wardialer
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My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 12:34 pm

The Space Shuttle Columbia self-destructed by the astronauts because the shuttle did not have a chance to make it onto the runway. They did not want anymore destruction or casualties on the ground. And also, they wanted to protect Orlando esp. Disneyland.

It was traveling at 21,000 mph @ 207,000 feet at a steep angle so they figured they will overshoot the runway. So again, the astronauts self-destructed Columbia. They probably wanted to do the right thing. Not cause more deaths on the ground.
 
Soku39
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 12:47 pm

Stay of the herb pal... stay of the herb.
The Ohio Player
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 12:55 pm

As NASA astronauts and pilots, i bet the crew knew what they were doing and even if they were too steep and too fast, they could have, and were probably trained, to fly that shuttle until it slowed enough. They are highly trained pilots landing that. I doubt they self destructed the shuttle.
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
JetService
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:13 pm

If they self-destructed the Shuttle, don't you think they would've explained their intentions to mission control?

Just accept the accident and be sad about it.
"Shaddap you!"
 
L-188
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:18 pm

Let me see if I understand what you are saying.

The shuttle was self destructed because the astronauts wanted to save Disneyworld???

Sorry just can't buy that.

There is some speculation that the shuttle hit a sprite in the Atmosphere. That is an electrical discharge. And oddly enough one is known to have taken out a research balloon a few years ago.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
737doctor
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:19 pm

This is your brain: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

This is your brain on drugs: The Space Shuttle Columbia self-destructed by the astronauts because the shuttle did not have a chance to make it onto the runway. They did not want anymore destruction or casualties on the ground. And also, they wanted to protect Orlando esp. Disneyland.

It was traveling at 21,000 mph @ 207,000 feet at a steep angle so they figured they will overshoot the runway. So again, the astronauts self-destructed Columbia. They probably wanted to do the right thing. Not cause more deaths on the ground.


Any questions?
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
Guest

RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:26 pm

L-188 wrote:

"There is some speculation that the shuttle hit a sprite in the Atmosphere."

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but to my (admittedly limited) knowledge, sprites form above active thunderstorms; California and the Southwest, however, were enjoying perfect weather that day. And anyway, do they think a sprite could have caused wing damage which seems very probable at this time?

BTW, isn't it a bit too early for wild speculation like this?

[Edited 2003-02-09 05:27:29]
 
b757300
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:28 pm

I'll suggest deletion as well but before the thread goes away, I'll say this.

The shuttle itself does NOT have a self-destruct device onboard. On lift off, the SRB's and main fuel tank DO have explosives designed to destroy the vehicle if it goes outside a predetermined zone. The controllers @ Cape Canaveral are the ones who would send the order for auto-destruct, not the crew. The plan, at least on paper, is for the shuttle to have already separated from the rockets and land back in Florida or @ the emergency landing zones throughout the Atlantic and in Spain. However, NASA has said that if necessary, they would destroy the shuttle, crew and all, if the liftoff went off course and was going to come down in a populated area. However, I do not believe that the shuttle was destroyed by anything other than a tragic accident. It was not a UFO, not a terrorist, and not some non-existent self-destruct device.

I feel that while the astronauts knew they had a problem, they probably did not know how serious it was until the very end. Not being able to visually see parts of the shuttle breaking off meant all they could rely on were their instrument readings, which didn't tell them much. They probably realized just seconds before the end as the auto pilot lost its fight to keep the shuttle flying that the shuttle was out of control. Breakup and death would have been only seconds later and thank God, very quick and painless.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
mirrodie
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:29 pm

NOTE TO USERS THINKING OF posting HERE:

The poster has a right to express his opinion (no matter how drug induced it may be, as someone alluded to above).

Please think before you post and try not to break the rules.

If you DISAGREE (as I do), then do it politely.

peace, mirrodie

PS -to those suggesting deletion: On that grounds?

[Edited 2003-02-09 05:30:27]
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
JetService
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:34 pm

"The poster has a right to express his opinion"

Who said he didn't? Don't mistaken criticism for a feeling that one doesn't have a right to say something absurd. Geeeez, I hate that.

Wardialer is just very saddened and in denial about the tragedy; that's all.
"Shaddap you!"
 
AC320
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:38 pm

Must be pretty darn sad to have his higher brain functions shut down and allow that illogical portion to run wild and free sewing destruction everywhere.
fuddle duddle
 
gotAirbus
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 2:01 pm

Okay, Wardialer ... a few facts:

It was traveling at 21,000 mph @ 207,000 feet at a steep angle so they figured they will overshoot the runway.

I've been doing some reading lately and have found out that the pilot (and the on-board computers) actually calculate whether they can make it to the runway at KSC. If not, there are alternate runways already pre-planned.

21,000 mph or Mach 18 @ 207,000ft is pretty normal. I don't see anything wrong with these kinds of speeds for a shuttle, do you?

