, or are they just bitter about the fact that they were once a World Class People now reduced to living in rock caves amidst crumbled buildings?
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:18 am

Well, it's all about point of view. If you are conditioned to believe something is legitimate, then it is legitimate. If you are conditioned to think something is absured, then it's absured. It's all about point of view, and one of the many flaws of humans is the inability to see the other side.

On that note, I've been conditioned to think that the terrorists are wrong, as has most of the western world.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:18 am

Yes and no.

Yes, Palestine was initially very hardly done by. Very badly treated. But no it wasn't all Israel's fault (the other Arab countries as well as the West have to take a lot of the blame). However, that hatred has now developed so far that many Palestinians and Israelis just want to see the other side annihilated. Bummer.

Re: the Arab hate of the West. It has very little to do with jealousy, but a lot to do with Western support of dictator governments and Israel, fuelled by extremist nut cases who try to say that the West is the great Satan. But although your average Arab will disagree with many Western policies, only a tiny minority are terrorists. I know, I used to live there. Nice place the Middle East with amazing history and culture, but many Westerners will never get to see it because of the actions of a hardcore of fundamentalist crack-heads.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:19 am

I think the primary gripe that the Arab society has with the Western world is the continued perceived attempts by the West to shove their society and values down the Arab throat. This resentment has been in place for generations, but has come to a head following the stationing of US troops in the Middle East during and after the Gulf War. That has been the catalyst for the latest round of violence. The perceived Western support for Israel has also not helped.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:21 am

And I honestly also believe that should the West decide to impose a fair settlement between Israel and Palestine (not favouring either side) then a lot of the anti-West hatred will go away, as there will be no more coverage of dead Palestinian kids on Arab TV
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:25 am

It depends on which side you stay...
For Hitler, the Resistants were terrorists.
And resistants were considering themselves as fighters...

When Saddam was fighting Iran, he was good and Rumsfeld was very happy to help him. Today, for the same Rumsfeld, he is a monster helping terrorists groups...  Nuts

Teva  Innocent
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:36 am

Terrorists are just the scum at the crest of the wave... but that wave does exist and does have substance.

Take any kind of terrorism anywhere in the world and you´ll almost always find a legitimate grievance underneath the carnage, the crazed egoism and the fanaticism.

The trouble is that the violent lunatics rarely help their presumed cause. In most cases, they only seem to help themselves at whatever cost to the real victims on either side. They are using a formerly legitimate cause to accumulate power or influence. Or at least they try to.


I do indeed believe there are some valid points people in several muslim countries could raise against "the west"; None of those can be helped by fanaticism and most are based on past blunders and/or injustice. But there´s no way of denying that they need to be taken seriously - just as much as "the west" can request to be taken seriously when it comes to the victims of islamist terrorism.
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:39 am

UAL747 said .. Well, it's all about point of view. If you are conditioned to believe something is legitimate, then it is legitimate

I think this hits it on the nail, many of the arab nations have been conditioned to think that Israel is the great satan. The Palestinians whether they are right or not, it isnt hard to understand why they have a problem and a hatred, they have an actual conflict with Israel, so they are at least involved. Iran, Iraq etc seem to hate Israel just as much, but in their case it is clearly conditioning as they are not in direct conflict. The few Iranians I know made it abundantly clear that they were tought Israelies were evil and melt down little arab boys blood etc. They were tought this from a young age, and even to this day, they say that even though they know it is not true, they still are afraid of that happening.

That is conditioning.

The same rules in reverse, we are told terrorists are bad, the reality is that the terrorists have a legitimate greivance, but I think their blame is slightly misguided. People starving in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq all blame the US and Israel for their poverty, when their is clearly enough wealth within these countries for everyone to be fed. This is the foundation of how dictatorships work, they need an enemy to blame for the populations hardships. 1 day of oil in Saudi, Iraq etc would feed the entire population for a year, but they see none of it as the princes buy more Mercedes.

With no access to world news, world opinion and lastly a choice of information, I am not surprised that many in these places think that America and Israel is the reason for their sufference.

That said, America has made some poor decisions and has to accept fallout from this, but the fallout is clearly disproportional to the actions. WTO , EU all make these same good decisions and bad decisions, they are not facing the same level of criticism.

Human nature has always been to try to bring down the big boy, and at the moment this is the USA.

I think it would be interesting to see what happened if the US and Israel didnt exist, who would they blame for their starvation ? what would the justification be for 30,000 princes having mercs while the population starved ?

Conditioning it is....

Jeremy

 
Guest

RE: The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 4:22 am

And I honestly also believe that should the West decide to impose a fair settlement between Israel and Palestine (not favouring either side) then a lot of the anti-West hatred will go away, as there will be no more coverage of dead Palestinian kids on Arab TV

I think there will still be intense hatred of Israel, but less of a reason to act on it.

TNNH
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: The Flip Side: From The Terrorists View

Sat Feb 08, 2003 4:34 am

And I honestly also believe that should the West decide to impose a fair settlement between Israel and Palestine


Was 97% of what they asked for not considered fair ? thats what Barak offered Arafat, and that wasnt considered fair. Fair to Hamas is Israelies drowning in the sea.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aesma, Baidu [Spider] and 29 guests