Guest

Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:56 am

Retired U.S. Army Gen. Wesley Clark, NATO's former supreme commander, who may seek the Democratic nomination for the presidency, blamed the Bush administration for not respecting our allies.


From a Reuters article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030216/pl_nm/politics_clark_dc_2):

Clark, 58, said Bush had failed to respect the reservations of key allies like France, Germany and Russia that are calling for the United States not to rush into war with Iraq over alleged weapons of mass destruction but allow United Nations inspectors more time to do their work.

"As long as the United States stands with Europe we can move the world," he said.

He also said he would have worked much more with NATO and the United Nations against al Qaeda, the group accused of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on America, and treated the threat from North Korea's nuclear weapons program as a higher priority.



From an AP article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030216/ap_wo_en_po/na_pol_us_clark_democrats_1):

"We're at a turning point in American history here. We are about to embark on an operation that's going to put us in a colonial position in the Middle East following Britain, following the Ottomans," Clark said. "It's a huge change for the American people and for what this country stands for."

Clark said he is concerned with how the administration has handled longtime allies, like those in Europe.

"This is an administration which really hasn't respected our allies," he said.

Clark said one thing he learned in the Kosovo campaign is "if you really want allies, you've got to listen to their opinions, you've got to take them seriously, you've got to work with their issues."



What do you think?
 
Thumper
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:06 am

Who may seek the Democratic nomination for the presidency, blamed the Bush administration for not respecting our allies.

NUFF SAID!
 
JetService
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect All

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:18 am

If I'm not mistaken, most of our Allies are with the USA on this. Everyone talks about France, Germany and Belgium, but what about the other 12 out of the 15 that are supporting the US at the moment?
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:41 am

JetService wrote:

"If I'm not mistaken, most of our Allies are with the USA on this. Everyone talks about France, Germany and Belgium, but what about the other 12 out of the 15 that are supporting the US at the moment?"


But there's another way of looking at that... Like it or not, France and Germany are major European powers; they have far larger populations, as well as more wealth and influence, than the majority of European countries. In political terms, they are the equivalents of Texas and California in this country -- only more so.

IMHO, Bush cannot claim that Europe supports him as long as he does not have those two countries with him on this issue. And so far he only has one of the big three European powers -- the UK -- officially supporting the war.

[Edited 2003-02-17 03:45:18]
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:46 am

General Clark has been making more and more news lately, and you may be looking at the next Democratic nominee for President in this guy. He's got more military credentials than any other Democrat, and more than Bush will ever have. He's eloquent, he makes some sense, and his message may resonate with a lot more voters than you would imagine. What his message would be about domestic matters remains to be seen, but it the economy stays sour, and gas prices are still soaring by summer-NBC News was citing sources tonight that say prices could hit $3 a gallon by summer-he may find himself in the forefront of the nomination battle.

Remember his name-I think you're just beginning to hear from this guy.
 
dahawaiian
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:00 pm

He is absolutely right, epitomized by Rumsfeld's "Old Europe" remark in reference to France and Germany. These kinds of remarks will not help the US gain friends in the world, and that is exactly what Wesley Clark is pointing out. Just because some of our allies disagree with us on this particular issue isn't grounds for this kind of silly name-calling. The term "think before you speak" comes to mind.
You don't see Colin Powell displaying this kind of unprofessionalism. Like Clark, Powell knows that Rumsfledesque rhetoric is counterproductive. For a second-term defense secretary, it doesn't seem as if he has learned much.
I'd vote for Clark over Bush any day because he actually knows something about foreign relations, unlike Bush who relies on his "expert" staff. Things would go a lot smoother if our administration could keep their mouths shut sometimes.
 
b757300
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:10 pm

Considering the fact he is yet another Klintoon hack and is thinking of running for President, talking trash is fully expected. He dishonors every man and woman who wears the uniform.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
Guest

RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:23 pm

B757300 wrote:

"He dishonors every man and woman who wears the uniform."


How on Earth does he do that? Just by politely disagreeing with the Bush administration and yourself? In other words, a person shouldn't have opinions of one's own -- just blind obedience to Bush -- if he doesn't want to "dishonor every man and woman who wears the uniform"? This is absolutely ridiculous, B757300, and you know it.