Also, the shuttle can slow down just in time for arrival...it still has 207,000 feet to descend, and you know that too.



They probably realized just seconds before the end as the auto pilot lost its fight to keep the shuttle flying that the shuttle was out of control. Breakup and death would have been only seconds later and thank God, very quick and painless.

Gosh, wonder what specific emergency indicator flashed on-screen before the whole thing blew up.

(gotAirbus?)
(gotAIRBUS?) - (Got Commonality?) - (Have A Nice Flight!)
 
vafi88
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 2:04 pm

BTW-NASA Has a self deployed Astronaut program, that if the shuttle over runs the runway, they can jump at ONLY at less than 250 knots.


Marijuana's bad dude....Don't smoke it.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
mirrodie
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 2:12 pm

Don't mistaken criticism for a feeling that one doesn't have a right to say something absurd.

Jetservice, no mistake made. But since I already had to delete other posts here and have had a few requests for delete already, perhaps you can understand my concern.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
TWAL1011
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 2:15 pm

I decided to copy and paste this whole thing before it gets deleted. It could serve many purposes in the future.
 
L-188
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 2:16 pm

There is also a theory that the shuttle may have impacted a piece of space junk.

http://www.adn.com/24hour/special_reports/columbia/story/753457p-5450389c.html

This is somewhat supported by the video taken by an amature astronomer in Sparks, Nevada.

http://www.projo.com/sharedcontent/breakingnews/spaceshuttle/khou030207_mh_astronomervideo.303c39ec.html


Well here is a link to some information by the University of Alaska, Fairbanks regarding Sprites and Jets.

http://elf.gi.alaska.edu/

I was looking for the site where I saw that story. It was a newpaper out of San Fransisco but I have to go launch a medevac flight. Sorry.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
wardialer
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 2:26 pm

Well I still think the crew wanted to do the right thing by saving people on the ground. The shuttle has a self-destruct button in-case of emergency situations at that altitude or speeds. They wanted to save famous landmarks like Disneyland and populated areas. No offense but I think that might of happened.

 
TWAL1011
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 2:27 pm

It kills me that I had to download and install Real player to view that, but I found it to be pretty interesting. Backs up what that astronomer in CA witnessed. Kinda lends credibility to an explosion or impact, doesn't it?
 
Soku39
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 3:07 pm

Wardialer, do you think that if they were hot and high that would have flown OVER disney world and orlando into the atlantic. Especially if they knew they were over running it before?
sheesh a little bit of a thought process could help people like you out.  Yeah sure

The Ohio Player
 
L-188
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 3:31 pm

Sorry about the sudden drop off there guys, I had to go and save lives.

Anyway. Here is a link to a story USA today did about the possiblities of Upper atmoshere. It is more general then the one I saw and lists several phenomenon that NASA will probably look at.

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030207/4848025s.htm

I will still look for that other story I saw. That specifically mentioned Sprites being the cause of a High Altitude balloon being destroyed.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 3:34 pm

FOUND IT!!!

It originally was published in the San Francisco chronicle on Friday. Maybe some of our Bay area participants can go and comment to the general accuracy of the paper.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/02/07/MN200326.DTL


Oddly enough didn't realize that weather balloon that was taken out by a sprite was launched from Palestine, Texas.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 3:47 pm

L-188,

Thanks for the link! Yes, the sprite theory does sound far-fetched (hence my sceptical initial reaction), but, then again, there is a lot we don't know about the upper atmosphere. I also didn't realize that there was thunderstorm activity near the Bay Area that day.
 
b757300
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 3:57 pm

GotAirbus, did I ever say that a warning light flashed saying they were about to die? What I said was there was most likely very little time between the shuttle going out of control and the breakup. Before that time, there was no way to know for sure that the shuttle was in serious trouble. The small amount of time between loss of control and breakup would have been all they had to know for certain they weren't going to make it.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
cfalk
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 4:03 pm

Wardailer, They do not have self-destruct charges on the orbiter. It would be too much of an invitation for Murphy's law.

Secondly, The orbiter was well within the flightpath perscribed for reentry, and was not going at 21,000 mph, but more like 12,000 mph, also within perameters.

Lastly, you make the assumption that the pilots "gave up", over 1000 miles from touchdown with 200,000 feet below them. I don't know if you are familar with the Cockpit Voice Recordings and Transcripts that you can get on other sites from aircraft that have crashed, but one thing is consistant with all pilots - they continue to fight to regain control and save their lives right down to the ground. You occasionally hear something like "this is it.", but the Data recorders show that even if the pilot knows that he is going to die, control inputs continue to be made.

I simply don't see pilots giving up until they hit the ground.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
ScooterTrash
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 5:01 pm

Giving the original poster the benefit of the doubt, I asked an engineer buddy of man at United Space Alliance (the folks who outfit the shuttles now) if such a scenario is possible. To his knowledge, there is no crew accessible destruct device in the orbiter. The SRB's do have such devices, to be used by the Range Safety Officer in the event the shuttle veers drastically off course during launch.

