USAirways737
Topic Author
Posts: 986
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:20 am

School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:57 am

My school's wonderful superintendant decided that since the US Department of State has issued a travel warning against Germany from February 7-9th, and the possibility of war on the otherside of the eqautor, that our exchange trip to Germany in June-July shall be cancelled for good.

She doesn't seem to care that in 2002 the chances of an American according to Conde' Nast of being killed by a terrorist was one in 9 MILLION. She seems to care more about keeping the $5,000 she promised to give us for our trip. She won't even consider a waiver for us to sign releasing the school of any liability.

My mom tells me I don't get it. I think I do. Too many people have been brainwashed by Foxnews and MSNBC to realize that they have been saying the exact same terrorism/war BS for the past year. Why is everyone in America freaking out so horribly over a 1in9million chance of being killed?

And oh yeah, last year when the Germans came, they decided that even though they were safer in their own country from terrorism, that the U.S., even after 911 was safe enough to visit; but some how Germany is too dangerous for us to visit?

Please tell me I'm not nuts.

Erik in MSP
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:05 pm

You're 100% right. The media and this nazi-like administration has suceeded in its propaganda war of scaring the whole country into submission....
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:45 pm

I’m with you. Germany? No problem. Now if y’all were heading to Syria or Tunisia, I’d sign that waiver.

Nothing against Syria or Tunisia, those are two states I’d love to visit some day. Something tells me running around Damascus or Tunis with a US Passport just isn’t the best thing to do these days.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:49 pm

"You're 100% right. The media and this nazi-like administration has suceeded in its propaganda war of scaring the whole country into submission.... "

Such a mature statement...basically self inflicting too as the US media is huge left wing...*sighs*
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:08 pm

You're 100% right. The media and this nazi-like administration has suceeded in its propaganda war of scaring the whole country into submission....

That's rather Orwellian of you. Are you saying that we all have no brains and just go about like sheep responding to CNN and political broadcasts?

Some people are. After all, there are over 3 billion people in the world who are dumber than average.

Erik seems to have figured this out, and has chosen his side (the one where people think about the information). His school superintendent has similarly made clear which half he is in. As have you.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
KLM-MD11
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 8:09 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:10 pm

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!

I live in the Netherlands, one of Germany's neighbours...

AM I IN DANGER TOO?????

come on guys, stop being so f******g paranoid.

Get a life!

If i were you, (and American) i'd sue the school and the american government for brainwashing half the american population...
GELUK IS GELUL MET EEN K
 
Paulianer
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:15 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:26 pm

Hi,

well, germany is still a save place for all visitors. And I think especialy for US citizens... USA and Germany are good and closest friends since decades. And the fact that the governments has different opionions about Iraq war doesn't mean that the friendship is over, isn't it?

Well you're welcome to germany. It's a beautiful and save country (OK, I have to say that  Wink/being sarcastic )

I have a question for the other way around. I'll flying to Portland on March 31, so do you think it' dangerous for me as german citizen to travel to the United States...

Greetings
Tobi
Hamburg/Germany
Tobias Rose - Hamburg (HAM/EDDH) & (XFW/EDHI) - Canon EOS D60 - ICQ: 235621277 - MSN: Tobias.Rose@gmx.de
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:58 pm

That is a shame.

Germany is a pretty nice place.

The school is supposed protect its students. Unfortunatly sometimes they have the habit of doing it with the efficency of a sledgehammer.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:41 pm

but if one of those kids were to die imagine the screeching and sueing that would occur



ADG
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
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RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:47 pm

Hmm. We got Australian kids this year (yeah I know France is a ways of from Bali  Laugh out loud ) , and we got a girl from Washington (DC) here, and soon were getting a fresh shipment of kids from San Diego. Big grin

You school sounds a little whacked ou dude..

-CLovis
 
GC
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:03 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:50 pm

Tell your teacher she's a dipstick. I'm flying to Philadelphia and Denver from the UK in April, so as long as I don't get shot down by a SAM fired from the M25, I should make it.  Smile

This isn't anything new, when the IRA was bombing London, Americans stayed away......mmmmm. Doesn't the USA have the most violent armed crime rate in the western world. You're safer in Europe.