[Edited 2003-02-17 04:33:07]
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect All

Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:34 pm

The Bush Administration (except for Colin Powell) are certainly not in lack of arrogance. They only respect those who agree with them and villify all others. That said, I still think they are taking the right approach in preparing for war against Iraq.

We'll see how this all plays out. If Saddam is deposed peacefully, before an invasion begins, Bush will smell like a bed of roses and the Dems may as well not even bother running in the next election. If Bush starts a war and screws up, the Republicans may as well abdicate for the next 50 years. The stakes are incredibly high.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
jaysit
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:29 pm

B757300 wrote:

"He dishonors every man and woman who wears the uniform."

And our great Leader honors those men and women by:

a. Being a drunken AWOL daddys boy during his National Guard stint while thousands of Americans were being killed in Vietnam; and
b. Staking the lives of tens of thousands of American men and women in uniform because he wants to get even with Saddam for "almost killing his daddy."

B757300, what the hell do you know about the uniform anyways? Ever wore one? Or even attempted to? Or even thought about it? Or is your posturing based entirely on sitting on your barcalounger as you orgasm every time Bush comes on TV wearing a phony fatigue jacket? Wesley Clark knows more about the military and NATO than you and Bush combined a million times over.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:30 pm

I'd like to learn more about this guy Clark, sounds like he's got his act together. We could use a pres. That's got some common sense.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:33 pm

Considering the fact he is yet another Klintoon hack and is thinking of running for President, talking trash is fully expected. He dishonors every man and woman who wears the uniform.

B757300, you dishoner anyone who says they're an American. You're so friggin' out there that ANYONE who doesn't see the fucking world exactly as you do is a left-wing, "Klintoon" (what an assinine statement) nut. You're the one who is less of an American than any of us.

Last time I checked, Mr. Right, Clark was in the uniform long before Bill Clinton was President of The United States. So I don't see where there is any dishonor. What utter bullshit.

To call a career military man, who has served his country honorably, was the Supreme Commander of NATO someon who "dishonors ever many and woman who wears the uniform", is the sheerest form of lunacy, coming from a right-wing nut who can't see beyond his own petty hatreds. Disagreeing with Bush, or the Sent-from-God Republicans (sarcasm intended) doesn't make one dishonorable. You're are the quintisential "ugly American" come to life.
 
dc863
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect All

Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:54 pm

I don't trust Clark one bit. He and Madaleine Halfwit had a personal vendetta against the Serbs.
 
cba
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:01 pm

Bush Sr. ran an extremely successful war in Iraq towards the end of his term, but he still managed to lose the election. A success in Iraq won't gaurantee Dubya a win in '04, especially if the economy still sucks, and the war on terror still is raging.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:21 pm

Bush doesn't have a prayer, why even bother to discuss him as a candidate?
Dear moderators: No.
 
GDB
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:59 pm

So Clark should have let the Serbs carry on slaughtering those pesky Muslins (and many others too) Dc863?
Clark had a big falling out with the UK commander in Kosovo, but they handled it with the minimum of fuss and made up.
Funny how a real military man can stir up the Republican loony fringe, they seem to prefer the 'virtual warriors' in the Bush regime.
Cheney was another who managed not to get drafted for Vietnam, "I had other priorities" he reportedly said.
Funny how the right wing attack dogs forget little things like this.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:10 pm

He dishonors every man and woman who wears the uniform.

Ah but when he did wear it, you'd get down and kiss his ass , because a good right wingbot respects the military, doesn't he? It's only when someone wearing the uniform actually opens up their capacity to form an opinion that may actually disagree with yours that they become scum.

I don't doubt, -300, you have a big American flag sticker on your car. Kindly put a big asterisk next to it that qualifies only that small part of America you feel is worthy enough to maintain their own opinion.
 
galaxy5
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:47 pm

Heavymetal
From United States, joined Jul 2001, 3601 posts, RR: 67
Reply: 16
Posted Mon Feb 17 2003 15:10:34 UTC+1 and read 13 times:

Ah but when he did wear it, you'd get down and kiss his ass , because a good right wingbot respects the military, doesn't he? It's only when someone wearing the uniform actually opens up their capacity to form an opinion that may actually disagree with yours that they become scum.