I am sure that the last though through that commanders head was to save his crew and craft, if he was afforded the opportunity to develop any awareness of his situation at all.
 
ben88
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Sun Feb 09, 2003 6:21 pm

Hey everyone he's playing a joke on you. Does anyone here listen to Phil Hendrie? One of his "characters" recently called in proclaiming to be an intern at JPL. He said the shuttle crew self destructed to save lvies because they were going to land short.....He said he had high placed sources that validated his claims...
 
wardialer
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 2:01 am

GOTCH YAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA. The last post was true. I just wanted to imitate the caller on Phil Hendrie. I could not resist!!!! So please foregive me. I fooled you people.  Smile  Smile
 
dripstick
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 2:15 am

...yeah...let's create a joke out of a tragic event.

Get a life!

What's another word for thesaurus?
 
tbar220
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:09 am

*scratching head*

Boy Wardialer....that was, interesting to say the least.  Yeah sure
NO URLS in signature
 
fspilot747
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:29 am

"GOTCH YAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA. The last post was true. I just wanted to imitate the caller on Phil Hendrie. I could not resist!!!! So please foregive me. I fooled you people."

You weren't serious? Well...I thought you were a nutcase when I opened this thread and read your initial post. After reading the above, I stand by my initial impression.


FSP
 
ExitRow
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:09 am

I think the Space Shuttle was about to hit a previously unknown, high-altitude flying species of elephant and in their corrective measures, the crew lost the orbiter. Kind of like when you swerve to avoid hitting a dog on the road.

I have no proof, empirical evidence, data to support my claim or even so much as a thread of common sense to my idea. I just like to hear myself talk and get people riled up. On some groups, I'd be called a troll. But not on A.net! Woohoo!

(And if you DARE criticise me... the mods will delete YOUR post.)
 
4holer
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:43 am

Is "schmuck" an acceptable word on A.net?
I'm not calling anyone anything here, just asking...
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
muddydawg
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:03 am

I am stationed at Lajes which is a alternate landing site approx 2200 miles from Florida. If they wanted to save Disneyland they could have always landed here.

Jokes like that just aren't funny. My $.02 and only my $.02. If somebody wants to make something like that up they should consider some research.
 
AC320
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:06 am

Research? If someone wants to make something like that up they should consider psychological therapy.
fuddle duddle
 
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sebolino
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 7:28 am

I know exactly why the Shuttle exploded: it was going a little too fast ...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy









 
gotAirbus
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:06 pm

B757300

Posted Sun Feb 9 2003 07:57:12 UTC+1 and read 255 times:
GotAirbus, did I ever say that a warning light flashed saying they were about to die?


My apologies if that sentence sounded vague -- especially when that sentence looked as if I was questioning you...

But seriously, I had wondered what flashed on-screen. NVM, Houston was the first one to see a malfunction in the landing gear indicators (that pretty much answered my question.)



Wardialer...

 Yeah sure

(gotAirbus?)

(gotAIRBUS?) - (Got Commonality?) - (Have A Nice Flight!)
 
737doctor
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:38 pm

GOTCH YAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA. The last post was true. I just wanted to imitate the caller on Phil Hendrie. I could not resist!!!! So please foregive me. I fooled you people.

ow...my side hurts from all the laughing  Insane
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:37 pm

Not very funny making a joke out of something like this  Insane. The descent from orbit is fully automatic anyway and the commander only takes over manual control the last 5 mins of flight or so. Even if the shuttle was too high/too fast the computer would have fixed that problem by initiating more S-Turns which are designed to bleed off altitude and airspeed so even if it was too high(which it wasn't) this wouldn't have been a serious problem at all- the S-turns are designed to fix that!
 
Guest

RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 7:43 pm

Sebolino

If you had been watching Fox News you would know they were travelling faster than the sound of light!!!!




ADG
 
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sebolino
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:38 pm

If you had been watching Fox News you would know they were travelling faster than the sound of light

 Big thumbs up
 
BartiniMan
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:47 pm

The original poster must be a bored 9 year old kid  Smile
 
L-188
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:57 pm

That is a photo from CNN guys. Not Fox news.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:06 am

The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one.

If the astronauts knew they were going to overshoot the runway, they would have ditched in the Atlantic.

If they knew they were going to undershoot the runway, they would have ditched in the Gulf of Mexico.

I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Guest

RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:03 am

L-188,

If you are referring to my post, I didn't infer your picture was from Fox .. I was laughing at the stupidity of the statement made by fox ..

"faster than the sound of light" ....




ADG  Laugh out loud
 
L-188
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RE: My Point Of View About Columbia Shuttle

Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:46 am

You know. I read that and missed it completely. Big grin
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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