Anyway, what's going to happen to the spirit of adventure if we teach our kids to wet our pants and hide under the bed everytime there's an international crisis.
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:17 pm

Such a mature statement...basically self inflicting too as the US media is huge left wing...*sighs*

They report on what they have to go on...

damned republicans...
 
HOMER71
Posts: 2128
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:56 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:35 pm

Ok, I might sound like a contradiction in terms, but here goes:

It DOES sound like that teacher is using the tense situation as an excuse to save some money and that's shameful. Of course, the US is home of the lawsuits and the teacher probably wanted to the old CYA on this and not take any chances. Too bad, because I would love the opportunity to visit Germany on a field trip.

The administration is NOT saying these things for us to panic and be paranoid...the media is pretty much doing the job for them.
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:47 pm

"My school's wonderful superintendant decided that since the US Department of State has issued a travel warning against Germany from February 7-9th, and the possibility of war on the otherside of the eqautor, that our exchange trip to Germany in June-July shall be cancelled for good."

The travel warning was only for the inner city of Munich, as there were 2 big peace rallies there during the security conference. The US were btw the only country to issue such a warning. Oh, and the 2 rallies were completly peaceful, not one window broke.

And to be honest, I think the possibility of falling down a ladder is much bigger than getting injured in a terrorist attack.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:23 pm

US airways737,

First of all, I feel sorry for you and your fellow students that your trip to Germany has been cancelled. But the changes to be shot down somewhere on a petrol station or at some supermarket in the US are probaply significantly higher than being killed in a terrorist attack in Europe. Poor land of the free...
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
fritzi
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 2:34 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:29 am

Well, I´m flying to Munich tonight (on a lear 45!!) and I´m staying there till saturday, so this may be my last post in my life! Farewell!!!!!!!

 Wink/being sarcastic  Big thumbs up
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:48 am

I'm flying to Germany tomorrow for a much anticipated vacation. I'm sorry you're going to miss your trip, USAirways737. I'll hoist a Mass of beer to you in the Augustiner Bierkeller. -Mark
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:55 am

USAirways737,

I am sorry to hear that your trip to Germany has been cancelled!


LHMark,

if you like beer you must visit the Airbräu at Munich airport, it is located at the entrance, they serve also very tasty Bavarian food.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
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RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:32 am

shot down somewhere on a petrol station or at some supermarket in the US are probaply significantly higher than being killed in a terrorist attack in Europe

I highly doubt that. It is a fact that random crime occurs at a far higher rate in Europe then in the United States. Gang related crime, however, is much more important in the USA, which explaines higher stats...

-Clovis
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:38 am

Sabena332, I'll remember that. Thanks for the tip!
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
GRZ-AIR
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 3:02 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:46 am


Well...the panic spread to this side of the ocean also. Im from austria and our long planned exchange with a US highschool in kentucky was cancelled because some parents were afraid that we would be "shot" down by some misguided missiles while we cross the pond. Crazy huh? Well..i have been in the states 14 times so I dont care but for the others its sad..

regards
patrick
When I joined A.net it was still free, haha ;).
 
nonrevman
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:33 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:57 am

Sorry to hear about those of you who had dream vacations cancelled due to paranoia. The only fix to that is to take the trip independantly and not have the decision to go in the hands of someone else. Germany was my first foreign country and I cannot for the life of me imagine why there is a travel warning issued against that country. If everyone cancelled trips due to travel warnings or fear of what would happen, it would result in an unimaginable economic disaster to the transportation sector and all businesses that thrive on it. I would also be out of a job  Sad

 
traveler
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 10:09 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:03 am

Hello Erik,

I do not understand why your school is reacting this way. I am a teacher in a high school in Montreal and next week, we are going to Rome Italy with 32 kids aged between 14-16 years old. I am organizing this trip and my school has not stopped me from going with my students.

Germany, Italy, Czech Republik, Hungary (the places we are going) are safe places to go.... I hope you will have a chance to go on your exchange.

Ich habe auch Deutsch gelerned. Ich mag Deutschland

Take care Traveler



 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:46 am

KLAX,

Could you provide us with a reliable source to back up your FACTS?
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
fritzi
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 2:34 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:58 am

KLAX,

What have you been smoking lately???



It is a fact that random crime occurs at a far higher rate in Europe then in the United States

As Manni said, please enlighten us with evidence for you accusations.