I don't doubt, -300, you have a big American flag sticker on your car. Kindly put a big asterisk next to it that qualifies only that small part of America you feel is worthy enough to maintain their own opinion.


What a hypocrite you are Heavy, you only agree with clark because he slams bush and is trying to run for a president as a Democrat, had his views been conservative you would have called him a Bush robot. People are only open-minded and think for themselves if they agree with YOUR views and only your views.

Just like most of you libs think, there should only be one train of thought and if you’re not on it, the conductor will run you over. You guys always talk about being open-minded but you’re so unreceptive to other points of view that don’t reflect yours.


"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
GDB
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:53 pm

At least they can articulate a different view, rather than doing Eric Cartman impressions.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 12:02 am

What a hypocrite you are Heavy, you only agree with clark because he slams bush and is trying to run for a president as a Democrat.

Galaxy5, Clark has not even declared which party he would seek the nomination from, if he runs. He has said he can't imagine running as a Republican because of the policies of the current administration. And Heavymetal didn't slam Bush at all-he was slamming B757300 for his assinine comments that, simply because Clark served under Clinton, he somehow dishonored the uniform he wears, which is a crock of crap.

Bush robot. People are only open-minded and think for themselves if they agree with YOUR views and only your views.

I think you need to speak to B757300, not Heavymetal about that one, Galaxy5. Conservatives, by definition, are closed-minded people, since conservatives don't like change. So you have it backwards, I believe.

Just like most of you libs think, there should only be one train of thought and if you’re not on it.

You confuse "liberal" with "reactionary", Galaxy5. Despite the hard work of the GOP and mouthpieces like Limbaugh and the Republican News Network to make the two synonymous, the are not. Reactionaries, whether they be on the left or right, are closed-minded, as we see from the ultra-left, and the ultra-right. But most main-stream liberals and most main-stream conservatives-those not given to ideological hysterics-are open to ideas from other sides. It's the lunatic fringes that are not, and B757300 definitely is in that lunatic fringe.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 12:16 am

Galaxy...

My issue wasn't with Wesley Clark's opinion. My issue was with a poster flaming off about how someone "dishonors the uniform" by actually having the nerve to possess a non-"On Board And Behind George Bush" opinion.

I certainly don't have to tell you that by wearing the uniform, you are tasked to do with what the Commander In Chief's orders are, regardless of what you think of them. That is at the noble heart of serving your country. But at the heart of a country worth serving is the freedom to form and voice an opinion very much to the counter of that Commander in Chief's orders. Wesley Clark..now out of uniform and no longer obligated to do the job he spent a career doing well...taking and carrying out orders...has earned the right to take advantage of that freedom. 757300 used his right to voice an opinion about how Clark's excercise of that freedom 'dishonored' those who protect it.

And I used my right to call B.S. on that opinion. It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative.
 
Guest

RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 12:40 am

To a certain extent, I agree. On the other hand, I believe France & Germany have been unreasonable in their delaying and blocking tactics. I can partially excuse Germany, in that their belief that war will be damaging and unnecessarily costly, is more or less genuine.

However, the same cannot be said for France, in my opinion. Although I respect the French people's decision against a war in Iraq, I believe the French government actually realises weapons inspections have been, and are, useless; that Saddam is a brutal dictator who will continue to kill his own people indiscriminately; and that Iraq will almost certainly pose a serious threat in the near future. And whatever anyone says, the fact that there are very large quantities of oil lying beneath the ground in Iraq is partly, although not the principle, reason for the US to safeguard the region.

The French government believes war is now necessary, and has done for a quite a while now. But the war will only start at a time of their choosing, as far as they are concerned. They do not like the fact that America wields so much power and influence (that goes for a long list of other countries too) - it bothers them. What bothers them too, is that they still can't get over the fact that they lost the monopoly on power 100 years ago...that hurts, and to make themselves feel better, they kick up a huge fuss at NATO, EU and UN levels.