 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:11 am

KLAX,

It also depends on what you consider crime. Ok maybe there are more random burgluries in some european country. However when it comes to murders, the USA has a ridiculously high number compared to europe. over 11,000 gun homicides per year in the USA... damn thats a lot.
 
USAirways737
Topic Author
Posts: 986
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:20 am

Update!

Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:27 am

Well I just got back from our meeting with our acting principal and district superintendant. It was the most depressing and insensitive thing my peers, parents, and I have ever been to. Basically our superintendant came off as "I have the control, there's nothing you can do about it". She said that the world is too dangerous. She also is planning on cancelling all school trips to NYC, Portland OR, Quebec Canada and San Francisco. She says the airports, despite the hundreds or millions of dollars spent on security are dangerous yet had to leave the meeting early to PICK UP HER KID FROM MSP INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT!!!!! I said to her in front everyone "I hope she gets there!" She also said that the school would be held liable for anything that happened to us. When I brought up the fact of Liability waivers, she said no. I finally got her to explain and she said it was illegal because of State of MN law. I am going to check into that.

Basically all twenty of us kids and forty parents thinks she's a dumb b*tch, and if she cancells NYC, Portland, and San Fran, there will hundreds of us thinking she is a dumb B*tch. We will not stop fighting, and plan to go to the school board.

a very dissapointed Erik in MSP
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "

Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:58 am

Manni: Could you provide us with a reliable source to back up your FACTS?
Fritzi: As Manni said, please enlighten us with evidence for you accusations.

Here you go, boys. These are the rates of selected random crimes (US vs UK)....
(rates are crimes per 100,000)
Murder
US-6 UK-2
Assault
US-382 UK-460
Theft
US-4498 UK-6236
Aggrevated Theft
US-1105 UK-2073
Breaking & Entering
US-920 UK-1952
Auto Theft
US-506 UK-783
Other Thefts
US-2887 UK-3380
ANY CRIME
US-4922 US-8576

WWWWOOOOOWWWW, Fritzi & Manni!!!!!
Ain't that a kick in the groin? Another myth shot in the ass.
This will suck, too; these stats came from Interpol. Big grin
"Shaddap you!"
 
USAirways737
Topic Author
Posts: 986
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:20 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:38 pm

Please don't turn this into an "America vs. Europe" flame thread. This kind of mis-guided thinking may have well caused my exchange trip's cancellation.

If any of you would like to help us go to Germany, we would appreciate an email to my Superintendant and School Board. Tell them how stupid their decision is from a non-American perspective. Anything can help us right now.

cecconim@stillwater.k12.mn.us,

hlavacek@stillwater.k12.mn.us,

uppgren@stillwater.k12.mn.us,

junkerd@stillwater.k12.mn.us,

tollefsrudc@stillwater.k12.mn.us,

buchmanr@stillwater.k12.mn.us,

tholeg@stillwater.k12.mn.us

macyk@stillwater.k12.mn.us <----Superintendant aka Big B*tch

Thankyou everyone for your support. It has really been tough on all of us to find out something you have been looking forward to since your started the language has been cancelled.

Erik in MSP
 
nonrevman
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 6:33 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:04 pm

USAirways737,

You all absolutely need to go to the school board and voice your concerns. Superintendants tend to listen to the school board. In my state, the board consist of elected officials. I will bet that this is the same case in Minnesota.

My wife and went to Belgium last week. Yep, it was dangerous. Those chocolate shops are particularly deadly because it can cause most of us to gain a couple of pounds  Big grin Well, time to get back to the elliptical machine.

I remember wanting to go to Germany during a high school trip. My family could not afford it, but I only had to wait 6 years to make it a reality. Keep up the good fight and set a little money aside. A lot of those airfares are getting very low these days.
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:31 pm

USAirways737...

Sorry to hear that...a similar thing happened to me, I was a participant in my school's British exchange, the Brits were supposed to come over in April 2002 but did not for reasons that included 9/11/01...fortunately we were able to go over to England in October 2002 but it just wasnt the same being one-sided..

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:10 pm

Jetservice,

That's great, anyone could come up and put some numbers on this board. That's not what I call a reliable source. Please try again. Nevertheless I'm particularly interested in the Murder crime rate. That's about 300% higher in the US (or in you language, changes that someone shoots you in the ass are 3 times bigger in the US  Laugh out loud). Changes that someone steals you're wallet is 25% higher in the UK. Yep, the US is definitely a safer place than the UK.

....You can kill me, but dont take my wallet....  Laugh out loud
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
v jet
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 9:04 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:10 pm

Possibility of war on the other side of the equator. You dont study geography do you?  Laugh out loud
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:33 pm

Well, in the last year in Acton, West London I have;

- Been victim of an attempted mugging (Pikey Irish b*stard was after my Breitling watch but I smashed his face in)

- Witnessed a serious assault and then had to protect a female witness from being killed (she was a witness to a serious offence committed by this guy and was going to testify in court. He was let out on day release and tried to scare her into not testifying. Her boyfriend suffered serious injuries (the attacker was a 6 foot seven inch nutcase) and it took me and four Arab guys to hold the guy down for the police - I got a police certificate for that!

- Stopped a rape from occuring on Acton High Street

- Been attacked with a group of friends by a drunken South African with a bottle - again he was beaten sh*tless for his sins

- Had a firework fired into my house


So unless the US is very bad, certainly London is more dangerous.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
fritzi
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 2:34 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:59 am

JetService,

You didn´t answer the question.

KLAX said that the crime rate in Europe was far higher than the crime rate in the US. You just answered the question for UK vs US.

Repeat after me:
THE UK IS NOT ALL OF EUROPE!

If you compare the crime rate between the US and Austria, you´ll see that there is a hell of a difference.
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:59 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sat Feb 15, 2003 3:06 am

I said RANDOM CRIME in Europe occurs much more often then in the United States. Besides, I think living by statistics is stupid. You can get shot or assaulted ANYWHERE. It can happen to anyone at anytime. I lived in some of the most sensitive and crime ridden parts of Los Angeles for 15 years and never once faced any such situation. I have lived in Toulouse for the past 2 years and have had my bike stolen, my watch stolen, and have been confronted by two older guys once while walking in the street who subsequently stole all my money. So before saying that "statistically" you are more likley to get assaulted or murdered in the USA, look at what happens in real life...

-Clovis
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:25 am

It is a fact that random crime occurs at a far higher rate in Europe then in the United States. Gang related crime, however, is much more important in the USA, which explaines higher stats...

Klax, it is NOT a fact that random crime occurs at a far higher rate in Europe that in the United States, and I challenge you to produce any statistic to assert this claim. The invention of practical claims to prove one's point does not equate to fact.
 
N312RC
Posts: 2586
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:58 am

I didnt read all the replies but this has happened to me too..


Our school's marching band was supposed to travel to EDI and CDG in April. This trip, however, was cancelled due to "uncertain times". However, our band director did a great job and set us up with an alternate trip. Instead of Edinburgh Castle and Britannia, I'll be seeing Honolulu instead! The school is allowing us to go to Hawaii... It all worked out.
N/A
 
American_4275
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 1999 1:11 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:21 am

My school is also talking about cancelling the our chorale's trip to CHINA in April because of the pending war. This pisses me off. I knew something as amazing as going to China with friends would never happen...somehow I always get screwed outta this stuff...?
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:59 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:37 am

Klax, it is NOT a fact that random crime occurs at a far higher rate in Europe that in the United States, and I challenge you to produce any statistic to assert this claim.

Hepkat, you're right, I drop my previous claim. However, read my post above for more "explanaition"...

-Clovis
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3723
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sat Feb 15, 2003 8:11 am

V_Jet,

You caught that 'equator' remark as well. I am surprised that no one else picked up on it.

I just wish the 'sheepeople' would not be taken in by the paranoia that the media outlets in this country are spewing and would use some good ol fashion common sense when it comes to the tense time in which we live.

If I were heading abroad (and I have visited some 45 nations over the last 20 or so years) during these tense times, depending on which corner of the globe I was visiting I would still feel safe. That said however I would be a little more sensitive of my surroundings and have my guard up a little more. Let's face it, there are areas of the world that are much more dangerous for the average American traveler to visit and at this point in history, the Persian Gulf, Indonesia, Mindanao (Philippines), the Near East, Colombia. But Europe, nah, aside from a young European that might grill you on the US's foreign policy (I know this from pleantly of experience while working and traveling in Europe in the 80s and 90s), I would still consider Europe safe. Joe, (Flying Texan) mentioned Syria, actually I would probably feel much safer in Syria than Tunisia and I have been to both and they are both delightful nations, but that was then and this is now.


Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "

Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:24 pm

Manni:

"That's great, anyone could come up and put some numbers on this board."
Indeed, that's why I gave you the source, ya maroon.

"That's not what I call a reliable source."
Not reliable? So you'd have rather I gave you FBI data? Rrrrright!  Yeah sure

"Please try again."
How about you try just once. I gave you facts and you don't like them. Tough titties.

"Nevertheless I'm particularly interested in the Murder crime rate. That's about 300% higher in the US (or in you language, changes that someone shoots you in the ass are 3 times bigger in the US  ). Changes that someone steals you're wallet is 25% higher in the UK."
So now you want to change the issue at hand to murder instead of random crime? Oh, and I see now you LIKE the numbers I gave you. ROFL!!! So predictable.  Laugh out loud

"Yep, the US is definitely a safer place than the UK."
Now you're gettin' it!  Big thumbs up LOLOL!!!!!!!!

Fritzi:
"You didn´t answer the question."
So far, I'm the only one that provided any data. You don't like the results? Tough titties to you too.

"KLAX said that the crime rate in Europe was far higher than the crime rate in the US. You just answered the question for UK vs US."
Well, that's one more question I answered than you. Care to provide some reliable numbers of your own for us?

"THE UK IS NOT ALL OF EUROPE!"
Oh OK, there's one fact you provided. At least you are one up on Manni now. LMAO!!!!!  Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud

"If you compare the crime rate between the US and Austria, you´ll see that there is a hell of a difference."
Since you know that, why didn't you just post the data for all of us to share.

Hepkat:
"Klax, it is NOT a fact that random crime occurs at a far higher rate in Europe that in the United States, and I challenge you to produce any statistic to assert this claim."
Since you know that, why didn't you just post the data for all of us to share.

"The invention of practical claims to prove one's point does not equate to fact."
Gee, all you guys seem to think it does.  Insane
"Shaddap you!"
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "

Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:59 pm

OK, since you guys are being awfully quiet, I'll do your work for you. The following is some of the larger European countries with their crime rate (victims per 100,000)

Finland - 14,027
Sweden - 13,521
Denmark - 10,068
Norway - 9,770
U.K. - 8,576
Belgium - 8,072
Germany - 8,031
Netherlands - 7,820
Austria - 5,975
France - 5,972
Luxembourg - 5,822
Switzerland - 5,450
Hungary - 5,056
United States - 4,922
Italy - 4,272
Ireland - 2,582
Spain - 2,344

By the way, Manni, I hate to disappoint you (even more), but the United States is NOT the murder capitol in this group. Sweden and the Netherlands led in murder rate with both being over 10 per 100,000.

Source: Interpol International Crime Statistics

So boys....any further comments in light of this disappointing outcome?
"Shaddap you!"
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:59 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sat Feb 15, 2003 9:37 pm

OMG Jetservice!!!!  Big thumbs up I wanted to look at those stats but I dont have Adobe Acrobat Reader!!! You DA MAN!!!!!!  Big thumbs up

Source: Interpol International Crime Statistics

Read it and weep boys, there's the source AND stats. And we win too :P
But, inspite of that, I still say that stats are retarded, just read my last post. It can happen to you anywhere. But in Europe people love to tell themselves that the USA is an evil dangerous country with skyrocketing crime...

-Clovis


 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "

Sat Feb 15, 2003 11:56 pm

Er, sorry, but JetService did not really provide compareable numbers, although the tendencies seem to be correct.
The number for Finland inludes traffic offences, too while the number which represents the USA does not. (otherwise it would be: Finland, year 2000: 8,697)
And then you compared fact sheets issued in 1997 with those from 2000, which is a no-go as well.

NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
JetService
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "

Sun Feb 16, 2003 1:58 am

NoUFO, I used 97 because that is the year all of those countries had data for. I'm sorry you don't like the results of the info, but I suspect the crime trends wouldn't defer much in three years (2000). It is valid for the sake of answering the request for 'proof' but Fritzi, Manni and Hepkat. However, I did make a mistake with Finland, and I apologize. You are correct the number I supplied included traffic violations. Finland had two total numbers and I just selected the bottom number. Their total victims per 100,000 is 7,667 for that year. My apologies for that. I went through all others listed and Finland was the only one that supplied the 'extra' total. So here is the revised list...

Sweden - 13,521
Denmark - 10,068
Norway - 9,770
U.K. - 8,576
Belgium - 8,072
Germany - 8,031
Netherlands - 7,820
Finland - 7,667
Austria - 5,975
France - 5,972
Luxembourg - 5,822
Switzerland - 5,450
Hungary - 5,056
United States - 4,922
Italy - 4,272
Ireland - 2,582
Spain - 2,344

"Shaddap you!"
 
KLAX
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:59 am

RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sun Feb 16, 2003 2:07 am

Jetservice, why dont you do a side-by-side with 97' US figures to make them happy? And maybe include some other stats, like Murder, assault, etc...

-Clovis  Smile
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
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RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "

Sun Feb 16, 2003 7:13 am

KLAX, the US is 1997 as well as all th countries' numbers. I used it for the sake of a parallel comparison of all contries. I would've itemized the rest like UK and US, but it was just too much work LOL. The subject at hand was 'being a victim of random crime', so I figured this data did exactly what was requested. US did rank high in murder rate (third) and I did mention that above out of fairness, but it was only 2 or 3 higher than most others. Nevertheless, I think these numbers shattered a lot of folks stereotype of the US, no?
"Shaddap you!"
 
CVG777
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RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "War..."

Sun Feb 16, 2003 3:01 pm

My high school choir trip to Atlanta just got cancelled for the same reason. The county school board thinks it is unsafe for us to travel anywhere except in the state of Florida, which is where I live, and they cancelled all out of state trips, which affects at least three groups. My trip has been planned for six months, and costs $800 per person for a five day tour. Now we had to cancel that, but we are all out $415 due to deposits already put down on airfare, hotels, attraction tickets, and busses. We had planned to bus to FLL, fly Delta to ATL, spend four days in Atlanta and North Georgia, and then return.

My trip was one month away, but now we are scrambling to organize something in state so we can at least go somewhere. We have one month to get something together. No matter what we will still end up paying the $800, but instead of Atlanta, we are going to probably bus from Key West to Tampa for a few days. Yes... $800 for a four day tour of Tampa, no airfare. It is ridiculous that this should happen so close to our trip date, but our school board is afraid of being sued, which is understandable, but apparently they have never heard of something called a waiver. I could understand if they prohibited planning future out of state trips until this has passed, but to just cancel everything that has already been PLANNED AND PAID FOR shows complete and utter lack of respect to the parents and students who have worked so hard and diligently to plan and organize this. What irks me even more is that this is my senior year, and this will be the last choir trip I take. I was actually really looking forward to the Atlanta trip and all of the events and places we had planned. Now that is all down the drain.

I do realize that the world we live in is changing, and I must say that the decision to temporarily suspend planning out of state trips may be in the best interest of students. However, the decision to just up and cancel even those trips which had already been planned and paid for is uncalled for. Hundreds of students have been affected, and they and the school's organizations have lost thousands and thousands of dollars.

Other groups at my school that were affected include our cheerleaders who each paid over $1000 for a trip to New York City, and from what I understand, they organized their own trip and wont be seeing much of that money coming back. Our video productions class also got screwed out of a trip to Las Vegas for a convention.

Well, there is my venting on this subject. Needless to say I am not to thrilled with this sudden decision, and I am still bitter over the whole situation.

CVG777
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
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RE: School Trip To Germany Cancelled Due To "

Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:00 am

Jetservice: Admittedly, I'm surprised the U.S. crime rate is significantly lower and I would never have guessed to find Sweden and Denmark on top of the list. Last time I was in Scandinavia, I noticed that some people don't even lock their front doors.

Stereotypes? Maybe - but mostly concerning Italy which I always considered an Eldorado for pickpockets (perhaps many people just don't report offences to the police?). I apologize if you considered my somewhat hasty written last post a reply from someone who simply can't stand the actual numbers.

That said, I feel really sorry for those who can't travel "due to war".

NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears

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