Normally I wouldn't mind, but I believe the French government has stepped a bit too far on some occasions, and its present stance is not a reasonable one, given it knows aggression is now the only solution (whatever it may say publicly)....

I just hope, for the Iraqi people's sake, that the US and Europe put a little more effort into rebuilding Iraq than they have in Afghanistan - which remains as anarchic as ever (may that soon change...)
 
ryanb741
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 1:42 am

I am with Capt Picard on this one. I am pro war on Iraq because I believe Saddam is a menace who needs to be removed, but I can see that Germany has given compelling reasons for no military action to take place (I disagree with their 'no war under any circumstances' stance however). The French on the other hand are just being a pain in the ass for the sake of it, just like they constantly are within the EU. The thing is, France will eventually stick it up Germany's ass and join the war against Saddam, leaving the Germans very isolated and France having no friends either in the 'old' or the 'new' Europes! Unfortunately whilst everyone else has worked out that the US are for the time being the top dogs, the French find this hard to come to terms with (just look at their stance on their colonies for example). It's a shame really, because France is an amazing country and, hell, I even did a University degree in the French language, but they suck when it comes to politics.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
777236ER
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 1:46 am

lol @ GDB
Your bone's got a little machine
 
cba
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:13 am

So it's ok for Germany to disagree with the US, but France is labelled as an enemy and a traitor when they disagree?! And people say that they are not anti-French. The double standard here is just obsurd.

And before you go shooting off your mouths about France not helping at all militarily, check the news and you'd see that France recently sent their nuclear-powered aircraft carrier to the Persian Gulf. I wonder why...
 
Guest

RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:28 am

"see that France recently sent their nuclear-powered aircraft carrier to the Persian Gulf. I wonder why"...

Good point, should have added that to my post.
 
ryanb741
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:55 am

Cba and Capt.Picard - that is exactly the point I am trying to make. The French WILL participate in the war, sticking it up to the Germans in the process. It is all posturing of a spoilt brat who is no longer 'Mummy's favourite'. The Germans are the ones who will be most likely screwed by all of this, and yet they had the most compelling anti-war argument of all!
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 3:07 am

You have to remember German constitution does not allow a pre-emptive strike.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
dc863
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect All

Tue Feb 18, 2003 3:24 am

GDB as a Serbian American I'd never give Wesley Chump Clark the time of day let alone my vote. And no I'm not a Rep, or Dem., I'm Libertarian.
 
FDXmech
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:00 am

I feel Wesley Clark is just playing politics. Well, that makes sense as he might run for office and so this is par for the course.

But when Bush ran for office, he abhorred nation building and was seen as an international lightweight.

And when Clinton ran in '92, he condemned Bush's cozy China party, reminding the electorate of the Tianaman Square (sp.) massacre.

And when Nixon ran, he was a rabid anti communist.

Isn't history ironic?

The lesson being is that aspiring politicians can say anything they want, whether they sincerely believe their own rhetoric or not. But being a nominee is quite a bit different than actually holding office.

The officeholder on the other hand is fully accountable to the nation based on the reality of the world as it is.

The reality of Bush Jr is 9/11 and keeping the country safe. He might make unpopular decisions to some, but in the end he is the man accountable. Not peace protesters or reticent allies or polling data.

When Clinton came into office, he also coziedup to China. The reality of his job told him it is better to have China with us rather than against us, just as Nixon, the coldest of the cold war warriors normalized relations with China.

Nice post Capt. Picard.



You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Klaus
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FDXmech

Tue Feb 18, 2003 10:43 am

FDXmech: But when Bush ran for office, he abhorred nation building and was seen as an international lightweight.

As opposed to... what?

Nation building both in the Balkans and in Afghanistan is mainly done by Europe; And that he is in fact an international lightweight couldn´t have been clearer than in this crisis where he actually succeeded in squandering all the political capital from 9-11. Difficult to do, but they actually managed to "achieve" it.

Latest international Bush faux pas: GWB´s brother Jeb, on his visit to Spain, just declared Spain a republic. King Juan Carlos - who actually helped introduce and later saved spanish democracy from an attempted coup - might not be thrilled.

Not GWB himself, but it illustrates the lacking depth of their background.

If there´s something the USA might need badly, right now, I´d say it´s a president who knows what he´s doing, for a change.

From the above statements, Wesley Clark might just be a candidate...
(Strange that it´s the generals who seem to be more intelligent than their leaders, these days. Pity.)
 
FDXmech
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:27 am

>>>Nation building both in the Balkans and in Afghanistan is mainly done by Europe; And that he is in fact an international lightweight couldn´t have been clearer than in this crisis where he actually succeeded in squandering all the political capital from 9-11. Difficult to do, but they actually managed to "achieve" it.<<<

Well Bush the lightweight resumed the disarmament of Iraq which in 1998 seemed an impossibility.
In your opinion, squandering political capital appears to me as Bush not following your agenda. Perhaps political capital to you means the U.S. being a pathetic poor victim. That isn't the American way, generally speaking, when we get knocked down, we get up and fight like hell.
You say nation building is done by Europe, well thank you, I mean that sincerely.

>>>Latest international Bush faux pas: GWB´s brother Jeb, on his visit to Spain, just declared Spain a republic. King Juan Carlos - who actually helped introduce and later saved spanish democracy from an attempted coup - might not be thrilled.<<<

Has any other world leaders experienced a faux pas? Your lack of objectivity amazes me. And as you say, it wasn't even G.W. Bush who made the mistake, are you seething that much to make a point out of a non-point?

>>>If there´s something the USA might need badly, right now, I´d say it´s a president who knows what he´s doing, for a change.<<<

That seems to be a code phrase for needing a president who conforms to your ideas. I like the job Bush is doing, he's actually being a leader.

>>>From the above statements, Wesley Clark might just be a candidate...
(Strange that it´s the generals who seem to be more intelligent than their leaders, these days. Pity.)
<<<

Well, Mr Clark can run for president and may the best man win. I imagine this thought occurs in some countries just prior to a coup, we prefer elections every four years. If you feel that strongly, perhaps you can obtain a U.S. citizenship and cast a ballot. Smile
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Klaus
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FDXmech

Tue Feb 18, 2003 12:45 pm

FDXmech: Well Bush the lightweight resumed the disarmament of Iraq which in 1998 seemed an impossibility.

The term "international lightweight" identifies a lack of understanding about one´s standing in the international context.

In this case, the Bush administration - and that´s definitely not just GWB himself - has demonstrated a lack of insight and a lack of skill that would be breathtaking even for a country as small as - excuse me - Luxembourg.


FDXmech: In your opinion, squandering political capital appears to me as Bush not following your agenda. Perhaps political capital to you means the U.S. being a pathetic poor victim. That isn't the American way, generally speaking, when we get knocked down, we get up and fight like hell.

That´s exactly the point. "Political capital" does not mean being stronger than everybody else and therefore being able to bully everyone into submission (or not, as it turned out).

"Political capital" means the willingness of your international partners to carry heavier burdens than usual to help and protect you - in this case, the USA.

This willingness and the sympathy from which it came helped bringing the coalition against terror together in record time and even with some allies who might have been more reluctant otherwise. The sympathy for the american people has largely survived, actually, but the Bush administration´s chances to convert it into a concrete political advantage have largely vanished.

The massive alienation campaign conducted through the past months and basically throughout the Bush presidency - with only a few exceptions - has helped flush this political capital down the sink. Right now, Bush not only doesn´t have willing allies, but has more or less forced the creation of a strong and worldwide opposition to his policy. As an aside also resurrecting the whole list of past grievances that had been put to sleep after 9-11.

A little more insight into the individual positions, interests and sensitivities of others would have made a huge difference, here. Simply filing everything under either "good" or "evil" just isn´t good enough when you´re dabbling in international politics.

The complete surprise when his latest tactic blew up in his face does not really speak of competence, I´d say.


FDXmech: You say nation building is done by Europe, well thank you, I mean that sincerely.

You´re welcome. Still, it´s not good to be known exclusively for bombing cities and countries to ruins and being somewhere else when it´s about rebuilding them again. The populations somehow don´t seem to appreciate that.


FDXmech: Has any other world leaders experienced a faux pas?

The Bush family seems unusually prone to them. Aggravating their tendency to just ignore other´s sensitivities even further (although Bush senior wasn´t that bad).


Klaus: If there´s something the USA might need badly, right now, I´d say it´s a president who knows what he´s doing, for a change.

FDXmech: That seems to be a code phrase for needing a president who conforms to your ideas.

Up to a point, that´s natural. Beyond mere subjective agreement, the "blundering frequency" is an indication of what´s going on.

FDXmech: I like the job Bush is doing, he's actually being a leader.

No doubt about it. The question is, where he´s leading you. And the slope doesn´t seem to go up, for some reason, especially not where he´s actually making a difference.


FDXmech: Well, Mr Clark can run for president and may the best man win. I imagine this thought occurs in some countries just prior to a coup, we prefer elections every four years.

No, you don´t want to go there, do you?  Wink/being sarcastic
 
FDXmech
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:21 pm

Klaus, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Smile
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
cwapilot
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:34 pm

Ummmmm.....I've seen Wesley Clark speak three times, most recently at my sister's graduation. It was clear that his graduation speech was the beginnings of some political ambitions, and certainly a milk-toast response to the sentiment after 9/11 (this was the May following the attacks)...and this was before I did the research into his background as a Clinton lackee. He's in the "understand and sympathize with the Arabs" camp, read:9/11 was the US getting what it deserved. This was echoed in the University President's speech that followed.

Despite the astute political insight of "We're Nuts", the DNC is shitting its pants over this next election cycle, and I say, bring him (Clark) on! If Clark is the best they have to field, and they are already testing the waters with someone from outside of their regular stable of candidates, I would say all of the conventional political wisdom among DNC and RNC strategists is correct. The Dems stand for nothing, are in disarray, and can benefit from nothing except hoping the current President (still at a 61-69% approval rating despite his recent "thrashing" in the polls) fails. That is to say, the only way the Dems can win is for tings to go badly for the American public...they have to WANT things, and by their tactics CAUSE things to stall and/or go badly. It is sooooo tempting for Daschle to blockade the Senate, and he is trying to do that, and avoid being labled an obstrutionist. Consider it his Democratic Jihad, or suicide mission. The far left is taking over the party, and they are being pulled further and further away from the center that Clinton so successfully brought them to. Not a very good position to be in.

Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
heavymetal
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 8:09 pm

The far left is taking over the party,

As a direct response to the equal and opposite action of the far right being in COMPLETE control of the GOP, and, right now, the country.....and demanding that what constitutes the American 'center' be pulled rightward as well.

I wouldn't be so chuckly about a GOP shoo-in in the next election cycle, either. One terror event or one military black eye in Iraq, and Hopalong Bush has lost the ONLY playing card he has left. In all the late night comedy bits and morning radio parodies, the populace let him know last week what it thought of these convenient 'terror alerts' whenever he suffered political setbacks or headlines work against him, as in the case with world reaction to his Iraqi plans. Fear is quietly not working anymore. The jobs are being lost at breakneck speed in all those midwestern 'Reagan Democrat' states that often times decide Presidential elections. As it is, easy Iraqi victory or not, I don't see a fast turnaround anytime soon. Dubya could easily be sent packing just like his old man was....voted out by those who find him to be an aloof aristocrat hired by the right and the rich to force their agenda on the rest of us.

I will entirely agree that the Democratic Party is a fractious mess right now (although you contradict yourself...you pine they 'don't stand for anything' and then chide their leftward drift. The reason they come across as not standing for anything, is because since 9/11 they were the very loyal opposition to President Bush. And he and his party paid them back by a vicious scorched - earth smearing in last year's election. It will be a long time indeed before I can respect a party that openly and loudly questioned Georgia Senator Max Cleland's patriotism for cheap election gain. Now he sits defeated in election, in the wheelchair that has carried him since Vietnam.)
 
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keesje
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RE: Wesley Clark: Bush Admin. Does Not Respect Allies

Tue Feb 18, 2003 9:53 pm

At least this guy knows how to build bridges to solve things, instead of escalating them.

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway

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